Quote: (05-03-2019 04:35 PM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  

Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Belarus, Russia in that order.

Of all the above Estonia has the highest standard of living for an expat. Zero corporate tax makes it a great corporate base for international biz.. Free and quality healthcare for residents.high quality schools and basicle free university for kids. If your into blonde blue eyed women its the honey hole.

Hit me up if you come for a visit.

and exactly how many members can get a "location independent lifestyle" that you brag about? All 3 Baltic states have lost hundred's of thousands of citizens over the last decade to emigration, situation is particularly bad in LT and Latvia and whole villages/towns are basically full of old people. Picture in these places is not as bright as you paint it. Of course Estonia is somewhat insulated but if one does not have white-collar skills (STEM fields) there it is difficult to work there (believe me, I tried a few years back applying with a few companies in Estonia and even had high up contact in Toomas Ilves cabinet but opportunities were still limited).

Also, from personal experience I have family members in Lithuania that even with advanced degrees make only around 1,000Euros/month. These countries may have decent living standards but majority of westerners, or in this case forum members, would be hard pressed to find a job paying enough there where they could maintain their high-standards of living similar to what one has in the west.

Also, if one IS NOT into " blonde blue eyed women its the honey hole" then I see better offerings in UA and RU especially for those of us who speak Russian

Triple G.

A location independant income is typically one that does not require you to live in any specific country. You work remotely from whichever country you choose. You make a western salary and live in a locale with lower cost of living. This arbitrage creates a tremendous value.

I live im the baltic because my wife is from here and I refuse to ruin her in the west and its toxic culture. We travel often but make Estonia our base for connections to her family, schools for kids etc. We are happily marries. She is submissive and feminine.

Its true. In lithiania and parts of Latvia salarys are low but so is cost of living.as I mentioned Estonia has the best standards of quality of life standards.

I have sales and biz development skills and although I run my own biz, i have been offered sales roles at aproximatley 3k euros per month in Estonia working for tech and saas companies pursuing western markets. If I ever needed to I could take these jobs.

I am also becoming fluent in Estonian.

If your not into blondes and speak russian then Ukraine, Russia or Belarus would be great options.

My point is that succumbing to a life in the toxic culture in the USSA soul crushing.

I would prefer to earn 1500 euros a month in Estonia be halpily married with a family... Than make 100k per year in the USSA have my wife take halfy shit, the goverent take the kther half, my daughter get gangbanged at 13 and my son turn metrosexual.

We all have our priorities

Quote: (05-04-2019 03:11 AM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  

Triple G.

A location independant income is typically one that does not require you to live in any specific country. You work remotely from whichever country you choose. You make a western salary and live in a locale with lower cost of living. This arbitrage creates a tremendous value.

I live im the baltic because my wife is from here and I refuse to ruin her in the west and its toxic culture. We travel often but make Estonia our base for connections to her family, schools for kids etc. We are happily marries. She is submissive and feminine.

Its true. In lithiania and parts of Latvia salarys are low but so is cost of living.as I mentioned Estonia has the best standards of quality of life standards.

I have sales and biz development skills and although I run my own biz, i have been offered sales roles at aproximatley 3k euros per month in Estonia working for tech and saas companies pursuing western markets. If I ever needed to I could take these jobs.

I am also becoming fluent in Estonian.

If your not into blondes and speak russian then Ukraine, Russia or Belarus would be great options.

My point is that succumbing to a life in the toxic culture in the USSA soul crushing.

I would prefer to earn 1500 euros a month in Estonia be halpily married with a family... Than make 100k per year in the USSA have my wife take halfy shit, the goverent take the kther half, my daughter get gangbanged at 13 and my son turn metrosexual.

We all have our priorities

Cost of living is actually not cheap in LV and LT if you want to live in the capitals Riga and Vilnius. In Tallinn you need 250,000EU+ if you want to live in a nice, new 3+ room apartment downtown or cool districts like Kalamaja. This is too much to spend for most forum members and while it may be affordable for you please do not use your example to say how good the country is as very few people make 3,000Euros/month and get the type of work you do. I figure you're in the top 5% of location independent wealth if that's the amount you make while many forum members who end up working remotely are barely making ends meet and that's while living in developing countries (SEA, S. AMmerica, etc.). Living in a place like Tallinn comfortably may be a pipe-dream for most and let's start using example's of "average joe's" when talking about standard of living.

Now, I do agree that the rest of the country, especially smaller towns and especially the Russian areas in the east like Narva are dirt cheap but since i don't have kids i would be bored to death living in the more rural areas as an expat and even Tallinn to me is boring for anything more than a 5 day vacation.

