Quote: (01-03-2018 03:14 PM)xxx Wrote:  

There should be a thread on this, titled 'Individual perception' or something like that.

You've said you've met guys from the forum right? You're living in the States?

Honestly I don't know if I'm good with women because of my personality or because of my looks -- judging your own looks as a man is next to impossible.

I think it'd be a good idea for a thread but yeah it'll vary.

Yes I'm based in the US - and I've met about 21 Members from this forum.

I think my looks are a bit above average, however my game/personality is leaps beyond that.

xxx - there's no point really in asking what the looks bar is when you can just make an account and try it for a couple weeks...the girls you match with will be the "bar."

It doesn't take a lot of time, it's that the time is a deceptive waste if it doesn't produce results.

Quote: (01-03-2018 03:47 PM)xxx Wrote:  

I look almost like an exact copy of this guy, but in my 20s.

Is that good enough to be in the top 20% of guys on Tinder?

I really don't want to waste my time and apparently it does take a lot of your time.

You can PM me real photos if you want. I've analyzed hundreds of Tinder profiles, I have a pretty good idea of what guys tend to do well.

It's tough to even use a celebrity lookalike because that doesn't give an idea of vibe, style, or body language.

xxx- Tinder is all about personality, style and body language.

There are lots of good-looking guys on the app, you're probably not going to outdo them in regards to pure physical attractiveness but you can SLAUGHTER them if you have a strong style, body language and project yourself through your pictures well.

I'm not really that good looking but I have a specific style and my pictures are for the most part interesting. I'd get around 150-200 matches in a smallish city.

Focus on your style and good pictures.

I'd also suggest going after a "niche". For example, the kind of girl I focused on was more artistic and creative. I'd never match with bar sluts, usually, if the girl had a picture of them on a hike I'd match with them. So find your "niche". This also sets you apart from the really good looking guys, because now you've niched down.

________

So I did more camera game last night, here's one of the better photos I got.

I didn't realize it, but I think this one was into me.

I'll let you guys be the judge though.



Also, at work today a cute girl came in and sat at the bar alone. She just has a sort of aura about her, I could feel being drawn in.

I started talking to her, and the conversation went well but I could just feel that I was giving off the friend vibe.

After she was done her drink, she left and I was kicking myself for not being more flirtatious with her.

Oddly enough, she came back (for food) about 4 hours later and we started talking, this time she said by the way I have a boyfriend and that she didn't want me to get the wrong vibe. We chatted for a bit before her dinner arrived and then she left after she was done her dinner.

So, reflecting back.

I often kick myself for not making my intentions clear with girls. Making it obvious that I find them attractive and want to fuck them but I wonder if I'm wrong and if I already project the energy that I want to fuck and that I'm a masculine man who goes after what he wants. If I didn't project this, I don't think she would have told me she has a boyfriend.

To confirm this I've had girls come over from Tinder and after sex, they told me that I was aggressive. (Which is funny because everytime a girl comes over from Tinder I always kick myself for not kissing or making a move sooner. Lmao.")

One other thing that I find interesting, and maybe confirms the above statement is that if I go to a party, club or bar and just chill, ignoring the girls, I'll end up getting approached by one of them.
I remember at a hostel in Ottawa there were these 2 girls who all the guys wanted and I just played it cool. Little smirks here and there but I never talked to them. Then one day I was sitting on the couch and the hottest one sat next to me. Obviously wanting to talk and up until then, I never said more than a "hi" to her.

I seem to draw people to me if I just chill.

Perhaps I don't need to be more aggressive/flirtatious.

^^ Nice photo.

You are inspiring a lot of men. Keep up the good work!

I find this 'camera game' thing a bit strange, I don't get what you're trying to do with it?
If it's to push you into talking to people I think you have been able to do that.

You're approaching these women under the guise that it's for a photo project. Instead approach them indicating you are attracted to them and want to date/fuck them.

IMO you're making your intentions unclear.

Quote: (01-03-2018 11:32 PM)Mig Picante Wrote:  

I find this 'camera game' thing a bit strange, I don't get what you're trying to do with it?
If it's to push you into talking to people I think you have been able to do that.

You're approaching these women under the guise that it's for a photo project. Instead approach them indicating you are attracted to them and want to date/fuck them.

IMO you're making your intentions unclear.

Disagree mate.

First of all, the camera thing is very congruent with my personality. I actually do photography, minus just taking pictures of cute girls and I want to hone my skills taking pictures of people.

And I also think, intent doesn't have to be communicated so overtly. And I think the way you communicate intent can change depending on the venue and atmosphere.

