Hey guys,

I am having some real issues with inner game, confidence, and approaching. I know and understand the right beliefs - not being afraid of women, there's no harm in approaching, you won't know until you find out, i'm the prize, etc. - but I am having a hard time internalizing them and having them stick. I find that the minute I step into the club, my confidence declines and my AA increases. I tell myself I am the prize, but half way through an approach I start losing that mentality. What are some things you did to ensure your good beliefs and frames stuck to you? Did you practice anything, have any affirmations, etc? I'm committed to get this down, because it is decreasing the number of my approaches and the quality of my approaches. Please help.

When was the last time you approached a woman you didn't know?

What did she do? What did she say? How did you feel?

Once you really break the process down, it is not that bad. I remember when I was living in London. The women there are much harsher than Canadian women and I've heard stuff like "Move from me, you're ugly..etc" right in the face with no qualms.

A lot of feistiness was rampant in London (from ALL RACES including Anglicised Asians and South Asians also!) and it may have gotten worse, I don't know but in comparison, the overt Canadian behaviour is a gentle breeze.

Now I was working in a store that was equivalent to Shoppers Drug Mart. This fine woman would often come in and I would internalise miserably over doing something, saying something, rather than just over-rationalising.

I thought to myself, fcuk it, and when she came over to my till to purchase something, I took her money, processed her purchase, handed her the change and said "Can I also get your number?"

She said "No, thanks"

That was actually a relief to me whether she was down or not because the worst part was internalising over it. As Roosh said, doing something is better than nothing even if you say some stupid shit.

The worst that ever happened to Roosh was getting punched in the eye. I've never been punched *knocks on wood* but I've been told no, flaked on, etc.

Think of the process as psychology. Understanding social psychology. And your preferential group are a lot easier going, Shans.

My target group can be some of the most intimidating group at times. They are known to ridicule a bredda.

The fear is ALWAYS worse than the actual occurrence. Having a woman say No, FCUK OFF! is never as bad as imagining it.

We let our imaginations run away with us.

Just do it. Approach, approach, approach. Who cares if your voice is squeaking and you tremble? Say something, make a noise, fart, burp, get her attention.

I met some women on that same night (yes you know the night) and I got their numbers. I called one of them up a few weeks later when I returned from Cali. I left a voicemail. She called back a day later and said "Hi, I am surprised you remembered my name and even called".

That to me, shows that she is interested. I internalised over it and got a bit nervous thinking about calling her back.

However, I did call her back a few days ago and we have a date set up on Saturday.

Moma is right, you just have to force yourself to do it. Your first couple of approaches might blow (mine usually do) but once you get in the zone you'll get comfortable and girls will notice. Alcohol helps too, just don't use it as a crutch... my drunk game is pretty solid but it's not true game in my opinion.

@ Moma: Hey man, I went out last night. It's been a while since I gamed, day or night, because for the past month and a half I've been hanging with the girl I met in my TKD class (incidentally, that day I was pretty much in state, so everything felt like a breeze to pick her up). Anyways, last night was a private korean party, which made pick up an extra challenge because koreans are pretty exclusive. Did about 8 approaches total, 6 on the dance floor, 2 in the smoking area. 0 for 8 man. On the dance floor, I noticed my approaches were too timid and i wasn't making eye contact, even though I KNOW I SHOULD MAKE EYE CONTACT! That's what's frustrating: my unconscious behaviors go on autopilot, disregarding my conscious rules. The 2 smoking area approaches with my buddy were pretty harsh - they literally just walked away from us after we said hi.

My drunk game is off the chain too but I am forcing myself to do sober game because drunk game is a coward's game. I could game anything on this planet when I'm drunk, I just don't give a fcuk!
And I'm a controlled drunk, not a pawing maniac.

Shan, that night, I approached and I usually move based on interest or eye contact. I had none that night but tried a few (i.e. dancing) I got shut down like a bar in Toronto at 2.21am.

