Quote: (06-06-2011 03:56 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

My point is that the gap can be bridged, but it requires more complete assimilation(and some heavy social circle game) than most black males can and/or are willing to do.

The social circle point is interesting. If you were a big intimidating dark skin guy and tried to day game a woman on the street, you'd definitely have a much bigger hurdle to jump over than social circle game where you've already been "vetted" by the social circle and thus deemed to be safe. What do you rely on more these days? Cold approach or social circle game?

Quote: (06-06-2011 04:50 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Hip Hop culture defines Black Americans quite clearly?

This is where I disagree. Go talk to some Black adults and ask them if they think hip hop defines them. Not black teenagers, talk to some black adults about this.

Hip Hop has only been around since like 1985. If you are a black American over 40, you probably don't even listen to very much Hip Hop. What about all the years of Jazz, Funk, Soul, Doo-Wop, Blues, R&B, etc.

Isn't that stuff part of the Black American experience? You think the Black American experience begins and ends with Hip Hop?

Fine, I understand your point. Let me rephrase, starting with a few statements I mentioned earlier in this thread but have not been clear about.

Quote: (06-05-2011 07:33 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

I completely agree with this-most of what I'm saying here applies to women who are under 25, before they are forced to wise up. I already know I won't want them, but they certainly do have a "change of heart".

Quote: (06-06-2011 04:47 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

I have also noted, in response to UrbanNerd, that most of what I'm saying applies most strongly to younger black women(under 30) who have not yet gone far past their prime(at which point they are forced to reconsider their views on men in light of declining sexual market value).

In light of this, I'll state clearly that my discussions apply primarily to the current generation of black Americans-that is, those around 30 years old and younger. Hip-hop culture defines this generation(and perhaps a few on the tail end of the last one) quite clearly.

Perhaps it is a different world out there for the 45 year olds and the 50/60/70-somethings, but for anyone around 30 or under I believe my assertions are right on the mark.

Quote:Quote:

These people built the foundation that Hip Hop stands on.

Fun fact(and a shameless plug to promote the widely influential accomplishments of my homeland and its children): did you know that hip-hop's modern foundations are actually Jamaican? A Jamaican immigrant is actually widely considered the originator and founder of modern hip hop?

2.7 million former slaves on a little bitty island responsible for arguably the most influential cultural/musical phenomena of this century(reggae/bob marley, and hip hop). Talk about punching above your weight.

Quote: (06-06-2011 04:47 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(06-06-2011, 08:46 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  [quote]Quote:

You are a college kid at an Ivy League school who didn't grow up in Black America. I'm not sure you have enough experience living in Black America to really understand the whole picture of what is going on and why. Not saying that I am, but I have been living with, working with, and interacting with Black Americans since 1985.

Since you are not "culturally Black American " Let me tell you something about the American Black girls, They like a variety of different types of guys. "Gangsta" is not the only type they are attracted to.

Classic argumentum ad-hominem. My international background, age and the school I go to do not invalidate any of my conclusions. I do not have to be culturally black American, nor must I attend a "black school" and live in a "black neighborhood" or what have you in order to make a valid argument pertaining to the status of black America. If you think my argument is invalid(and if your wealth of interaction is as valuable as you say), then you should have no problem eliminating my contentions on the basis of their logic and doing so beyond a shadow of much doubt. That you've not done this says quite a bit about the validity of your own position.

Athlone,

I actually agree with most of what you have written so far, but he does have a point there. Living and experiencing the "hood" isn't the same as reading about what happens in the "hood." There are a lot of nuances and peculiarities that you will not get unless you grew up in that environment regardless of how much you read about the subject. For example, I have read a lot about Trenchtown(Jamaica) and have watched "Shottas" about a million times, however, I will not try to argue about socioeconomics factors about Trenchtown with a Jamaican who actually grew up there.

Furthermore, a lot of the negative personality traits(obesity, loud obnoxious personality, love for thugs) being discussed on this thread applies for the most part to hoodrats. Even within hoodrats there are different degrees of hoodrat-ism depending on where geographically she grew up and whether or not she was raised with a father at home. Unless you grew up in the hood in NYC, you will not necessary think there's a difference between how you step to a shorty who grew up in the Projects in Yonkers than you do to one who grew up in row house in Brooklyn.

