Quote: (03-08-2012 08:41 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

He hangs out with guys from RSD who purportedly have tight game.

Purportedly is the word.

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Did he learn nothing?

Was was there to learn? "Hey Papa, use the claw. Hey Papa, do a spin before talking to her. Hey Papa, remember the woo..."

Quote: (03-10-2012 05:33 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

Quote: (03-09-2012 10:06 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

So false... jesus man, how can you say stuff like this? Game gets women to fall in love with you.

Let's see.
To get a chick who's completely compatible with you you don't really need game.
To get any other chick you need it to shortcut her logical brain and play it into getting into her pants. This involves pretending some kind of compatibility - typically by playing down or ignoring the differences. Things like religion, what is the wife's role in family, how to discipline the kids and so on.

So great, you fucked up her brain, you got into her pants a few times, and you generally like each other.

Now what happens next if you got married and lived together for a few years?
Those differences will pop up. At some moment her logical brain comes back as well, and the charm spell wears off.
She starts analyzing your relationship critically. She sees those differences and finds them unacceptable. She thinks she can find a better man than you - like a man you pretended you were where you gamed her, with all the positive qualities you presented and without the negative qualities you did not present.
Then she decides your relationship is going to end sooner or later - and she decides to end it sooner while she's "still young to find a man" and there is no baggage like kids to hold it. So she files for divorce.

And if you're a "traditional" guy who insisted the wife should stay at home, you'll be ripped off by the divorce and will come back bitching about the "divorce theft" (a made-up-by-morons term).

The better you become in game, the higher is your chance to screw up this way unless you exercise a lot of self-control and choose your mate with your brain, not with your dick.
Sure, the game will get a woman to fall in love with you. But it won't make her to stay in love with you.

I'm inclined to agree with oldnemesis on this one, I think Samseau is being a bit too idealistic and not realistic enough.

Quote: (03-10-2012 11:35 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Actually, let me tell you how it works for us guys with Game.
10 years in the future...

What you describe is a dream which simply won't happen.
Anyway, I'll let you pretend it is real life, and I will fill up the things you skipped.

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A woman is calling me up early to make sure I don't need to cancel plans for Saturday night.

She's been living with you for 10 years and she knows from time to time you cancel the plans (she won't call to check if you do it rarely). Now let's get a look at her first:

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She wasn't necessarily the hottest woman I had fucked, but she was still objectively better looking than 95% of her peers. She looked better than many woman younger than her too. It helped that she was 12 years younger than me.

Being a popular and very attractive girl (top 5%!) she doesn't want to spend the Saturday night alone at home, nor she is used to. So she makes her own plans which do not include you. Her friends know she might drop by suddenly, or join their company without advance warning. Her affairs know that a booty call may be on a short notice and are ok with that.

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She doesn't know I slept with another woman earlier in that day, because she was at work and thought I was too.

During your whole marriage you've been always paying attention to other women. She even figured out you're using the same techniques you used on her, which let you display yourself as a man who has much higher value than you really do. Of course after living so many years with you she knows your real value, and she knows her value is at least the same as yours, if not higher. But, being a reasonable woman, she doesn't bitch about your whoring out and she doesn't drop you as some of her friends (one of whom you fucked) suggest. Being attractive she has no problem hooking up with guys.

So you didn't know she went to lunch with a coworker earlier that day and he fucked her in his car.

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I had already finished banging my fling and was able to pick up the phone on time.

After "lunch" she stopped by Subway to actually grab some food. One of PUAs from RooshV forum found her attractive and tried to game her. She obviously recognize the tactics, but she found him attractive too so she pretended to fall down for his game and reluctantly agreed to "check that really cool club later this evening"

Now she called you with the hope you'd cancel so she won't have to make anything up.

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"Hey sweetheart, what's up?"
"Everything all set for tonight?", she says with a ring to her voice.
"Yeah, I'll see you in a bit."

"Hey sweetheart, what's up?"
"Dear, I know we planned to go out tonight, but my good friend is leaving the country tomorrow, and since we've been very close friends she just invited me to the girl-only party. I hope you don't mind. You disappointed? Sorry dear, but you canceled it last time too, remember? Sure. I love you too baby. Bye"

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I hang up. The brevity of our conversation is one of the original reasons I decided to have children with her. Easily satisfied, never anxious.

