I was in China for around 10 days this month, split between Shanghai and Beijing.
Starting off with some things that are common to both places, and then I will elaborate on my experiences in each.

Girls - I have to say I'm not impressed. If 5 is the world average, then in China the average quality of girls I saw is probably around 4-4.5. Definitely not anything like Russia where it's more like 7.
There were some cuties of course, which is inevitable with so many people in one place, and every now and then some real hotties but they were mostly wearing Gucci bags and Prada shoes so it's likely that the local ballers quickly stake their claims.

Sightseeing - if this is your thing, there is certainly a lot to see there, especially in Beijing. Shanghai is more skyscrapers, malls, shopping, etc. I was there on business, with the plus being everything was company-paid, but the drawback was I couldn't party really late because I had presentations and workshops every day, and I also couldn't day game.

Cost - hotels, meals at nice restaurants, and drinks at nice bars were definitely at western levels. If you have a local guide there are probably places where it's much cheaper. But without knowing Chinese - forget it, you are stuck with the expat places and have to pay like one. If you want a break from the Chinese food and crave a small Western-style snack, a goddamn Snickers bar is like $2-3 at the supermarket, so 2-3x the Europe/US price. I guess the Party protects local manufacturers by imposing steep duties on everything imported.
Taxis were cheap, though. But no English is spoken, I rode a cab at least 10 times and not even one cabbie could say even Hi or Bye in English. You have to hand them the address written in Chinese, otherwise no deal. They may try to screw you by driving around the block to inflate the bill. Also if your destination is too close, they may refuse to pick you up.

Shanghai
Obviously, I can't make this a full datasheet because this is a city of 30 million people. Quite a few countries that Roosh visited over the last year, like Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, Finland, etc. combined would still be smaller than just this one city.
Someone said that a freshly arrived foreigner trying to discover Shanghai is like a blind man trying to feel up an elephant, and then have to describe it. I can't do that, of course, but will just share impressions from the two week nights and one Friday afternoon that I did go out.
All girls I met fell into one of the following three categories:
- Local girls who did not speak English
- Local girls who spoke some English but were scammers, hookers, or the like
- Foreign girls who spoke English but were in a large group of co-workers, co-students, etc. so the cock-block was always swift

There is mainly one area that I went out at night because it was close to my hotel, Hong Mei pedestrian street, also called 101 Lao-wei (foreigner). There is a Beer Stube, a French Cafe, and around 20 more places like this. Not really crowded during the week nights, and could not pick up any girls, not for lack of trying.
On Friday afternoon I had some time off work so I went to the main drag, Nanjing Street with also lots of shops, bars, etc. There is also a viewing terrace near the river where large crowds also hang out so you can do some daygaming there. A lot of scammer girls there who approach you, I was careful to avoid those but almost fell into the trap of one whom I approached. She was so convincing in playing the role of a student girl out to have some fun that I even walked with her for a couple blocks until she stepped into this tea house with no price list and no other customers in it and said let's get something to drink, I was out of there with a quickness.
So perhaps you need to be in with a local, or have time to daygame, or more time to stay late at night at the clubs in order to get laid in Shanghai. I had to go to the massage parlour to see some action.

