http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0...36,00.html

Good post Baller - what are your thoughts on this article?

Read this and understand it fellas. Remeber though, it's not about what WE think is right and wrong over there, its about cultural relevance. Try and take this area's history into account and not just judge what the media reports. which is an accurate, but shallow view of what is going on.

As primarily Westerners on this forum, we tend to remark on things like Russian hate crimes, because we can put a white or black. Muslim or Christian tag on it. Remove the equations that might spike emotion and look at geography and history in Russia and the former Soviet Union. Look at poverty in relationship to non Russian immigration and competition for jobs. It is not the same as Mexican / US relationship at all.

Just my 2 cents, as I'm sure this will create a nice post count.

Quote: (12-15-2010 02:56 PM)Rocco81 Wrote:  

Good post Baller - what are your thoughts on this article?

Read this and understand it fellas. Remeber though, it's not about what WE think is right and wrong over there, its about cultural relevance. Try and take this area's history into account and not just judge what the media reports. which is an accurate, but shallow view of what is going on.

As primarily Westerners on this forum, we tend to remark on things like Russian hate crimes, because we can put a white or black. Muslim or Christian tag on it. Remove the equations that might spike emotion and look at geography and history in Russia and the former Soviet Union. Look at poverty in relationship to non Russian immigration and competition for jobs. It is not the same as Mexican / US relationship at all.

Just my 2 cents, as I'm sure this will create a nice post count.

I think I'm keeping my latin suntanned ass in Ukraine, and forget Russia. I'll head down to brighton beach, at least in NYC, I got my Brooklyn boys to back me up on my own turf if shit goes down.

Mixx

nice post.....strategically dumb by Putin to flame this shit...India, China, Brazil, even africa are blowing up and all this does is drive investors/business owners away...

Quote: (12-15-2010 03:09 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

Quote: (12-15-2010 02:56 PM)Rocco81 Wrote:  

Good post Baller - what are your thoughts on this article?

Read this and understand it fellas. Remeber though, it's not about what WE think is right and wrong over there, its about cultural relevance. Try and take this area's history into account and not just judge what the media reports. which is an accurate, but shallow view of what is going on.

As primarily Westerners on this forum, we tend to remark on things like Russian hate crimes, because we can put a white or black. Muslim or Christian tag on it. Remove the equations that might spike emotion and look at geography and history in Russia and the former Soviet Union. Look at poverty in relationship to non Russian immigration and competition for jobs. It is not the same as Mexican / US relationship at all.

Just my 2 cents, as I'm sure this will create a nice post count.

I think I'm keeping my latin suntanned ass in Ukraine, and forget Russia. I'll head down to brighton beach, at least in NYC, I got my Brooklyn boys to back me up on my own turf if shit goes down.

Mixx

Mixx, Im with you man! Ive always wanted to check out russia ever since I smashed this REAL hot russian chick from the Rhino in Vegas but theres no way Im taking my ass over there now. Im bi racial so I look kind of racially ambiguous so I could probably fit the box of any number of people those dudes want to kill. Im a big guy but Im not that damn big. Guess Ive just got to find them elsewhere.

*sigh*

I wish people would put this into perspective too. There is a growing problem in Russia with migrants. They work for peanuts, and in a country where wages are already low and cost of living high, its the difference between eating and not eating for some. They tend to come from Gerogia and what the Russians call "The Caucasus". They also have a reputation for crime and rape. The riots are based on that

Quote:Quote:

The pretext for the coming demonstration, like the one that sparked Saturday's riot, is the murder of Yegor Sviridov, a 28-year-old Russian killed in a street brawl with a group of men from the Caucasus on Dec. 6. Sviridov was a member of a fan club for Moscow's leading soccer team, Spartak, and his death has galvanized Russia's huge community of soccer fanatics, many of whom are also involved in the nationalist movement. At Saturday's rally, and at several previous ones calling for justice in the Sviridov case, the soccer fans made up the bulk of the crowd yelling racist chants.