Of course if she was like that she'd never be with you, a pretty ordinary American male around her age, not a superstar or super rich. In fact she's stopped to show your pictures to anyone since they all wonder what the heck did she find in that guy, and she doesn't really have an answer.

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Although we haven't been officially married, our kids are doing just fine, and are with the babysitters tonight. Everyone else in the community believes we are married, but we file our taxes separately.

And she is fine with that. She can use the "I'm married" line so the guys would just give her all the attention she wants, and sometime a quick fuck, but if they're trying to get something she doesn't want to give them she can always say "sorry I'm married".

At the same time she knows if you decide to dump her and find some other chick, you'll still be paying her the child support, so she is not very worried about it.

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I pull up to the curb of her house, and walk up to the door. The door suddenly opens in front of me. She slides up to me and begins to snuggle against my chest. It had been three days since we saw each other last. "Oooh.... I missed you."

And considering that you are the kind of "father" who can skip the family for three days just because you're too busy fucking other chicks, there is no doubt the court will grant her full custody, and you'll be lucky to get some limited visitation.

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She had confessed to me that I had changed everything in her life. Little did she know that I had experienced hundreds of women before her, offering me the exact same thing.

Then at some moment she figured out you're the type of guy who perfected the process of passing the interview. You are perfect in passing the interview, you charm everyone and no matter which company you go you'll get a job and will be hired. Very soon, however, the people understand that you just learned the interview process but not real skills. You can read the interviewer body language and have excellent answers to all the questions, but this doesn't help you on the job and you're getting fired after a month.

She, however, has some obvious value being in the top 5% of the ladies looks-wise, and she obviously knows she could do better than you. So she'll put up with your shit as long as she can do whatever she wants, and as soon as you open your mouth she tells you she found someone else and is leaving.

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1. The woman I decided to have children with will always be chasing me. That's because tight game allows me to do that.

Yes, this will work until you start living together. Since you cannot run the tight game 24/7/365 in whatever state you are (hungry, ill, stressed out) it will take her 2-4 weeks to figure out what you really are.

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2. I'll always be banging other women. It will keep me from being bored and help me stay a better lover for my nontraditional wife.

She may actually be fine with that - she'll bang some other dudes, it will keep her from being bored. It helps that you're not really married, so this is technically not adultery.

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3. Never will I "go wife hunting", which is hardcore beta. My wife will become apparent to me after years of slaying pussy, because the one woman who sticks around with me no matter where I go or no matter who I fuck will be the one ultimately stay with.

That's where you're dreaming. A young smart girl with top looks would definitely have a lot of options. Some of those options not only will run the tight game on her (no, you're not the only one), but may have some other qualities as well, like being rich. Sure those aren't important when she was looking for some quick fuck, but they are important when she's looking to settle up. She may even like you more, but she'll marry a rich dude instead, and she'll mother his kids, and will take care of him when he's sick.

And all your game would be only good for fucking her from time to time in some remote dirty parking lot.

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4. I will not get married in the traditional sense; I'll be married in the eyes of society but never in the eyes of the state. There will be no separation issues. I will not ever pay child support. My wife will be so happy to have me she would never dream of taking me into court.

But if the finances dry up (for example the economy collapses, and she cannot find a job), she would apply for state benefits for herself and the kids. Then BY LAW the state agency sues you as a father for child support, which you have to pay to the state. And in this case you'll have less rights than a husband would have.

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5. My wife will have children with me even though she will not have security of marriage, because she will know that she'll never get a better man. We will both have been dating multiple partners for quite some time before she decides that I'm the alpha husband for her.

You must be kidding here. The whole "game" thing says women prefer alpha fuckers, but they indeed prefer beta providers.

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6. Game gives the man options, which by definition means I'll always have the power in a relationship. This means I'll never have to worry about finding a wife; women will have to be the ones worried about finding a guy like me.

