Quote: (06-24-2013 12:26 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

Quote: (06-23-2013 11:41 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

Y'know....

I keep reading all of these "the government is invading our privacy" stuff. There are times where rules need to be bended to the good of the nation. Face it, the U.S.A. still has a lot to lose if the guard is dropped. If the technology is not to the point where we cannot ignore monitoring our own people....so be it....we just have to bend the rules and monitor our own.

Of course, I have a horse in this race. I AM a NSA contractor, and my income does fluctuate between $175-$200K/year.

P.S.: I need to keep renting out those Presidential Suites in the Dominican Republic for my Dominican temporary "novias"

If you're really an NSA contractor, why are posting here? can't they trace all the shit you say?

As long as I am not telling specifics, they won't care.

On top of that, I have 23 years in engineering (only 8 as NSA contractor). I can easily go back to private sector. Sure, I would take a little income hit, but I know I will still eat well.

Quote: (06-24-2013 12:31 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

As long as I am not telling specifics, they won't care.

On top of that, I have 23 years in engineering (only 8 as NSA contractor). I can easily go back to private sector. Sure, I would take a little income hit, but I know I will still eat well.

You're a smart guy obviously. It's too bad that the American economy is such shit, that it's so burdened by taxation, regulation, short-sighted investors, and Wall Street con artists, or otherwise men of your expertise could be put to productive purposes instead of spying upon hundreds of millions of your fellow citizens.

In the meantime, when judging either American men who are driven abroad in search of feminine women or their peers who are forced outside our borders for fear of the now morbidly obese security state, well, I have sympathy for both groups but the latter strikes me as the more worthy of accommodation.

Quote: (06-24-2013 12:38 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  

otherwise men of your expertise could be put to productive purposes instead of spying upon hundreds of millions of your fellow citizens.

I agree with that, although I personally have not been placed on "Monitoring Fellow Citizens" on any of my projects. Probably the big "stink" within NSA about this whistleblower issue is that "monitoring our own" is supposed to be "against the rules" and many of us had to take VERY LONG AND ANNOYING training courses about not "monitoring our own" and we still supposedly do it.

Quote: (06-23-2013 11:41 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

There are times where rules need to be bended to the good of the nation.

The rules being the 1st and 4th Amendment of The Constitution of the United States of America?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amend...nstitution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amen...nstitution

I can't see any good coming out of this kind of spying, especially as the nexus of power who are behind this spying don't show respect to fluffy little animals.

So lemme get this straight:

He exposes secrets, splits for Hong Kong, gets everyone pissed at him, gets charged with espionage, then sets off for Russia?

Gee, that's an awful lot of trouble to go through just to find an excuse to be around Russian women. But a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do!

-

http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-ju...ana-2013-6

hahaha

-

Talk about a bunch of snakes on a plane.

Technically, the US can ground a Moscow - Cuba flight if it goes through US airspace (traditionally it does). The pilot, however, can change course to evade US airspace.

http://rt.com/news/snowden-us-airspace-f...ition-145/

Quote:Quote:

Snowden’s plane to Cuba will pass through US airspace - source
Ex-CIA contractor, Edward Snowden’s plane to Cuba will pass through US airspace, an Interfax source reports. Washington has an extradition notice against Snowden on charges of espionage and could intervene if the plane enters US jurisdiction.

Aeroflot flight SU150 and will fly through US airspace a couple of kilometers from the coast of New York on its way to Havana, reported Russian news agency Interfax, citing a source in Sheremetyevo airport air traffic control. Snowden has checked in for the flight and there are two seats under his name, reports the Associated Press, citing Aeroflot. The plane has finished boarding and Snowden has not been seen on board.

The source added that US air traffic control can legally ground the plane and take Snowden into custody on charges of espionage, theft and conversion of government property. However, the pilot may change the course of the flight so as not to pass through American airspace.

“The pilot of the plane is within his rights to change the course of the flight and there should be enough fuel to do so,” said the source to Interfax.

Chances are, he's already there.. He probably has quick access to fake passports and the like, and he seems smart enough to lead people away from his trail long enough for him to make a quick escape. And being smart, he probably accounted for the airspace dilemma by heading south to Africa or something first, and heading directly west from there.

I don't know why you guys are so happy that this guy is giving state secrets to the Chinese and Russians.

Ultimately, it will only hurt you if you're an American to see America decline even further.

