Quote: (02-12-2012 11:31 AM)Gixxermuscle Wrote:  

Quote: (02-12-2012 10:36 AM)kosko Wrote:  

The logistics kill LAs potential. The ability to venue change on a whim and have a rough mental area map down of spots to take down like the above poster noted would be difficult to pull of in LA. From all the threads on this forum on LA that has been the common theme, no diss to the quality there tho!

Yes it is unfair to compare TO to NYC, it is the cancer that plagues this City. Toronto has penis envy more than any other place in the globe, it somehow views its self as worthy candidate that should be on the same level as LDN and NYC!?

It would be great to hear comparisons on equal Cities such as Chicago, Sydney, Stockholm.

One thing that I think shoots TO in the foot is that there isn't a lot of cool things to do. There aren't that many cool people in this City. The scene is quite small for a City of 5million. I am just an observer of this but it is a small number that is dominated by females... Not males. The majority of true trend setters usually bounce (To NYC) or totally divorce them selves from TO on a mental and physical level (bad example but think Drake).

Lastly Toronto small scene is Canadas national scene by default. NYC and LA are media centers of the USA but their cultures are not imposed on other parts of the nation (except Quebec which is culturally isolated and thus unique with its own vibe).

Ok, now I find myself having to defend Toronto. I really do not get this 'penis' envy I always read about regarding this city. People only talk about it in reference to the media, and the media loves to write about it. But I dont see it. I've lived here for 20 of my 28 years. Firstly, this city is 50% new Canadians, and of those most don't give a flying shit about comparing it to NYC. People are not as simplistic as these generalizations imply. Most people realize Toronto is what it is, I swear this 'envy' syndrome is made up by the media because people love reading about it.

There aren't that many cool people in this city? What does that even mean? 5 million peeps, generalizations like this are ridiculous. Is there a cool factor census being conducted.

I am convinced many people posting in this thread are not intimately familiar with this city or it's wide and diverse range of people. I work as a Private Investigator, and I have been all over this city, spending days in different neighbourhoods and strange places most people have no need to venture. From one end to the other. You cannot make generalizations. There are many different scenes here. There is also a TON to do, be it winter or summer. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes.

Toronto's most famous openly penis envier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaches_%28musician%29
"But if we're going to use motherfucker, why don't we use fatherfucker? I'm just trying to be even [to both sexes]"
-Penis envy in the context it is used by the previous posters basically means women wish they were men, like peaches. If there is a motherfucker that men use, then women should be exactly like men and get to use a fatherfucker. Sure it seems silly to write about when you try to have a relation with someone who is convinced they are basically a man without a penis your going to have headaches.

-The previous poster is bang on, the women in this city are very generic and boring, there are very few actual cool people in this city as far as women goes and it even extends to a large extent to men.

-I agree toronto has alot to offer just don;t come here for pussy, sex or dating its a hell whole for that.

I'm with Gixxer. I've defended Toronto far too many times on these forums so I'm not gonna go into detail again. But Toronto is a great city with more than enough hotties to go around. Sure it's nightlife isn't like Miami's, but that's because it has a lot more to offer and doesn't rely on it's nightlife to be considered a top city. Lots of good venues, lots of good looking girls, you just gotta know where to party. The constant trolling about Toronto being bad is getting ridiculous. I'm starting to think most of the people bashing on Toronto are just straight up failing to get laid here so they resort to blaming it all on the city.

Again, not saying it's the greatest city in the world to get your chop on. But come on, it's nowhere near as bad as people on here claim. But hey, that's better for some of us who actually have some luck in this city, more pussy to go around.

Went out last night to Muzik nightclub. It is one of these money/bottle service clubs that attracts a good crowd.
It was an ok night, I think in general I am done with the nightclubs. The place had a semi-douchebag crowd, the girls were nicely dressed but alot of dudes were dressed whack to say the least.
The night did not cost me much which is a good thing, a friend had a booth and we had the VIP treatment. My friend valet'd his new Benz truck, as we were leaving we stopped this czech hottie who was impressed by the car and claims she had the same one. I dropped some Czech on her, her eyes opened up wide with a smile and then she dropped her business card.

To the people that are raving about NYC, are you just talking about the Manhattan scene.?
What about Bronx, Brookly, Queens and Long Island.!

I read a study years ago that you have to earn over $60k / yr to survive in NY!

Toronto is a very interesting city, it has museums and a bit of everything for everyone.
Saying Toronto has hotties is just a joke. People who say this usually have low standards when it comes to women. an 8 in Toronto is like a 3-4 in most of europe. You see it as trolling to say Toronto lacks in the area of women, I could easily say your position is trolling as most posters here agree with my position and Toronto women being flakey or cold is one of the top google searches.