Approaching a girl in a cafe with such clear intent

A) Creates a reputation especially if you visit often

B) You might get some girls bite, but actually sealing the deal I imagine would be hard because there would be a high flake rate.

C) Such an approach doesn't suit the vibe.

I think a lot of people get stuck in the whole

"Hi, I saw you and think you're cute I want to talk to you"

part of game when game doesn't have to be so linear. Game can be run in a VARIETY of ways and you have to find one that's congruent with you. Game after all is a game.

For myself, walking up to girls with such a direct opener would just run me down. You have to make it fun.

But with all that said, I'm still curious about your thoughts.

Cute girl. Definitely my type. Agree re the niche- I have a similar niche as you.

I might have missed it, are you getting their contact details? A mobile number, Facebook, IG? etc, How are you closing?
Are you going to meet up with them again and how does it shift from taking a pic to meeting up again?

I still think it's going to be tricky as there is a boundary between photographer and model where the photographer shouldn't touch the subject. You could come off as sleazy or unprofessional really fast.

Anyway, best of luck with it.
(I thought it was about quitting Tinder but now it's about photography. I don't really follow)

Yeah you really should refrain from posting random girls' photos on a public forum. There is actually a specific rule against it here...

Anyway do carry on.

Quote: (01-04-2018 02:54 AM)Mig Picante Wrote:  

I might have missed it, are you getting their contact details? A mobile number, Facebook, IG? etc, How are you closing?
Are you going to meet up with them again and how does it shift from taking a pic to meeting up again?

I still think it's going to be tricky as there is a boundary between photographer and model where the photographer shouldn't touch the subject. You could come off as sleazy or unprofessional really fast.

Anyway, best of luck with it.
(I thought it was about quitting Tinder but now it's about photography. I don't really follow)

If the vibe is right, I either grab the number or invite them to another venue.

In regards to the "model", it's nowhere near as formal as that.

Think of it this way,

Girl gets approached and gets asked to write something down on pen and pad plus have her picture taken.

She agrees, and during the interaction, she thinks the guy is attractive.

They start talking, he teases her and then after a short fun conversation he says

"lets go grab a drink, I'm about to take a break."

OR

"hey, I have to go but I like your vibe let me get your number."

She's gonna know whats up and if she likes you, won't have a problem with it.

This is why in this game, you only go for the numbers of those who you seem to have a really good connection with.

It has to be spontaneous and authentic.

Quote: (01-04-2018 06:14 AM)Bushido Wrote:  

Yeah you really should refrain from posting random girls' photos on a public forum. There is actually a specific rule against it here...

Anyway do carry on.

I agree.

Have members been hunted down because of posting pictures?

Very innocent looking girl. Doesn't look the type to sleep around.

She has that look that's the exact opposite of the slut face.

Not surprised she wasn't available. You should keep in touch with her just to see where her life goes.

*You're not sleeping with them, and you're a photographer, so I think you can post. You can always ask Roosh and explain.

Op are you comfortable displaying your province/area? I think you said you were in a remote area right?

Quote: (01-04-2018 12:35 PM)xxx Wrote:  

Very innocent looking girl. Doesn't look the type to sleep around.

She has that look that's the exact opposite of the slut face.

Not surprised she wasn't available. You should keep in touch with her just to see where her life goes.

*You're not sleeping with them, and you're a photographer, so I think you can post. You can always ask Roosh and explain.

Op are you comfortable displaying your province/area? I think you said you were in a remote area right?

Her partner count is probably 5 or less and she had a really sweet feminine vibe to her. Keeping in touch for sure.

And for now, I'd say I'm not comfortable with showing my location.


______________

Today was the 2nd day since I cracked with Tinder.

Also, I haven't watched porn since this challenge and I haven't jerked off since I had sex last.

Last night was a low-key night. I stayed in, had a hot bath with Epsom salt coupled with a double rusty nail and the company of David Deida's "The Way Of The Superior Man" and Kurt Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse 5".

I love taking baths, they charge me right the fuck up and clear the mind completely. I can't recommend taking a hot bath, with a book, salts and a strong alcoholic drink more to men who just want to recharge and unwind.

Today, I took all of that charged up energy and released it into the world.

Starting with inviting a lover of mine over.

The sex was great, very animalistic. I dominated the fuck out of her. Letting myself get lost in the moment, allowing both of our masculine and feminine energies to dance with each other.

After she left, I had to go slightly out of town to meet someone who wanted to buy one of my golf bags.

Figuring this would be an opportunity for an adventure and to explore an unfamiliar city, I packed my camera, loaded up some books and drove. Unsure of what the rest of the night had in store.

