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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 03:38 PM
This dude - who happens to be a high school dropout - left his girlfriend and $200,000/year NSA job in Hawaii to fly to Hong Kong and make the biggest intelligence leak in a generation. Pretty remarkable.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun...nowden-why
Quote:Quote:
Edward Snowden was interviewed over several days in Hong Kong by Glenn Greenwald and Ewen MacAskill.
Q: Why did you decide to become a whistleblower?
A: "The NSA has built an infrastructure that allows it to intercept almost everything. With this capability, the vast majority of human communications are automatically ingested without targeting. If I wanted to see your emails or your wife's phone, all I have to do is use intercepts. I can get your emails, passwords, phone records, credit cards.
"I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things … I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded. That is not something I am willing to support or live under."
Q: But isn't there a need for surveillance to try to reduce the chances of terrorist attacks such as Boston?
A: "We have to decide why terrorism is a new threat. There has always been terrorism. Boston was a criminal act. It was not about surveillance but good, old-fashioned police work. The police are very good at what they do."
Q: Do you see yourself as another Bradley Manning?
A: "Manning was a classic whistleblower. He was inspired by the public good."
Q: Do you think what you have done is a crime?
A: "We have seen enough criminality on the part of government. It is hypocritical to make this allegation against me. They have narrowed the public sphere of influence."
Q: What do you think is going to happen to you?
A: "Nothing good."
Q: Why Hong Kong?
A: "I think it is really tragic that an American has to move to a place that has a reputation for less freedom. Still, Hong Kong has a reputation for freedom in spite of the People's Republic of China. It has a strong tradition of free speech."
Q: What do the leaked documents reveal?
A: "That the NSA routinely lies in response to congressional inquiries about the scope of surveillance in America. I believe that when [senator Ron] Wyden and [senator Mark] Udall asked about the scale of this, they [the NSA] said it did not have the tools to provide an answer. We do have the tools and I have maps showing where people have been scrutinised most. We collect more digital communications from America than we do from the Russians."
nsa whistleblower Snowden is a 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA
Q: What about the Obama administration's protests about hacking by China?
A: "We hack everyone everywhere. We like to make a distinction between us and the others. But we are in almost every country in the world. We are not at war with these countries."
Q: Is it possible to put security in place to protect against state surveillance?
A: "You are not even aware of what is possible. The extent of their capabilities is horrifying. We can plant bugs in machines. Once you go on the network, I can identify your machine. You will never be safe whatever protections you put in place."
Q: Does your family know you are planning this?
A: "No. My family does not know what is happening … My primary fear is that they will come after my family, my friends, my partner. Anyone I have a relationship with …
I will have to live with that for the rest of my life. I am not going to be able to communicate with them. They [the authorities] will act aggressively against anyone who has known me. That keeps me up at night."
Q: When did you decide to leak the documents?
A: "You see things that may be disturbing. When you see everything you realise that some of these things are abusive. The awareness of wrong-doing builds up. There was not one morning when I woke up [and decided this is it]. It was a natural process.
"A lot of people in 2008 voted for Obama. I did not vote for him. I voted for a third party. But I believed in Obama's promises. I was going to disclose it [but waited because of his election]. He continued with the policies of his predecessor."
Q: What is your reaction to Obama denouncing the leaks on Friday while welcoming a debate on the balance between security and openness?
A: "My immediate reaction was he was having difficulty in defending it himself. He was trying to defend the unjustifiable and he knew it."
Q: What about the response in general to the disclosures?
A: "I have been surprised and pleased to see the public has reacted so strongly in defence of these rights that are being suppressed in the name of security. It is not like Occupy Wall Street but there is a grassroots movement to take to the streets on July 4 in defence of the Fourth Amendment called Restore The Fourth Amendment and it grew out of Reddit. The response over the internet has been huge and supportive."
Q: Washington-based foreign affairs analyst Steve Clemons said he overheard at the capital's Dulles airport four men discussing an intelligence conference they had just attended. Speaking about the leaks, one of them said, according to Clemons, that both the reporter and leaker should be "disappeared". How do you feel about that?