As for men complaining in toronto for not getting laid. No shit sherlock, when else are you suppose to complain about not getting laid when your getting laid. When do you complain about you're car not being good, when it is running fine or when it breaks down often. And its not like we are never getting any sex, but the amount of shit you have to go through to get it in this city often just isn't worth it compared to when you travel to other normal cities where getting sex is just significant;y easier.

If you're in the suburbs its not as bad but to pretend there is pussy to go around outside of social circle game is just a joke. There is a reason why mystery left toronto.

Quote: (02-12-2012 04:14 PM)misterstir Wrote:  

Toronto is a very interesting city, it has museums and a bit of everything for everyone.
Saying Toronto has hotties is just a joke. People who say this usually have low standards when it comes to women. an 8 in Toronto is like a 3-4 in most of europe. You see it as trolling to say Toronto lacks in the area of women, I could easily say your position is trolling as most posters here agree with my position and Toronto women being flakey or cold is one of the top google searches.

As for men complaining in toronto for not getting laid. No shit sherlock, when else are you suppose to complain about not getting laid when your getting laid. When do you complain about you're car not being good, when it is running fine or when it breaks down often. And its not like we are never getting any sex, but the amount of shit you have to go through to get it in this city often just isn't worth it compared to when you travel to other normal cities where getting sex is just significant;y easier.

If you're in the suburbs its not as bad but to pretend there is pussy to go around outside of social circle game is just a joke. There is a reason why mystery left toronto.

Dude, im sorry you are having such a hard time in T.dot. Personally I find the girls in general very approachable and never fail to score digets/bangs. It is about having swag and confidence and where you go. I also dont understand your statement about the suburbs having prettier girls. Most girls go DT to party or work, you find them all over. Saying an 8 in Toronto is a 3-4 in Europe is silly, the rating scale is fairly subjective for starters on an individual basis let alone if applied across countries, but even more so a HUGE majority of chicks DT are FROM Europe. This Friday I met a Brazilian girl, Polish girl and an Italian broad. Give it a rest with these generalizations, sour grape bro. Def higher concentrations of hotties elsewhere in the world but this is a major city with borads from around the globe.

For a North American city Toronto does not deserve this hate

Quote: (02-12-2012 04:14 PM)misterstir Wrote:  

Toronto is a very interesting city, it has museums and a bit of everything for everyone.
Saying Toronto has hotties is just a joke. People who say this usually have low standards when it comes to women. an 8 in Toronto is like a 3-4 in most of europe. You see it as trolling to say Toronto lacks in the area of women, I could easily say your position is trolling as most posters here agree with my position and Toronto women being flakey or cold is one of the top google searches.

As for men complaining in toronto for not getting laid. No shit sherlock, when else are you suppose to complain about not getting laid when your getting laid. When do you complain about you're car not being good, when it is running fine or when it breaks down often. And its not like we are never getting any sex, but the amount of shit you have to go through to get it in this city often just isn't worth it compared to when you travel to other normal cities where getting sex is just significant;y easier.

If you're in the suburbs its not as bad but to pretend there is pussy to go around outside of social circle game is just a joke. There is a reason why mystery left toronto.

This bold part is ridiculous.

Toronto does deserve some of the hate it gets, especially when torontonians try to compare themselves to NY, but it is widely exaggerated in this forum.

Quote: (02-12-2012 10:21 AM)Gixxermuscle Wrote:  

I live in Toronto, King West, and have been going to the clubs here for years. I've also traveled fairly extensively including living two years in West Palm Beach. I really do not understand the hate going on for Tdot right now. I go out virtually every weekend and always pick-up, grab numbers, or make out with chicks on the d-floor (no e-brag). I'm not into the bar/rock scene so cannot comment with regards to that, however when it comes to the clubs, you have to pick good venues. Stay away from Richmond, and the old club district, it is pure pure shit. Some on King West are now all sausage fests as well. However other places, like Bloke&4th recently, are 60- 70 percent chicks. I don't even run verbal game (it's hard in these venues obviously unless you go out to smoke), but rather go cave man style. Grab a girl (not just any broad, look for IOI's), be alpha as phuc about it, dance with them. Kiss them, grab digits, invite back, whatever. Caveman game works wonders in this scene, so long as you are in shape, dress well and fearless about it. I'm quite aggressive with this, twist a girls arm behind her back, squeeze their ass, just maintain a shit eating grin and be fearless. I will say I am ultra fit, this helps a lot, but I have less aesthetic buddies wheel girls EVERY weekend. YOu just have to be confident and aggressive. Girls in this city are less feminine than in SA or EE, and I find being very forward and masculine melts their cold hearts (again, I can't speak for rock/hipster girls, I dont meet them very often).

