Probably to get it done in time before tax season and the holiday break.

Quote: (12-05-2017 12:16 PM)Pancho Wrote:  

Is it just me or do Americans have short time spans?

People tend to forget that George Bush and the Neo-Cons already cut taxes and jammed through a similar bill when he first got into office.

Guess what happened? He trashed the economy and we almost went into a great depression in 07 and 08.

The recession in the late 2000's had nothing to do with tax cuts, it was due to the housing crisis. Bush made it easier for Latinos and other minorities to buy houses through subprime mortgages (which were backed by the federal government) and housing market/loan deregulation so they could vote for him in 2004. When they started defaulting in massive numbers in 2007 (because they shouldn't have been given mortgages to begin with), it caused the entire economy to tank.

Blaming recessions on tax cuts is typical left-wing economic illiteracy. Merely removing the Obamacare individual mandate will stimulate the American economy like you wouldn't believe. Shifting the tax burden to unproductive civil servants and industries in blue states (like the universities) and away from productive middle- and working-class citizens in red states isn't just good economic policy, it will permanently weaken the Democrats and the left.

This may have been mentioned upthread, but I just found a link that proves once and for all that blue states are not subsidizing red states.

http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and...05-to-2014

The tl;dr version: the vast bulk of the money that blue states are supposedly sending to red states are Social Security and Medicare payments. This is because the Boomer generation disproportionately lived and worked most of their lives in blue states but are now choosing to retire in red states due to better weather and a lower cost of living. Social Security and Medicare payments are paid at the individual level and are not subsidized on a state-by-state basis.

In other words, if a New Yorker lives and works in New York their entire life but retires to Florida, money will seemingly flow from New York to Florida. This is not a blue state subsidizing a red state, it's a blue state resident relocating to a red state and collecting the entitlements that they're owed.

If blue states are not happy about this arrangement, they're more than welcome to lower the tax burdens in their own states so that their retirees don't have to move halfway across the country just to be able to afford to live.

Quote: (12-05-2017 01:11 PM)Matt Forney Wrote:  

The recession in the late 2000's had nothing to do with tax cuts, it was due to the housing crisis. Bush made it easier for Latinos and other minorities to buy houses through subprime mortgages (which were backed by the federal government) and housing market/loan deregulation so they could vote for him in 2004. When they started defaulting in massive numbers in 2007 (because they shouldn't have been given mortgages to begin with), it caused the entire economy to tank.

Yes - also important to remember this was all initially set in motion with Bill Clinton in the mid-90's strengthening the Community Reinvestment Act, which set the framework to encourage such subprime lending. Then Bush, under the guise of "compassionate conservatism" raised the HUD's goal for minority home-ownership even higher, which ultimately just sped up the process and caused the economy to collapse sooner.

Quote: (12-05-2017 02:18 PM)Synezthetic Wrote:  

Quote: (12-05-2017 01:11 PM)Matt Forney Wrote:  

The recession in the late 2000's had nothing to do with tax cuts, it was due to the housing crisis. Bush made it easier for Latinos and other minorities to buy houses through subprime mortgages (which were backed by the federal government) and housing market/loan deregulation so they could vote for him in 2004. When they started defaulting in massive numbers in 2007 (because they shouldn't have been given mortgages to begin with), it caused the entire economy to tank.

Yes - also important to remember this was all initially set in motion with Bill Clinton in the mid-90's strengthening the Community Reinvestment Act, which set the framework to encourage such subprime lending. Then Bush, under the guise of "compassionate conservatism" raised the HUD's goal for minority home-ownership even higher, which ultimately just sped up the process and caused the economy to collapse sooner.

Bingo - Thanks Forney and Synezthetic. Loose credit markets f'd up housing. I know I bought property and have gone through ups and downs as a result of this baloney. I've been punished for being a good owner.

Underwriting - it's the key practice that makes lending viable. Without underwriting, and the ability to simply deny loans, we send the wrong signals into housing markets forcing prices to go up way too fast, but also drop way too fast given availability of money rather than more grounded economic principles of supply and demand.

Look at student lending, where non-existent underwriting has led to a runup in college costs and unproductive degrees because of guaranteed loan access.

If we just allowed for real underwriting standards on Real-estate and College lending, our organic marketplace would make a nice environment for buyers and sellers.

BUT NO, the LEFT politicized both of those lending markets and turned a lot of good folks lives upside down as a result.

Lefty Economists need to stop this madness and just let the real estate and education markets run their own natural course.

Quote: (12-05-2017 12:19 PM)Pancho Wrote:  

Quote: (12-05-2017 05:47 AM)godzilla Wrote:  

Its honestly hard to find good analysis of this plan that's not left wing bias.

You know why its hard? Because nothing about this plan is actually good. There is a reason why they want to jam this through without any analysis, because it horrid. This will only benefit the 1%, the rest of us will foot the bill down the road.

That's cool but you didn't read the bill and not all is bad.

The corporate tax rate will most def be good for rich folks.