Quote: (06-06-2011 05:44 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

The social circle point is interesting. If you were a big intimidating dark skin guy and tried to day game a woman on the street, you'd definitely have a much bigger hurdle to jump over than social circle game where you've already been "vetted" by the social circle and thus deemed to be safe. What do you rely on more these days? Cold approach or social circle game?

Social circle, no question. I can't be bothered jumping over the extra hurdles that the intimidation creates.
The social circle I've found did work for me back in high school and I didn't even know it (or take advantage of it). Over time, I earned a reputation as a "good guy" and all of that with a few dudes in school. Reputation spreads, and soon all of the girls are finding out too. People they like and trust are letting them know that, regardless of my appearance, I'm a good guy and not in anyway like the stereotypes(which is what would intimidate them on a cold approach).

Now, with all of this reassurance from trusted friends, they can open themselves up to me and start giving me signals, and I don't have to do anything but approach(which I was too retarded/anxious to do then but would reliably be able to do now). Its a win-win.

I'm sure with enough brute force cold approaches I could also succeed, but why work so hard?

Quote: (06-06-2011 05:54 PM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

Athlone,

I actually agree with most of what you have written so far, but he does have a point there. Living and experiencing the "hood" isn't the same as reading about what happens in the "hood." There are a lot of nuances and peculiarities that you will not get unless you grew up in that environment regardless of how much you read about the subject. For example, I have read a lot about Trenchtown(Jamaica) and have watched "Shottas" about a million times, however, I will not try to argue about socioeconomics factors about Trenchtown with a Jamaican who actually grew up there.

Furthermore, a lot of the negative personality traits(obesity, loud obnoxious personality, love for thugs) being discussed on this thread applies for the most part to hoodrats. Even within hoodrats there are different degrees of hoodrat-ism depending on where geographically she grew up and whether or not she was raised with a father at home. Unless you grew up in the hood in NYC, you will not necessary think there's a difference between how you step to a shorty who grew up in the Projects in Yonkers than you do to one who grew up in row house in Brooklyn.

Here is the core of my actual argument and the root of my contentions:

Quote: (06-06-2011 04:47 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

My contention from the very beginning has been as follows: black women are the most hypergamous female group within the US, are generally(read: most commonly) intolerant of "nice guys" and "softness", and the "bad boy" phenomenon is extremely exaggerated within Black American culture, where hip hop predominates. I have also noted, in response to UrbanNerd, that most of what I'm saying applies most strongly to younger black women(under 30) who have not yet gone far past their prime(at which point they are forced to reconsider their views on men in light of declining sexual market value).

Do you disagree? If you think this is wrong, then why? Citing my background does not constitute a legitimate rebuttal-that is ad-hominem and thus a form of logical fallacy, no matter how you phrase it or justify it. If my claims truly are incorrect, then it follows that they would be logically unstable-exposing this illogic would not be difficult in such a scenario, and would be the proper course of action in a debate.

If you disagree with my claims, all I ask is that you deconstruct them logically. If you're unable to do this, then I am clearly correct and you're better off just conceding the point.

That's all I'm saying.

As for degrees of "hoodratism", I agree that things vary, but my overall contention is that the concentration of said traits within the current generation of black america in the aggregate is higher than in other groups.

As I said in an earlier anecdote:

Quote: (06-06-2011 12:48 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

I have absolutely no question that all black american women respond the same way to that type of game. Read through all the ranting I did above and you might just find a couple of references to that(at least I think I mentioned it). I thoroughly believe that this phenomenon with black american women that I keep talking about transcends class.

Keep in mind that I attend an Ivy League school. Most of the black girls here are "upper class", and even the few who don't have money certainly have a high degree of intellect. All of them are very bright and (relatively) nerdy.

I can speak from firsthand experience when I say that none of that makes any difference. They're just as hypergamous(demanding for swagger, "hard" men, etc) as the rest of them, regardless of the IQ or the economic status. They're a little smarter about their approach(ex. you won't see them getting knocked up early as often as many young black women do in the US), but the mentality is still broadly similar.

Some of the "high class" black american females of this generation may not be as loud or obese as their lower class peers, but many aspects of their mentality(particularly the desire for some semblance of "hardness" or related imagery in their men) are broadly the same, just slightly toned down.
Relative to their socio-economically similar white/asian peers, they still possess more of these traits I keep harping on about.

Quote: (06-06-2011 05:50 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Fun fact(and a shameless plug to promote the widely influential accomplishments of my homeland and its children): did you know that hip-hop's modern foundations are actually Jamaican? A Jamaican immigrant is actually widely considered the originator and founder of modern hip hop?