However, the worse thing you can do is not do. There will be different stages of actualisation. None of it is pretty. It's similar to coming off drugs (crack, skag etc)

You will get the shakes (fear)
You will start muttering to yourself (I'm not good looking enough, I'm too much of a dweeb, blah blah)
Palpitating heart beat

This is your body trying to hold on to the poison..the poison of doing nothing.

Realise that most of us in here have gone through that same point but what you MUST do is CONTINUE to approach.

As Roosh said, only approach women you want to FCUK! Forget that friends bullshyt, most of the women are fcuking!! Don't buy that shy girl bullshyt!

I missed out on a Somalian flag because I bought that, I went for the kiss and the hip grope instead of trying to take off her jeans..and that was my only chance..she went off to fcuk some other cat and gave me that let's just be friends bollocks.

Shan, the women want to fcuk you! The ones that say no to you ARE FCUKED IN THE HEAD! Do you respect the actions and/or opinions of a mad person?

Think about it!

Quote: (03-18-2011 08:33 AM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

Hey guys,

I am having some real issues with inner game, confidence, and approaching. I know and understand the right beliefs - not being afraid of women, there's no harm in approaching, you won't know until you find out, i'm the prize, etc. - but I am having a hard time internalizing them and having them stick. I find that the minute I step into the club, my confidence declines and my AA increases. I tell myself I am the prize, but half way through an approach I start losing that mentality. What are some things you did to ensure your good beliefs and frames stuck to you? Did you practice anything, have any affirmations, etc? I'm committed to get this down, because it is decreasing the number of my approaches and the quality of my approaches. Please help.

Whenever I start to find chinks in my internal-game armor, I go back to the minor leagues to tighten it back up. That means sparring with fatties, older babes, and other low-hanging fruit. That takes off the edge, re-centers my head, makes me realize that they're all just naked chicks under all of the accoutrement, and helps me practice some approaches, postures, or whatever.

See:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-3520-p...l#pid40830

"What are some things you did to ensure your good beliefs and frames stuck to you? Did you practice anything, have any affirmations, etc?"

I'm by no means expert but... affirmations (thoughts) are good but if you don't back them up with actions you won't believe them. You have to ACT (=approach). Just do it. Anyway, I'm giving myself this advice just as much as I'm giving it to you. My 2 cents.

Quote: (03-18-2011 07:24 PM)solo Wrote:  

"What are some things you did to ensure your good beliefs and frames stuck to you? Did you practice anything, have any affirmations, etc?"

I'm by no means expert but... affirmations (thoughts) are good but if you don't back them up with actions you won't believe them. You have to ACT (=approach). Just do it. Anyway, I'm giving myself this advice just as much as I'm giving it to you. My 2 cents.

Mostly agree with what you said. This is an article that I just came across that talks about action being more important than affirmations (there's actually NO evidence that affirmations work).

http://vladdolezal.com/blog/2009/forget-...s-the-key/

I am lucky to be pretty good looking and always have had girls showing me interest. Once I got into my 30s though I was finding if I still wanted younger women I had to start working for it.

I was lucky enough to have a roommate/fuckbuddy when I started learning to game. I would go out in the street and try to chat up girls, and regardless of whether I scored or struck out, the night was going to end with me busting a nut on some girl.

Having a sure thing waiting for me took all the pressure off. I could be cool and funny and just have a good time, and if it happened it happened. The girls picked up on my relaxed attitude and I found it was pretty easy to close the deal. After she was gone I tightened up again and my game went south, but once I got into another open relationship I got back in the groove.

That is my tip, find a fuckbuddy or a girl who is cool with an open relationship and just roll with it. Eventually your internal game will stick and you won't need a crutch.

rejection is better than regret

Quote: (03-18-2011 08:33 AM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

Hey guys,

I am having some real issues with inner game, confidence, and approaching. I know and understand the right beliefs - not being afraid of women, there's no harm in approaching, you won't know until you find out, i'm the prize, etc. - but I am having a hard time internalizing them and having them stick. I find that the minute I step into the club, my confidence declines and my AA increases. I tell myself I am the prize, but half way through an approach I start losing that mentality. What are some things you did to ensure your good beliefs and frames stuck to you? Did you practice anything, have any affirmations, etc? I'm committed to get this down, because it is decreasing the number of my approaches and the quality of my approaches. Please help.