A: "Someone responding to the story said 'real spies do not speak like that'. Well, I am a spy and that is how they talk. Whenever we had a debate in the office on how to handle crimes, they do not defend due process – they defend decisive action. They say it is better to kick someone out of a plane than let these people have a day in court. It is an authoritarian mindset in general."
Q: Do you have a plan in place?
A: "The only thing I can do is sit here and hope the Hong Kong government does not deport me … My predisposition is to seek asylum in a country with shared values. The nation that most encompasses this is Iceland. They stood up for people over internet freedom. I have no idea what my future is going to be.
"They could put out an Interpol note. But I don't think I have committed a crime outside the domain of the US. I think it will be clearly shown to be political in nature."
Q: Do you think you are probably going to end up in prison?
A: "I could not do this without accepting the risk of prison. You can't come up against the world's most powerful intelligence agencies and not accept the risk. If they want to get you, over time they will."
Q: How to you feel now, almost a week after the first leak?
A: "I think the sense of outrage that has been expressed is justified. It has given me hope that, no matter what happens to me, the outcome will be positive for America. I do not expect to see home again, though that is what I want."
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 04:11 PM
I wonder why anyone is actually surprised at this.
The CIA and NSA have been stalking American citizens and assassinating would be whistle blowers and Communist symapthizers ever since the Cold War started.
This is just another lesson to encrypt all your fucking data.
In any case, I imagine the Chinese government is laughing itself silly right now.
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 06:27 PM
He's basically just confirming what we already know.
The NSA is like fucking double the size of the CIA and less is even known about it.
It reminds of when Batman tells Morgan Freeman to put his name in the machine so he can spy on him and the rest of Gotham.
Way too much power.
You want to know the only thing you can assume about a broken down old man? It's that he's a survivor.
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 06:45 PM
Boom.
I have suspected for a while that the NSA was tapping everyone. Now we know.
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 06:55 PM
Does it really matter is the question. You can only control what information you put out. Unless major protest happens nothing will change.
Sad part is governmnet was started to protect our borders, protect our freedoms, and protect our rights. The government has only gotten bigger to protect us from terrorism. What is the next step for our govt?
I cant wait to get my gps chip implant next decade. I am a soldier so they might mark us to find us if we were kidnapped haha. God Bless Amurica.
The cycle of disrespect can start with just an appetizer.
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 07:07 PM
Any government's top priority at any time and place is to protect its own existence. Unless the populace is reminded of the importance of transparency, freedom of speech and movement, restricting government power and dividing it up between institutions on a fairly regular basis (every 10th year or so), the natural regression is towards tyranny.
On the flip side, they government isn't going to bother coming after you unless you try to go after them.. For some time until totalitarianism sets in.
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 07:37 PM
What that man did takes balls. It's unfortunate he'll be spending the rest of his life looking over his shoulder whlist being forgotten by the American public after a week.
Reppin the Jersey Shore.
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 08:10 PM
I might be going out on a limb here but hear me out. This whole notion of sacrificing freedom in the name of 'security' is a direct result of the feminization of our society. Women love submitting (i.e. giving up freedom) to a higher authority (dominance, i.e. security). Femininity craves protection over freedom. Masculinity is the opposite. The freedom vs. security debate, which has really escalated in the 10+ years since 9/11, is a direct result of this . Women want assurances in a world where nothing is assured. Men accept the risks. This is just my opinion. Open to debate, my hearts not set on this idea although it makes sense to me. Thoughts?
Civilize the mind but make savage the body.
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 08:19 PM
Havent we killed an American without his right to a fair trail within the last year or so? If the feds really wanted him gone they would mark him as a terrorist then handle their business.
I am surprised CNN actually ran the interview. I wonder if it will become big news or go away. I choose the latter.
I dont think I have ever seen the head of NSA before. You always see CIA and homeland security. Sometimes the Fed but rarely NSA.
The cycle of disrespect can start with just an appetizer.
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 08:26 PM
Quote: (06-09-2013 06:57 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:
It does matter if the government one day decides to use PRISM to punish political adversaries.
The psychology field is a strong weapon in this as well. Soviet Union psychiatrists deemed political adversaries as 'crazy' and had them institutionalized. Oddly enough, danger and play had a good tweet about this. He mentioned how the vast majority of psych degrees are now being awarded to women, which could result in masculinity being labeled a psychological dysfunction. Masculinity, by the way, doesn't submit to unjust authority very well.