2.7 million former slaves on a little bitty island responsible for arguably the most influential cultural/musical phenomena of this century(reggae/bob marley, and hip hop). Talk about punching above your weight.

I have some old school albums from U-Roy and his style is much more talking rhythmically than singing, similar to rap. Thing is though, those old school Jamaican toasters were inspired by American R&B at the time. So I guess there was a bit of cross-pollination. I'm a fan of toasting, rocksteady ska and reggae. Not too crazy about dancehall though.

Quote: (06-06-2011 05:55 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Quote: (06-06-2011 05:44 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

The social circle point is interesting. If you were a big intimidating dark skin guy and tried to day game a woman on the street, you'd definitely have a much bigger hurdle to jump over than social circle game where you've already been "vetted" by the social circle and thus deemed to be safe. What do you rely on more these days? Cold approach or social circle game?

Social circle, no question. I can't be bothered jumping over the extra hurdles that the intimidation creates.
The social circle I've found did work for me back in high school and I didn't even know it (or take advantage of it). Over time, I earned a reputation as a "good guy" and all of that with a few dudes in school. Reputation spreads, and soon all of the girls are finding out too. People they like and trust are letting them know that, regardless of my appearance, I'm a good guy and not in anyway like the stereotypes(which is what would intimidate them on a cold approach).

Now, with all of this reassurance from trusted friends, they can open themselves up to me and start giving me signals, and I don't have to do anything but approach(which I was too retarded/anxious to do then but would reliably be able to do now). Its a win-win.

I'm sure with enough brute force cold approaches I could also succeed, but why work so hard?

There is a pickup artist in NYC that banged 3 non black women in 24 hrs off stranger approach. So I wouldn't completely right off cold approaching.....






Cold approaching is tough but with instant results it can be worth it.

I'm skeptical about that video. How many women are going to let a guy they just met film them up in his bedroom. Plus any legality issues of posting this on youtube. Not saying guys like him don't pick up and bang in the same day, but this could be staged. Especially if they have some product or seminar they are trying to hawk.

Quote: (06-06-2011 04:50 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Athlone,

I'm enjoying this debate.

Quote: (06-06-2011 04:47 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Hip-Hop culture very well DOES define black Americans quite clearly.

Hip Hop culture defines Black Americans quite clearly?

This is where I disagree. Go talk to some Black adults and ask them if they think hip hop defines them. Not black teenagers, talk to some black adults about this.

Hip Hop has only been around since like 1985. If you are a black American over 40, you probably don't even listen to very much Hip Hop. What about all the years of Jazz, Funk, Soul, Doo-Wop, Blues, R&B, etc.

Isn't that stuff part of the Black American experience? You think the Black American experience begins and ends with Hip Hop?

What would these people say about your comments:

Miles Davis
John Coltrane
Little Richard
Chuck Berry
Bo Diddley
Ray Charles
Sam Cooke
Marvin Gaye
The Supremes
Aretha Franklin
Jimi Hendrix
James Brown
Smokey Robinson
Sly & the Family Stone
George Clinton
Roberta Flack
Dionne Warwick
Stevie Wonder
The O'Jays
Gladys Knight
Barry White
Donna Summer
Michael Jackson
Whitney Houston


These people can tall you alot about the Black American experience. They know alot more about it then Lil Wayne and Nikki Minaj.

These people built the foundation that Hip Hop stands on.

Ask Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, and Kareem Abdul Jabbar if Hip Hop defines them.

These people were around way before Rap music.

Even Tupac would say that there is much more to Black America then just Hip Hop.

Tupacs mom (Afeni Shakur) would really give you a history lesson about Black America.

Come out to California and go to a major university like UCLA, UC Berkeley, or San Francisco State. You will find black women that appreciate an intelligent, well adjusted, and stylish black man.

And go to a prison sometime and talk to some real gangstas. They will tell you that the gangsta life is mostly a bunch of bullshit and that Black people should be focused on education and wealth building.

I wanna hear President Obamas thoughts on this..

I want to reiterate what you said up there, minus your last sentence.

I get with what Athlone McGinnis is trying to say and I agree with him on the basic point that: American Black women under 30 are probably the most demanding group of women on the planet with regards to their requirements for a mate to be "Tall, Strong, Attractive, Hard/gangsta, but not a criminal,financially stable, respectful and possessing swag." The real question is, for anyone that meets these high standards the ROI for dealing with the average american black woman is extremely low compared to any of her sisters in pick a country,so why even be bothered?