Are you still going out in the day and approaching girls during the daytime. I know what you are talking about. The only thing to do is to plough through. My mind will sometimes experience a high when I finally achieve state and I don't give a fuck... and then later it will experience a real low when your emotions feel like crap. I think its your minds way of trying to hold on to your old self. If you keep pushing those boundaries then your mind will accept the new you. I guess the only thing to do is keep approaching and studying your inner game. There is no other way.
Try some day game to switch it up.

Quote: (03-18-2011 09:48 AM)Moma Wrote:  

My drunk game is off the chain too but I am forcing myself to do sober game because drunk game is a coward's game. I could game anything on this planet when I'm drunk, I just don't give a fcuk!
And I'm a controlled drunk, not a pawing maniac.

Tell me about it! Lately my drinking has been out of control, blame it on St. Patty's amongst other things... Anyway, my problem when drinking has been remembering the damn girls' names, I've got numbers and have no clue who they belong to, USELESS! Plus mixing up parts of my normal game, including my usual "Just text me your name so I have your number" bit, which assures I have the right name.

Worse yet, I had a cute girl the other night, she opened me with a "I like your hat" (it was a crazy St. Pat's gimmick) and I replied, "and I like your face." Her friend tried to pull her away after that crazy line, but she was intrigued and stuck around. We talked for a few minutes, and I told her I'd catch up with her (this much I remember) but then all the girls started to look alike and I couldn't remember her or her name! A little alcohol may help loosen you up, and I think no alcohol makes you look weird, but abuse that stuff and you're only hurting yourself.

Quote: (03-19-2011 08:35 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

rejection is better than regret

I like that. I also like Roosh's "What's the worst that can happen?" When going into an approach.

"I think its your minds way of trying to hold on to your old self. If you keep pushing those boundaries then your mind will accept the new you. I guess the only thing to do is keep approaching and studying your inner game. There is no other way."


Beautiful piece of advice.

I´m going through harsh times right now. Been out 4 nights in a row and nothing, even though something like 2 months ago I was hooking up with a girl every night. Now I feel empty handed and desperate/needy, which results, obviously, in bad game.

There are two main differences in my game nowadays compared to two months ago:

-Quit drunk game. I realised that drinking was just a way to avoid getting in touch with my fears, and spent a while just backing down from game to get my shit together, and now I do it sober. I feel that after the first rejections, my morale, inspiration and stamina go downhill, making me just want to crawl back home, a difficult feeling to avoid. Feels like shiiiiit...

-My standards have gone up (!). I´ve been working solidly on my game for the past 7 months (I was in a long-term relationship before that. Been 2 years completely without working on my game, which was already quite poor). I was only dating/hooking up with 5s-6s tops, doing a couple of "mudturtles". In the last month, through social-circle game, I was able to hook up with some high caliber girls (7-8), and the new challenge was to keep it up. Meanwhile, my club game went downhill, dramatically so, and I feel that to avoid needy behaviour with these high-caliber girls, I have to keep hooking up with other quality girls, otherwise I will become clingy and start losing them (its already happening). -By the way, I´m still not banging these hotter girls, just dating/dealing with their BS.

It´s being a tough transition. It just feels somewhat more comforting to see other guys who went/ are going through similar processes...

I think the only way is to keep pushing it, keep going out, approach as much as possible before you break down and think of the long-term gains.

Also, the hardest: try to have fun, relax and laugh at the whole thing. Girls can sense a guy's inner conflict. Even my wingman have been telling me this, advising me to chill and have fun.

learning to laugh at the whole situation goes a long way...

