Quote: (09-18-2017 04:36 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Fuck me, my mood has taken a serious turn for the worse, since days got shorter. I've ordered a Philips light therapy lamp. Thanks for the tip TLoZ, really hope it helps.

Good idea. Make sure you use it correctly and consistently, as described in the OP -- about same time every morning, not long after you wake up, for 30 minutes at the correct setting and distance to get 10,000 Lux. Which Philips device did you get?

Quote: (09-18-2017 08:28 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Quote: (09-18-2017 04:36 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Fuck me, my mood has taken a serious turn for the worse, since days got shorter. I've ordered a Philips light therapy lamp. Thanks for the tip TLoZ, really hope it helps.

Good idea. Make sure you use it correctly and consistently, as described in the OP -- about same time every morning, not long after you wake up, for 30 minutes at the correct setting and distance to get 10,000 Lux. Which Philips device did you get?

I got a Philips Blue Light, which I know you don't recommend, but I want to test it because it has some interesting research for people who suffer from concussions and I had a concussion some time ago.



I also plan on doing a weekly spa visit where they have both a large white-light therapy bed and an infrared sauna.

I am going to try one of these this winter. I have some bad problems getting the winter blues too. From spring to fall I am on fire but it seems starting with the fall time change I start to slip. I've been this way since highschool, grades at the beginning of the year were great. Towards the end of the 1st semester I would have to struggle. The 2nd semester would start bad and I would snap out of some spring. I am noticing the same patterns at work as well. Some years, I am OK, but other I feel like doing nothing but hibernate until spring.

One issue I see with the recommended use and my mornings is I generally get up, cleaned up, dress and rush out the door. Does anyone have any experience using one, say, an hour after waking? Or possibly two after I hit the gym in the morning?

Two questions:

1. I do have issues with afternoon drowsiness and troubling falling asleep at night, however, I wake up well after sunrise year-round and I feel perfectly sharp/energized in the morning after I'm up. That in mind, would I benefit from this?

2. What's the difference between this and an ordinary indoor light? Is it just a lot brighter?

re: afternoon drowsiness

What does your diet and caffeine consumption look like?

Quote: (09-19-2017 10:09 PM)Delta Wrote:  

Two questions:

1. I do have issues with afternoon drowsiness and troubling falling asleep at night, however, I wake up well after sunrise year-round and I feel perfectly sharp/energized in the morning after I'm up. That in mind, would I benefit from this?

2. What's the difference between this and an ordinary indoor light? Is it just a lot brighter?

What are you eating for lunch? I used to have that problem when I used to eat out for lunch. If you are eating a ton of carbohydrates, I would recommend cutting that out. Just eat meat, eggs and vegetables at lunch and see what happens.

Time to dust of my light pod. I've got it plugged in next to my desk at work as I am first in I normally put it on for 15 minutes before everyone else gets in.

When do other people use their lights first thing as you wake up or within the first hour of being awake?

Quote: (09-19-2017 05:01 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

I got a Philips Blue Light, which I know you don't recommend, but I want to test it because it has some interesting research for people who suffer from concussions and I had a concussion some time ago.

The blue lights don't have as strong a track record as the full spectrum light boxes, but I'm sure you will see some benefits from this. Use it at the brightest setting (200 Lux, which is supposed to correspond to 10,000 Lux of white light) for 30 minutes every morning.

Quote: (09-19-2017 09:26 PM)IvanDrago Wrote:  

One issue I see with the recommended use and my mornings is I generally get up, cleaned up, dress and rush out the door. Does anyone have any experience using one, say, an hour after waking? Or possibly two after I hit the gym in the morning?

An hour after waking is fine, but don't go any later than that. Two hours after waking is too long.

Quote: (09-20-2017 08:11 AM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Quote: (09-19-2017 09:26 PM)IvanDrago Wrote:  

One issue I see with the recommended use and my mornings is I generally get up, cleaned up, dress and rush out the door. Does anyone have any experience using one, say, an hour after waking? Or possibly two after I hit the gym in the morning?

An hour after waking is fine, but don't go any later than that. Two hours after waking is too long.

I'll need to redo my morning routine to get the light in earlier. Thinking about it, it must be the earlier the better. I've been leaving it too long.