This link is a funny look at the contradictions in the requirements for suitors for American black women.Got to pay her bills but let her be independent. Screw that. I support the comments made about looking outside of America for in shape and sexy black women who would be wifey material.

Quote: (06-06-2011 08:57 PM)azulsombra Wrote:  

I get with what Athlone McGinnis is trying to say and I agree with him on the basic point that: American Black women under 30 are probably the most demanding group of women on the planet with regards to their requirements for a mate to be "Tall, Strong, Attractive, Hard/gangsta, but not a criminal,financially stable, respectful and possessing swag." The real question is, for anyone that meets these high standards the ROI for dealing with the average american black woman is extremely low compared to any of her sisters in pick a country,so why even be bothered?

EXACTLY!

I think Ten put it real well:

Speaking Of Dating Black Women.....Peep Game

"Response To Why Black Women Are Less Physically Attractive" Article/Podcast

Athlone, I think what you have written is pretty factual but my question is:

What do you wish to be accomplished as a collective from the points that you have raised?

For the record, London women are the same way and I clocked this a while back.

what is so good about this thread that it went upto 115 post.

Quote: (06-07-2011 08:43 AM)Moma Wrote:  

Athlone, I think what you have written is pretty factual but my question is:

What do you wish to be accomplished as a collective from the points that you have raised?

You can't correct a problem until it is acknowledged.

If even a few men come to understand the ridiculous nature of the attitude associated with most Black American women and just quit dealing with it, then we're taking a step in the right direction. If a few of the black men who regularly are overlooked by black women(because they don't have swag, or are too "soft", etc, etc) can see that there are other options, then we're taking a step in the right direction. There are probably a number of such guys who have been quietly lurking (members and guests alike) reading this thread, and if even a handful of them are able to take something useful away from this debate then I've done all I wanted to do.

If black women want "hard" men(as I have firmly established in this thread that they do), then they should be left completely to them. No men of substance or actual value (that includes several of the non-black men in this thread who've expressed interest in them) should bother investing in them and paying that exorbitant price. If you want a black woman, meet her outside of the USA and get yourself a better ROI.

You raise a good point. I always thought that was this was common knowledge. There are plenty of immigrant black women to the U.S, Africans, Caribbeans, Afro-Latin so I really take their behaviour with a moderate pinch of salt.
Some of them are real sexy (I luv ASS especially). However, I have yet to work and live in the U.S to really be overly irritated by all that mess.

My similar with experience would be with the black London females. The behaviour was (I don't know the case now, I haven't been back since I left but fam tell me it's exactly the same) the same as US females.

This is due to the strong influence of American media and entertainment.
So how did I address this ridiculous need for the 'bad man' etc?
Simple. Location, location, location. I travelled outside of London. Hop on a train at Junction could find me in Southhampton, Northhampton etc where ALL women would be waiting to wet my tip.

Tongued down this sista in a Central London club to the dismay of my London females (London sistas don't tend to like lipsing in public *makes them look easy ) She was from Norwich and ganting for chocolate.

So there is your answer. I don't even know if you guys need to go all the way to Colombia if you want chocolate. Find the local African clubs, find the West Indian events, don't lock into the Americans if you don't like the style. Use the advantage of living in a heterogamous location to your advantage.

After all this discussion, I think Athlone is right...

Black American women under 30 do glorify the whole "thug" thing too much.

And Black American men under 30 also glorify the whole "thug" thing too much.

In fact, the whole Hip Hop culture glorifies the "thug" shit too much.

But its not just Hip Hop culture that glorifies "thug shit".

Go to the hood anywhere around the world. Its the same.

In Brazil they say..."the more guns you have, the more girls you have"

In Mexico and Colombia, the prettiest women are often dating gangsters.

Italian mafia guys are always very popular with the ladies.

Russian women may require more "alpha tough guy" shit then even Black American women.

In Eastern Europe the young hot girls consider gangsters to be good catch.

Its not just Black Americans. Thats the way it is in poor gritty areas.

Any women that grows up in a tough environment will admire a tough man.

Again, in terms of "gangster worship"...

Russians women may be worse then Black american women!

But, I do think this is an issue in Black America and hopefully as time goes on the culture can evolve to a more healthy perspective of what a man should be.

And it doesn't help that the mainstream media really promotes and glamorizes this shit too.