Quote: (04-24-2011 03:24 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

-By the way, I´m still not banging these hotter girls, just dating/dealing with their BS.

I am curious. How are you able to date a woman without having sex with her? If I am not able to bang a woman by the third date (or if I really like her, at least get to stick some fingers in) then I lose interest.

By and large, if a woman in North America won't give up the goods by the third date, she is usually not interested in you.

Obviously, there are exceptions.

Does anyone have any tips for working out internal problems that arise do to environmental issues?

I have a lot of approach anxiety as well (which is stupid because I know I'm a good conversationalist) but my issue is a lot of the local venues I find myself at are small, loud, and danceless.

I feel like the small size will put any approach failure out in the open and its not so much that I care about bombing with the girl I want to approach, its that I fee like failing with her would fuck up my chances to successfully approach others.

The other issue I have is that if a bar doesn't have live music there's no one there, but they all play rock/indie/cover stuff, and for the most part no one dances, but its still crazy loud, to the point where even yelling into someones ear isn't enough to have them hear you. I start to figure that an approach made isn't going to work because of that and then my brain goes back to the venue size and what it would look like if I bombed in the middle of everything.

Quote:Quote:

rejection is better than regret

This.

Quote: (04-24-2011 08:43 AM)Moma Wrote:  

Quote: (04-24-2011 03:24 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

-By the way, I´m still not banging these hotter girls, just dating/dealing with their BS.

I am curious. How are you able to date a woman without having sex with her? If I am not able to bang a woman by the third date (or if I really like her, at least get to stick some fingers in) then I lose interest.

By and large, if a woman in North America won't give up the goods by the third date, she is usually not interested in you.

Obviously, there are exceptions.

These girls, as I mentioned, I met through my social network, not cold approach. They are friends or friends of friends, and I do see them during my regular daytime activities. So we do chat up, I´ve already made out with them on ocasion, but actually going further than that is turning out to be a sticking point. They flake when I try to set a date, yet when we meet during our daily routines (one is from work, the other from university, both 7-8 range) they are affectionate and seem interested. Or is it? I´m learning how to work on a new caliber of girls, and its being very frustrating...

ps: I´m not from America, I´m from Rio, Brazil (go figure...)

Quote: (03-18-2011 09:48 AM)Moma Wrote:  

You will get the shakes (fear)
You will start muttering to yourself (I'm not good looking enough, I'm too much of a dweeb, blah blah)
Palpitating heart beat

This is your body trying to hold on to the poison..the poison of doing nothing.

This post worked as a kind of inspiration when I did my first day game (cold) approach for probably 5 years or something, a couple of days ago. So thank you Moma. I experienced symptoms like the ones you mentioned, man what a trip! Loved it!
At the end of the day though, one has to find the will to approach within one self. It's fine reading forums like this all day but it's not going to get you laid, only you can do it.

The body (and mind) trying to hold on...there is actually a psycological term for this: it's called resistance. Think about it: why do you hear so many overweight people suffering from their condition yet continue to eat the wrong diet and refraining from exercise? Resistance. (If you add today's society and culture plus genetic predisposition, there really is no wonder so many people are overweight).
Part of the reason for resistance is that your current situation, however painful, still implies some benefits. Let's face it, it can be quite comfortable to refrain from approaching girls or going for a jog or to the gym, even though doing precisely those thing would help you achieve what you want.

Samseau: "rejection is better than regret". This is so true. It doesn't bother me one iota that the girl I approached had a boyfriend (I then said I'll just ask you again in a month then - to which she replied I think I'll still have a boyfriend then). At least I don't have to think about what could have happened if I had approached her, like the countless of other chicks I have passed up on.

Stop "approaching" girls! Its a weak frame.

"Approaching" them is giving them the chance to accept you or deny you. Fuck that! That gives them all the power. Just talk to them, talk to them the way you want to, about whatever you want to. Who cares if she likes it or not. Don't ask for permission and don't apologize. She should be thankful that you are even talking to her.