Forum members need to know that IMHO there are EU countries out there like Poland where cost of living is similar but salaries are higher and there are more economic opportunities. Also, one thing you failed to mention is that the weather in Estonia is horrible, one of the worst places in Europe to be honest. For 6 months out of the year it can snow and the winds and rains coming out of the Gulf of Finland/Baltic Sea can make Tallinn absolutely miserable. Also, basically no summer or beach weather to speak of. I remember visiting Tartu in June thinking that i'd enjoy swimming in the Baltic Sea and can sunbathe and the weather was only in the low 60s and water temperature was in the 50s. Of course if one is into winter sports such as ice skating and ice fishing (joking about the latter) then it may be ok....

^What’s wrong with ice fishing?

Ya, what's wrong with ice fishing?

@TripleG

I don't want to sound cocky or anything, but I do believe that I will be pretty successful in my investments.

It's something I want to do the rest of my life and I am trying to accumulate more asset/funds by working a corporate job right now.

I mean I am 25, I don't think I will have a problem with money when I am 35+ tbh.
That's 10 years until marriage lol

I don't spend money like crazy, pretty frugal and I believe that I will break into 100k if I keep grinding next few more years. Plus, I am pretty sure my cryptocurrency investments are going to make me into multi-millionaire.

We will see, maybe I am a naive/innocent youngster or someone who got their shit together.
If I am going to move to a country like those, I don't think I will be working, I will probably have some international borderless business/investment going on..

Triple G.

You seem bitter about expat life in Eastern Europe. I axtually come accross folks from time to time that are bitter expats. I think they wish that they didnt have to leave the West and feel resentful. Accepting reality is hard. . I had no idea you were so important to know someone in Toomas Ilves cabinet and are a member of the I.A.N.D. (international association of name droppers.)

I prefer not to speak of Average Joes as that is not what this forum is about and not what OP is. Average Joes dont get much pussy and suck at life, should probably stay in the USSA and tighten up, learn game before considering an expat move. .

Your analysis of remote work is incorrect. Its quite easy to earn 3k /mo remotely....i earn much more than that. The key is working for western clients or companies remotely. Lots of options in this regards. I use voip phone, VPN, email, etc and my clients never know im not local to USSA. I live in Estonia and my biz is estonian and work performed in estonia so zero corp tax. THIS IS FOR FIRST 100K VIA FOREIGN EARNED INCOME EXEMPTION.

I just sold a nice condo i owned in the center of Tallinn newly remodeled next to the new built hilton hotel, 5 min walk to city center. 150k euros, i paywd 150 a year in re tax. Your analysis of RE cost is wrong.

Some of my costs of living:

Cell phone : 15 euro a month inlcuding 4g data
Car insurance: 30 euro a month
BJJ Gym: 35 a month
Weight gym with pool: 25 a month
Organic local food direct from farmers: like 200 a month for meat, eggs, milk, vegetables per person.
A craft beer at bar:3.5 euros
A vottle of local vodka: 9 euros

You will notice in my other posts I bmentioned the brutal baltic winters... I usually head to the Med, Malta, Canaries for winter. That said, the winter isnt bad for some sports like ice fishing, big game hunting for Moose wild boar etc, skiing, hockey, snowshoing, etc.. Im a bowhunter and Finland has legalized bowhunting so I travel there easily every winter and bowhunt extremely reasonably cost. They legalize bowhunting for moose this year. Also there is some of the best btic salmon, sea trout fishing in thebworld in Estonia. Some very nice brown trout rivers.

BTW bro.... Tartu in June is a fucking gold mine regardless of weather. Its a huge college campus and lots of young talent. Any man with decent game will kill it.

Its now early may and my tan is in full as we had 2 solid weeks of sunshine and 20 degree weather!

Estonia provides the best value to an expat, location independant, high value man in Eastern europe. Ive traveled extensively and speak with first hand experience.

Some of the negatives in Estonia:

Goods are more expensive because of VAT 20% tax and the smaller market so clothes, electronics etc are a bit more than normal.

Estonian men are quite tribal and its hard to make real friends with Estonians. Its possible but difficult. Expats usually ban togethor here.

The topography is generally flat in the north of the country and beaches leave sometging to desire. I find that the islands for beaches and hilly region of southern estonia are good solutions to this. You can surf, windsurf, kitesurf in Hiiumaa, parnu etc and Otepaa is the winter capital with both downhill and crosscountry skiing.