We don't know if he's giving state secrets to China and/or Russia.

We do know that from his whistle blowing the US government is spying on its own citizens.

Funny that you'd chose to concentrate on the former.

If anyone is contributing to the decline of the United States, it's the damn government itself. By gratuitously spying on its own citizens, without public consultation even, the government undermines the essential liberties on which this country was founded. Snowden is simply reminding us of that fact.

Quote: (06-24-2013 12:29 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

Exposing the spying is not the reason why people think he is a traitor.

People think he is a traitor because he gave China and Russia whatever information he had about our spying operations on them. If he hadn't, both countries probably would have sent him back to the US without hesitation.

China is hacking the shit out of everyone else, so what the government is doing is absolutely necessary.

You honestly believe the US is hacking Chinese sites because the Chinese hacks everyone?

What about our allies? Are they also hacking everyone?

The US government has been slowly taking away our rights given to us by our Constitution. Is that also China's fault?

I, for one, am glad that the hypocrisy of the US is being shown on center stage. Maybe it will bring some sense to the American public and we can get back to what made this country great. Judging by your post, I don't have much faith in that happening.

Quote: (06-24-2013 09:46 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Quote: (06-24-2013 12:29 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

Exposing the spying is not the reason why people think he is a traitor.

People think he is a traitor because he gave China and Russia whatever information he had about our spying operations on them. If he hadn't, both countries probably would have sent him back to the US without hesitation.

China is hacking the shit out of everyone else, so what the government is doing is absolutely necessary.

I, for one, am glad that the hypocrisy of the US is being shown on center stage. Maybe it will bring some sense to the American public and we can get back to what made this country great. Judging by your post, I don't have much faith in that happening.

Quote: (06-24-2013 09:32 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

We don't know if he's giving state secrets to China and/or Russia.

We do know that from his whistle blowing the US government is spying on its own citizens.

Funny that you'd chose to concentrate on the former.

I agree that the government is acting increasingly crazy, and the Obama administration has not been as advertised.

However, why would the Russians/Chinese help Snowden if they didn't get anything back in return? There have been reports that he took files from the NSA from a thumb drive and took those to Hong Kong on 4 different laptops. We have no idea how much is on those files and how they could compromise US security interests.

Quote: (06-24-2013 09:46 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Quote: (06-24-2013 12:29 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

Exposing the spying is not the reason why people think he is a traitor.

People think he is a traitor because he gave China and Russia whatever information he had about our spying operations on them. If he hadn't, both countries probably would have sent him back to the US without hesitation.

China is hacking the shit out of everyone else, so what the government is doing is absolutely necessary.

You honestly believe the US is hacking Chinese sites because the Chinese hacks everyone?

Yes, China's army does fund hackers that attack almost everyone. I worked at a low level research lab a few years ago, and even we were harassed by the Chinese. I have no doubt that the hacking is much worse for things that actually matter like here, here and here for just three of the latest cases against the country.

So you want China to steal information about our political campaigns, intelligence agencies, weapons systems and anything else of value and do nothing about it? That is really stupid in my opinion.

Quote: (06-24-2013 10:13 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

Yes, China's army does fund hackers that attack almost everyone. I worked at a low level research lab a few years, and even we were harassed by the Chinese. I have no doubt that the hacking is much worse for things that actually matter like here, here and here for just three of the latest cases against the country.

So you want China to steal information about our political campaigns, intelligence agencies, weapons systems and anything else of value and do nothing about it? A new low for stupidity in my opinion.

You seem to be missing the point completely here. China has nothing to do with the USA spying on citizens of the USA...

The Obama administration is just a bunch of crooks.

Americans are in for a big wake up call very soon I suspect. It is not such a "conspiracy theory" that the worlds most powerful country is primarily run by a bunch of people whose primary aim is power, control and money.

A lot of people around the world are very uncomfortable that these war mongering criminals have access to their private and personal communications.

Look what happened to China and the Soviet Union, there is no way those guys want to go back to THAT - whilst the American country seems to be careening straight into a fascist totalitarian state.

Heaven forbid you are against that program. That is why this breach of privacy is significant. A lot of people are just not going to sit back and let their rights and liberties taken from them so easily, and significantly - these are the sorts of the people who likely have something to worry about, as they are up against big brother as he keeps tightening the screws.