The deal went well enough. After we parted ways I looked up on my phone "Used Book Stores", I love hunting through a used bookstore, you never know what you may find and I find the old ladies that work at these places to be among the sweetest people you'll ever meet.

After getting cut off in traffic, almost turning down the wrong side of a oneway street (One-ways are confusing as fuck) and pulling an illegal u-turn because iPhone GPS sucks. I eventually made it to the store.

The old lady that worked there was incredibly charming and sweet, I had about 20 books I was looking for and she helped me with every single one. I loved how I could name an author and she knew the book automatically, even the obscure books I wanted she knew about.

The store had 3 of the books I was looking for and the lady recommended me some nearby stores that might have what I was looking for.

I got (these books are all from Goldmunds Best Books Read In 2017 List (http://goldmundunleashed.com/25-of-the-b...ks-i-read/)

The Power Of Myth - Joseph Campbell

The WayWard Bus - John Steinbeck

Praise Of Folley - Desiderius Erasmus

I made the short 5-minute drive to another used book store and this lady was much, much different.

At first I thought she was cold because she didn't even offer to help me look for the books I wanted. Instead she pointed to the sections.

While I was wrapping up looking around, she became more open and animated. I think she was just used to idiots or annoying people, or just bored. Whatever.

I grabbed three books from this store,

Brothers of Karamazov - Fyodor Dostoyevsky (I'm slightly intimidated by the 700 page book)

Wisdom Of Life - Schopenhauer

Eugene Delacroix Reference Book - (Paintings of the famous artist Delacroix, very inspirational)



WB

After this stop, my stomach started rumbling so I made a short detour to one of my favorite Mediterranean places in the province, which I found out about while working landscaping because we'd stop there on our breaks and stuff ourselves before slugging away for 5-6 hours making the nearby Walmart look nice (does Walmart really have to have trimmed hedges?).

The bastard that works there is quite cheap though, hustled me into buying 2 bottles of water when I just wanted tap water. Also skimped on the sauce, but it's so good there I can't complain. Left there very satisfied and full of energy that I picked up in the bookstores and from the sex earlier.

Eager to share the energy. I drove home and hit up one of the local cafe's, it was about 8-9 at night and knew that tonight was open mic. I figured I might see some cool people or hear some interesting music/poetry.

The cafe was somewhat busy, I brought my camera with me and some sketchbooks in my messenger bag that I carry.

There was one chair available and it was at this fat girls table who wore ugly black lipstick and wore those STUPID fucking pants that fat girls wear. You know, the ones that are so high waisted that it conceals all of their blubber. Plus a belt long enough to hang yourself with to contain all of that fat from spilling over the waist of her jeans.

I made conversation with her a little, using her to warm up my "game" and get myself in that social flow for the night. Her other fat friend showed up who was equally boring and drab.

I asked them what brings them out tonight and the fat friend pointed to her friend and told me she dragged me out otherwise I'd be binge watching YouTube "Roosterteeth" videos -- what the fuck is that?

The fat girls irritated me even more as I saw them share some unhealthy snack together, literally taking bites together. Ugh.

Unfortunately, the musicians also sort of stunk. Nothing fucking original. All covers, even some good covers but fuck I wanted originality. Even if they sounded like ass, I wanted some original motherfuckers.

Amidst the disappointment, I noticed this asian girl not giving a FUCK, dancing with out a care in the world. She had this very free flowing way of dancing, I could tell it was completely raw and original.

I left the fat girls to eat the rest of their junk food and sat next to the Asian.

My "open" was how do you dance so freely? You are so into the moment, it's inspiring.

She perked up, and started talking about how she is able to free herself and let herself go. Then she dropped the bomb "I'm a sex therapist."

Cue conversations that revolved around sex, art, freedom and self expression. Right up my alley.

We ended up chatting for the remainder of the night.

I told her about my photography project and she wanted to be apart of it.

I'm not going to share the picture for this one but when I asked her what is one thing on your bucket list that you really want to do, but are afraid you will never get to do it?

She wrote down

"Dance naked infront of a large group of people."

This one was strange and I liked it, she was an original.

Unfortunately, my game tonight was off.

On one hand I felt I could have tried to escalate with her, and the other I'm not sure she was interested in that. We talked about sex and other conversations but I think that was mainly because she's a sex therapist and is very open to that sort of thing.

I invited her to a bar to change venues but she said she doesn't drink.

We talked a bit longer unit the place closed, she gave me her email and parted ways.

I think one of my problems with my game is that I get too wrapped up in interesting conversations with girls.