If organic food, hot blondes, low taxes, reasonable cost and high standard of living, easy access to Europe interest you. Bang Estonia!

That said, explore the world and find what suits you best. You may find Poland, Russia or other parts of the world fit you better. Get out of the USSA for raising a family. This is My reccomendation to OP

"That said, explore the world and find what suits you best. You may find Poland, Russia or other parts of the world fit you better. Get out of the USSA for raising a family. This is My reccomendation to OP"

Quote: (04-18-2019 10:17 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

I have to say reading the posts on here recently, what in the actual hell happened to this forum?

SNIP

The playboy lifestyle is not for everyone but to actively berate it? That's crabs in a bucket 101.

A beer is enough, I really only post in the politics section. With what I'm about to say, I'll say it as someone who probably disagrees with pretty much everything that Doc Holiday says over in that politics sub forum.

I think Doc gives some great advice on this subject. I don't think he's berating anybody wanting to live the player lifestyle. I think he's just trying to paint a more realistic view. He's not saying you can't achieve whatever you want to achieve. But he is saying (I think) that sometimes in life it can be to late to achieve any of the family orientated goals that you might want later on in life.

It's like stats class. You might be the outlier. Or, you might be in that nice and cozy middle and average percentile.

The older I get, the more wisdom I see in what Doc has posted in this thread.

If A Beer Is Enough gets in a car wreck today, and his face gets physically deformed beyond repair, good luck starting any kind of family in this day and age.

If Doc gets in a wreck today, and his face gets physically deformed beyond repair, he will have a wife (hopefully) and kids who will still love him no matter what.

Probably pretty beta of me to say, but that's a really nice thing for Doc to have in life.

I was shopping at Walmart today. I saw a white couple, with six, yeah I counted, six kids. This wasn't in a Mormon or Amish area. While they could've been Mormon transplants, I doubt it, as there is hardly any Mormon presence here that I'm aware of. I'm assuming they were probably religious, but who knows, not like they were wearing crosses or anything.

I saw that family in the checkout line, and watched how they all interacted with each other. The mom was holding the 1.5 month old (the cashier asked what the age of the infant was) and the cashier was at awe at just how big the family was. I mean, come on, in 2019, when was the last time you saw a non-immigrant family, and white family no less, with six kids?!

The husband must've been about 5'8, typical dad bod, graying hair but still had a good amount of it up top. The wife was shorter, I guess around 5'3, and on the bigger side. She didn't appear to be big for no reason though, as it was clear that she had had a kid once every year and a half or so for the last decade and had just given birth 1.5 months ago. She had beautiful blue eyes.

Seeing that woman, with such love for her 6 kids and obviously for her husband as well, was truly a sight to behold. She told the cashier over conversation as they were checking out that she "came from a small family but loves being a mother". You could tell. She really did.

It was at some point during this interaction, in which I was an invisible bystander in the background, that I realized something: These people, are winners in life.

That husband and wife are going to grow old, and on their death beds be surrounded by their six kids and God knows how many grandchildren and perhaps even great-grandchildren. They'll be happy knowing that they built something in life greater than themselves. They are genetic and biological winners in life, their genetic code will live on.

That woman, all of 5'3 and maybe a buck forty, was probably the most beautiful woman I have seen in the past year. Hell, maybe the past decade.

You could've put that woman next to any swimsuit model, playboy bunny or UFC fight girl, and I would've said that mother of 6 had them beat in beauty by a mile.

A beer is enough, nobody is berating you for wanting to live your life how you want to live it. Just know, that at some point in your lifetime, you might find that there is more beauty in a 5'3, 140 pound loving mother of six children than ten 10/10 playboy bunnies.

Maybe what Doc is trying to say is that if and when that day comes for you, that if you try to listen to Doc and keep what he says in the back of your mind, that you'll be looking at that beautiful mother of six from the inside looking out, and not the outside looking in after it's to late.

Quote: (05-05-2019 09:54 PM)Uprising Wrote:  

Quote: (04-18-2019 10:17 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

I have to say reading the posts on here recently, what in the actual hell happened to this forum?

SNIP

The playboy lifestyle is not for everyone but to actively berate it? That's crabs in a bucket 101.

A beer is enough, I really only post in the politics section. With what I'm about to say, I'll say it as someone who probably disagrees with pretty much everything that Doc Holiday says over in that politics sub forum.