This works, but only in one case - your REAL value is much, much higher than hers, and it is obvious to everyone else. As a result everyone tells her "girl how lucky you are!" instead of "what did you find in that guy?". For example I can see it working if you're a super rich guy, or a very high status guy (a President, for example). So what makes you a real high value guy? Game doesn't. Those who have real value don't need game to attract the chicks below them. You don't need game to fuck a chick who is much older and uglier than you.

So what makes you such a high value guy?

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And before you reply with your usual sarcasm, and say something like "Nice fantasy," keep in mind I'm already doing stuff like this with American women.

It is easy to fake yourself as a high value guy when she sees you once a week and you're in a good mood and prepared. It is very different when you start living together.

Your entire argument rests on living together. Why the fuck would I do that? I'll always have my own apartment. If she doesn't like this, she can find a different man.


Next, you think there will be money issues. If I can't acquire enough money (a reliable 60K+ per year) by the time I'm in my thirties, there's no way I"ll have children. I doubt this will be an issue.

You also seem to think that women will only stay with a man if he has money, when in reality money is fucking worthless past a certain point - especially if she makes her own.


You don't understand what game is. This much is apparent to me. You think it's all tricks and superficiality, when in fact game is true psychological domination. The way to keep a relationship alive isn't with "value", which you're obsessed with, but by allowing her to stay in love with you. This comes from making her fear losing you, making her understand your ability to charm others, and, most importantly, respect my desires and habits. Love is an emotion, not a "value" calculation.


There is an unlimited supply of rich lovelorn betas, but very few alphas with game. It's too bad you've never felt what it's like to have true power over women.

Quote: (03-11-2012 11:46 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

You don't understand what game is. This much is apparent to me. You think it's all tricks and superficiality, when in fact game is true psychological domination. The way to keep a relationship alive isn't with "value", which you're obsessed with, but by allowing her to stay in love with you. This comes from making her fear losing you, making her understand your ability to charm others, and, most importantly, respect my desires and habits. Love an emotion, not a "value" calculation.

I am a little bit skeptical of the ease with which you can pull this off.

But it was clear that oldnemesis has a flawed view of game. Read between the lines, and oldnemesis is saying that being a dominant, interesting funny guy has no value in and of itself to a woman. It's just shorthand for making money and having high status. But... charisma is currency. More charisma means you need less of everything else, to snag an equally hot girl, within reason. Plus he seems to think you need to be a 10 to bag an 8.

There are plenty of hot girls in relationships with fairly normal guys, it's just they had access to her at the right time to get her.

Quote: (03-11-2012 12:05 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Quote: (03-11-2012 11:46 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

You don't understand what game is. This much is apparent to me. You think it's all tricks and superficiality, when in fact game is true psychological domination. The way to keep a relationship alive isn't with "value", which you're obsessed with, but by allowing her to stay in love with you. This comes from making her fear losing you, making her understand your ability to charm others, and, most importantly, respect my desires and habits. Love an emotion, not a "value" calculation.

I am a little bit skeptical of the ease with which you can pull this off.

Who said this was easy?

Oldnemesis, that is a very cynical view of the value of personality. I agree with Samson that a dominant personality and mindset combined with charm is essential to game. I don't think many guys on this forum are relying on magic tricks.

How would you explain how pimps get women loyal to them for life? Not all of them are low self-esteem junkies, at least they don't start that way. They don't provide them with shit. They leech off them. They use them until they're dry. But these girls love them for it, and tricks will offer them money to 'get out of the life' and they turn them down. They love the pure dominance that pimps display.

Yeah, some girls might ditch you for a guy with deeper pockets..but money isn't everything to everyone.

Quote: (03-11-2012 12:05 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

I am a little bit skeptical of the ease with which you can pull this off.

But it was clear that oldnemesis has a flawed view of game. Read between the lines, and oldnemesis is saying that being a dominant, interesting funny guy has no value in and of itself to a woman. It's just shorthand for making money and having high status. But... charisma is currency. More charisma means you need less of everything else, to snag an equally hot girl, within reason. Plus he seems to think you need to be a 10 to bag an 8.

There are plenty of hot girls in relationships with fairly normal guys, it's just they had access to her at the right time to get her.