Quote: (09-20-2017 08:09 AM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Quote: (09-19-2017 05:01 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

I got a Philips Blue Light, which I know you don't recommend, but I want to test it because it has some interesting research for people who suffer from concussions and I had a concussion some time ago.

The blue lights don't have as strong a track record as the full spectrum light boxes, but I'm sure you will see some benefits from this. Use it at the brightest setting (200 Lux, which is supposed to correspond to 10,000 Lux of white light) for 30 minutes every morning.

If this doesn't work then I switch to one of the recommended in the thread.

I'm using this because I read a study specifically recommending blue light for post-concussion fatigue.

Quote: (09-20-2017 12:05 AM)redbeard Wrote:  

re: afternoon drowsiness

What does your diet and caffeine consumption look like?

Quote: (09-20-2017 12:59 AM)IvanDrago Wrote:  

Quote: (09-19-2017 10:09 PM)Delta Wrote:  

Two questions:

1. I do have issues with afternoon drowsiness and troubling falling asleep at night, however, I wake up well after sunrise year-round and I feel perfectly sharp/energized in the morning after I'm up. That in mind, would I benefit from this?

2. What's the difference between this and an ordinary indoor light? Is it just a lot brighter?

What are you eating for lunch? I used to have that problem when I used to eat out for lunch. If you are eating a ton of carbohydrates, I would recommend cutting that out. Just eat meat, eggs and vegetables at lunch and see what happens.

Don't use caffeine and my lunch varies, though it usually contains some form of carbs.

Just did some reading up on food coma, and there is a ton of conflicting information out there. Basically every major food component in existence is blamed by one source or another (carbs, fat, sugar, protein, salt, and excessive volume all came up as culprits from different sources). What I do know is that I consume very little sugar and still get wicked food coma, so that's not it at least in my case.

I may try out the low carb thing for experimental purposes, but I don't think I could keep it up long term, as it's just about impossible to get a decent meal at my cafeteria consisting of only meat and veggies, and I'd honestly rather just deal with food coma than prepare my own lunches.

Still wondering if bright light can be beneficial for those who don't suffer from morning sleep inertia.

Quote: (09-20-2017 06:49 PM)Delta Wrote:  

Still wondering if bright light can be beneficial for those who don't suffer from morning sleep inertia.

The short answer is yes. Bright light therapy regularizes the full sleeping/waking circadian rhythm but its single strongest effect is actually on sleep initiation; proper entrainment with the light box makes sleep initiation extremely rapid, regular, and reliable. Since sleep initiation is what you are reporting difficulty with, there is an excellent chance you can benefit from BLT.

Of course this should go hand in hand with proper sleep hygiene: don't eat late (ideally nothing for the last 4 hours prior to bedtime); no caffeine past the afternoon; make sure your room isn't hot; install and use f.lux on any electronic devices you look at after sunset; bedtime should be at approximately the same time every night.

If you do all this, and combine it with bright light therapy, there is every chance that you will experience regular, restorative sleep with rapid initiation, correct sleep structure through the night, and sustained, even energy levels through the day. That's where you want to be day in day out.

I've read through almost the whole 12 pages-

Is there good research on light box versus sunshine?

I'm currently in Dar es Salaam, it wouldnt be a stretch for me to simply step outside and sit in the sun for 25 mins at around 7am. Its almost on the equator.

If this box performs as espoused here on the forum I would gladly pay the price of a new car for it.

I've had difficulty sleeping for as long as I can remember, as if I'm constanly jet-lagged and I cannot help but think that poor sleep has been the source of nearly all my problems in life, which are as numerous as the descendants of Abraham.

Generally I go through phases of obessive effort to try and fix my sleep only to eventually give up and resort to simply 'living with it'

Recently became interested in this when I had my T-levels checked for the first time: 371 ng/dL and the other was 261 ng/dL. The first is about the average for a 100 year old man, whilst the next is commensurate with those of a soy-fed male feminist. As you know, sleep quality and duration is one of the prime determinant of your T-levels.
http://elitemensguide.com/testosterone-levels-by-age/

I'd recently made a breakthrough in the 'falling asleep' department by maintaining an obsessive sleep hygiene checklist, covering windows with trash bags and using f.lux. and I can generally fall asleep within 30 mins now, as opposed to previous 2hr-4hrs. Still wake groggy and wake up during the night though, thus I've been reading this thread with a keen interest.