This is not the USA where you all sit and talk about a growing migrant problem for 20 years while the government does nothing about it, instead giving them free healthcare. The people there will react as they are doing now. People from the caucasus have a distinct look about them.

Still, best if you probably stay away in the mean time.

Also, dont you just love how they label it race riots? Not anti immigration riots, no no, RACE RIOTS.

Whoremonger, it seems like you frequently try to downplay the racist attitudes and behavior of Russians. I hope I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that under the surface, you sympathize with them.

Now that they were awarded the World Cup, we're going to see more and more of these stories brought to light.

Quote: (12-15-2010 09:20 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Whoremonger, it seems like you frequently try to downplay the racist attitudes and behavior of Russians. I hope I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that under the surface, you sympathize with them.

Now that they were awarded the World Cup, we're going to see more and more of these stories brought to light.

x2

Hmmm.....Skinheads........Racist Slogans.......YEAH that's a race riot.

Whoremonger, I know what you're trying to say, but I'm going to have to call it like I see it. These Russian skinheads have a mission -- kill enough non-whites and "the fear" of being attacked by skinheads will keep more of us untermenschen out of Mother Russia.

I know of several stories where Chinese and Korean exchange students were violently attacked and killed by skinheads. One of them was set on fire. Another was walking out of a shopping mall in broad daylight when skinheads jumped him, slit his throat like a pig, and left him to bleed to death on the sidewalk.

Chinese and Korean exchange students don't exactly have a reputation for crime & rape -- and it doesn't take a genius to tell them apart from immigrants from the Caucasus.

There's a pretty strong xenophobic streak in Russians, and that's clearly manifesting itself in violently racist acts. No Ifs or Buts about it.

Quote: (12-15-2010 08:32 PM)Whoremonger Wrote:  

*sigh*

I wish people would put this into perspective too. There is a growing problem in Russia with migrants. They work for peanuts, and in a country where wages are already low and cost of living high, its the difference between eating and not eating for some. They tend to come from Gerogia and what the Russians call "The Caucasus". They also have a reputation for crime and rape. The riots are based on that

Quote:Quote:

The pretext for the coming demonstration, like the one that sparked Saturday's riot, is the murder of Yegor Sviridov, a 28-year-old Russian killed in a street brawl with a group of men from the Caucasus on Dec. 6. Sviridov was a member of a fan club for Moscow's leading soccer team, Spartak, and his death has galvanized Russia's huge community of soccer fanatics, many of whom are also involved in the nationalist movement. At Saturday's rally, and at several previous ones calling for justice in the Sviridov case, the soccer fans made up the bulk of the crowd yelling racist chants.

This is not the USA where you all sit and talk about a growing migrant problem for 20 years while the government does nothing about it, instead giving them free healthcare. The people there will react as they are doing now. People from the caucasus have a distinct look about them.

Still, best if you probably stay away in the mean time.

Also, dont you just love how they label it race riots? Not anti immigration riots, no no, RACE RIOTS.

I think 'xenophobic riots' is more accurate.

Your distinction between migrants and race doesn't make sense. It's largely the visible migrants (ie. race as the distinction) that recieve overt racism and violence. It's not limited to chechens, georgians....the is a very general sense of disgust towards every visible minority, including black americans.

Quote: (12-15-2010 09:20 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Whoremonger, it seems like you frequently try to downplay the racist attitudes and behavior of Russians. I hope I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that under the surface, you sympathize with them.

Now that they were awarded the World Cup, we're going to see more and more of these stories brought to light.