Toronto is nowhere near the top of having the highest per captia number of hot babes, but come on, it's also nowhere near the bottom. Chicks from all over southern ontario come to T.dot to see and be seen. The city is constantly importing attractive girls from neighbouring suburban regions who want to 'live and play' in the city.

I will agree though the liquor laws here are draconian and some of these clubs have horrible attitude and are overtly racist (I'm good looking, white. I have Asian friends get flat out denied entry.) Also, depends what ethnicity you are into, some clubs are all asian, some all persian, some all white college girls (my preference).

Girls will approach you in this city as well, and can be approachable. It's not this hopeless dark pit of despair some of you are making it out to be.

This is not my experience in Toronto at all. But I'm not going to dismiss out of hand (most) of what you say. The truth is that most of my clubbing has been in the Richmond and Adelaide area, though I've been venturing out of that area more and have found it a little better. So I have very little experience with King West. To be honest, I find it doubtful that a street just a couple blocks away could be so much better. Then again, I've seen 1Bliss also mention some clubs there as better places to go. So you may be right. But tell me, besides Bloke & 4th, which other places on King West are good? List some places and I'll make it a point to go and report back.

To be clear, are you saying that you pick up (take a girl home and bang) every weekend?

I find that doubtful, but I wouldn't rule it out if you're very good looking (and I don't just mean in very good shape) and white (I'll get back to this in a moment).

Then again, you said that you have "less aesthetic buddies" who get girls every weekend. So even if you're good looking, if what you're saying is true, it's not because of that that you're able to get girls every weekend.

I have my doubts about the caveman approach that you mention. I have tried similar things, without success. (I'm very good looking and also in good shape now, though I wasn't always.) Beyond my experience, everything I've seen in Toronto tells me that most women here are not going to respond well to this approach.

Another question. Is it obvious (by your dress, perhaps bottle service, etc.) that you have money? Do you think this could be a factor in your success?

Are you saying that women approach men at clubs, or are you saying that they approach in the daytime, or both? Random strangers? If you're saying that women approach in the daytime, then I'm going to think that you're trolling. Remember what I said about not dismissing most of what you say out of hand? Well, this is the exception. If you're saying that random women approach in the daytime, then I'm prepared to say that you're flat out lying.

On a somewhat different note, would you agree that, in the daytime at least (I think the same thing is truth of night, but let's leave that aside for now), women here tend show little interest in men? Do you think that Toronto is bad in terms of daytime eye contact between the sexes?

Back to race. Although I've seen white guys complain about Toronto women as well, it seems that it is disproportionately men of color who complain (I'm also non-white). I'm now wondering if race is even more of a factor than what I thought (white men are clearly the preferred men here). Thoughts?

I agree though that Toronto is nowhere near the bottom in terms of the hotness of the women. But like someone else has said, I'd rather bang 6s than not be banging 8s and 9s.

Quote: (02-12-2012 05:30 PM)Gixxermuscle Wrote:  

Quote: (02-12-2012 04:14 PM)misterstir Wrote:  

Toronto is a very interesting city, it has museums and a bit of everything for everyone.
Saying Toronto has hotties is just a joke. People who say this usually have low standards when it comes to women. an 8 in Toronto is like a 3-4 in most of europe. You see it as trolling to say Toronto lacks in the area of women, I could easily say your position is trolling as most posters here agree with my position and Toronto women being flakey or cold is one of the top google searches.

As for men complaining in toronto for not getting laid. No shit sherlock, when else are you suppose to complain about not getting laid when your getting laid. When do you complain about you're car not being good, when it is running fine or when it breaks down often. And its not like we are never getting any sex, but the amount of shit you have to go through to get it in this city often just isn't worth it compared to when you travel to other normal cities where getting sex is just significant;y easier.

If you're in the suburbs its not as bad but to pretend there is pussy to go around outside of social circle game is just a joke. There is a reason why mystery left toronto.

Dude, im sorry you are having such a hard time in T.dot. Personally I find the girls in general very approachable and never fail to score digets/bangs. It is about having swag and confidence and where you go. I also dont understand your statement about the suburbs having prettier girls. Most girls go DT to party or work, you find them all over. Saying an 8 in Toronto is a 3-4 in Europe is silly, the rating scale is fairly subjective for starters on an individual basis let alone if applied across countries, but even more so a HUGE majority of chicks DT are FROM Europe. This Friday I met a Brazilian girl, Polish girl and an Italian broad. Give it a rest with these generalizations, sour grape bro. Def higher concentrations of hotties elsewhere in the world but this is a major city with borads from around the globe.