EDIT: the reason I'm skeptical about this is and dont simply buy in is that I've tried prolonged sunshine exposure, at the same time everyday, for a large number of consecutive days, without much change to my sleep quality .I completed what's called the Appalachian trail- a 2200mile trek on foot from Georgia to Maine. As you can imagine, you get sunshine every day at the same time, as well as all day long while you're walking. Why would the box be more effective than that?

Because you aren't staring at the sun and your optic nerve isn't being blasted in a focused why by nearly direct light. Being in the sun in the morning is great and helps to wake me up, I live near the equator, but this light right next to my eye forced the brain to set the sleep timer. Just being outside in the morning isn't anything like having the light right next to your face for 30 minutes when you wake up.

Worrying about my eyes, I've done some reading.

I Think the verdict is out on blue light:

The European Eye (EUREYE) Study "found that the combination of blue light exposure and low plasma concentrations of antioxidants was also associated with the early stages of AMD, which are common in the population, and that blue light exposure in middle age might be more damaging than at younger ages."

(AMD is accute Macular degeneration), or irreversible blindness.

A study at the Surrey University Chronobiology Center demonstrated that blue light (479 nm) is only about as efficient as ordinary white fluorescent light in inducing a physiological response (melatonin suppression), even for young people. Studies at Harvard Medical School and Rush University Medical Center were unable to demonstrate that increasing the proportion of blue wavelengths in a light source improved its effectiveness in shifting the circadian rhythms of humans.

So blue light could severely damage your eyes, and is not effective in its goal?

Most of the above research is linked from
http://www.sunnexbiotech.com/
They obviously have a bone to pick, they have a product to sell (green light) and can benefit from dissing white/blue light.

Their essential claim is that
1) blue light doesnt work and will screw your eyes
2) bright full spectrum light is effective but will screw your eyes
3) Their product (green light) is as effective as full spectrum 10k lux at only 300 lux and wont screw with your eyes

They cite research papers to substantiate all their claims, though the reference on 2) is a bit unclear, and unsurprisingly, the research on 3) have notes on them that they were funded by Sunnex biotech.

Can anyone comment on eye damage from light box treatment or the green light alternative ?

For all you poor bastards thats ever thought theres something wrong with your sleep/wake cycle, read these:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3020104/
(The heavy reading version)

http://www.sleepreviewmag.com/2015/05/need-know-non-24/
(Light reading version)

They couldve written the diagnosis of Free running sleep by looking at me.

From the heavy reading the consensus is that the treatment for sleep cycle disorders is threefold:

1) Light therapy- In the morning with a Lightbox, plus in the evening: Avoiding artificial light and especially blue light a few hrs after sunset
2) melatonin supplementation
3) sleep hygiene

Fuckit I'm getting a box. I am extremely excited by this.

I'm considering a box when we're farther into the cold season.

I'd be concerned about melatonin supplementation affecting your natural melatonin production. I've been following an erratic schedule (no fault but mine) and can't fall asleep without 3-5mg of melatonin 3ven when tired...need to wean myself off and spend more time relaxing before bed.

I'm getting a normal Philips white light box instead of the blue light one.

I want to say, if you can get reliable sunshine, I don't think there is any need for a box or a comparison really.

Nothing beats our good old Sun. We're literally evolved for the sun, children of the sun, without it no life. A box can't replace that.

Quote: (09-30-2017 08:09 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

I'm getting a normal Philips white light box instead of the blue light one.

I want to say, if you can get reliable sunshine, I don't think there is any need for a box or a comparison really.

Nothing beats our good old Sun. We're literally evolved for the sun, children of the sun, without it no life. A box can't replace that.

This sounds great in a forum post but is terrible in execution.

This is like saying "oh who needs a zinc supplement when you can eat spinach! lolz BTFO supplement companies!!!"

Does ANYONE roll out of bed and immediately walk outside into the sun, for 30 minutes, everyday?

I don't care where you live, even Kona would agree there are days that you wake up before the sun comes up or it's overcast and the sun's rays are nowhere to be found. Don't even get me started on winter or Daylight Savings Time.