I dont downplay them, I accept them and I also TRY to understand them, even though I may not agree with it. Why is that so hard for you guys to understand? You have nothing but contempt for their intolerance, but at the same time are intolerant yourself. Its hypocritical. I find it ridculously arrogant of people to assume that western liberal thinking is the standard to which everyone should be held accountible. We may not agree with the Chinese view on freedom of speech, but they are a culture that has developed over thousands of years and they have over 1 billion people who live there. We may not agree with the approach the Russians take, but this is a region where people have been at war or enslaved for the last 1000 years. They dont get to view things through the rose tinted glasses you do, nor are they going to view things the way you do either. Who is to say you are right and they are wrong? Its ideological philosophy, nothing more.

I say this again, its not race alone thats driving this. You have people pouring across their borders that are not only taking jobs, but they are responsible for a crime wave. Mafia level crime is different in that its high level, and believe it or not those thugs bring safety to the streets too in a country where cops are in short supply. The anti immigrant stance that has come has come for that reason. Jobs being taken and violent petty crime increases that the government seems to be doing little about it. Russians are not going to sit back and take it up the arse while immigrants run amok, they are going to kick heads in. Now you may not like that or agree with it, but I understand and accept that its the way it is and that is how they are going to deal with it. One needs to ask exactly why the fuck they should even be expected to bend over backwards for minorities or illegal immigrants too. Why should their women live in fear and why should their kids go hungry in their own backyards?

I do sympathise with the Russians. I also sympathise with the Germans and Austrians who are having many of the same problems. I sympathise with the southern states in the USA where mexican immigration has caused its share of problems. I also sympathise with the immigrant, the vast majority who are only looking for a better life and a fair crack. 99% of them would be good people unfortunate enough to be born inthe wrong place. I dont agree with the approach either are taking or the way the locals are responding, but I am not about to condemn an entire country and people for the violent actions of a few either. Ill say it again, Russia educated African leaders and it funded the majority of the liberation movements in Africa too.

Quote: (12-16-2010 12:44 AM)Whoremonger Wrote:  

Who is to say you are right and they are wrong? Its ideological philosophy, nothing more.

Who is to say I'm right and they're wrong?? Well I would think we could all agree that slitting someone's throat in the street like a pig because of their skin color is wrong. But what do I know...

I'm not in favor of illegal immigration, but there are ways to address the problem without stomping people's brains out. Why don't you call these bastards out for what they are? They are thugs and murderers. If there were no immigrants there, they'd be fighting each other in vodka-driven fits of rage in bars. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsAk4dCeoK4

Quote: (12-15-2010 09:54 PM)subutai Wrote:  

Whoremonger, I know what you're trying to say, but I'm going to have to call it like I see it. These Russian skinheads have a mission -- kill enough non-whites and "the fear" of being attacked by skinheads will keep more of us untermenschen out of Mother Russia.

I know of several stories where Chinese and Korean exchange students were violently attacked and killed by skinheads. One of them was set on fire. Another was walking out of a shopping mall in broad daylight when skinheads jumped him, slit his throat like a pig, and left him to bleed to death on the sidewalk.

Chinese and Korean exchange students don't exactly have a reputation for crime & rape -- and it doesn't take a genius to tell them apart from immigrants from the Caucasus.

There's a pretty strong xenophobic streak in Russians, and that's clearly manifesting itself in violently racist acts. No Ifs or Buts about it.

FFS

You are talking about people who have been at each others throats for the last 1000 years. They have been at each other longer than the USA has even existed. Before there were borders. Cultures that have established themselves and are way older than western principle or culture. Again, these attacks are a MINORITY. You slate an entire country and people as racist because of the actions of a few.

Thats like a Russian thinking all African Americans are racist because of the Panthers. Or La Razza means all latinos are racist. Its fucking retarded and its absolute bullshit. Dont you see how god damned hyprocritical you guys are? You are guilty of the same god damned thing you accuse them of!

Of course there is a xenophobic streak in many Russians. Where the fuck did I say there was not? I have been clear when I said the vast majority have a strong sense of national pride and they take pride in being Russian. Russia and Russians come first.