For a North American city Toronto does not deserve this hate

Here's a few things I notice about the top Toronto players-

-They all either have amazing game or are good looking or a combination of both.

-A lot of them have social circles with plenty of attractive girls. Even though they mostly cold approach they still have options otherwise.

-Some of them have niches or specialty. For example one of my friends is amazing at salsa and meets a lot of very attractive women there. These niches have hot girls but they require effort to find.

-Toronto players slay a lot of dragons, along with hotties. I could not imagine a guy in Stockholm banging some of the girls my friends have.

-The friends who I know who have high standards often will have trouble finding attractive girls even though they might have a 5 that they opened up thats DTF. I see that with a Russian friend of mine who the Asians love.

Yes, it is possible to do well in Toronto but it requires around 3-4 times the effort it would in Stockholm or other cities in Europe.

The vast number of PUAs in Toronto should be evidence enough. About 150 showed up for the Jeffy Free Tour.

I'm heading to Atlanta right now so I'll compare to TO soon enough.

I don't know about other American cities but Atlanta should be a good starting comparison point.

In my humble opinion from doing lots of day game(very little night game because I'm underage) Toronto is difficult for daygame. Eye contacts is extremely rare. The difference in attitude from out of town girls to girls from Toronto is incredible. The out of towners are much more friendly.

Friendly fairly attractive girls > Bitchy hot girls.

The stunners walking around the mall at Eatons do nothing for me because they are near impossible to approach. Spend a day at Eatons and watch how fast attractive girls walk.

It doesn't help that there are 10 PUAs every day at the mall. Some of these guys are decent looking social guys who still slog every day to get a rare lay.

The only guys who get laid from the mall regularly are PUAs who've been doing this for many years(5-6). One of them is a coach who moved away from TO.

Quote: (02-12-2012 05:30 PM)Gixxermuscle Wrote:  

Quote: (02-12-2012 04:14 PM)misterstir Wrote:  

Toronto is a very interesting city, it has museums and a bit of everything for everyone.
Saying Toronto has hotties is just a joke. People who say this usually have low standards when it comes to women. an 8 in Toronto is like a 3-4 in most of europe. You see it as trolling to say Toronto lacks in the area of women, I could easily say your position is trolling as most posters here agree with my position and Toronto women being flakey or cold is one of the top google searches.

As for men complaining in toronto for not getting laid. No shit sherlock, when else are you suppose to complain about not getting laid when your getting laid. When do you complain about you're car not being good, when it is running fine or when it breaks down often. And its not like we are never getting any sex, but the amount of shit you have to go through to get it in this city often just isn't worth it compared to when you travel to other normal cities where getting sex is just significant;y easier.

If you're in the suburbs its not as bad but to pretend there is pussy to go around outside of social circle game is just a joke. There is a reason why mystery left toronto.

Dude, im sorry you are having such a hard time in T.dot. Personally I find the girls in general very approachable and never fail to score digets/bangs. It is about having swag and confidence and where you go. I also dont understand your statement about the suburbs having prettier girls. Most girls go DT to party or work, you find them all over. Saying an 8 in Toronto is a 3-4 in Europe is silly, the rating scale is fairly subjective for starters on an individual basis let alone if applied across countries, but even more so a HUGE majority of chicks DT are FROM Europe. This Friday I met a Brazilian girl, Polish girl and an Italian broad. Give it a rest with these generalizations, sour grape bro. Def higher concentrations of hotties elsewhere in the world but this is a major city with borads from around the globe.

For a North American city Toronto does not deserve this hate

I meant there is more of a hookup culture and house party culture in the suburbs and girls seem more open minded sexually to ons and snl than in toronto. Really, ever been to Sweden, it will change your opinion very quickly. Yes but the countries they come from are ones I'm not attracted to or ones most guys really think are hot like Italians or English or French. Sure there is a hot italian girl every now and then but for the most part they are nothing special and you have to look through maybe 50-100 ugly ones before you find one hot one or 3-5 do-able ones. In every club I go in T.dot its like 1 hot girl at best in each club, in places I been to in europe it like maybe 6.

The Brazilian girls I've met in toronto where all infected and nothing to brag home about.