He is talking from a marriage/kids point of view. Getting bangs isn't that hard but dealing with a long term relationship, let alone with kids, will be something entirely different.

For some reason, people think a chick will wait around for his alphaness to grace her with his presence. ha

She will have more then enough prospects to not worry too much about him. Surprisingly, there are a lot of guys with a decent amount of charisma and charm.

Hell, having a kid or marrying her puts her in the driving seat.

Oh, and lol at the no child support.

Quote: (03-11-2012 01:26 PM)Blunt Wrote:  

Oldnemesis, that is a very cynical view of the value of personality. I agree with Samson that a dominant personality and mindset combined with charm is essential to game. I don't think many guys on this forum are relying on magic tricks.

How would you explain how pimps get women loyal to them for life? Not all of them are low self-esteem junkies, at least they don't start that way. They don't provide them with shit. They leech off them. They use them until they're dry. But these girls love them for it, and tricks will offer them money to 'get out of the life' and they turn them down. They love the pure dominance that pimps display.

Yeah, some girls might ditch you for a guy with deeper pockets..but money isn't everything to everyone.

I think "game" can be a tool that people use to make themselves better.

The problem is a lot of people would rather fake value to get laid instead of changing themselves to actually become higher value.

So, yeah, he has a cynical view but I understand where he is coming from.

nick papa kho is a gameless high functioning autistic who lives off his daddy's money. this is what barry kirkey (26/extramask from The Game) related on his podcast.

Quote: (03-11-2012 11:46 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

>

when in fact game is true psychological domination.

This is definitely the difference between what the pick up artists talk about, and what the pimps talk about.

In any event, maintaining that domination is tiring.

Quote: (03-07-2012 09:05 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

This dude is almost as bad as David D.

I just googled her. For guys who don't know yet, apparently David D married this:



damn. He actually looks better than her. Plus, she's a 'relationship expert' as well (that's femspeak for 'slut', i recon).

Just exactly what's psychological domination? And why would you want that in a LTR?

10 years in the game and he's still a beta. After all the shit he would have seen, really??

http://www.rsdnation.com/papa/blog/papa-...ield-video

He proposed on Valentines day. -100 points.

That girl looks bemused. I'd give it 2 years.

Quote: (03-11-2012 11:46 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Your entire argument rests on living together. Why the fuck would I do that? I'll always have my own apartment. If she doesn't like this, she can find a different man.

Interesting.
You mentioned it that you're going to be "married in the eyes of society", so everyone would think you are married.
But apparently you're going to be living separately and see her a few times a month.
And you call it "like being married"? This is more like having a fuck buddy, i.e. no-commitment relationship. Those tend to be pretty short-term and unstable, and having kids in this kind of relationship is a recipe for disaster.

Then, obviously in this kind of scenario she's going to fuck other guys as well. Are you ok with that?

And in case you're not ok with that, she'll find a different man and you're going to pay child support to her.

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Next, you think there will be money issues. If I can't acquire enough money (a reliable 60K+ per year) by the time I'm in my thirties, there's no way I"ll have children. I doubt this will be an issue.

I have no idea where you live, but here in Bay Area 60K per year is slightly above the poverty level. May be enough for a single dude who is used to live cheap, but for a family with kids this will be a stretch.

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You also seem to think that women will only stay with a man if he has money, when in reality money is fucking worthless past a certain point - especially if she makes her own.

Nope. What I think is that no high value woman would stay with you unless you're a high value man. Not a "displaying high value", but a real high value man. Money is just one of examples of having real high value (obviously I'm not talking about minuscule 60K a year unless you go to Philippines or Thailand).

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You don't understand what game is. This much is apparent to me. You think it's all tricks and superficiality, when in fact game is true psychological domination.

More specific, it is psychological domination which plays on her emotions while shutting down her logical brain. Kind of a daze. You know it yourself that you can make a chick in a club virtually fall in love with you, and in two days she won't return your phone call. This happens VERY often, and this is because the effect of the game is very short-lived and - in absence the stimulus - wears off pretty quickly.

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The way to keep a relationship alive isn't with "value", which you're obsessed with, but by allowing her to stay in love with you. This comes from making her fear losing you, making her understand your ability to charm others, and, most importantly, respect my desires and habits. Love is an emotion, not a "value" calculation.