The difference here is that a large portion of this forum is painting the whole of Russia as one big xenophobic, racist pit when Russian culture and views on race are DIFFERENT.

Jesus, Russia is more multicultural than the USA is. You think because they all look white or different shades of white they are the same ethnicity? An African American and a white American have more in common than two white guys from different parts of Russia at times.

My god, this is the reason why Americans develop the reputation they do. Arrogant, ignorant, close minded views that are based on no first hand experience whatsoever. The levels of ignorance here are astounding, and one would think that people as well traveled as you lot seem to be would be a little more understanding of the differences in culture and history.

There is a whole world out there besides the pussy fellas.

Quote: (12-16-2010 12:59 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Quote: (12-16-2010 12:44 AM)Whoremonger Wrote:  

Who is to say you are right and they are wrong? Its ideological philosophy, nothing more.

Who is to say I'm right and they're wrong?? Well I would think we could all agree that slitting someone's throat in the street like a pig because of their skin color is wrong. But what do I know...

I'm not in favor of illegal immigration, but there are ways to address the problem without stomping people's brains out. Why don't you call these bastards out for what they are? They are thugs and murderers. If there were no immigrants there, they'd be fighting each other in vodka-driven fits of rage in bars. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsAk4dCeoK4

I dont disagree with that at all, nor do I like it. I just accept that life in Russia is very different to life in the USA, and I also accept that its a minority there that does not represent the majority. The chances of your kids freezing because you lost your job are very slim. The chances of you having to worry about your sister being gang raped as the neighborhood changes is slim to none. I dont like what is happening, I just understand why its happening, and I realise its not all of them, even though they are all angry.

Dude, I come from Africa. Life outside the bliss of first world countries is different and its harsher. You have been wrapped in cotton wool most of your lives and the hardest gang bangers in the USA would get spat out in harsher places. You values are not their values, and again as much as we may disagree with that or find it distasteful, the reality is that we are arguing differences in ideological philosophy. We think its disgusting to stone women for adultery, Iranians think its just. Fuck, who is right here? I think we are and I believe that to my core, but who the hell am I to judge them?

Russians are not going to take it up the arse bro, and I would like to know why you believe they should. Quite simple. Its not in them too. They did not grow up sheltered like most western people do. The fact that you could be so arrogant to label them like you have when you dont have the slighest inkling of the place speaks volumes for your own arrogance on the matter.

Your own views of Russians I find offensive and racist. Your suggestion that they would be drunken louts in bars fighting each other if there were no foreigners to bash would be no different to some Noth Korean saying you would be picking cotton and illiterate still if the North never wanted to abolish slavery.

Quote: (12-16-2010 01:02 AM)Whoremonger Wrote:  

Quote: (12-15-2010 09:54 PM)subutai Wrote:  

Whoremonger, I know what you're trying to say, but I'm going to have to call it like I see it. These Russian skinheads have a mission -- kill enough non-whites and "the fear" of being attacked by skinheads will keep more of us untermenschen out of Mother Russia.

I know of several stories where Chinese and Korean exchange students were violently attacked and killed by skinheads. One of them was set on fire. Another was walking out of a shopping mall in broad daylight when skinheads jumped him, slit his throat like a pig, and left him to bleed to death on the sidewalk.

Chinese and Korean exchange students don't exactly have a reputation for crime & rape -- and it doesn't take a genius to tell them apart from immigrants from the Caucasus.

There's a pretty strong xenophobic streak in Russians, and that's clearly manifesting itself in violently racist acts. No Ifs or Buts about it.

FFS

You are talking about people who have been at each others throats for the last 1000 years. They have been at each other longer than the USA has even existed. Before there were borders. Cultures that have established themselves and are way older than western principle or culture. Again, these attacks are a MINORITY. You slate an entire country and people as racist because of the actions of a few.