I think I see things a little different because I am in California. I think that generally speaking, Black Americans are less "ghetto" here on the West Coast. All the "thug" and "hood" stereotypes are less prevalent out here.

Athlone,

Come experience the West Coast. I think it will make you rethink your theory a little. And you will probably do better with the women, both black and white.

Following up on Giovanny's point, I once read an article that showed that hypergamy and demand for alpha males strongly correlates to places where there is a lot of poverty, fewer opportunities and more class division. Wish I could find that article again. Countries where there is economic parity and women are less inclined to choosing strong alpha characters. That's why N. European women(esp Scandinavian) respond best to the "outgoing beta" type as we have discussed in other threads, and Russian women or Latin women respond best to the alpha man. In a way, black America is like a nation within a nation. If you separated black America into it's own country, it would likely resemble Latin America and the Caribbean more than it would Anglo America as far as social, gender and economic conditions.

I generally agree with the points that speakeasy and Gio just made. In harsher environments, harder men are more valuable, and that is true the world over.

Here is why I think Black America is the most extreme of all of those situations, however: they choose this lifestyle, while others do not.

Life is hard in much of Latin America and the Caribbean. American sociologists go on and on about how disadvantaged Black Americans are, and perhaps they have a point when you compare them relative to other Americans. However, the fact of the matter is that black Americans are an order of magnitude wealthier than Latin Americans, Caribbeans, Africans and most Eastern Europeans.

On a per capita basis, they are just much, much richer than your average Colombian, Jamaican, or Brazilian. They enjoy far higher standards of living, access to far more comforts and social welfare(aid that poorer, more corrupt governments cannot provide as reliably if at all) and generally just benefit immensely from living in the world's lone superpower. As a Jamaican myself, I can tell you that the average inner-city "hoodrat" here in the US has a much easier time than your run of the mill Jamaican. That is just the sad fact of the matter-poverty on THAT level is just not seen much in the US.

Of all of these people, Black americans have by far the least incentive to glorify impoverished street life. They have access to far more pathways out of it than others do, and yet nobody aspires to that hard-luck lifestyle more than modern Black america.

Thugs get tons of play in Jamaica and they make a lot of babies, but as someone who has lived there I can tell you that it is far, FAR easier to be a "nice guy"(speak proper english, work hard in school, etc) there than it is in Black america as far as acceptance goes. My entire family there is like me, and they have no issues there. They find attractive young women and get plenty of respect. People there don't consider a peer who actually aspires to be something a "sellout". Envy is real and confrontation happens(it is a 3rd world country-death is just part of everyday life for many), but they're not going to question your racial or national identity because you tried to make something of yourself.

But in Black america? Play the "nice guy" role and you will:

-Be labelled an oreo/uncle tom/sellout
-Suddenly be "Not black enough"
-Have no chance with black women.
-Endure a high risk of assault in school.

Black americans with higher grades have fewer friends. No, seriously, its been studied.

In Black america, you'll see blacks who have absolutely nothing to do with real streetlife or the hood going out of their damn way to look like they're thugs. Half of modern hip-hop is filled with artists like that. Then you have the thoroughly middle class black kid (two educated, professional parents, owns a home, minivan, etc) running around trying to mimic drug dealers or worse, actually moving to deal drugs.

In these other parts of the world, people are responding to difficult lives. Tough guys get play in Brazilian favelas because murder is not rare. To survive as a Jamaican in Tivoli Gardens or any part of inner-city Kingston requires a TRULY hard resolve. You can get shot just sitting in school-these wannabe tough black Americans have no idea what goes on out there.

In black America, its just empty glorification. They don't have it nearly as hard as these Jamaican, Brazilian, and Albanian gangsters but they really want to look like they do. So you see black girls with ivy League degrees becoming thug-chasing groupies and private school educated boys running around with gang tats, dreads and all of this "swag", pretending to be tough. You see them going out of their way to ostracize and reject their peers who don't join them in this posturing for "being too white" because the whole damn culture is so insecure about its image.

That ostracization doesn't happen in Jamaica, Russia, Brazil and other places because there, people are not pretending to be tough and expecting you to go along with the act. They're simply hardened by a life that is actually difficult(corrupt governments, police death squads, no rule of law, no welfare, no federal aid, no civil rights, etc), which allows them to actually have a little more respect for people who make something of themselves, get educated, and get away from it. Black Americans don't know that hardship to the same extent, so they can't respect that achievement. Instead, the females claim those men to be "too soft" and everyone else insists they're "too white, uncle toms".