On top of that the habit of sitting in front of the Sunbox is infinitely easier than going outside. I don't know what you're smoking but when I wake up I don't want to go through the effort of putting clothes on, going outside, and standing in the sun.

Instead, I get to sit in my apartment and relax. Using my Sunbox is a highlight of my morning routine. I fix a nice coffee, crack open a book, flip on the box, and turn my brain on. 30 minutes later I feel like a new man, ready to kick ass.

I highly recommend the Sunbox to everyone, especially on a forum of travelers.

The old rule is that time change adjustments take 1 day for every hour of change. I estimate the Sunbox cuts that in half. I worked a rotation for most of last year and this was a lifesaver during time zone changes.

Relevant,

2017 Nobel prize for medicine awarded yesterday:
https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/...press.html

I have, for decades suspected that my own internal clock is radically different from a regular schedule, which makes me chronically sleep deprived; my light box is on its way.

Hi Lizard, thank you so much for your insight! I just bought my Sunlight Jr today with a hope that it can fix my sleep pattern. I feel struggling to fall asleep, and find it hard to have a deep sleep also. Just get like 5 hours of sleep a night and feel like I'm just at REM phase 'cause I dream a lot but feel unrestful when I wake up.

If any of you guys have nice experience with this lamp in regulating your sleep, please share! It does lift up the mood of people like me, who feel really depressed sometimes due to being unable to have a good night of sleep. Thanks!

Quote: (10-13-2017 12:54 PM)10moonshome Wrote:  

Hi Lizard, thank you so much for your insight! I just bought my Sunlight Jr today with a hope that it can fix my sleep pattern. I feel struggling to fall asleep, and find it hard to have a deep sleep also. Just get like 5 hours of sleep a night and feel like I'm just at REM phase 'cause I dream a lot but feel unrestful when I wake up.

If any of you guys have nice experience with this lamp in regulating your sleep, please share! It does lift up the mood of people like me, who feel really depressed sometimes due to being unable to have a good night of sleep. Thanks!

Starting 2 months ago I was waking up every night between 2 and 4AM and unable to fall back asleep for at least one hour. This went on essentially every night for a month, which I had never experienced before in my life.

After not getting better for a month I purchased the Sunlight Jr and used it for 30 minutes every morning beginning at 7AM. Within just several days my sleep returned to normal and I have since felt more productive and alert in the mornings.

I owe a hearty thanks to LOZ and his recommendation.

Quote: (10-13-2017 11:49 PM)Chevalier De Seingalt Wrote:  

Quote: (10-13-2017 12:54 PM)10moonshome Wrote:  

Hi Lizard, thank you so much for your insight! I just bought my Sunlight Jr today with a hope that it can fix my sleep pattern. I feel struggling to fall asleep, and find it hard to have a deep sleep also. Just get like 5 hours of sleep a night and feel like I'm just at REM phase 'cause I dream a lot but feel unrestful when I wake up.

If any of you guys have nice experience with this lamp in regulating your sleep, please share! It does lift up the mood of people like me, who feel really depressed sometimes due to being unable to have a good night of sleep. Thanks!

Starting 2 months ago I was waking up every night between 2 and 4AM and unable to fall back asleep for at least one hour. This went on essentially every night for a month, which I had never experienced before in my life.

After not getting better for a month I purchased the Sunlight Jr and used it for 30 minutes every morning beginning at 7AM. Within just several days my sleep returned to normal and I have since felt more productive and alert in the mornings.

I owe a hearty thanks to LOZ and his recommendation.

Thanks Chevalier, it's good to know. Do you go to bed every night at the same time? My schedule at college is just so bad that I can hardly go to bed early. I don't know what is worse, going to bed late, but at the same time every night; or just go to bed early/late randomly and irregularly?

Thanks for this thread TLOZ. I'm looking at getting one of these lamps. From what I've seen in your previous posts, my understanding is that it should be full spectrum, 10,000 lux, fluorescent and not LED, and have a long effective range (how long do you recommend?).

What other essential or 'nice to have' things should I be looking for to make sure I'm really getting a good product?

How long do the bulbs generally last for until they burn out? I guess I should also look for a lamp that I can buy replacement bulbs for.