I think Doc gives some great advice on this subject. I don't think he's berating anybody wanting to live the player lifestyle. I think he's just trying to paint a more realistic view. He's not saying you can't achieve whatever you want to achieve. But he is saying (I think) that sometimes in life it can be to late to achieve any of the family orientated goals that you might want later on in life.

It's like stats class. You might be the outlier. Or, you might be in that nice and cozy middle and average percentile.

The older I get, the more wisdom I see in what Doc has posted in this thread.

If A Beer Is Enough gets in a car wreck today, and his face gets physically deformed beyond repair, good luck starting any kind of family in this day and age.

If Doc gets in a wreck today, and his face gets physically deformed beyond repair, he will have a wife (hopefully) and kids who will still love him no matter what.

Probably pretty beta of me to say, but that's a really nice thing for Doc to have in life.

I was shopping at Walmart today. I saw a white couple, with six, yeah I counted, six kids. This wasn't in a Mormon or Amish area. While they could've been Mormon transplants, I doubt it, as there is hardly any Mormon presence here that I'm aware of. I'm assuming they were probably religious, but who knows, not like they were wearing crosses or anything.

I saw that family in the checkout line, and watched how they all interacted with each other. The mom was holding the 1.5 month old (the cashier asked what the age of the infant was) and the cashier was at awe at just how big the family was. I mean, come on, in 2019, when was the last time you saw a non-immigrant family, and white family no less, with six kids?!

The husband must've been about 5'8, typical dad bod, graying hair but still had a good amount of it up top. The wife was shorter, I guess around 5'3, and on the bigger side. She didn't appear to be big for no reason though, as it was clear that she had had a kid once every year and a half or so for the last decade and had just given birth 1.5 months ago. She had beautiful blue eyes.

Seeing that woman, with such love for her 6 kids and obviously for her husband as well, was truly a sight to behold. She told the cashier over conversation as they were checking out that she "came from a small family but loves being a mother". You could tell. She really did.

It was at some point during this interaction, in which I was an invisible bystander in the background, that I realized something: These people, are winners in life.

That husband and wife are going to grow old, and on their death beds be surrounded by their six kids and God knows how many grandchildren and perhaps even great-grandchildren. They'll be happy knowing that they built something in life greater than themselves. They are genetic and biological winners in life, their genetic code will live on.

That woman, all of 5'3 and maybe a buck forty, was probably the most beautiful woman I have seen in the past year. Hell, maybe the past decade.

You could've put that woman next to any swimsuit model, playboy bunny or UFC fight girl, and I would've said that mother of 6 had them beat in beauty by a mile.

A beer is enough, nobody is berating you for wanting to live your life how you want to live it. Just know, that at some point in your lifetime, you might find that there is more beauty in a 5'3, 140 pound loving mother of six children than ten 10/10 playboy bunnies.

Maybe what Doc is trying to say is that if and when that day comes for you, that if you try to listen to Doc and keep what he says in the back of your mind, that you'll be looking at that beautiful mother of six from the inside looking out, and not the outside looking in after it's to late.

This reads like a fairly feeble homily written by an undergrad student.

The only thing that 'wins' genetically is the gene itself. If anyone has properly read the books of Dawkins and his cohorts knows this. It's not by accident that Charles Darwin was so reluctant to publish his theory of natural selection, he understood the horrific implications of it.

How his theory renders meaning into randomness.

If folks want to have kids and settle down this is fine but let's not pretend that it can produce meaning in a meaningless system. You die alone no matter how many grandchildren are surrounding you.

For example, a 26 year old man who settles for a fat piggy-faced girlfriend on the basis that she will be good wife material and that having children with her early will make him a 'winner' is delusional -- no matter how much hair he keeps in later life Delusional because he can't differentiate between his biological urges and what makes life meaningful; delusional about the nature of women because even the fat ugly ones 'are like that'; and delusional about his own value.

The inalienable and unfettered TRUTH on the Roosh forum is a fatty is a fatty -- and a 6 is 6 -- and no amount of sophistry can change that. When I was 26 I could have settled for an ugly girl and spawned unlimited children, it isn't hard to achieve this. I'm glad I didn't, it wouldn't have given my life any more meaning. It would have just been sad.

Archwall.

What is your advice to OP?

Ill share with you that as a former International Playboy and the Father of 2 and soon 3,Married to a submissive and feminine wife... There has never been anything more meaningfull in my life.

Ill also add that Survival of the fittest gives clear meaning to a man. All moral philosophy is false and vain. Might is right. This is the law. Darwins work renders true meaning and helps us understand the feminine imperative.