This asian girl was a great example of this, I found her so interesting but because I found her interesting I forgot to actually try to seduce her. Then when I say to myself "I should seduce her" it's already too late and I'm afraid it will come off as awkward.

In the future, my game has to be more "sexual" so to speak. I can ask the interesting questions and have the interesting conversations after sex.

I also think I have some deep rooted sexual limiting beliefs that are inhibiting me from seducing women. Something I never had to overcome with Tinder because with Tinder the seduction is pretty much taken care of (for the most part). I need to investigate this further and figure out the mental-blocks.

If I could re-do the interaction with the asian girl, I would have been more flirty and less serious/deep. When she asked me how I have sex I should have told her

"Why don't you find out"

And I should have moved her to another area in the cafe. If I moved her to a couch, sat next to her and started rubbing her back or something I might have been able to seduce her.

I do think she wanted sex, and I do think she thought about having it with me but I needed to move things in that direction and take initiative which I didn't. Sex doesn't happen without a force guiding it, there needs to be movement of the body. Sexual tension isn't born out of being stationary.

Overall though, today was a great day. I came away a better man and that to me is a win.



You know it's fucking cold when birds let you get right up close to them and they don't even budge.

Thread needs to be renamed '1st Element's Game Journey', not 'Quitting Tinder Accountability Thread'

You have to have a more playful vibe. Stop thinking, shut your logical brain off, and just focus on having a good time with them. You have to create the romantic atmosphere out of nothing. Make her talk about personal, emotional, but always positive things; the more she talks; the more exited she gets; the more horny. As she gets more exited, seduce with your gaze while your body language remains relaxed and dominant. You don't really have to talk.

If you want the girls that aren't sluts your game will need to be adjusted. You're also going to have to take your time with some of these girls and risk getting attached in the process.

If the girl wants a real connection before sleeping with you, you've possibly found good GF material.

What are you looking for exactly?

Quote: (01-03-2018 02:40 PM)xxx Wrote:  

Would you say you look like him? I'd say that's a 7 and I read you were Indian.


And as far as girls go, would you say that they're 7.5s or 8s?

I'll take those 7.5's or 8's all day long, if anyone has an extra one laying around let me know.

Pussied out tonight, was at a restaurant eating and saw 3 girls in the corner talking.

My dick wanted to approach but my mind came up with every reason in the book not to.

Shit.

Good news is I haven't used Tinder for 4 days now.

Bloody hell, Tinder is looking so good right now. (I'm not going to cave. Instead, I'm going to read.)

I want to fuck lmao.

Last night I met this Slavic couple at the bar, they were cool people and the girl was fire. Man, she dressed so well and was so feminine.

European girls are my weakness and it's a fucking shame I can't find any around here.



Yes please!

Also, I finished Slaughter House Five by Kurt Vonnegut today. Good book, I definitely reccomend it.

Quote: (01-04-2018 12:35 PM)xxx Wrote:  

Very innocent looking girl. Doesn't look the type to sleep around.

   

Quote: (01-01-2018 01:23 AM)BadgerHut Wrote:  

Strongly support this thread. I deleted Tinder a few weeks ago; I instantly felt better about myself.

I found it was functioning as something akin to pornography - it gave me a false impression that I had a shot at all these chicks I was swiping on, when the actual matches were low-quality and flaky. I realized that the things I would need to do to improve my Tinder game (get better photos and write an improved profile) required the same life-work that going out and meeting girls, so I decided to just cut it out entirely and force myself to meet girls in public.

Put another way, I allowed Tinder/other swipe apps to take my time and mental energy I should have been using to get my life right and game in real life.

Also found what someone else said in another thread, "there's no better way to kill your sense of self-worth than to swipe on one of these apps for 15 minutes." I would let a good day of momentum get undone with a few minutes of mindless swiping before bed, not matching with the girls I really wanted. In public I can approach those girls and at least I have a sporting chance.

I concur with you, Badger. Tinder is no good longer term, especially as a sole method to get girls. I perused it last year for a bit with no success. At the same time was going out daygaming hard and was getting prettier girls on dates. I quit Tinder for good and am not going back. Tinder does have a host of problems with it, from being an addictive, intermittent rewards scheduling behavioural system (akin to a primitive one-armed bandit in a casino) to personal growth inhibitory system, to adversarially self-selected system, as per Krauser's observation in Daygame Infinity (p 55), to quote:

"Adverse selection. An unusually large proportion of the girls you'll find on Tinder are suffering from some form of personality disorder. Normal people shy away from abnormal behaviours, and for women in particular, parading enticing photos of themselves to strangers on the internet clashes with the core female characteristics of modesty. Look at how normal women dress on your daily commute, in the office, or out shopping. Each of them is carefully managing contrary impulses to (a) look pretty but (b) not look easy. Think also of how many times you've seduced a girl, and your primary difficulty has been surmounting her opposition to being seen as too easy. [...] Tinder isn't quite as flagrant as those Thai go-go bars where each girl parades topless in front of the room with a small number pinned to her panties so man can inform the waitress which girl they will pay for sex. Nonetheless, it's still essentially flagrantly advertising a girl's willingness to find sex, and thus, neurotypical girls are instinctivelly repelled by it. This doesn't mean "all Tinder girls are whores", but it does mean the percentages skew away from neurotypical and lean more towards dysfunction."