I would most likely conclude that you have low standards (not meant as an insult or nothing) but you seem to think the girls are 2x hotter than I do, meaning a girl who I see as a 3 or 4 you see as an 8. In my eyes your scoring 3s and 4s and saying its easy to get girls in Toronto, well IMO its easy to get 3s and 4s anywhere, but I don't want 3s and 4s. In your eyes these 3s and 4s are hot 8s and 9s and approachable and nice and easy to score on, kind of like Deuce Bigalow was convinced all those fat chicks were knock outs and his friends just saw them as fatties, but maybe a bit of an exaggeration here.

You guys remember that picture of those Toronto guys mostly indian who in that picture were acting like the girls they had were like 9s and 10s when they were like 2s and 3s. Thats what comes to my mind.

Quote: (02-13-2012 07:55 AM)torontokid Wrote:  

Quote: (02-12-2012 05:30 PM)Gixxermuscle Wrote:  

Quote: (02-12-2012 04:14 PM)misterstir Wrote:  

Toronto is a very interesting city, it has museums and a bit of everything for everyone.
Saying Toronto has hotties is just a joke. People who say this usually have low standards when it comes to women. an 8 in Toronto is like a 3-4 in most of europe. You see it as trolling to say Toronto lacks in the area of women, I could easily say your position is trolling as most posters here agree with my position and Toronto women being flakey or cold is one of the top google searches.

As for men complaining in toronto for not getting laid. No shit sherlock, when else are you suppose to complain about not getting laid when your getting laid. When do you complain about you're car not being good, when it is running fine or when it breaks down often. And its not like we are never getting any sex, but the amount of shit you have to go through to get it in this city often just isn't worth it compared to when you travel to other normal cities where getting sex is just significant;y easier.

If you're in the suburbs its not as bad but to pretend there is pussy to go around outside of social circle game is just a joke. There is a reason why mystery left toronto.

Dude, im sorry you are having such a hard time in T.dot. Personally I find the girls in general very approachable and never fail to score digets/bangs. It is about having swag and confidence and where you go. I also dont understand your statement about the suburbs having prettier girls. Most girls go DT to party or work, you find them all over. Saying an 8 in Toronto is a 3-4 in Europe is silly, the rating scale is fairly subjective for starters on an individual basis let alone if applied across countries, but even more so a HUGE majority of chicks DT are FROM Europe. This Friday I met a Brazilian girl, Polish girl and an Italian broad. Give it a rest with these generalizations, sour grape bro. Def higher concentrations of hotties elsewhere in the world but this is a major city with borads from around the globe.

For a North American city Toronto does not deserve this hate

Here's a few things I notice about the top Toronto players-

-They all either have amazing game or are good looking or a combination of both.

-A lot of them have social circles with plenty of attractive girls. Even though they mostly cold approach they still have options otherwise.

-Some of them have niches or specialty. For example one of my friends is amazing at salsa and meets a lot of very attractive women there. These niches have hot girls but they require effort to find.

-Toronto players slay a lot of dragons, along with hotties. I could not imagine a guy in Stockholm banging some of the girls my friends have.

-The friends who I know who have high standards often will have trouble finding attractive girls even though they might have a 5 that they opened up thats DTF. I see that with a Russian friend of mine who the Asians love.

Yes, it is possible to do well in Toronto but it requires around 3-4 times the effort it would in Stockholm or other cities in Europe.

The vast number of PUAs in Toronto should be evidence enough. About 150 showed up for the Jeffy Free Tour.

I'm heading to Atlanta right now so I'll compare to TO soon enough.

I don't know about other American cities but Atlanta should be a good starting comparison point.

In my humble opinion from doing lots of day game(very little night game because I'm underage) Toronto is difficult for daygame. Eye contacts is extremely rare. The difference in attitude from out of town girls to girls from Toronto is incredible. The out of towners are much more friendly.

Friendly fairly attractive girls > Bitchy hot girls.

The stunners walking around the mall at Eatons do nothing for me because they are near impossible to approach. Spend a day at Eatons and watch how fast attractive girls walk.

It doesn't help that there are 10 PUAs every day at the mall. Some of these guys are decent looking social guys who still slog every day to get a rare lay.

The only guys who get laid from the mall regularly are PUAs who've been doing this for many years(5-6). One of them is a coach who moved away from TO.

If you are someone like me who aims for the hotties only then you see why I am in the predicament I am in.