The world is a slipperry battlefield. A man must be a warrior. His value is his strength and might in all its forms (honor, mastery, courage) . His purpose is to develop these virtues to secure Gold, Women, Power, influence.and pass on his lineage with Strong capable warrior sons.

A playboy lifestyle, while a great stepping stone to find a suitable wife, in the end could easily lead to a meaningless existence full of regret.

Once a man secures a worthy wife and transcends his animal urges and investment of his time and resources into the pursuit of fleeting sex, ejaculation as entertainment and learns to transmute this all powerfull energy into business, family, mental and pysical strength.... He is on the path to fulffillment and a meaningful life.(i am going to take some time to reflect on this last paragraph that spilled from my mind and write a more extended post in this regard soon)

Quote: (05-07-2019 06:48 AM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  

Archwall.

What is your advice to OP?

Ill share with you that as a former International Playboy and the Father of 2 and soon 3,Married to a submissive and feminine wife... There has never been anything more meaningfull in my life.

Ill also add that Survival of the fittest gives clear meaning to a man. All moral philosophy is false and vain. Might is right. This is the law. Darwins work renders true meaning and helps us understand the feminine imperative.

The world is a slipperry battlefield. A man must be a warrior. His value is his strength and might in all its forms (honor, mastery, courage) . His purpose is to develop these virtues to secure Gold, Women, Power, influence.and pass on his lineage with Strong capable warrior sons.

A playboy lifestyle, while a great stepping stone to find a suitable wife, in the end could easily lead to a meaningless existence full of regret.

Once a man secures a worthy wife and transcends his animal urges and investment of his time and resources into the pursuit of fleeting sex, ejaculation as entertainment and learns to transmute this all powerfull energy into business, family, mental and pysical strength.... He is on the path to fulffillment and a meaningful life.(i am going to take some time to reflect on this last paragraph that spilled from my mind and write a more extended post in this regard soon)

Evolutionarily speaking, 'securing a worthy wife' is part of the continuum of our animal urges not something that transcends it. It's just the difference between what the famous biologist Trivers defined as long term and short term male parental strategy.

It's perfectly fine to find satisfaction in having children, I am genuinely happy that you have. But we shouldn't confuse this feeling of satisfaction born of a fulfilled biological imperative with 'meaning' -- or 'winning'. It's a trick that your genes are playing on you. It's the gene that wants to replicate itself: it produces just the right amount of chemicals in your brain that makes you see the world in
a particular way to further it's ends.

But you can ignore the gene and see the world for what it is.

As for OP, honestly I'm not sure what advice I can give. It's difficult to advise anyone on the internet.

Iconoclast007, I could not disagree more. Being the youngest of all of my colleagues, I got to hear many life stories. All these stories relate to men who are financially secure, working as contractors or employees of an American BigCorp, and based in Germany.

1. Guy lost his house to the Ex. His kids have been turned against him.
2. Guy lost his wife at the age of 30 due to Cancer
3. Guy lost his wife after having 2 kids with her (kids being around age of 2). Now he has to juggle full time employment and raising of 2 kids.

All these men are very driven, intelligent, and some were even religious.

Kids are great for those who find meaning in them. Not everyone are wired liked that. Maybe the average person, but this forum is not for average people.

Antonius of Eva.

It seems your colleagues made poor choices when securing a wife. Doesnt suprise me. The german society has turned into a bunch of feminist cucks.

There is nothing average about finding a worthy wife and raising quality children in todays climate. My posts emphasize avoidance of family formation in the western feminized countries(germany, uk, scandinavia, us, australia, canada etcetc.)

Archwall.

Im not sure what you mean by "seeing the world for what it is"????

I think game and playboy lifestyle is an important part of a young mans life. As one reaches his 30s this experience will prepare him for the next phases.

It is my point that securing a top shelf wife and children is an important part of la succsessfull mans life.

Case in Point:

Napolean Hill performed a study of 25,000 highly succsessfull men over 13 years. He found that

1. They in vast majority of instances did not find succsess until after 40 and becoming married.

2. 99% of these men practiced sexual transmutation of sex energy.

His work, Think and Grow Rich has been espoused by many memebers of this forum... As do I. Unlike Antoniusofeva bro socience with random 3 examples, Napolean Hill dedicated a large portion of hisblife to this study.

It is my argument that winning with a worthy wife and children are the base that most succsessfull men build their empires around.

I highly reccomend OP and young Playboys consider the merits of both sides of this discussion.