Beijing
This was way more fun, I have to say. There is an area of bars called San-Li-Tun, just avoid the main drag which has all kinds of tourist traps and scams, and go one block to the west - that street has a lot more fun places. A nice hole-in-the-wall place is Smugglers where drinks were really cheap, like 10 yuan rail, 15 mid, and 20 yuan top shelf. This is around $2-3. As a comparison, in Shanghai at a nice bar a local beer was 40 yuan. So I socialized with some people there and later we went to Kokomo's which is on a rooftop and was pretty full of an international crowd. There are also a couple of other places like that on this same street, through the door I could see a nice crowd, no cover, and drinks were 20-30 in all of them.
So that night I stayed out till closing time which was 4 or 5am depending on the bar and almost got laid my first night in Beijing. Talked to many girls but this one (Chinese, around 7 which is hot for there) stayed when the bar closed and we went for another drink downstairs where there is a gay bar, or let's call it a mixed-gender bar to be PC. This provides a lot of fun conversational material like "do you see these two girls making out - would you make out with a girl" - "perhaps - and would you make out with this ladyboy there" - "no, but I'd let him such my cock" and other stuff like that which she found hilarious and was ready to go my hotel (you get brownie points when you flash to a local girl your hotel keycard if it is from a large western chain hotel) but then started acting out weirdly, coming accross like a nutcase. The culmination was she insisted that when we fuck I should call her boss and she said "call me boss or I'll leave" - what could I say but "leave then, bitch, I ain't calling noone boss". The guys we were drinking with said I was stupid to let her go but I think I would have some bad karma forthcoming if I let some broad treat me with disrespect just to stick it in her pussy.
Plus, she was wasted and could have puked on my bed or passed out.
Anyway, this was a fun night, I tried to go there again on Monday but unfortunately it was not a party night, apparently, and I also had to work the next day of course, so I just had a couple of beers at the different bars and went home.

Verdict:
Shanghai - would not like to go again unless on business.
Bejing - would like the chance to go again, seems like a fun place to party, and there are a lot of historical sites and culture to explore if you are into that.

ive been looking into relocating to china(teach english) and i have been researching things as much as i can.

obviously the girl situation is a major factor along with wanting the cultural experience of living in china which is the reason i want to leave LA for asia.

from what ive researched you need to know some chinese to make approaches to get with chicks there just because so few know english. however i think if you were to live there or did more pipelining before hand you could find chicks that speak english. also even if your mandarin sucks the fact that your a foreigner(white ideally) many chinese girls will think your rich, exotic, attractive and will want to fuck/date you.

i also want to say a thank you to many other posters on this forum who wrote about their experiences living and traveling to china as its helped me make a unbiased decision on the pros and cons of moving there.

i am about 90% sure i will be living in china fall 2013 and plan on studying mandarin in my free time in the months before i go.

Quote: (12-14-2012 11:57 AM)bacon Wrote:  

the fact that your a foreigner(white ideally) many chinese girls will think your rich, exotic, attractive and will want to fuck/date you.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The amount of money flowing around there is crazy, and a foreigner is by no means special.
In front of the hotel I stayed in Shanghai there were parked 2 Bentleys, 1 Lamborghini, and quite a few lesser cars that I've still seen on our forum's dream ride thread. And this was the Hilton - not by any stretch the most expensive hotel in town.

To get that effect you need to be in the types of cities that Vorkuta has talked about, small cities where a foreigner is a celebrity.

I'm living in a second tier city now, and as a foreigner I get stared at all the time. A lot of the foreign guys have Chinese girlfriends. Places like Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong see a lot of foreigners. If you're working as a teacher you aren't going to be making enough money to really show off in those cities.

The English teachers in my city make about twice the amount their Chinese counterparts make, their apartments are paid for, really the only mandatory part of their budget is food. They have money to flash around and do so, often excessively (I've been here for 4 months and I've heard way too many guys complaining about being broke).

Learning Mandarin is a total bitch. Let no one tell you otherwise. If you've never studied a tonal language before you're in for a shock. A lot of foreigners I've met here said they originally planned on learning Mandarin when they first came, but then settled into easy mode and only know a few phrases and words, picking up something new from time to time.

yea ive been studying it for the last 2 days and im starting to realize this might be more difficult than i am willing to work for. i just read that the state department says you need 2100 hours to become fluent.

I'd believe it. It's on the list of difficult languages to learn for a reason. That being said, it's a valuable skill to have.

There are some great resources out there however. What have you been using to study?

Shanghai and Beijing are expensive except for taxis and local food.

As an English teacher you will still make much more than a college grad with a real job.

