I am only talking about unpaid work done by volunteers in charities.

Do you think that would take a big hit if atheists left America?

Quote: (05-29-2013 12:49 PM)soup Wrote:  

Quote: (05-29-2013 12:46 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

If all atheists left America:

Average IQ would decrease.
Divorce rates would increase.
Teen pregnancy rates would increase.
Illiteracy would increase.
Violent crime rates would increase.
STD rates would increase.
Racial prejudice rates would increase.

So no, religion is not a safeguard against anything but your own anxieties.

I like this, but please substantiate with actual numbers. I'm inclined to believe that divorce rate would go down actually.

Thanks.

U.S. divorce rates for various faith groups, age groups, & geographic areas.

The rest you can find via this website.

Quote: (05-29-2013 12:50 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

I am only talking about unpaid work done by volunteers in charities.

Do you think that would take a big hit if atheists left America?

There's been quite some research saying so.

Might in fact be so. I myself generally don't give to charity, mostly because I don't think most of the money reaches the intended destination. I'd rather give to society by being a scientist and later business man.

On the other hand, atheist might give more anonymously, or in other ways, than in a local community.

And a lot of religious 'charity' is actually proselytizing in disguise.

And Bill Gates and Buffett are atheist, and try topping their donations.

lol - I forgot about those two!

Also - won't be long before Bill Gates gets the Nobel Peace Prize.

Quote: (05-28-2013 05:32 PM)ElJefe Wrote:  

Quote: (05-28-2013 05:21 PM)soup Wrote:  

Religion enables hopelessness. It's the drug dealer that wants to string out the addict just enough so that he buys more but doesn't die. Religions take advantage of people's hopelessness.

Religion is just a way of interpreting uncertainty. Humans can't possibly know everything, so religion allows us to fill the gaps. Some religions do this better than others. Christianity's attitude to the unknown is, however, quite unlike anything else we've seen - Rodney Stark wrote some great books on this. In particular, Christian (especially Catholic) doctrine uniquely encouraged scientific investigation when all other religious and clerics supressed it. This continued until the counter-reformation, when the Catholic Church was taken over by fanatics. In any case, atheism is merely another religion where you place a great deal of faith in the idea that everything is an accident.

The dogged certainty of atheists is by far the most terrifying religion of all. What a person absolutely certain of their view is capable of doing to other people who don't "see the light" is horrifying. When it ceases to be about issues, but starts to be about the inherent evilness of your opponents, then things start to get scary.

And when there is no religious morality to temper the ideas of an atheist completely "free" of religious morality, or any morality, then you get millions of small children with swollen bellies, no teeth or hair, lying helpless, dehydrated, lifeless on a little street, ignored by the passers by who themselves are so famished they're discussing whether to eat the neighbor's carcass

C.S. Lewis wrote some very good essays on Christianity and morality. Mere Christianity and Abolition of Man. They were meant to bolster British morale during WWII.

It's not a religion. There's no leap of faith being taken.

Atheism doesn't say that everything is an accident. It just says that their is no proof for the existence of god.

Quote: (05-29-2013 06:31 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

Saddam Hussein was a Baathist I think. Technically a Muslim, but not one of the main sects. I don't know if he was practicing or an actual believer though.

Ba'ath isn't a religious sect, it was a political ideology combining socialism and Arab nationalism, they were not motivated by religion. SH was nominally a Sunni muslim.

They should start a new group called antitheists.

Here's how it works:

Even if there is a good, it doesn't matter because you despise everything he does and stands for. You loathe him in the same way a slave loathes the master.

There.

Now it doesn't matter if there is a god or not. He's still an asshole no matter which way you cut it.

UPDATE

Already exists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitheism , only I say take it one step further and remove proof the burden of proof from the equation:

Let's call it Antigods.. people who don't want to have anything to with god regardless or whether or not he's real.

I'm with you 100%. I would no more worship God than I would expect my dog to worship me.

Fuck him - if God is so insecure he needs validation from his 'children'.

I will happily swap places with God anyday. He can have my crappy life - and I will be God. And I will give him a free pass on ever having to worship me.

Quote: (05-29-2013 12:46 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

Quote: (05-29-2013 12:31 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

I'm an atheist. But - I gotta' hold up my hand. On the whole I think religious people are better people than atheists.

If all atheists left America:

Average IQ would decrease.
Divorce rates would increase.
Teen pregnancy rates would increase.
Illiteracy would increase.
Violent crime rates would increase.
STD rates would increase.
Racial prejudice rates would increase.