Then you can see why that other poster of women swooming over him is just a joke, the only girls who do that here are 3s and 4s, fat or ugly types. I have yet to see a hot girl swoon over any guy or even hear of it from guys who are highly successful. Even the top toronto players are doing 3s and 4s with occasional hotties inbetween. which is why they eventually all leave

Quote: (02-12-2012 05:30 PM)Gixxermuscle Wrote:  

Quote: (02-12-2012 04:14 PM)misterstir Wrote:  

Toronto is a very interesting city, it has museums and a bit of everything for everyone.
Saying Toronto has hotties is just a joke. People who say this usually have low standards when it comes to women. an 8 in Toronto is like a 3-4 in most of europe. You see it as trolling to say Toronto lacks in the area of women, I could easily say your position is trolling as most posters here agree with my position and Toronto women being flakey or cold is one of the top google searches.

As for men complaining in toronto for not getting laid. No shit sherlock, when else are you suppose to complain about not getting laid when your getting laid. When do you complain about you're car not being good, when it is running fine or when it breaks down often. And its not like we are never getting any sex, but the amount of shit you have to go through to get it in this city often just isn't worth it compared to when you travel to other normal cities where getting sex is just significant;y easier.

If you're in the suburbs its not as bad but to pretend there is pussy to go around outside of social circle game is just a joke. There is a reason why mystery left toronto.

Dude, im sorry you are having such a hard time in T.dot. Personally I find the girls in general very approachable and never fail to score digets/bangs. It is about having swag and confidence and where you go. I also dont understand your statement about the suburbs having prettier girls. Most girls go DT to party or work, you find them all over. Saying an 8 in Toronto is a 3-4 in Europe is silly, the rating scale is fairly subjective for starters on an individual basis let alone if applied across countries, but even more so a HUGE majority of chicks DT are FROM Europe. This Friday I met a Brazilian girl, Polish girl and an Italian broad. Give it a rest with these generalizations, sour grape bro. Def higher concentrations of hotties elsewhere in the world but this is a major city with borads from around the globe.

For a North American city Toronto does not deserve this hate

I agree with this 100%. And I have very high standards, in fact I think it's a problem. My buddies actually tell me sometimes my standards are way too high if I disagree about a girl being hot or not. So no I'm not calling ugly girls in Toronto hot, believe me when I tell you I'm very judgemental when it comes to bitches looking good lol.

I hate when people say an 8 in Toronto is a 3-4 in Europe... how does that make sense if majority of the girls in Toronto are FROM Europe? Are you saying ugly girls from Europe are kicked out of their countries and sent to Toronto?

I don't know what it is with people hating on Toronto or having trouble with pussy here. Trust me it is NOT my favorite city, not even close. I can name you 8+ other cities I'd live in before Toronto, but it's not half as bad as people are claiming it to be.

If you live in King West and not getting laid, something's wrong with you or your game brotha. Don't take it the wrong way but try to adjust. Try something different, something new. If what you're doing now isn't working in Toronto, try something else.

^Girls in Toronto may come from a different part/region of Europe than those in the places many guys here visit. Plus under 30 I'm not even sure if european/whites are the majority given that 50% of toronto are direct immigrants and many non whites are born in Canada too, but the majority of older people are disproportionately white suggesting that the youths are dispropotionately non whites. The other logical reason additionally is that those girls in Europe know when to put down the cake. I recall In Norway seeing only 1 truly fat girl under 40 and she was german-american immigrant. So it could just be the white/european canadian girls do not take good care of themselves compared to their european counterparts who know when to put the fork down and workout. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto
"In 2006, people of European ethnicities formed the largest cluster of ethnic groups in Toronto, 52.6%,[86] mostly of British, Irish, Italian, and French origins"
-So if you're not into British/Irish chicks, or French and Italian chicks then it makes perfect sense you do not find Toronto girls attractive. And its true because I don't in general find any of these girls attractive sexually except the "really hot ones" because most of them are just very blah and average looking to me, nothing special. Now if the top ethnic groups were more representative other than just West Europe, then you'd have a point. The top european countries like czech, ukraine, russia, sweden/norway, etc are small minorities in toronto, the largest of that group is the russian and ukranians but much of central/ south/east europe and even south west and north europe is entirely unrepresented in this city.

I don't see threads lining up for bang Italy, bang Britain, Bang Ireland, or Bang France. and most of the France threads are guys focused on getting easy westernized arabic or north african girls, which only proves my point. The bang britain threads, the few that exist focus on the fact that British girls are known to be EASY, not really hot.

I also notice that the Italian, French all seem to come from the same region anyways. Ie. most the Italian in Toronto are from the central regions. Few blonde northern italians from Lombardia. Why is that significant. Well it is only the richest part, with Milan in it, and the fashion capital with the best looking girls who are of nordic descent mixed with Italian and are dispropotionately good looking. Its like the difference between having mid western and mountain west girls vs New York and Cali girls immigrating. Also few sicilian immigrants which are also imo better looking the central italians who are not imo just not as hot physically. The French ones are always from the north or central and very blah looking, nothing special, the kind of person who you'd walk into a room and completely not notice at ALL, few of the hotter ones mixed with German from the south or mixed with arab.