Love is a very short-lived emotion, which also needs constant reinforcement. This doesn't happen in fuck buddy style relationships. Not to mention we're not talking about an fugly plain Jane type here for whom you may be the first man in her life who actually paid attention to her, and she'll keep remembering it for the next ten years. We're talking about an extremely attractive girl who is constantly flooded with male attention coming from all kind of males.

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There is an unlimited supply of rich lovelorn betas, but very few alphas with game. It's too bad you've never felt what it's like to have true power over women.

I think you are self-serving yourself a dream. It is pretty obvious to me that you have never been in actual long-term relationship with a girl who was truly attractive. The only advice I can give to you is to wait with kids until you have been together at least two years; this will save you a lot of grief later.

Quote: (03-11-2012 12:05 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

But it was clear that oldnemesis has a flawed view of game. Read between the lines, and oldnemesis is saying that being a dominant, interesting funny guy has no value in and of itself to a woman.

Being dominant has little, if any, value itself. Nor this is necessary. Being confident is, but this is very different from being dominant. The only relevance to the game is that one might fake the confidence - but of course this won't help in long term.

Being interesting has a lot of value, but it comes with living a lifestyle which other people want to be part of. Now some people who do not live this kind of lifestyle lie about it, or make their lifestyle look much more attractive that it really is - this may be considered "game" but obviously this is not going to work in long term.

Remember that it is incredibly easy to be interesting for the first few hours to a chick you just met, as even if you lived your whole life in basement playing games you'll still find a few episodes in your life which will make you look interesting. However try to be interesting for a few years - that's a different story.

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More charisma means you need less of everything else, to snag an equally hot girl, within reason. Plus he seems to think you need to be a 10 to bag an 8.

Remember we're not talking about snagging here. That is where the game works perfectly fine. We're talking about how Samseau expects to keep the girl attracted to him after they spent so much time together already.

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There are plenty of hot girls in relationships with fairly normal guys, it's just they had access to her at the right time to get her.

Do you understand that most "fairly normal guys" actually have a lot of real value? Their issue is typically that they do not know how to convey it properly, so they suck in getting short-term attraction quickly. However in LTR it works for them.

Quote: (03-11-2012 01:26 PM)Blunt Wrote:  

Oldnemesis, that is a very cynical view of the value of personality. I agree with Samson that a dominant personality and mindset combined with charm is essential to game.

As I said, this is good enough to get a quick fuck from a girl.
But this definitely is not enough to keep the LTR working.
And we're talking about LTR in this thread (see the discussion).

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How would you explain how pimps get women loyal to them for life? Not all of them are low self-esteem junkies, at least they don't start that way.

How many of those pimp whores are at the top 5% attractiveness-wise? I guess very few, if any - and those few who are have some other issues like drug usage. And the pimp typically has much tighter control of his whores. I don't think one could pimp a girl for life just by seeing her once a week.

I didn't say the scenario Samseau described won't work. After all, I am living the similar kind of scenario myself. My point was that it would not work with the girl he described, or it would not work the way he described. For example, it will work exactly as he described if he gets an ugly chick with very low self-esteem which receives zero male attention. Or he may get a cute chick who'll play her own game.

And "cynical" is a synonym for "realistic". This world is not a heaven. Look around.

LOL@ those saying he is a beta. How many betas do you know get women like this? He is an unattractive Asian dude who got a Blonde who at worst is a 6-7. He did well for himself and outkicked his coverage which game is supposed to do.

Quote:oldnemesis Wrote:

You mentioned it that you're going to be "married in the eyes of society", so everyone would think you are married.
But apparently you're going to be living separately and see her a few times a month.

Never did I imply or say this; it's more like I would see her and my kids 70% of the time with my free time.

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Nope. What I think is that no high value woman would stay with you unless you're a high value man. Not a "displaying high value", but a real high value man. Money is just one of examples of having real high value (obviously I'm not talking about minuscule 60K a year unless you go to Philippines or Thailand).

Yep, you don't know why I'm a high value man yet you assume I'm not a high value man.