Quote: (01-04-2018 12:17 AM)the1element Wrote:  

Quote: (01-03-2018 11:32 PM)Mig Picante Wrote:  

I find this 'camera game' thing a bit strange, I don't get what you're trying to do with it?
If it's to push you into talking to people I think you have been able to do that.

You're approaching these women under the guise that it's for a photo project. Instead approach them indicating you are attracted to them and want to date/fuck them.

IMO you're making your intentions unclear.

[...]

Approaching a girl in a cafe with such clear intent

A) Creates a reputation especially if you visit often

B) You might get some girls bite, but actually sealing the deal I imagine would be hard because there would be a high flake rate.

C) Such an approach doesn't suit the vibe.

I think a lot of people get stuck in the whole

"Hi, I saw you and think you're cute I want to talk to you"

[...]

For myself, walking up to girls with such a direct opener would just run me down. You have to make it fun.

The1element, I found your angle an interesting one. I think I can relate to that for I've been doing day game and street photography which, more or less, included taking pictures of people.

However, I'm afraid Mig Picante is right - trying to blend the two is not running proper game. It's a multi-layered, sophisticated way to protect your ego and self-esteem from rejection. You're utilising a buffer to avoid from real, raw feedback. You should be able to run game without props like that, otherwise it's snake seduction at best, even if you lay a girl for you're not communicating your intentions clearly. Pretending that you're interested in taking pics of a girl, whereas, in fact, trying to get in her panties is an epitome of a beta boy. A typical thing in college is where a boy (that's why he isn't a man) wants to get into girl's panties under the pretence of helping her with her homework. That's not, in my opinion, manly (even if, eventually, you get laid). It's a typical way of going around, inventing surrogate tactics, beating around bush, to avoid in-your-face, stinging reality of harsh rejection. Meaning, a boy (still) hasn't grown real balls.

If you keep going with your 'camera game', you might, with time, experience unresolved tensions of being fake (with yourself) and experiencing a melt-down down the road when such a sophisticated house of cards comes tumbling down. I'd recommend to go all-in, accept harsh rejections, and grow quickly. Accept the pain, accept you're not all you think you are. In the long run, you'll win and grow.

In respect of your A, B, C - this again the same thing! Your mind is trying turbo-hard to wriggle itself out from facing the reality and rejection. My observations and experience is that:

Approaching a girl in a cafe with such clear intent

A) Creates a reputation especially if you visit often

If you do it right, no-one will know or care, even if, so what? Cafe is a social space and designed for people to interact. I got banned from a major food store for running, admittedly, too much blatantly visible day game. Ah, well, one less store to go to.

B) You might get some girls bite, but actually sealing the deal I imagine would be hard because there would be a high flake rate.

Imagination can be a great thing, but how can you tell if you've never tried? Some will, some won't. That's the essence of game. And what is high flake rate, really? Realities are, if you get 1 bang out of 50 approaches, you're doing pretty good, with all prerequisites in place (reasonable looks, height, style, body language, etc.). Still better ratio than the number one needs to swipe through on Tinder (as long as you want to bang younger, hotter, tighter - 7+ in looks).

C) Such an approach doesn't suit the vibe.

Nonsense. Total nonsense.

I think a lot of people get stuck in the whole

"Hi, I saw you and think you're cute I want to talk to you"

Some do but that's not the point. The over-focus on what to say I call lexical bias - it's more how you deliver, than actual words. They are important but not as much as we believe. Some sets in which I was I said complete bullshit but my attitude, confidence and body language were spot on and these features won the set, not exact phrasing and right words (a typical beginner mistake to think). After all, human race been fucking for hundred of thousands of years, long time before we developed capacity to speak.