You can definitely get laid without speaking mandarin, however no mandarin combined with not living there/quick trip= probably not getting laid.

China becomes more and more expensive every year, especially the east coast. They recently shut down Open VPN that only leaves a couple of other possible options to connect to a VPN (so i'm told, not a tech guy).

Made getting a travel Visa harder, now you must have a sponsor, we'll see if it is enforced.

Place is getting worse not better.

All you need is someone to invite you to get a visa. I sent a letter that said pretty much said, "Hey my name is so and so, I'm inviting this person to China. Here's my email address."

VPN's can be tricky, you have to set them up outside the country as they're blocked once you get in. The only way to get a VPN once you're here is to use a VPN. Go figure. I have one on my laptop and on my iPad, I'm going to get one on my phone next week (whenever my phone arrives).

China is going to be a westernized country in 20 years. The younger generation thinks McDonald's and KFC are the best places to bring a date. They love western music and movies - Twilight and Justin Beiber are just as popular as back home. It's the height of cool for them to have an iPhone, play Angry Birds and dance badly to Gangnam Style. Not to mention they all want to learn English. When they come of age, they'll be more "American" than real Americans.

Thanks for the input on the letter, the other statements were pretty ridiculous.

I assure you they will not be more American than Americans. They are Chinese, and proud of it.

Westernized in 20 years? So in 20 years China will adopt Western law, politics, language, diet, lifestyle, economics, religion, philosophy, and value system? You might want to rethink that statement.

I eat burritos and listen to salsa music but guess what? That doesn't make me a Mexican or Latino or have their value system.

I don't remember Pikachu turning a generation of Americans into Japanese.

Just bc a Chinese person eats a hamburger it doesn't mean jack crap. 20 year olds trying to get pussy at KFC doesn't trump thousands of years of culture and values.

The second there is a geopolitical event vs the US like the Spratly Islands, Scarborough Shoal, Diaoyu/Senaka Islands, or whatever, they will hate Americans bc they will be told to, and the sheep will follow orders.

Just like they have been taught to hate Japanese bc of the WWII atrocities but oddly give Mao a pass on even more atrocities. They were taught to hate one and love the other and they did.

But now after 35+ yrs of Mao's death the Chinese have found the courage and insight to admit "He made some mistakes" (a couple of million dead in the Cultural Revolution & 30-50 million dead in the Great Leap Forward).

But Beiber and Angry Birds will transform their society...sure.

Quote: (12-19-2012 12:17 PM)redneckpunk Wrote:  

Westernized in 20 years?

I think that the brain structure of Asians is different than Europeans. And SE Asians is different again.

I doubt that even 5th generation Asians are ever completely westernized. Some of our differences are biological. It's going to be difficult to tease out what is biological and what is cultural, as people with like proclivities band together to form societies, but I think we'll find differences in creative lateral thinking, desire to fit into a group, and response to peer pressure as some stand outs.

Osiris do you know the max amount of time that a Tourist Visa allows you to stay in China as a tourist?

Also, how is your Mandarin level?

I'm going to Beijing again this Saturday and will stay until next Friday March-30 so if any like-minded dudes are an in the area and want to joint forces let me know.

Quote: (12-19-2012 12:17 PM)redneckpunk Wrote:  

But now after 35+ yrs of Mao's death the Chinese have found the courage and insight to admit "He made some mistakes" (a couple of million dead in the Cultural Revolution & 30-50 million dead in the Great Leap Forward).

This reminds me of a conversation I had with one of my exes (she was from China).

Somewhere in the conversation I ended up comparing Mao Zedong to Stalin and Hitler (can't remember what brought it up). She immediately objected to this.

I said "well, the Great Leap Foward and the Cultural Revolution...how many people died from that? Fifty million?"

"Well...yeah, of course he made some mistakes. Everyone knows about that."

I said "fifty or so million people dead? Isn't that a bit more than just a few mistakes?"