It's fine to have kids and enjoy them. It's also fine not to have kids and enjoy that. Neither way is more meaningful than any other as far as I'm concerned. If you want 'meaning' then probably the best place to look for it is in spirituality IF you believe that such a thing exists. OP should see what makes him happy and fulfilled.

But the point I was making originally in response to another poster was that if, in your twenties, you wife up a female that has a face resembling a pig on high doses of cortisone this is not a good definition of 'winning' I'm sure many of us would agree on that.

^^^ yeah they should have simply said “You would make a great wife but it’s so obvious you’re going to die soon”

Quote: (05-07-2019 09:57 AM)Archwall Wrote:  

It's fine to have kids and enjoy them. It's also fine not to have kids and enjoy that. Neither way is more meaningful than any other as far as I'm concerned. If you want 'meaning' then probably the best place to look for it is in spirituality IF you believe that such a thing exists. OP should see what makes him happy and fulfilled.

But the point I was making originally in response to another poster was that if, in your twenties, you wife up a female that has a face resembling a pig on high doses of cortisone this is not a good definition of 'winning' I'm sure many of us would agree on that.

I said in my post nobody was berating A Beer Is Enough for living his life how he wanted to live it.

The woman who I described in the story did not have a pig face, her face was beautiful with big blue eyes and what seemed to be natural blonde hair. She would have been a good looking girl in her early 20's before she had six children, I'm pretty sure of it. Six children in ten years will do a lot to the human body, on top of hovering around the 30 year old age mark + or - like she was. I think she deserves a pass for not being a supermodel given what she has done and what she has clearly given to her family (including her husband).

All in all, she seemed like a quality woman. It's pretty clear when a white family comes from a lower class (most people will use the slur "white trash") background living off welfare. This family was not on welfare and both parents and the kids spoke eloquently in a vernacular that the lower class whites from the trailer parks simply do not speak in (not that there's anything wrong with being lower class or anything).

This was clearly a well put together family. And it was beautiful to see.

I stand by what I said. Doc Holiday gives great advice in this thread. Posters like A Beer Is Enough should hopefully see that Doc isn't trying to berate him for living his life how he wants to live it, but that he should not close the door entirely on the wisdom that Doc has shared in this thread. Because as people get older, people change, and priorities change. That's something to keep in mind.

If you really want kids, you can donate your sperm. Your genes will live on.

If you really want to have someone holding your hand when you die of old age (assuming you don’t die in some sort of accident), find someone to settle down with when you’re in your late 50s or early 60s.

Or ask the nurse/chaplain who is taking care of you to do it. You can write it down in your DNR.

There is no NEED to get married and have kids in your 30s. Just because it’s been done that way for generations does not mean it is the “right” way or “only” way.

Behaviors change as societies evolve.

There are many ways to skin a cat.

The choice is yours.

Presenting marriage at an early age as the “better option” is an appeal to morality...and people usually appeal to that after logic has failed them.

Ironic how I came here to find a girlfriend...and then that changed to just wanted to mack on hoes and enjoy life...and now the people with wisdom are suggesting that one get married because it’s more meaningful...interesting turn of events!

I agree with Archwall, we live in an objectively, utterly meaningless universe. I find this fact liberating because it means that I can create my own meaning by taking actions that align with my own values that I selected for myself. I decide what is meaningful. And so do you.

For some, this means that finding an attractive wife and having kids is meaningful...others like me just wanna fuck and have fun, to drink from the nectar of life...it is what it is...

One thing guys like Iconoclast and Doc keep forgetting is that this is first and foremost a PUA/Lifestyle forum that RooshV founded and not a family forum (I still remember Roosh when he had a website dcbachelor.com which was all player talk). Guys who want to live a player lifestyle into their 30's should not be criticized.
Advocating men to get married young and have multiple kids and if they do not they are supposedly not "fulfilling their requirement of being a successful alpha man" just doesn't sound proper here. All viewpoints should be recognized for both their pros and cons. If certain members disagree completely with playboy lifestyle then for that type of talk there is always thebump.com forums which they can join

But in all seriousness while I am happy for Iconoclast and agree with some of his statements we can't all be international playboys who have good game, location independent income, plenty of free time to enjoy hobbies such as hunting and traveling to exotic lands for vacation all the while managing to snag a good looking foreign bride all in our 20's (which is what he has stated). As my previous post mentioned that is probably top 5% of the members on here however I can care less about that comparison, i'd rather hear how normal forum guys improve their life whether it be in the west or east one day at a time and not necessarily by taking a drastic leap and relocating overseas.