A higher standard deduction and elimination of deductions will level the playing field.

The repeal of the obamacare tax is good for young folks who are subsidizing healthcare. Young people simply dont need to purchase expensive health insurance in their 20s.

The property deduction is $10,000. New Jersey is screwed for having insane property taxes but some states could respond by lowering income taxes and raising property taxes to offset the loss of SALT deduction.

The actual amounts states get from the government in total.

https://beta.usaspending.gov/#/

Looks actually fairly split among red and blue states.

Quote: (12-05-2017 09:14 PM)godzilla Wrote:  

The corporate tax rate will most def be good for rich folks.

It will not only increase GDP, but increase demand for labor, thus being good for rich people and the stable portion of middle class, but best for the lower class and those who have a hard time finding a job.

Notice I'm not talking about the leftist "trickle-down" notion, because corporations aren't rich people. Corporations, on the whole, are owned by all classes, employ all classes, and transact with all classes.

The fact that Red states collect more in Federal benefits just shows Red states have friendly policies for the poor. Republicans are kinder to the poor than Democrats are.

This tax plan is just step 1 for helping the poor. With a lower corporate tax rate, Trump can start raising tariffs and quotas against other countries, giving our domestic production a tremendous cost advantage. Trump's plan was to always lower domestic taxes and raise international taxes to bring back production to the USA (and thereby jobs).

America was built on tariffs and low domestic taxes. China used this policy against us to great effect to crush us over the past 30 years. The plan is a proven time-tested winner, but our politicians are traitors owned by corporate interests who are actively trying to sell us out for shekels. They will be destroyed via the Trump machine and America will make a massive comeback.

Anyone who does not support this tax plan is an idiot or a sucker. There is a reason why 80% of America's rich voted for Hillary. They do NOT want taxes lowered, they want it high so they can continue to offshore production and not worry about domestic competition.

I really wonder what will happen to Californians that deduct 25-40k of property tax.

For west LA owners on a home at 1.5 - 3 mil (which btw doesn't get you that much) they would lose any where from 15k-100k a year from this tax plan due to cap on interest and property tax, assuming that they don't have a business.

This would hurt high income non business owners in places like California the most.

Will there be another flood of californians to colorado/arizona/texas? and how will the state and local governments react, will they lower taxes or will they just let the market adjust house prices resulting in lower property tax and interest.

Quote: (12-06-2017 12:12 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

The fact that Red states collect more in Federal benefits just shows Red states have friendly policies for the poor. Republicans are kinder to the poor than Democrats are.

How do you know it's not because there are more poor people and less rich people as a percentage of the population?

Quote: (12-06-2017 01:33 PM)8ball Wrote:  

I really wonder what will happen to Californians that deduct 25-40k of property tax.

For west LA owners on a home at 1.5 - 3 mil (which btw doesn't get you that much) they would lose any where from 15k-100k a year from this tax plan due to cap on interest and property tax, assuming that they don't have a business.

This would hurt high income non business owners in places like California the most.

Will there be another flood of californians to colorado/arizona/texas? and how will the state and local governments react, will they lower taxes or will they just let the market adjust house prices resulting in lower property tax and interest.

Many are car poor and house rich, they'll be forced to sell, I just hope they are too broke to move to Arizona.

^^ For most, arizona would be the easiest option, especially the ones already well into their 40s.

This could possibly be the most devastating bill for california. On top of the capped interest and property tax, then new tax overhaul caps interest furhtuer on second home(many homes are bought and rented out, especially condos). On top of this you are now required you live at least 5 years in order to avoid paying capital gains tax. A very large number of homeownders(possibly 15% or more) have not lived 5 years in these houses which means they can't even sell due to the capital gains tax. These numbers are even higher for homes that are millions of dollars.

This is going to be one giant shit storm. I know alot of you are thinking - "great fuck those california lefties," but remember that some of the california repubs are up for reelection com nov, although i am not sure what the number is and of course there is no republican senators.

Also if you are in your 40s in La, bay area and you are making 170k and your wife brings in 135k amounting to about 17k family income after tax per month, you are not considered rich or that you have had any unique success. Those are what the salaries are, all it means is you just didn't fuck up your early years and staying through the same type of job, moving up each time after a couple of years.

I just want a tax plan that will result in nice highways, clean parks, and keep 'spergy folks from posting on forums by getting them help they need.

Also, what's the REAL unemployment rate? Those Bureau of Labor numbers have been fake since Barry Soetoro's election.

Well it's hard for me to be sympathetic to people who laughed when the guy in pittsburg lost his steelworking job or the guy in Bama that lost his trailor manufactuering job or the guy in any other "flyover state" aka "dumbassistan" lost a job because ot their nasty ideology.

It's not as though they haven't brought all this on themselves.

They thought they could play the tax write off game for the rest of their lives and when they are ready to retire just cash out and move to a red state where they'd start working on turning it blue.

I lived in the cucked capital of the US known as California for 8 years and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving group of people.