Quote: (01-07-2018 10:11 AM)ksbms Wrote:  

Normal people shy away from abnormal behaviours

News flash. It's a narcissistic selfie world we live in and online dating is merely an extension of that, hence Tinder trying to pivot over to being more of a quasi-Facebook where women can just "hang out". It isn't considered an abnormal behavior anymore. (And seriously, at this point what IS abnormal behavior? Miley Cyrus shares photos of herself squatting and pissing by the side of the road like trailer-trash one moment and the next moment she's nurturing talent on The Voice on national TV like some sort of clean-cut soccer mom.) Of course, some sites have more of a red-light-district (Tinder) or dimestore reputation (POF) than others.

Roosh said it in his New Year's Day live broadcast. Our culture has pretty much bottomed out. There's hardly any lower for things to go. So I would bet you 9 times out of 10 if you night-game a chick she's already on Tinder anyway. You've just decided to go after her old-school style but you're not accessing some mythical "higher quality" woman who has too much modesty and self-dignity to put herself on display. And let's face it, if she's in a club she's on display anyway, just analog vs. digital.

Quote: (12-30-2017 12:47 AM)the1element Wrote:  

I read Goldmund's camera game book earlier today and I'm going to apply it tomorrow.

I am way out of the loop but I just realized Goldmund is the dude who wrote the post about photographing girls in NYC a few years ago thread-37641.html


.....so he actually wrote a book on camera game? Ha never would have guessed. I remember that post from years ago.

Quote: (01-07-2018 10:35 AM)ksbms Wrote:  

Quote: (01-04-2018 12:17 AM)the1element Wrote:  

Quote: (01-03-2018 11:32 PM)Mig Picante Wrote:  

I find this 'camera game' thing a bit strange, I don't get what you're trying to do with it?
If it's to push you into talking to people I think you have been able to do that.

You're approaching these women under the guise that it's for a photo project. Instead approach them indicating you are attracted to them and want to date/fuck them.

IMO you're making your intentions unclear.

[...]

Approaching a girl in a cafe with such clear intent

A) Creates a reputation especially if you visit often

B) You might get some girls bite, but actually sealing the deal I imagine would be hard because there would be a high flake rate.

C) Such an approach doesn't suit the vibe.

I think a lot of people get stuck in the whole

"Hi, I saw you and think you're cute I want to talk to you"

[...]

For myself, walking up to girls with such a direct opener would just run me down. You have to make it fun.

The1element, I found your angle an interesting one. I think I can relate to that for I've been doing day game and street photography which, more or less, included taking pictures of people.

However, I'm afraid Mig Picante is right - trying to blend the two is not running proper game. It's a multi-layered, sophisticated way to protect your ego and self-esteem from rejection. You're utilising a buffer to avoid from real, raw feedback. You should be able to run game without props like that, otherwise it's snake seduction at best, even if you lay a girl for you're not communicating your intentions clearly. Pretending that you're interested in taking pics of a girl, whereas, in fact, trying to get in her panties is an epitome of a beta boy. A typical thing in college is where a boy (that's why he isn't a man) wants to get into girl's panties under the pretence of helping her with her homework. That's not, in my opinion, manly (even if, eventually, you get laid). It's a typical way of going around, inventing surrogate tactics, beating around bush, to avoid in-your-face, stinging reality of harsh rejection. Meaning, a boy (still) hasn't grown real balls.

If you keep going with your 'camera game', you might, with time, experience unresolved tensions of being fake (with yourself) and experiencing a melt-down down the road when such a sophisticated house of cards comes tumbling down. I'd recommend to go all-in, accept harsh rejections, and grow quickly. Accept the pain, accept you're not all you think you are. In the long run, you'll win and grow.

In respect of your A, B, C - this again the same thing! Your mind is trying turbo-hard to wriggle itself out from facing the reality and rejection. My observations and experience is that:

Approaching a girl in a cafe with such clear intent

A) Creates a reputation especially if you visit often

If you do it right, no-one will know or care, even if, so what? Cafe is a social space and designed for people to interact. I got banned from a major food store for running, admittedly, too much blatantly visible day game. Ah, well, one less store to go to.

B) You might get some girls bite, but actually sealing the deal I imagine would be hard because there would be a high flake rate.

Imagination can be a great thing, but how can you tell if you've never tried? Some will, some won't. That's the essence of game. And what is high flake rate, really? Realities are, if you get 1 bang out of 50 approaches, you're doing pretty good, with all prerequisites in place (reasonable looks, height, style, body language, etc.). Still better ratio than the number one needs to swipe through on Tinder (as long as you want to bang younger, hotter, tighter - 7+ in looks).

C) Such an approach doesn't suit the vibe.

Nonsense. Total nonsense.