I just don't find alot of these girls attractive, so finding a hot one is half the challenge.

Quote:Quote:

This is not my experience in Toronto at all. But I'm not going to dismiss out of hand (most) of what you say. The truth is that most of my clubbing has been in the Richmond and Adelaide area, though I've been venturing out of that area more and have found it a little better. So I have very little experience with King West. To be honest, I find it doubtful that a street just a couple blocks away could be so much better. Then again, I've seen 1Bliss also mention some clubs there as better places to go. So you may be right. But tell me, besides Bloke & 4th, which other places on King West are good? List some places and I'll make it a point to go and report back.

To be clear, are you saying that you pick up (take a girl home and bang) every weekend?

I find that doubtful, but I wouldn't rule it out if you're very good looking (and I don't just mean in very good shape) and white (I'll get back to this in a moment).

Then again, you said that you have "less aesthetic buddies" who get girls every weekend. So even if you're good looking, if what you're saying is true, it's not because of that that you're able to get girls every weekend.

I have my doubts about the caveman approach that you mention. I have tried similar things, without success. (I'm very good looking and also in good shape now, though I wasn't always.) Beyond my experience, everything I've seen in Toronto tells me that most women here are not going to respond well to this approach.

Another question. Is it obvious (by your dress, perhaps bottle service, etc.) that you have money? Do you think this could be a factor in your success?

Are you saying that women approach men at clubs, or are you saying that they approach in the daytime, or both? Random strangers? If you're saying that women approach in the daytime, then I'm going to think that you're trolling. Remember what I said about not dismissing most of what you say out of hand? Well, this is the exception. If you're saying that random women approach in the daytime, then I'm prepared to say that you're flat out lying.

On a somewhat different note, would you agree that, in the daytime at least (I think the same thing is truth of night, but let's leave that aside for now), women here tend show little interest in men? Do you think that Toronto is bad in terms of daytime eye contact between the sexes?

Back to race. Although I've seen white guys complain about Toronto women as well, it seems that it is disproportionately men of color who complain (I'm also non-white). I'm now wondering if race is even more of a factor than what I thought (white men are clearly the preferred men here). Thoughts?

I agree though that Toronto is nowhere near the bottom in terms of the hotness of the women. But like someone else has said, I'd rather bang 6s than not be banging 8s and 9s.

WALL OF TEXT

Hey, to answer some of your questions;

I do not take a girl home and bang every weekend. It is 100% possible if you lower your standards, absolutely. 4-6's easy no problem, same night (within reason of course). There are so many insecure chicks. But to clarify, I do have very high standards and I get multiple numbers (7's + to my standards) every time I go out, and usually always make out with my top pick of the night at least the last few months I've been on fire with that ( I know that sounds exaggerated but I am dead serious). BUT same night super babe bangs are indeed more rare. With the super babes, they usually roll in packs of both guys and girls, and the cock blocking is somewhat difficult, especially if you are only rolling with a buddy or two. In those cases you leave her wanting more and BBM/text next day, meet up asap, and bang during week/next weekend. I'll be honest, I get pretty wasted by the end of the night, I love to party as much as I love swooping girls, so my end goal is not same night lay. I enjoy the chase, dating, build-up, bang and then start over.

Speaking of being wasted, this goes hand in hand with cave man game. I dont know what it is. It's all body language. YOu have to protrude the confidence of a king, be smiling, and look like you are the shit while having a blast. I find this easiest to do while rolling with a good buzz. Not to mention I find it fun as shit, so I am living it. I do get cocky. You see a girl give IOI's THAT is when you employ cave man. It's difficult if they have never even seen you. But you cannot care. That's the key in my eyes. I should preface this by saying cave man game I think also only works if you are very good looking, dressed stylish and in excellent shape. But if you have the right elements it's killer, and my favourite. Girls love it.