But I am a high value man, and the girls I fuck all tell me this. Your internet opinion is devoid of reality.

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More specific, it is psychological domination which plays on her emotions while shutting down her logical brain. Kind of a daze. You know it yourself that you can make a chick in a club virtually fall in love with you, and in two days she won't return your phone call. This happens VERY often, and this is because the effect of the game is very short-lived and - in absence the stimulus - wears off pretty quickly.

This happens when you fail to have sex with her, which prevents the bonding process from completing itself.

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Love is a very short-lived emotion, which also needs constant reinforcement. This doesn't happen in fuck buddy style relationships. Not to mention we're not talking about an fugly plain Jane type here for whom you may be the first man in her life who actually paid attention to her, and she'll keep remembering it for the next ten years. We're talking about an extremely attractive girl who is constantly flooded with male attention coming from all kind of males.

Have you ever had a girl fall in love with you before?

She'll be sending you texts and phone calls every day. She'll tell you she can't stop thinking about you, that she can't wait to see you, etc.

Once she falls in love with you, the relationship is a joke to maintain. Just feed her the bare minimum amount of attention to keep her coming back for more. Sleep with other women when you get the chance. It's easy as shit.



By the way, you seem to think top 5% of women is difficult bracket of women to fuck - but it's not. The top 5% of women are women with hot bodies and pretty faces (not model faces).

So, for example, a cute 7 at 21 years of age is top 5%.

A hot 8 at 27 years is top 5%.

Top 5% is very attainable for most men. Get one of those girls to fall in love with you, and see if she keeps chasing you for a 3-4 years. If you get that, you've got mother material.

Quote: (03-11-2012 10:53 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Once she falls in love with you, the relationship is a joke to maintain. Just feed her the bare minimum amount of attention to keep her coming back for more. Sleep with other women when you get the chance. It's easy as shit.

So true. I'm in this situation myself right now, and it is trivial to keep it going. Almost anything I do makes her feel even more deeply for me. In fact, the worse I treat her, the more deeply she feels. Pepper it with some consideration and kindness and it's smooth sailing.

Some of you guys sound like you're on a drunk power high.

I've never watched RSD, and I have no idea who Papa is. But just looking at that video, it seems the guy knows she's on if not beyond the top end of what he can normally get (if he gets any).

Will he regret it? Doesn't everybody who gets married regret it? Would he feel better marrying some ugly chick who will still become an unbearable wife?

I'm going to be honest here. I'm pretty impressed. Among PUA wives/long term girlfriends I've seen, she's in the top 3 for looks, the other two being Neil's Lisa and Mystery's whatsername.

Quote: (03-11-2012 10:23 PM)Skyhigh Wrote:  

OK, we just need some haters to point out all her flaws and turn this into a "Would Not Bang" poster.

Personally, given that she's pretty, thin and young, I'd give her an 8, maybe even a 9 if she's got some ass. It would be different in, say, the Baltics, but in America, she's a good looking girl amongst hungry hungry hippos.

Quote: (03-11-2012 10:23 PM)Skyhigh Wrote:  

LOL@ those saying he is a beta. How many betas do you know get women like this? He is an unattractive Asian dude who got a Blonde who at worst is a 6-7. He did well for himself and outkicked his coverage which game is supposed to do.

You're impressed by a guy who marries an over-the-hill gold-digger?


Remember, this is marriage we're talking about. If Papa picked up her up one night for a bang, I would have no objections.

But for marriage, this woman is a disaster. She's too old, and probably has a killer agenda.

Quote: (03-12-2012 11:05 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (03-11-2012 10:23 PM)Skyhigh Wrote:  

LOL@ those saying he is a beta. How many betas do you know get women like this? He is an unattractive Asian dude who got a Blonde who at worst is a 6-7. He did well for himself and outkicked his coverage which game is supposed to do.

You're impressed by a guy who marries an over-the-hill gold-digger?


Remember, this is marriage we're talking about. If Papa picked up her up one night for a bang, I would have no objections.

But for marriage, this woman is a disaster. She's too old, and probably has a killer agenda.

And she drinks that skunk brew. Look behind her. Deal killer right there.