Civilize the mind but make savage the body.
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 08:26 PM
Quote: (06-09-2013 08:19 PM)TexasMade Wrote:
Havent we killed an American without his right to a fair trail within the last year or so? If the feds really wanted him gone they would mark him as a terrorist then handle their business.
I am surprised CNN actually ran the interview. I wonder if it will become big news or go away. I choose the latter.
I dont think I have ever seen the head of NSA before. You always see CIA and homeland security. Sometimes the Fed but rarely NSA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Inglis
I think Bradley Manning has been in military prison for a few years. His trial actually started just last month.
No one remembers him.
You want to know the only thing you can assume about a broken down old man? It's that he's a survivor.
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 08:52 PM
Quote: (06-09-2013 08:50 PM)Norset Wrote:
Quote: (06-09-2013 08:26 PM)nek Wrote:
Quote: (06-09-2013 06:57 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:
It does matter if the government one day decides to use PRISM to punish political adversaries.
The psychology field is a strong weapon in this as well. Soviet Union psychiatrists deemed political adversaries as 'crazy' and had them institutionalized. Oddly enough, danger and play had a good tweet about this. He mentioned how the vast majority of psych degrees are now being awarded to women, which could result in masculinity being labeled a psychological dysfunction. Masculinity, by the way, doesn't submit to unjust authority very well.
Don't confuse psychology and psychiatry. Only psychiatrists can medicate and institutionalize; you need the medical background. But the concern is real, it's a form of torture and imprisonment that is easy to cover up and excuse.
Yeah I should've clarified. I'm aware of the difference, but one does feed the other, so by transitive property, the concern is the same.
Civilize the mind but make savage the body.
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 10:12 PM
This guy has stones because he could be murdered or just disappear. He looks meek and mild, but to do this requires a incredible amount of courage.
"Feminism is a trade union for ugly women"- Peregrine
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 10:17 PM
What is funny is how quickly this country is heading for the world depicted in George Orwell's book "1984", and yet people don't seem to care. As long as there is fast food, online shopping, sports on TV, and porn on the internet, the masses are happy.
I've said it before and I will say it again: we get the government we deserve.
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 10:32 PM
The thing is, as a society, we are willingly heading in that direction.
This guy is one of the few dissidents that has said "fuck that, you'll never take me alive."
There's some writer that expounded upon that idea, similar to Orwell, but I can't remember his name.
I'm gonna start a start up that helps eliminate your digital footprint. I'll make millions, I tell ya.
You want to know the only thing you can assume about a broken down old man? It's that he's a survivor.
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 10:49 PM
I've nothing particularly insightful to add here that hasn't been said already. This man is a hero. And he will be quickly forgotten. He gave up his entire way life for our freedoms but in a month few will remember the guy. I feel bad for him in that sense.
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 11:03 PM
I think were going more to Brave New World direction than Orwell. Much more mood altering meds, endless entertainment, eventually Eugenics, and hedonism.
I heard that anonymous is getting involved with this somehow?
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 11:17 PM
Quote: (06-09-2013 08:10 PM)nek Wrote:
I might be going out on a limb here but hear me out. This whole notion of sacrificing freedom in the name of 'security' is a direct result of the feminization of our society. Women love submitting (i.e. giving up freedom) to a higher authority (dominance, i.e. security). Femininity craves protection over freedom. Masculinity is the opposite. The freedom vs. security debate, which has really escalated in the 10+ years since 9/11, is a direct result of this . Women want assurances in a world where nothing is assured. Men accept the risks. This is just my opinion. Open to debate, my hearts not set on this idea although it makes sense to me. Thoughts?
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety” Benjamin Franklin 1775
Girls should be an ornament to the eye, not an ache in the ear.
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The Edward Snowden Thread
06-09-2013, 11:53 PM
Unfortunately the only alternative political options are Tea Party/Libertarian types. They may be good on personal freedom matters, but on economic issues they suck to me. They don't care about things like affordable health care or the rising gap between the haves and have-nots.
![[Image: JDYc5yps.png]](http://i.imgur.com/JDYc5yps.png)
![[Image: 31u%2BvCLJi3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31u%2BvCLJi3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)