I feel bad for the patriots there but maybe this combined with new immigration policies will allow real Americans to take back the Golden State after enough time and pressure.

Their shitty leaders will be forced to unfuck their state.

Again, I do feel bad for the patriots but California can break off and drown for all I care.

^^^At least you're somewhat sympathetic to me, part of me smiles when a liberal house burns down in the NorCal fires. (I kid)

But there's gonna be some tough times ahead for us Californians, we're fucked.

Good news is, we're creating a repeal of the gas tax that just recently went into effect.

Also there was a huge uproar on suggested legislation on "metering" cars.

Leftist reaction to this bill is complete insanity. They are saying it will kill thousands. I've seen the idiotic argument from the previous page about causing a recession numerous times too (no economist worth a damn would correlate a tax cut and recession). The funny thing is the top bracket isn't cut under the house plan and goes down by 1% under the Senate version, which refutes the class warfare bullshit they are spouting.

Far from perfect, but the vast majority of Americans will pay less taxes, those who pay more are primarily high earners in high tax states (fuck em). I look forward to a few extra thousand in my pocket.

Quote: (11-03-2017 02:57 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

^ The economists are the ones who've sold us down the river. A country is nothing without tariffs. There is zero benefit to controlling a large territory without regulating the goods that enter or leave it.

Free trade only benefits the mega wealthy who are able to fly around the world in search of slave labor. Free trade is destructive and a proven failure for the middle class. The logical end game of free trade is the return of slavery.

Bringing back a quote from one of the early pages, what Samseau states here is something that has been made very obvious over our lifetimes and especially if you remember the 1970s and 1980s as a recent comparison to the post 1990s decline of the United States into the type of country that most in the world had already turned into.

It's also why, a few years back, I turned from calling myself a libertarian. I saw the natural endgame of libertarianism as being a 1 world currency and gov't because that's the only way it makes sense in terms of "free trade". We have realized that if there is such a thing as an actual "country," you sabotage it every time you create policies that favor the chamber of commerce. The natural response to this is always some shit like "But look at the great iphone or galaxy S you have, or that great HDTV, for cheaper and cheaper!" while rapidly the middle class erodes, welfare claims go up, and a single job won't pay the average joe enough to make ends meet. I'd like to add also that I am not in the class of the average joe, I just love the truth and my country. (Guess who many of my well-to-do friends voted for while I tried to tell them these things? Yet they invoked the idea of being more American, ha)

I'm not calling it slavery (he used the word to prove the point), but my point is that we've done the experiment, look around people, we have the answer.

Very interesting video.

It's nice to see a rare politician standing up for the American people and democracy.

Quote: (12-10-2017 07:46 AM)Suits Wrote:  

Very interesting video.

It's nice to see a rare politician standing up for the American people and democracy.

"Wah wah Blue states actually have to pay federal taxes again"

Too bad bitch, get ready for the assraping.

Also the estate tax is absurd because people pay income taxes, captain gain taxes, and property taxes their entire life. Then when they die they aren't allowed to give it to their kids without being taxed for an enormous sum again?

If they want to tax the rich the Dems should propose a 1% net worth tax for the top .1% of wealth, otherwise they're all bluster.

^ I was gonna say, yeah, stop spending so much and you won't have to worry about who what when where why of TAXING, your favorite fuckin' thing, Larson

More shuckin' and jivin' away from the real issue, which is you guys spending us into 20+ tril debt

Glad the Federal Gov't doesn't have to subsidize Sanctuary Cities through SALT Deductions again.

Quote: (12-10-2017 06:25 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (12-10-2017 07:46 AM)Suits Wrote:  

Very interesting video.

It's nice to see a rare politician standing up for the American people and democracy.

"Wah wah Blue states actually have to pay federal taxes again"

Too bad bitch, get ready for the assraping.

Also the estate tax is absurd because people pay income taxes, captain gain taxes, and property taxes their entire life. Then when they die they aren't allowed to give it to their kids without being taxed for an enormous sum again?

If they want to tax the rich the Dems should propose a 1% net worth tax for the top .1% of wealth, otherwise they're all bluster.

LOVE it. As fellow New Englander, I am truly enjoying seeing these liberals squirm in the Northeast and California. This tax bill is ingenious in the sense that it hits blue state voters right in their wallets:

- Goodbye SALT deductions.
- Goodbye property tax deductions over $10K
- Goodbye mortgage interest deductions up to $1M

To the sanctimonious limousine liberals of Cambridge, Newton, and other equally hypocritical communities: better be ready to pay up!

I'm very concerned about a flood of Californians into red states due to the change in SALT taxes. There are a lot of states hanging on the edge that can't afford it.

If one of the reasons you purchased a house was to get a refund from Uncle Sam every year, you had no business "purchasing" said house.

My worry is if people do flee their houses, who will be scooping them up for potential pennies on the dollar? Will this lead to an even greater influx of Chinese and Persians with bags full of cash?

That should worry us just as much as the migration to AZ, TX, and CO.