I may sound a bit bitter as I also struggle with this dilemma in my head (between giving up a freewheeling lifestyle and settling down as I get older) but no matter how many sweet family stories are shared by certain members, it is difficult for some of us to achieve due to factors that may be beyond our control. Relocating overseas to get married is not something that some of us can do due to the fact that we are location dependent, have family obligations (for example taking care of parents/siblings) and thus stuck in places like USA or Western Europe.

Many forum members here are struggling with women, jobs, various addictions, lack of solid job-skills, self-esteem issues, etc. etc. They can't just change their life on a dime and pretend they can have a beautiful wife, 2 kids, and economic success by the time they are 30. I would guess very large % of the forum members here who are under 30 and live in the west are struggling with life's questions like the OP is and instead of being told how to sprint should really be told how to walk properly first one small step at a time.

Quote: (05-07-2019 10:21 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

SNIP

You bring up good points Triple G. I don't really think anybody in this thread is arguing much with what you've said in this post. I certainly don't berate anybody who lives their lives how they want to live them and I haven't seen much of that in this thread either. I also don't think Doc or anybody else forgets that this was originally a pickup forum. I certainly haven't been around for the long haul, but the forum has evolved. I appreciate how we can freely express different opinions from different demographics on here whether it's about game, marriage, life or politics.

No place like RVF on the net.

One of the points Doc brought up that I liked, which men don't like to hear, is that men have a shelf life too just like women do. So yeah, like you said Triple G, people (including myself really) need to learn how to walk before we can sprint. It's just that we should not be under the assumption that it's going to be easy to find a young enough women who would want to have healthy babies with us by the time we hit a certain age.

But Triple G brings up a valid point too. For some men, it takes more time to develop themselves than it takes others. But in the case of A Beer Is Enough, who I originally replied too, it seems he does very well with women. Better than most American men do going by statistics. So in a case like his, I think it's sound advice to keep Doc Holiday's advice in the back of his head since he's already developed himself enough where he could have a wife and a great family one day, if he so chooses and doesn't wait to long to do it.

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I may sound a bit bitter as I also struggle with this dilemma in my head (between giving up a freewheeling lifestyle and settling down as I get older) but no matter how many sweet family stories are shared by certain members, it is difficult for some of us to achieve due to factors that may be beyond our control. Relocating overseas to get married is not something that some of us can do due to the fact that we are location dependent, have family obligations (for example taking care of parents/siblings) and thus stuck in places like USA or Western Europe.

Man, that is the truth. I hope you're not in that position Triple G. There's probably nothing worse than having to give up on a great girl, or her giving up on you, because of the certain life circumstances that you touched upon. I wouldn't wish that situation on my worst enemy.

Well I think the forum has evolved over time and as such I think there's room for both PUA and settle down, have a family threads. TripleG, I'm not criticizing anyone for their life choices. As Uprising has so graciously stated, I just stated some hard truths, some hard cold reality that men who are getting older have to face. I'm sorry that a lot of guys are unhappy with me for my remarks but I stand by everything I've said. Let it be known too that I have struggled royally at times. I have gone through everything you younger guys have gone through and probably a lot more because raising a family while you're still trying to grow and learn as a man is way harder than being single and only having to worry about yourself while you try and figure it out. TripleG, whatever struggles you are going through, just keep going, keep fighting and eventually you'll start having success. I don't think you need to leave the US to forge a great life and for most guys, they are ultimately better off staying here to try and make it work. There are exceptions like Iconoclast and he'd be a great resource for anyone interested in his path.

As I said, I have struggled royally through the years. I had to learn how to be a father, a husband and a business owner in a highly stressful industry where I have to be on all the time. I've been to hell and back. My 40s were my most challenging decade and the stuff I went through would have broken most men. I bent but I never broke. Even now I still have my struggles, mostly career related but when I see my teenage and adult children and how they've turned out, I know that my perseverance and resolve were all worth it. I have no doubts whatsoever about the type of man I have become and that has only come as a result of my life experiences and not taking the easy path through life.

I have a son in his early 20s and a teenage son so I make it my business to understand the environment that they are growing up in. I have read and I have learned so much from you younger guys over my years of being here. It's enabled me to give them some good new school advice to go along with my old school instincts. One of the most common lamentations is that most guys wish their parents had done more for them, guided them more, been there more for them etc. Well, I made all of those sacrifices and am still making them. I take great pride in this. It makes me feel strong and powerful. I'd be nothing remotely close to the man I am today if I had decided to just do PUA all these years.