So no, religion is not a safeguard against anything but your own anxieties.

Total falsehoods. Overwhelmingly the most famous and profound scientists have been Christian.

Quote: (05-29-2013 06:01 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (05-29-2013 12:46 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

Quote: (05-29-2013 12:31 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

I'm an atheist. But - I gotta' hold up my hand. On the whole I think religious people are better people than atheists.

If all atheists left America:

Average IQ would decrease.
Divorce rates would increase.
Teen pregnancy rates would increase.
Illiteracy would increase.
Violent crime rates would increase.
STD rates would increase.
Racial prejudice rates would increase.

So no, religion is not a safeguard against anything but your own anxieties.

Total falsehoods. Overwhelmingly the most famous and profound scientists have been Christian.

For most of western history, if you weren't a Christian, you'd be killed.

Do prisons really keep records of people's religious affiliations?

Even so, I would expect the religious make up of the prisons any nation to be roughly the same as you would find outside. I'm sure the majority of prisoners in China are going to be non-religious.

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2005/09/that-...ticle.html

Steve Sailer gives a good analysis on what really drives these statistics. But then again, this whole thread is pointless. Its just a flamewar between the self righteous militant Athiests and the strange coalition of people (Religious and non-religious) that feel the need to fight them. Organized religion controls hypergamy; Isn't Hypergamy Unchained the root of all our problems?

Quote: (05-29-2013 06:46 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

Even so, I would expect the religious make up of the prisons any nation to be roughly the same as you would find outside.

You would be wrong.

Religious people are in jail way more often.

Probably related to the dumbness factor.

But just hamster on, guys. I'm off to sleep.

Quote: (05-29-2013 05:09 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

What you two are missing is what moves a person to think it a good policy to eradicate his enemies? Not simply subdue, but to ERADICATE, be it heretics, jews or kulaks?

Christians have definitely wiped out tons and tons of people.

Australia and the Americas were the victims of crazy amounts of genocide based largely on the idea that non-christians were sub-human. Christians perpetrated slavery in the Americas.

Muslims currently call for death to Atheists in their own countries, and most in the world believe in the death penalty for people who convert away from Islam.

Jews in Israel are maintaining an Apartheid state against Muslims because they believe crazy stories about some piece of earth being promised to them by some fictional character. The atrocities the Israelis perpetrate on Palestinians are completely outrageous. But they think that some piece of land is "theirs" and therefore they can kill and exclude people from it because "God" said so.

Sure there are evil people all over the world. Some are Atheists.

But it seems to me much more evil, on a much grander scale, has been perpetrated in the name of God. The Christian God, in the last 500 years or so, has been a particularly violent inspiration for the conquering and subjugation of people all around the world. But the holiness of one's cause has always been a rallying cry for the typical rape and pillage type thing.

Seriously. All the white people in North America who feel like this is "their" country that is being taken away by immigrants are insane. This country is only majority white because of hundreds of years of genocide visited upon its native inhabitants, partially in the name of God.

Quote: (05-29-2013 08:51 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Quote: (05-29-2013 05:09 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

What you two are missing is what moves a person to think it a good policy to eradicate his enemies? Not simply subdue, but to ERADICATE, be it heretics, jews or kulaks?

Christians have definitely wiped out tons and tons of people.

Australia and the Americas were the victims of crazy amounts of genocide based largely on the idea that non-christians were sub-human. Christians perpetrated slavery in the Americas.

Muslims currently call for death to Atheists in their own countries, and most in the world believe in the death penalty for people who convert away from Islam.

Jews in Israel are maintaining an Apartheid state against Muslims because they believe crazy stories about some piece of earth being promised to them by some fictional character. The atrocities the Israelis perpetrate on Palestinians are completely outrageous. But they think that some piece of land is "theirs" and therefore they can kill and exclude people from it because "God" said so.

Sure there are evil people all over the world. Some are Atheists.

But it seems to me much more evil, on a much grander scale, has been perpetrated in the name of God. The Christian God, in the last 500 years or so, has been a particularly violent inspiration for the conquering and subjugation of people all around the world. But the holiness of one's cause has always been a rallying cry for the typical rape and pillage type thing.

Seriously. All the white people in North America who feel like this is "their" country that is being taken away by immigrants are insane. This country is only majority white because of hundreds of years of genocide visited upon its native inhabitants, partially in the name of God.

Thing is, white people have been conquering and slaughtering other tribes and races long before Christianity came along. They use Christ's name in vain but they would have done the same thing even if they were atheists.