Quote: (04-30-2011 12:49 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Stop "approaching" girls! Its a weak frame.

"Approaching" them is giving them the chance to accept you or deny you. Fuck that! That gives them all the power. Just talk to them, talk to them the way you want to, about whatever you want to. Who cares if she likes it or not. Don't ask for permission and don't apologize. She should be thankful that you are even talking to her.

Good stuff, this is something I had to realize a couple weeks into my enlightenment.

Redbull!
No alcohol, just energy drinks, works for me. I tend to entertain and tell stories (with my accent it works wonders in the USA), so my main obstacle is boredom. Pumped up with taurine I go into set with more enthusiasm, seriously having fun (but never being intrusive).

Simplistic answer, I know, but it works for me: raise your energy level until you got to approach someone as it feels natural.

Warning: dont drink too many as that stuff is unhealthy!

Quote: (03-18-2011 07:58 PM)emh Wrote:  

Mostly agree with what you said. This is an article that I just came across that talks about action being more important than affirmations (there's actually NO evidence that affirmations work).

There's been some great points made on here about the importance of action and while that is very important, most of the advice can be boiled down to "Just Do It." And that's important. However, I don't think that really answers your original question "How do I internalize these beliefs?" because most people have no idea how to actually change beliefs or internalize new ones. Most people don't even know it's possible to consciously choose to do so.

Fortunately, there is a clear system developed by Psychologists based in the (real) field of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) which works powerfully, and- respectfully, despite what emh asserts- is scientifically tested and proven to be effective in numerous published research studies. CBT is one of the most effective and commonly used therapies in the treatments of depression, obsessive-compulsive disorders, etc. This is real.

And it is not, just "affirmations" which many people believe to be wishy-washy positive thinking, but rather tools, a system, and an understanding of how our automatic feeelings, thoughts and beliefs are changed. I can personally attest to how powerful this can be, not only in changing your thoughts, but the underlying beliefs, your feelings, and most importantly your actions! It is incredibly liberating to know that at any time I have the power to change my negative thoughts and beliefs about women and Game, and have done consistently for several years now. I went from having massive Social Anxiety (I couldn't even open) to now having these type of beliefs:

• I am attractive to women
• Women never reject me
• I open every woman I'm attracted to
• Women find me sexy as hell
• Women love me!
• I'm interesting, and interesting to talk to
• What I'm saying has value because I'm the one saying it
• What I'm saying is interesting because I find it interesting
• I am dating beautiful women on a regular basis
• I have an abundant sex life
• I'm having sex with new women every month
  

You can imagine what internalizing this has done for my success with women. And I believe these things because they are true! Really, this is just a sampling, and if these don't interest you or appal you, then you can choose whatever new beliefs or automatic thoughts you choose. That's powerful.

If you really want to know how to quickly internalize the Game beliefs you wish I highly recommend you pick up either or both of these books: "The Self-Talk Solution" and/or "What to Say When You Talk to Yourself" both by Dr. Shad Helmstetter.

A lot of inner game simply boils down to not giving a fuck!! You approach a girl, she blows you out and says your breath stinks and your ugly, so what, she's a stupid bitch, who probably goes out just to reject guys to feel good about herself. Most guys would emotionally/psychologically be devastated by such a rejection, I know I would have, and it probably would have put me in a sad/depressed state all night.

I rarely get completely "blown out" by chicks when doing approaches these days, but it still happens and when a friend/wingman witnesses it, they're always like "damn dude, that's gotta hurt", and I'm just like "meh, she's a dumb bitch", and keep on rolling. Now this takes a fair amount of social conditioning to reach this level, a lot of it is just exposing yourself to women, putting yourself out there, doing "approaches", etc. No one bats a 100%, so rejection in some form is inevitable and if you're a newbie or average in looks/height/status, then you may get rejected more times than not.