Quote: (06-24-2013 10:13 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

Quote: (06-24-2013 09:46 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Quote: (06-24-2013 12:29 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

Exposing the spying is not the reason why people think he is a traitor.

People think he is a traitor because he gave China and Russia whatever information he had about our spying operations on them. If he hadn't, both countries probably would have sent him back to the US without hesitation.

China is hacking the shit out of everyone else, so what the government is doing is absolutely necessary.

You honestly believe the US is hacking Chinese sites because the Chinese hacks everyone?

So you want China to steal information about our political campaigns, intelligence agencies, weapons systems and anything else of value and do nothing about it? That is really stupid in my opinion.

Isn't it China that owns the largest share of US debt? Sounds like a fair ROI to me.

Quote: (06-24-2013 10:39 AM)tiggaling Wrote:  

The Obama administration is just a bunch of crooks.

Americans are in for a big wake up call very soon I suspect. It is not such a "conspiracy theory" that the worlds most powerful country is primarily run by a bunch of people whose primary aim is power, control and money.

Newsflash for the naive: Only crooks become politicians in the first place.

Everything in the world is, and has always been, run by people with money (or the pre-money power equivalent). 1% already has 47% of Americas money.
Things are not changing in any significant way, everything is just bread and circuses to keep you distracted.

The naiveté of doomsayers is based on ignorance of certain basic realities:

1) The rich have everything they want (except more of the same), and want things to stay the same-- with them accruing more and more. .
2) There is no one with enough power to upset the lovely apple cart they're riding on.

In 6 weeks, or 6 months tops, Snowden is a forgotten blip day-to-day living in Moscow, and it's back to Kardashians. And the rich are getting their kids into Harvard and the like, for another generation of the same fun.

Not only does nothing change--nothing changes at all.

If I were responsible for US cyber intelligence, I'd build the same system and keep expanding it.

If I were an individual, I'd fight against such a system.

It's not a matter of right and wrong, it's a matter of competing interests. From my interests, it's horribly detrimental. Horrible, scary, ominous.

Evolution is an arms race. It won't end well, but it will end.

Quote: (06-24-2013 10:20 AM)Architekt Wrote:  

Quote: (06-24-2013 10:13 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

Yes, China's army does fund hackers that attack almost everyone. I worked at a low level research lab a few years, and even we were harassed by the Chinese. I have no doubt that the hacking is much worse for things that actually matter like here, here and here for just three of the latest cases against the country.

So you want China to steal information about our political campaigns, intelligence agencies, weapons systems and anything else of value and do nothing about it? A new low for stupidity in my opinion.

You seem to be missing the point completely here. China has nothing to do with the USA spying on citizens of the USA...

Of course it doesn't.

However, that doesn't mean I want Snowden going to China/Russia and probably giving out US state secrets in exchange for money, asylum and whatever else he wants.

Quote: (06-24-2013 09:46 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Quote: (06-24-2013 12:29 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

Exposing the spying is not the reason why people think he is a traitor.

People think he is a traitor because he gave China and Russia whatever information he had about our spying operations on them. If he hadn't, both countries probably would have sent him back to the US without hesitation.

China is hacking the shit out of everyone else, so what the government is doing is absolutely necessary.

You honestly believe the US is hacking Chinese sites because the Chinese hacks everyone?

What about our allies? Are they also hacking everyone?

The US government has been slowly taking away our rights given to us by our Constitution. Is that also China's fault?

I, for one, am glad that the hypocrisy of the US is being shown on center stage. Maybe it will bring some sense to the American public and we can get back to what made this country great. Judging by your post, I don't have much faith in that happening.

Amen. Snowden wasn't even mentioned on the local newscasts today. The top headline you ask? The upcoming triumphant return of fucking twinkies! How fucked we are is unimaginable at this point.

Quote: (06-24-2013 09:58 AM)speeddemon Wrote:  

However, why would the Russians/Chinese help Snowden if they didn't get anything back in return? There have been reports that he took files from the NSA from a thumb drive and took those to Hong Kong on 4 different laptops. We have no idea how much is on those files and how they could compromise US security interests.

Exactly, you don't know. You're making assumptions.

Quote: (06-23-2013 11:41 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

Face it, the U.S.A. still has a lot to lose if the guard is dropped.

There are more important things than safety.

No one is proposing a total shutdown of the NSA, we'd just like them to get off the backs of the citizens.