Cue the descent into crazyland. "He...he tought us how to kill the Japanese! Do you think it was OKAY for the Japanese to enslave us during the war and to rape all our women and kill our babies (*I'm paraphrasing here)!? DＯ YOU!!?"

I just let it be then. I guess fighting Japanese imperialism makes it okay to turn around and kill off your population with the worst famine in human history。 Since then I've decided I'm not getting into anything long-term with girls who utter these kinds of batshit insane political statements. If she's Chinese and I hear her talking about Mao Zedong being a great guy or some crap about how "Japan and the Japanese are EVIL", I'll drop her.

Quote: (12-20-2012 09:26 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

Osiris do you know the max amount of time that a Tourist Visa allows you to stay in China as a tourist?

usually it's 30 days, but it can be renewed inside china under certain circumstances (though i don't know what that would be as I have never tried)
however, it is up to the embassy staff whether they believe you're just a tourist, or trying to illegaly teach english. during important chinese events (e.g. olympics) they could very well issue visas which only last as short as 7 days.
either way, you can always take a train/bus/plane to hong kong/macau, apply for a new visa (they even have express service in case you don't want to spend the night) and reenter china on your new visa

edit: just saw that your post is a couple month old, but i'm just gonna leave this as it is in case anyone else is interested

Quote: (12-14-2012 10:01 AM)K-man Wrote:  

Girls - I have to say I'm not impressed. If 5 is the world average, then in China the average quality of girls I saw is probably around 4-4.5. Definitely not anything like Russia where it's more like 7.
There were some cuties of course, which is inevitable with so many people in one place, and every now and then some real hotties but they were mostly wearing Gucci bags and Prada shoes so it's likely that the local ballers quickly stake their claims.

Maybe this is just a matter of preference. In general I was pleased with overall attractiveness of the women in China, but one thing that bothered me was how many of them have absolutely no taste and no sense of fashion, whatsoever. Some of them wear the tackiest clothing you can possibly imagine. Before going to China, I had never thought I could actually be turned off by a woman just because of how poorly she dressed. It causes a similar cringe as those old pictures you find of people from the early nineties where you think..."sheesh, what the fuck was he/she thinking? How could anyone think that looked cool?" Of course, not all of them are like that, but it's definitely something I encountered a lot.

Quote: (03-18-2013 11:06 AM)Sargon of Akkad Wrote:  

Cue the descent into crazyland. "He...he tought us how to kill the Japanese! Do you think it was OKAY for the Japanese to enslave us during the war and to rape all our women and kill our babies (*I'm paraphrasing here)!? DＯ YOU!!?"

I just let it be then. I guess fighting Japanese imperialism makes it okay to turn around and kill off your population with the worst famine in human history。 Since then I've decided I'm not getting into anything long-term with girls who utter these kinds of batshit insane political statements. If she's Chinese and I hear her talking about Mao Zedong being a great guy or some crap about how "Japan and the Japanese are EVIL", I'll drop her.

That's one of the few things I like about the Chinese.

They hold a fucking grudge for a long time.

Wish the US was more like that.

The hate Japan thing is in 90% of them. Last fall kids had to go into school on Saturday and Sunday so they could attend a special "fuck Japan" class for two days.

Last week my students had the word "intolerant" as part of their vocab. I asked them if they knew anyone who was intolerant, they all said no. Then I asked if they thought they were intolerant of Japanese people. They all responded no. I was pretty sure they didn't understand the word or they were blind to their own prejudices, when one girl clarified that they weren't intolerant, because that means you don't like people because they're different. Japanese aren't people, so they don't count.

My mind was blown, that's not even racist, that's how genocide starts.

I've had random people come up to me on the street with their phone where they've translated something like "Diayou islands are historic Chinese area. You agree?"

He'll, one guy I know got 100rmb for shouting, "Fuck Japan!", from a drunk Chinese dude outside a club.

I tried explaining to a friend that back in the states we view China and Japan as pretty similar. They look similar, they use chopsticks, eat rice and noodles, use the same script, have famous martial arts, etc... That conversation did not go well.