Like the previous post by "DeliciousWolf", a lot of inner game is about overcoming self-limiting beliefs. Most guys inadvertantly engage in "self sabotage" and cock block themselves, when they tell themselves that the girl is "too pretty, cool, popular, she probably has a boyfriend, she'll never like me, etc...", they build up all these reasons in their heads why things won't work, and never even make the attempt, or enter with a weak, unconfident "frame."

I take solace with the zen approach to "picking up women", I am by no means an advanced player of this game, but I have come light years from where I was a year and a half ago, before I discovered Roosh, "game", and read bang. I used to be ruled by my approach anxiety, fear of rejection, and self limiting beliefs, to such an extreme that I could barely look a beautiful women in the eye and muster up the courage to say hello. Seriously, those basic things seemed like "climbing Mt. Kilimanjaro", and it was all in my head.

When I speak of the zen approach, I am mostly referring to "detachment" from outcome. Obviously, if I approach an attractive girl that I am sexually interested in, I have the intent of driving the interaction forward, whether that mean making out, getting her number, or taking her home. However, I don't let the outcome of that interaction dictate my happiness, self worth, or mental state. If she blows me out and tells me I'm ugly, whatever. If she says I'm the sexiest guy she's ever seen, and wants to swallow my cum, that's cool, but I don't let effect me too much either. Whatever happens, I go with the flow. It's all about going with the flow.

Quote: (08-11-2011 11:54 AM)DeliciousWolf Wrote:  

[*]Women never reject me

A good post, but this is delusional thinking. Better to just accept that some women will reject you, but know it won't shake you. You don't hear basketball players saying they never miss a shot.

Lets say we were not talking about Game. What if we were talking about golf, or soccer, or tennis, or math, trading on the stock market, playing an instrument, using a tool, painting, building a house, using a machine, speaking in public, etc.

How would one internalize and master these tasks???

Repetition, Repetition, Repetition!

There is no secret. No shortcut. No special tricks.

You want to be good, you have to work hard at it. When we talk about Game, some people think there are mental techniques that we can use to become supremely confident. Supreme confidence comes from years of hard work and practice, practice, practice. That is the best way to internalize any skill or belief. You can talk to yourself all day and tell yourself you are the best looking, coolest guy in the world. That might make you feel better. But, if you want to really internalize that feeling. You gotta have some real world results.

Getting pussy is the best way to internalize Game beliefs. When you can get pussy, you will not have to TRY TO BELIEVE, YOU WILL KNOW FOR SURE what you are capable of.


DeliciousWolf,

How exactly did you internalize this stuff? All you said was that you used a system based on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy? How exactly does it work? What is the system? Do I have to talk to a therapist? How does it work?

Quote: (08-11-2011 11:54 AM)DeliciousWolf Wrote:  

I went from having massive Social Anxiety (I couldn't even open) to now having these type of beliefs:


[*]I am attractive to women
[*]Women never reject me
[*]I open every woman I'm attracted to
[*]Women find me sexy as hell
[*]Women love me!
[*]I'm interesting, and interesting to talk to
[*]What I'm saying has value because I'm the one saying it
[*]What I'm saying is interesting because I find it interesting
[*]I am dating beautiful women on a regular basis
[*]I have an abundant sex life
[*]I'm having sex with new women every month
[/list]

Please explain how you internalized these beliefs.

Quote: (08-11-2011 01:17 PM)PDX Wrote:  

Quote: (08-11-2011 11:54 AM)DeliciousWolf Wrote:  

[*]Women never reject me

A good post, but this is delusional thinking. Better to just accept that some women will reject you, but know it won't shake you. You don't hear basketball players saying they never miss a shot.

The basketball hoop never rejects the player, only the shot.

She can never reject 'me'. She can reject my opener, she might not like how I opened, she might not like my sense of humor or my joke, she might not like the way I look, etc. But she can never reject me. She doesn't even know me. Thus, "Women never reject me." Thinking this way removes the ego from the equation.