I think a lot of people get stuck in the whole

"Hi, I saw you and think you're cute I want to talk to you"

Some do but that's not the point. The over-focus on what to say I call lexical bias - it's more how you deliver, than actual words. They are important but not as much as we believe. Some sets in which I was I said complete bullshit but my attitude, confidence and body language were spot on and these features won the set, not exact phrasing and right words (a typical beginner mistake to think). After all, human race been fucking for hundred of thousands of years, long time before we developed capacity to speak.

Hey man.

I’m going to break this up with some cool pictures, no one wants to read long posts without some sort of reward.

I think in this case, I am using it as a way to self-protect my ego from rejection. I also think i genuinely have an interest in the project and I definitely have an interest in photography.

There’s nothing pretending about it.

If I have a connection with one of the girls I take a photo of, I’m going to ask her if she wants to grab a drink with me. Simple as that.

That’s all “Camera Game” is. You take a picture, if you have a connection and you bring her to a venue. It’s really no different than approaching and saying that you think she’s cute or whatever, she’s either going to think you’re attractive or not and that can be sensed with the vibe.

Helping with homework isn’t the same thing. Homework is doing something for her, under the pretence that she will reciprocate your generosity. There’s nothing I’m doing for “her” with camera game. I’m doing it for myself. I’m not trying to please her.

Camera game a side.. (and truthfully, I don’t want to get in a pissing contest about it. We can break it down all day if we want to but I think that’s a waste of time and won’t do much to help the other people on this forum)



One of my favourite paintings, it stands 40 feet tall and is INCREDIBLY powerful… I know it’s just two colors but the paint is so evenly spread and the line is so straight on the canvas. This is one you have to see in real life. In this day and age, you could re-create it easily but back in the 60’s this was a difficult painting.

Back to the post.


Here’s some personal thoughts.

I DO think I need to rip the bandaid off and start getting my ego rejected and killed. I did some reflecting on this last night, I’m afraid to approach because my ego is in the way and it doesn’t want to be hurt or found out.

Another PART of the problem is my area, I live in a university town but my type of girl (European for the most part) are no where to be found. The girls I typically approach are generally more reserved and less-experienced. Which is why I need to start travelling and eventually find a city to chill in for a bit. I definitely do think I AM part of this problem, I could be putting more effort out thats for sure. One approach a day isn’t much.

The OTHER part of the problem is living with my mom, she’s a very anxious person and I think living with her affects me. When I go away on trips, I find it takes about a week to shed the bad habits I pick up from her. Then I come back home after the trip and I find it very shocking how much the negativity affects me and I “see” myself affected.

When I live with her or spend time around her, I’m less free-flowing and when I get to that state of flow I find her presence brings me away from it. Again, this is my OWN fault but I definitely feel this contributes. Interestingly enough, I just had something else come to my mind. This post has been pretty self-reflective so far…

I had a different childhood, I wouldn’t call it “bad” there were parts where I thought how nice it would be to end it. I did one time try to “see” what hanging myself was like..this is kind of deep. I didn’t expect to write this but fuck it. I took my shirt collar of the shirt I was wearing and placed it on the bar of the benchpress in our basement and then brought my legs up. I still remember the feeling of my throat closing and tightness. Instantly though, I realized that I didn’t want to die and put my feet down. That’s the closest I’ve ever gotten. I want to say I was just “curious” but I don’t know. I don’t think about it or really put much thought into it.

Anyways, my childhood was different. My mom and dad did not get along at all but my dad stuck it out for my sake. My mom was controlling and very domineering and my dad had no frame in the relationship. My mom grew up with two alcoholic parents and her father was a brute, he killed the family pet out of anger and also supposedly molested my brother. She has her fair share of issues being through 3 partners which she had a kid with each (my brothers). She’s a weird lady, hard to really say what it is but I know growing up I used to hate being home because my parents would always fight. I used golf as an outlet for a while but then as I got older and I moved to video games where I became a self-pitying loser with no self-esteem or anything.

I wonder if living with my mom, I’m still somehow putting myself into that state of mind I had when the family lived together. She has her moments even now, but I think she knows I won’t deal with her domineering personality or any of the shit my dad put up with. I still wonder though, perhaps the reason I feel so “negative” when I’m with my mom is because of all of these past emotions being brought up in my self-conscious. Perhaps, in some way I still feel like a kid and teenager by living with her.

I know that’s a good amount of detail about my life, but for some reason I felt compelled to write that.



It’s just a simple sketch, but I think it shows some of Picasso’s genius. His ability to draw and change the way his subject looks with just a few lines. I love the use of the dove as the hair, it’s a simple enough technique but the execution is superb.