Thats like a Russian thinking all African Americans are racist because of the Panthers. Or La Razza means all latinos are racist. Its fucking retarded and its absolute bullshit. Dont you see how god damned hyprocritical you guys are? You are guilty of the same god damned thing you accuse them of!

Of course there is a xenophobic streak in many Russians. Where the fuck did I say there was not? I have been clear when I said the vast majority have a strong sense of national pride and they take pride in being Russian. Russia and Russians come first.

The difference here is that a large portion of this forum is painting the whole of Russia as one big xenophobic, racist pit when Russian culture and views on race are DIFFERENT.

Jesus, Russia is more multicultural than the USA is. You think because they all look white or different shades of white they are the same ethnicity? An African American and a white American have more in common than two white guys from different parts of Russia at times.

My god, this is the reason why Americans develop the reputation they do. Arrogant, ignorant, close minded views that are based on no first hand experience whatsoever. The levels of ignorance here are astounding, and one would think that people as well traveled as you lot seem to be would be a little more understanding of the differences in culture and history.

There is a whole world out there besides the pussy fellas.

Well, first of all, I lived out in that region for over 4 years and have dated Russian women. My boxing gym was also composed of 95% young Russian men, so it's not like I'm making judgments based off Youtube videos. You?

What I can tell you is that the guys I most often had to rumble with, or at least, got into extremely nasty confrontations with, were Russian guys. And it was solely because I was a non-white guy, who was usually with an attractive Russian/European woman hanging off my arms.

Are all Russians skinheads out to gang up on immigrants? Of course not. But this entire SITE is based on generalizations based on personal experiences in case you haven't noticed and people are bound to shoot from the hip sometimes.

Stop being so sensitive. I think your letting personal political inclinations get the better of you.

What personal political inclinations? If you are trying to say something, say it. Lets not beat around the bush here. Its about the last string you have left in your bow it seems, so you might as well use it. Man I tell you one thing, feminists have a habit of shaming men with labels in an aim to attack the credibility and entire opinion of others. Seems to be the default position many take on this forum too. Instant cries of racism the minute someone calls them on their shit. Its weak.

Fucking pathetic really. I actually feel sorry for a lot of you guys. You base decisions and actions on race and it consumes you. Where you want to see it you will see it, even when its not there. Its called a hang up, and it points right back to the comments I made before about the chip on the shoulder so many of you have.

Believe what you all want to believe about Russia! As a person who has traveled there a lot, and with black and portugeuse friends I might add on more than one occasion, all I can offer are my views based on my own experiences and long standing interest in the place that extends past just trying to get laid there.

The skinheads have won from the looks of it. Stick to Sweden boys! Global Baller promises you will get your dick sucked in customs, and Rudeboy says you can organise threesomes at the local gas station

You're paranoid dude. Your political inclinations are that you sympathize with the Russia for Russians point of view. That's cool -- I can understand that.

But you'll have to forgive me if your GENERALIZATIONS based on the experiences of your "black and Portuguese friends" don't jive with my own personal experiences.

Just have to agree to disagree. Relax man. You sound stressed out -- I've had a tough month too.

Quote: (12-16-2010 01:15 AM)Whoremonger Wrote:  

Your own views of Russians I find offensive and racist.

Interesting that you find my words about Russians to be offensive, but Russians kicking in the heads of central Asians, well...we just have to try and understand their angst.

Quote: (12-15-2010 02:06 PM)Global Baller Wrote:  

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0...36,00.html

There was a much larger scale event yesterday. As many as 800-1200 people were actually arrested, which is very unusual for Moscow (typically what happens in such cases is the cops pick a guy up, kick his ass or beat shit out of him, depending on circumstances, and tell him to go home). At this moment I wouldn't suggest anyone to go to Russia; I wouldn't even go myself. The situation is quite unpredictable now.

Quote: (12-15-2010 11:37 PM)Luckystar Wrote:  

I think 'xenophobic riots' is more accurate.