Quote:Quote:

The hate Japan thing is in 90% of them.

That's a bit exagerated, I think. While the people who foam at the mouths at Japan aren't uncommon, most Chinese I've talked to on the subject were more only on the neutral to slightly negative side.

I've also encountered quite a few Chinese japanophiles. For example, I dated a girl in Beijing who had majored in Japanese and was definitely a fan of the language (her email address even featured the Japanese pronunciation of her name instread of the Chinese one). Even the crazy ex mentioned above would listen to J-pop.

Last year, I also attended a lecture on Sino-Japanese Relations by a guest professor from Peking University. I don't know where to verify this, but he showed us a servey on Chinese popular opinion on Japan by age. Supposedly, among Chinese people in their teens (can't remember exactly which ages, something like 15-19?, or 15-25??) there was a generally positive view of Japan (supposedly due to the influence of manga and other forms of Japanese pop-culture), while negative views toward Japan tended to flourish among middle aged people (something like 30s).

I've also encountered a guy who said he disliked Japan, but liked Japanese women. It seems the Chinese impression of Japanese women is dictated almost entirely by gravure idols and porn-stars. Some people think literally all Japanese women look like this...


Granted, Japanese women do tend to have a MUCH better sense of fashion than Chinese women, but then again that's not really difficult, considering what the average Chinese chic considers to be fashionable. There are also naive stereotypes about all Japanese women appeared in porn or how they all enjoyed being groped on subways.

Based on what I've seen and heard, Chinese sentiments toward Japan seem to be more mixed, especially among younger people. Still, the anti-Japan thing is there. Media, propaganda and education are mainly at fault. You can't turn on a TV in China and flip through the channels without coming across some sappy WWII drama featuring a Japanese officer twirling his mustache and cackling before shooting a group of Chinese women, children and old people in the face. Not saying that didn't happen, but shit, after 75 fucking years, it's time to calm the fuck down. Hardly anyone from either of those countries was even born when that happened.

For all those of you talking about China's relation with Japan, which also has a lot of similarities with Korea/Japan: this is a very good reading-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21226068

huh, I had a completely different experiences than the OP lol I guess my mistake was not avoiding the main strip in beijing, but I also went to another part of beijing with clubs instead of bars, still had more fun in shanghai... way too many scammers in beijing, shanghai is more modern and I didn't see any scammers, even had one of those rich guys inviting me to their table my 1st night out ha his frd took out a wad of cash and i was like WTF lol annnd they had models at their table

I will totally agree with the Chinese women having no fashion sense. Half the time I leave my apartment I see shit straight out of the 1980's and early 90's. Parachute pants, leopard print, side pony tails... Men here also dress like their inspiration was Purple Rain. Most dudes won't go to the club without hitting up a hair salon first and wear pants so tight you wonder how they can even walk.

I'm trapped in a perpetual fashion nightmare.

I remember I once chatted some girl up in a coffee shop and got her number. The way she was dressed then (normal: plain tank top and short jeans), I thought she looked stunning. A couple days later, we met and she was wearing this pink outfit that literally looked like it was inspired by this...



...Just a bit tackier. I had to stop my jaw from falling to the floor. My initial thought was "WTF are you wearing!?"

The tackiness of Chinese women's fashion was even amplified by the large numbers of South Korean exchange students walking around where I was studying. As a general rule, the Korean students (male and female) probably took better care of their appearance than any other nationality I've seen to date. Seeing a group of S. Korean students walk by was often like passing an army of supermodels.

i saw a mid 20s girl wearing a panda onesie

I believe it. I also want to know where to get one, for uh... Reasons that shall not be named.

This lack of fashion sense explains a lot. It's been a long struggle for me to up the fashion game of my LTR. You would think with all the Korean soap operas they watch that they'd emulate K-girl fashion (which is amazing), but I guess not.