Yeah, women in tough environments admire tough men. But in Black America, unlike all of the other places you listed, much of that "toughness" is artificial. It is manufactured by the media and the culture and then mimicked by people who have no business doing so.

As for the extent of the worship, consider this: "Thugs" and those who try to mimic them are symbolic of modern black american culture, some of the first images that come to mind when people think of that population (ex. Lil Wayne, 50 Cent). About how many other modern cultures can you really say this? In how many other cultures are thug poseurs(tatted up, posturing and talking about murder, chains, grills, etc) and wannabe tough guys among the most visible ambassadors?

There is not a culture on earth that promotes that ghetto-worship more, that makes a greater effort to put that behavior to the forefront even if there's no real need to do so and works harder to pressure even its affluent members to join the charade.

One final thing:

Quote: (06-07-2011 03:26 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Russian women may require more "alpha tough guy" shit then even Black American women.

Russians women may be worse then Black american women!

Completely false.

Plenty of men who are very highly educated(many of them are teachers for god's sake), not tall and ripped, have no tattoos or other gang signs, speak proper English and are in all honesty complete beta males(or "greater-betas"-marriage minded, relatively "nice") from the US, Canada, Asia, and Western Europe regularly meet and keep very attractive Eastern European(and specifically Russian) women. It is not difficult to do, nor is it rare. This alone renders null any comparison to Black American women.

Those women are certainly less tolerant of completely pussified men-they do want a man who can lead them in a focused, unwavering manner and make decisions without flip-flopping or hesitating. That does not equate them with black american woman, who have a far greater tendency to insist on men who look visually identical to actual murderers and don't give others the time of day. Nice guys(who aren't completely pussy-whipped) regularly win with Eastern European(and specifically Russian) women. In fact, stats show that American men married to mail order brides from that area are pretty successful(20% divorce rate vs. 50% for general populace).

I know you want to redeem modern, current-generation black american women somehow(why, I don't know-are you even black?), but there is no equivocation. They are a unique breed of their own. They do not have an equal and there are no ifs ands or buts that can be applied to them.
Bottomline.

Not going to read every single post but I've NEVER had a problem with black girls and I'm a 5'8 skinny hispanic guy. They're always easy to talk to and approach. I think I shared my experiences on the first page.

And if you live in DC you know what the more feminine black dikes go after.


Lesbian black women know you need to be hood to bag a bad black chic. LOL



Even the dikes want swag. HAHAHAHA

Quote: (06-07-2011 06:55 PM)houston Wrote:  

Not going to read every single post but I've NEVER had a problem with black girls and I'm a 5'8 skinny hispanic guy. They're always easy to talk to and approach. I think I shared my experiences on the first page.

Black women are open to approach from other races and don't hold them to the same standard as they would black men. I think this stems from the fact that men of other races are either not attracted to them or are too scared to approach. So anytime a guy of another race does approach them its a NOVELTY. Which I think all women love.

Amen, rakishness nailed it here. Black american women are the least likely among all women in the country to enter into an interracial relationship. Therefore when they do get with another race, the same standards don't apply. This isn't a thread about guys who are bitter about not being able to attract black american females. (I'm not, I have been with them in the past, I just wisely choose not to do so now) That's not the issue, it's the fact that they are a unique breed and are a GROUP que no valen la pena = that aren't worth it. Houston, your obviously from texas and i will admit that black women there can have slightly better attitudes. But as someone who's observed them from the east coast, midwest, "dirtysouth" and west coast, I have a somewhat broader scope of experience and know this is a nation wide thing.

Quote: (06-07-2011 11:11 PM)azulsombra Wrote:  

This isn't a thread about guys who are bitter about not being able to attract black american females. (I'm not, I have been with the in the past, I just wisely choose not to do so know) That's not the issue, it's the fact that they are a unique breed and are a GROUP que no valen la pena = that aren't worth it.

Exactly. "Bitter" is the first defense thrown out by white-knights and black females when discussions like this come up, and it is nothing but empty shaming.

I'm just telling it like it is. I see the facts as they are, and I present them. If they're not facts then my opponents are welcome to show this, but I've yet to see any evidence to the contrary for reasons both numerous and blatantly obvious.

People can ignore the obnoxiously overpriced elephant in the room if they wish and pretend that all is well, but that doesn't do anybody any good.