I’m not saying if I removed my mom from my situation and lived on my own without her help that I would magically become a man but I do think it would make the process easier and I do know from past experience that every time I’ve gone on a trip for longer than a few weeks I’ve felt like I was shedding my anxiety and adopting more of a fun outlook on life.

I also think to myself how can you BE a MAN if you still suck on your mothers tit (not literally lolol). It’s contradictory. You tell yourself you’re a man but you go home to mommas cooking. Is that manly? This is part of the reason for my big trip I have planned for later this year. I need to be a man, I need to struggle and learn how to be a man. I can think of no greater way to become fully self-sufficient than to challenge myself with a massive road trip.

So let’s try to make an action plan of how I can get PAST all of these issues.

If I was to make the perfect plan it would be.

A) Move or Travel. Get out of the city and out of my moms. Also, find where the girls I’m very attracted go to. It’s obviously European girls so I need to figure out where I can find these “Europeans”.

B) Exercise (This is a BIG problem for me. I’m lean but skinny, There’s no excuse I just don’t exercise and I don’t know why. I’ve tried before but I just stop. The best thing I’ve done is challenge myself to ride my bike for 100km and I ended up doing it with an average speed of 21km/hr with a 5 minute stop to eat the lunch I packed)

C) Approach. It doesn’t matter how just learn to do it and learn how to seduce. Now that I’m off Tinder I find that I really have no idea what I’m doing for the most part. I was letting Tinder do all of the work.

D) Continue reading. This is big, reading books helps me a lot especially to get out of my own mind. My world view is definitely shaped by the books I read (in a good way).

E) Be more fun. This is kind of hard for me. I read this and I think “how to be fun?” I know I can do it but to get in that playful mindset, I find it difficult.

F) Assert my will on others. This is a problem I’ve been finding lately as well, I generally let others decide my will…sort of. I do my own thing, but in a confrontation I’ll turn the other cheek and do whatever I want. In truth, a lot of things don’t bother me. If someone says some shit to me I don’t really care because it just rolls off my back. I’ve had guys bump into my on purpose when out at night and I never picked the fight, I always figure Karma will deal with them but maybe I need to be less passive. If someone BLATANTLY disrespects me like pushes me then yea, I’m going to fight but it takes A LOT for me to throw my fists up or cause confrontation. In someways I wish this would change, in others, I don’t really care. I think if something bothers you, then bring it up but if it doesn’t then don’t bring it up.

I’m very good at keeping my cool and being calm-collected. It is true, a lot of things that bothers others..I could care less about. I’ve always looked at it as I could spend my energy on more useful matters.

G) Create. Ah, for some this may not be a big deal to others but for myself I have to be creating. If I don’t focus my artistic tendencies on something I feel lost and off.

H) Get Reckless. I think this one might be a symptom of the “imposter syndrome”. I’ve had some wild nights (they all started from approaching). I’ve done some interesting things, but I wish I was more reckless. I was reading a memoir on Errol Flynn (My Wicked, Wicked, Ways is the book it’s really interesting and full of raunchy stories and reckless behaviour). Mr. Flynn would do pretty crazy shit, like make a living in Papa New Guinea by fishing with dynamite, fucking the captain of the armies wife which was the captain of the army he WAS apart of and somehow later in life end up as soldier fighter in the Japanese army which he had to escape from because he wasn’t a true citizen.

I have the blood in me (My dad was a reckless fuck with lots of crazy stories) but again, I think I’m holding myself back and I think my mom is part of the reason.

Funny story, when I visited Montreal for two weeks I got kicked out of the hostel I was staying at because I moved all of the beds on these boring ass girls who were so prude and stuck up that I just needed to fuck with them but it took me a week of staying there to get into that fun playful mentality that sometimes fucks other peoples days up.

Fuck, two sexy girls just sat sort of close to my area in this cafe. I’m going to approach and I’m gonna try not to weasel my way in with the camera this time just to see what happens.



I’ll take all please and the car too. Girls with good style are fire.

So I approached.

Rejected.

Asked what they thought about the paintings on the wall.

Some people you connect with, others you don't. I didn't feel any sort of connection.

Did you do anything fun last night?

"Watched Netflix"

Great.

If you're going to stay in, do something interesting don't just watch mindless garbage.

I need a better framework for game.

Have to re-read Day BANG by Roosh.

It's like art, you learn how to draw super-realistic sketches perfectly and then you develop your owns style. I'm trying to skip the basics and go straight to my own style which doesn't work because I have no foundation of the basics and what I do learn, I'm re-inventing the wheel.

Edit: A cute girl just walked by and smiled at me, I have to go talk to her now. Opener "It's rude to smile and not say "hi"."

I'm going on a hike directly after this approach.