This is true, as well as it is correct to call it anti-migrant riots. In this case it covers not only migrants from ex-USSR republics, but also migrants from other parts of Russia as well, who are Russian citizens. The roots of the problem are very similar to those in Western Europe, and it resembles very close what happened in France a few years ago.

Quote: (12-16-2010 12:44 AM)Whoremonger Wrote:  

Quote: (12-15-2010 09:20 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Whoremonger, it seems like you frequently try to downplay the racist attitudes and behavior of Russians. I hope I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that under the surface, you sympathize with them.

Now that they were awarded the World Cup, we're going to see more and more of these stories brought to light.

One needs to ask exactly why the fuck they should even be expected to bend over backwards for minorities or illegal immigrants too.

I mean, I wouldn't ask for them to bend over backwards for minorities or illegal immigrants. I'm not campaigning for the establishment of some massive welfare state for non-russians in russia or anything like that.

All I'd really ask is that they don't slit their throats for being non-white. No need to love them or welcome them with open arms and undeserved cash/welfare, but could you not hunt them down on the streets and beat/kill them like dogs simply because of their ethnicity?

That'd be cool with me, and I think its not unfair to expect, ESPECIALLY since they'll be hosting a World Cup in the not too distant future.

Yep, it would also be fantastic if they could feed all their war vetrans, look after the aged, cure cancer, start speaking english already and change their constitution to one that resembles the US constitution. It would be fantastic if their government had the resources to do things in the way you and I prefer. You know, cos it would be the right thing to do based on our view of the world. It would be super awesome if the Russians would just be patient while they lose their jobs, get attacked on their own streets and hear story after story of their women being raped while they solve these problems without resorting to violence. Man, the bastards need to be patient man!

Amazing that the world makes a massive deal about Russian retaliation, but not the onslaught they have been under for the last 10-15 years. I guess white on black violence will always be more newsworthy, just the way the world works these days. The crazy thing is that the people being attacked would be classified as white by you guys. I mean look at them.

Here, some Georgian chicks for you.




Typical Georgian man

Quote: (12-16-2010 03:00 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

Quote: (12-15-2010 11:37 PM)Luckystar Wrote:  

I think 'xenophobic riots' is more accurate.

This is true, as well as it is correct to call it anti-migrant riots. In this case it covers not only migrants from ex-USSR republics, but also migrants from other parts of Russia as well, who are Russian citizens. The roots of the problem are very similar to those in Western Europe, and it resembles very close what happened in France a few years ago.

Not only France but the UK and other countries are sick of having multiculturalism and in particular Islam rammed down their throats. many countries have had race riots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ra9W-ejd...embedded#!
(Englishmen form large organisation to battle Islam in England)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8It1wELMu...r_embedded
Brits and Muslims battle in the streets

The Swiss public votes to have criminal foreigners living in Switserland deported
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy60hEXUW...r_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nymm57DQ8PE
(Far right group in Sweden wins many seats)

Malmo Sweden becomes an immigrant shit hole (first 10 seconds in Swedish, rest is in English)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nymm57DQ8PE

30% of Turks in Germany do not have a high school diploma, Germans discuss immigration problem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nymm57DQ8PE

Denmark has ghettos with crime, drugs and violence, needs an army of police to maintain order.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcBgKRT59...embedded#!

I personally am sick of seeing in the news that another batch of Somali or Sudanese refugees is coming this way. It is as if they want western Europe to turn into one big ethnic battle zone. That is the way the future looks if you keep smashing people together. Hell, we even have different groups of refugees battling inside of the Dutch refugee centres before they even come out onto our streets!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRmgI_WXff0
Austrain politician rips arrogant Muslim (Turkish) ambassador a new asshole.

Hells Angels in Denmark have enough of immigrant crime and declare open violent war on them. Many Danish youth join the Hells Angels despite not even having a motorcycle, sick of immigrant crime.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtBy_3OOS...re=channel