Fact of the matter is, no where in the New Testament is there a call for violence.

Atheism is over-rated. I believe it started becoming trendy in the early 90s.

Quote: (05-29-2013 11:17 PM)AlbertoDelMuerto Wrote:  

Atheism is over-rated. I believe it started becoming trendy in the early 90s.

Yeah, I guess Christianity is pretty over-rated too, I believe it started becoming trendy like in the early 100s.

Seriously though, Atheism is a legitimate ideology, not some pseudo-intellectual hipster counterculture bullshit, even if it appears as such by the ignorant.

Quote: (05-29-2013 11:48 PM)TheBlackNarwhal Wrote:  

Quote: (05-29-2013 11:17 PM)AlbertoDelMuerto Wrote:  

Atheism is over-rated. I believe it started becoming trendy in the early 90s.

Yeah, I guess Christianity is pretty over-rated too, I believe it started becoming trendy like in the early 100s.

I ain't gonna defend any religions on here. I'm not religious, I just believe in god, that's all.

Quote: (05-29-2013 11:12 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Fact of the matter is, no where in the New Testament is there a call for violence.

Yeah, when it comes to violence, the new testament is mostly just god talking about how violent he is and how he destroy families by making family members hate each other, you know, all that good stuff. He also endorses the cruelties of the old testament...

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html

Each group will be defined to its detractors by their least flattering members.

There's plenty of bible thumping fools who use Christ as a tool of control and greed.

There's plenty of 20 something burnouts with their emphysema and inability to be happy blaming everything on Christians.

It all flows to "the undauntable thought", the one that says "I'm right"

Quote: (05-23-2013 09:42 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

Ha! I grew up in the Christian church and have done my research, which is why I have the beliefs that I do. I took mission trips to Mexico to build houses with the church, went to church camp every summer, and my father goes to church 3-4 days a week, you know how many countless amount of hours I've spent in a church?

Well to be fair, the things you mention dont at all imply that you understand anything beyond basic Christian theology. Plenty of people (the majority if anything) take solace in simply following a religion and doing "good deeds (ex: building houses in mexico) " without really spending time thinking about all the things that religion talks about in detail.

Quote: (05-23-2013 09:42 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

If the bible isn't literal, then what makes you say that John 3:16 isn't a sham?

Looking at the Bible in it's entirety, it's easy to see that it cant be all literal considering that it includes genres of writing such as poetry.

If one were to understand Hebrew and Greek and have a basic grounding in interpretation of Jewish texts (which is really a requirement to be taken seriously on any professional level concerning Christian theology) then the idea that the Bible is all to be taken literally is just crazy talk.

Quote: (05-30-2013 12:13 AM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

Quote: (05-29-2013 11:12 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Fact of the matter is, no where in the New Testament is there a call for violence.

Yeah, when it comes to violence, the new testament is mostly just god talking about how violent he is and how he destroy families by making family members hate each other, you know, all that good stuff. He also endorses the cruelties of the old testament...

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html

In Christianity violence is carried out by God. In Islam violence is carried out by the followers.

I stand by my original statement. "Hating" does not qualify as violence.

Part of the disagreement in this thread is the result of Atheism and Christianity, Islam and Judaism being different in our countries. The groups have different rules and traditions, and attract different people.

Atheism in the US:

Surprisingly, the default in the United States is still religious belief. It plays a very big role in every day life and public perception. While most people don't go to church that often, religion is a very big theme in media and politics. It affects people, e.g. the anti homosexuality sentiment, which is also common on this forum.

Consequently, atheists in the US are often people that were once religious and got burned. The outcasts, the weirdos, the too-smart-for-their-own-goods that did not fit in the local religious community. As a result, you guys see many atheists as being the socially awkward deviants.

Atheism in Western and Northern Europe:

In contrast, the default over here is a lack of religious belief. It just doesn't play that much of a role. Normal people are non-religious and don't care about it, most educated people are interested in it as an anthropological curiosity. The religious groups are seen as backwards. However, while the intellectual basis for religion is laughed at, the value of traditional mores is appreciated by many.

In America, an atheist is the snarky, fat, feminist skeptic blogger that says fuck five times a sentence.

In Europe, an atheist is Aristotle, Nietzsche, Schoppenhauer and those hot chicks over there.

don't know. believing in god helps the economy:

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/fashi...thers.html

Meh all your abrahamic religions are hateful and destructive, even their philosophy and golden ages required knowledge from the East, Atheism has been around in Hinduism and Buddhism since time began