Quote: (11-17-2012 03:56 PM)michelin Wrote:
This conflict will last for many more decades. The root is to be found many decades ago (WWII).
We can't even stretch this back to WWII. The events that happened then are set. Nobody can go back and change the Mandate or Resolutions. Moving past that the Israelis kicked around the Arabs in any conflicts they had prior to 1967, that's all fair in the game of War. No logical Arab aside from being a sour grape can backtrack past 1967 as a base of its arguments against Israel. That was its own chapter whiten the larger book/story of this conflict but IMO its pages have been sketched and are behind us. What was fought for and agreed upon in Armistice is 10000% valid. Is the USA going to go give back the South-West to Mexico anytime soon?
I commend @Captian AHab for doing a data dump on facts and realities in regards to the conflict. Look people can attack the style and the way I colour my posts but I have done the due diligence and the research to frame my views and stances on topics that relate to Geo-Politics and Foreign Policy. When you go down that rabbit hole and are not a complete shill or clown you simply can't ignore the facts at hand. Israel has been acting illegally in regards to the Palestine situation since the the start of the occupation. The only reason it has not had any binding repercussions is because it has been impossible to get any Security Council resolution passed in the UN to do so.
The USA has used its Veto power in regards to Israel over 30 times, here is a list of all of its Vetoes in that time frame.
There was one that did pass. Israel has been in violation of
UN Security Council Resolution 242 (S/RES/242) since 1967. Israel has failed to comply with this and continues occupy the Territories. The Israel - Palestine situation starts from 1967 onwards anything prior is trivial.
The general idea of Jordan and Egypt simply taking over the two parts has
ZERO chance of working. Its easy to look at a general map and say it makes sense but the actual realities on the ground point otherwise:
Israel has actively been Swiss Cheesin' the Palestine Territories with Settlements, and Roads. It has taking strategic spots where water resources are present, and have strategically built on hilltops for military reasons. The end goal for Israel is to completely absorb the two parts. This is quite obviously clear and and has been a long and steady plan by the Hard-lined Zionist Government over the course of the past
45 years of the Occupation. Everything from the bulldozing of homes, the restrictions on roads and passage, the amping up of tension, etc has been the process of slowly chipping away at the Territories and its people. There is a reason this has been the longest Military Occupation in the Modern-Era.
Here is Jimmy Carter with great talking points on the Occupation and the struggles with diplomacy in dealing with the Occupation and Apartheid:
Right now as it sits the Palestinian people are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. The "State of Palestine", or the "One State Solution" is nothing more than a booby trap that was set by the inept PLO in the 1990's. The Oslo talks IMO all it did was back Palestine into a corner. They took "power" over land, but its power granted is void of any self-determination or autonomy. Without either of those two you have no real power, none.
[
To contrast this the situation of South Africa, the Black population was granted full access to the avenues of power, it was able to be autonomous and seek self-determination as it saw fit. The only flaw in this process was that economic powers where never handed over and still (to this day) sit in the hands of the old South African Anglo establishment/elite.]
Its greatest bargain tool was the issue of the land. To this day I do not understand why they gave that up but in hindsight the PLO was a corrupt group of tools whom lived a lavish life while their fellow people lived in squalor. Wikileaks later reviled in documents that the PLO was a weak underbelly of Israel, it was heavily compromised and never truly have the best intentions of the Palestinian people at heart in the 1990's.
All this attention on the GAZA Zoo/prison/refugee camp which is one of densely populated strips of land on the globe. Its points of entry for trade, food, anything are controlled by Israel forces? GAZA is not that much larger in area then Philadelphia, and it has barley any functional infrastructure, plus it is under a near Blockade and is nearly completely isolated from the outside world logistically. I can smuggle rockets through the jungles of Africa but how about Gaza?.... Nobody asks the source points for Hamas at all, and IMO is another boondoggle that nobody in the West wants to even take a sniff at (even if they did access would be completely cut off for them in doing so) as one famous quote in regards to war is that in any conflict
"Guns and Missiles do not grow on trees...". Nobody has ever been able to accurately look into source points for these Rockets? The conventional narrative comes from one (heavily biased) source with is nothing more than a IDF propaganda push.
Another question I am thinking of is what is the grand picture in this current conflict? Is it simply to do with GAZA or should we also be keeping eye to the situation in West Bank which IMO has more potential of volatility being that is closer to Syria.
Geo-Politics is the grand Chess game. As much as it interests me I still get irked because people are getting killed by the movement of Chess pieces.
For anybody whom is interested a great Documentary to watch is:
Peace, Propaganda & The Promised Land (2004):
I admit this is the exact film that "woke me up" from the Western views of the Israel-Israeli conflict. After I watched this film in 2006 or 07 months after the Israel-Lebanon War. After I had to go back and re-learn all of my history since everything that I thought to know about the situation was largely untrue. I had an idea back then of how the USA Media was a big shill factory but this really broke down the architecture and apparatuses set up to shape and mold USA/West public opinion.