The thoughts I have put forth here though I think are sound and sensible. I believe that every man must have a purpose for living, a purpose that goes above and beyond satisfaction of sensory pleasures and material desires. Those that can transcend those base motivations and strive for something beyond are those that will find their way. It doesn't have to be a family, it can be something else but just chasing pussy isn't gonna be enough after long enough at it. Hence the crossroads you see many men are at on the forum as I have stated previously. Becoming a strong, masculine man does not come easy, it takes work, it takes sacrifice, it takes resolve and most importantly it takes time.

Doc.

What advice would you give a man that chooses this marriage path and is in the beginning stages of family formation with young sons.

Quote: (05-08-2019 03:08 AM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  

Doc.

What advice would you give a man that chooses this marriage path and is in the beginning stages of family formation with young sons.

Damn I'd need a whole book to talk about what to do and more importantly what not to do. I'd be an expert in the what not to do section. With your sons, just show them a lot of love, include them in your hunting and outdoors activities (which I'm guessing you're doing or will do if they're too young right now), make sure they get educated but also, don't be afraid to discipline them when they misbehave. That's the biggest problem these days, is that parents are too afraid to be parents and discipline their kids, especially in the West.

I was pretty tough on my kids but I was always there for them and I showed them a lot of love and now I'm reaping the rewards of that hard work. As far as the wife, that's way more complicated but choosing the right person is the most important thing. Most guys choose the wrong person to marry, they don't vet the girl properly and they end up having a ton of problems. She has to have mostly similar values as you do. The girl's family is particularly important to look at. This is where having some experience with women will help immensely.

However, even if you choose well, it can and will be tough to hold it together. This is where your patience and resolve will get tested. The girl has to in the end believe in the marriage or else it could eventually fail. So far, you seem like you're doing a lot of the right things but I would tell you just to remain patient and stay resolute even when things get tough. It'll be worth it.

I could not agree more. And will take that advice to heart. Patience and Resolve.

I have chosen wisely in context to my wife, but that said, she is still a women and requires patience and resolve as you say. I still run game on her.

Being a leader of a business, A family and A women is not for the feint of heart. Knowing the tenants of game is vital for all three.

I intend to expose my sons to the things I think foster masuclinity like hunting, Guns, Jiu Jitsu, lifting, reading books, game etc.. Call it home masculinity school. I also intend to point out the lies society will attempt to indoctrinate them with even here in this Relative free, capitalist, insulated enclave in Eastern Europe on the russian border.

I understand that it is not my role as their father to be their friend. I am a mentor, a role model.

It is also my plan to spend a portion of their lives aboard a cruising sailboat starting in the Med and who knows where after, so they become worldly... This is 5 years away.

One thing I will would say is that none of this is chance or luck. I was left nothing from my alcoholic father and built and designed my reality. My ex child hood friends from trailerparks back in Texas are smoking meth and working loser jobs with fat wives that bang the neigbor on food stamps.

You are what you think. You are who your friends are. You are responsible for everyrhing that happens to you.

As a father to young sons, you have great power: despite feminist and globo-homo efforts, the Father Figure is still extremely powerful, because it’s part of our species’ collective unconscious. Even if you don’t do much, just by being there and honorably exerting the presence of the Father Figure you are already doing a great job. You will realize that your sons (even if they express criticism against you in public) have much greater respect for you than they admit, or that you think you deserve.

In the first 4-5 years you have to accept that you have a secondary role to your wife. Little boys bond more strongly with their mother and it’s how it should be. Your job is to bring civilization and rules to his primitive mind by means of discipline and sometimes violence (symbolic or physical - personally I kick and spank them, but only between the age of 2 and 12 and never in anger). At certain times, your son will hate you for that, but it’s good for him. You may also run into conflict with your wife because females tend to let their babies do what they want - but don’t back down. Boys actually prefer corporal punishment to the endless nonsensical, neurotic, guilt-ridden babble of mothers. Don’t let them disrespect you in your presence, but if they insult you behind your back (they will), let them.

Men bond through common activities, unlike women, who bond by talking. Outdoor activities, sports and boardgames are good, particularly competitive activities. Science shows that men can move quickly between conflict and friendship (by contrast women hold grudges). When I play a game against my sons I don’t give them quarter - if they lose, they lose, they cry, I don’t care. If they want to win they can play my wife.

Also I like to make them understand masculinity. ‘Boys don’t cry’ ‘Boys don’t complain’ ‘As a boy you have to defend and serve the family’ ‘You have to defend your sister at all costs’ are good things to tell them.