I swear to god this may sound unbelievable but an example of how this goes usually is this: I see a girl I've been eyeing walk by, she glances over at me (IOI) and walks right in front. I grab her elbow and pull her in ( I dont mean touch her elbow, I mean grab and pull, again IOI's are a MUST, otherwise you're a weirdo creep/rapist). NO hesitation. FYI I do this usually towards the last hour of the night when everyone has loosened up. Huge smile, HUGE smile (crest white strips, good breath, obv). "Hey, what's up?" HUGE SMILE. You gotta smile, grab elbow forcibly, but I mean ear to ear ,real, genuine grin. (Note, sometimes they act surprised or taken aback, most of the time I find this is a BS shit test to see if your confidence breaks. Just keep smiling confident as shit) idle chit chat for a few minutes (hows your night? Nice earrings (the only negs I toss are calling chicks boring, works like a charm). Whole time this is going down massive kino, massive smile. Hold both her hands, fold your hands in hers, lift them up, push them down, always smiling, while chatting. If you say nice earrings, grab them, touch the side of her face, or if she has a necklace, same deal, but touch her neck softly. Then after a few minutes, and further IOI's, mid conversation or so just turn her around so her bums into your crotch and just dance with her. Be in control. I like to twist their hand behind their back (ya like a cop, I just like this power move, I love making chicks submit, might not work for others, I dont know, girls call me aggressive, but they love it). Keep dancing for a bit, kino city. Then I will do something like spin em to face me, pull em super close HUGE SHIT EATING grin, face to face and tell them to kiss me. LOL I swear this shit works like a charm for me. If they dont at first they are usually smiling and wanting me to work it out of them. Just keep smiling ear to ear and press your forehead to theirs. I'm usually just a few inches from their lips while I tell them this. Half the time I do it anyway. Once that's done and they kiss you, it's game over. When I've been really hammered I've been redic aggressive, squeezing asses, tits (playfully not pervy, always playful like you are teasing, not coping a feel). Always a shit ass eating ear to ear grin though. My smile is always genuine because I am having a blast and dont give two shits at the end of the night because there are always other broads. Anyway, someone wanted an example, there you go.

Regarding money, I dress well, but not always 'upscale'. As I've mentioned I have an ultrafit physique (no e-brag), so I do everything I can to exemplify this advantage, while maintaining dress code. I get bottle service often, but not always. Beer held down to your side, chest out, swagger, shit eating grin, vibing to the music. These are the essentials. Also, I do in fact roll with some other handsome dudes, the reference to unaesthetic friends chopping is true, however they usually pick-up by chatting with the girls, and these girls are, as another poster guessed, 5,6's. That's not my style, I can't stand long talks in clubs, kills the vibe for me.

Richmond St suffers from a strong 905 ethnic concentration. I say suffer not to disparage other races, however I strongly prefer young white girls, and Richmond is dominated by persian, asian, south asian and blacks. Lately, Maison (lots of chicks, but mixed age.), Bloke&4th, F-Stop, Nywood, Hoxton, are a few places to go for white chicks (if that is what you are into). This Is London, Musik, etc is heavily European (have not been in a while to either mind you). Dolce is OK, pretty mixed, again have not been in awhile. Last few times I went lotta dudes. Cheval, Cobra (used to be awesome, if you love house music it's good, but its time passed years ago), Branthouse and Century Room are ok, often older chicks (22+) though. I prefer the first four I mentioned and a handful of others I'm gonna keep secret . Your venue makes all the difference in the world. A club with all brown dudes (no racist) and unaesthetic busted chicks will obviously give people visiting T.O a bad taste of what it has to offer. Most people are referred to Richmond, and I don't BLAME them for thinking T.Dot is shit, I would too with the quality those clubs offer. I can't stand that area. Forget it. Waste of a night. Knowing where to go is really key. King West may be shallow and pretentious but there are indeed babes in that area who want to see and be seen. Some of the doorman do discriminate against non-whites, happened to my friends at Maison and Bloke&4th.

If you are non-white, trying to pick up white girls I would imagine you will have a harder time. My asian friends strike out all the time with white chicks. IF you are Black I would suggest actually going to Loki Lounge (so I hear) or clubs on Richmond. White and Asian girls who are into blackguys go there. As a white guy, I find persian girls particularly attracted to me (I'm white, but look italian -as opposed to traditional anglo saxon even though that is what I am).

Regarding day time game, you are 100 percent correct, a chick approaching is rare, unless she is fugly. That is just the way it is. However YOU can approach them, IOI's as always. I've picked up in Metro, the beaches, on my motorcycle at the gas station, etc. It's very doable.


TL;DR
Cave man works like magic if you are good looking, ripped, stylish and the chick gave you IOIs.
Toronto, like any major city has babes
Richmond street is a shit hole, no wonder people judge Toronto harshly.
Girls dont approach often, but they are very receptive to approaches
Non-whites will def have harder time with white girls.

^Ok Gixer if your such a big man, I'll meet you in person and go out with you to the place of your choice, and if I see you bang all the hot girls you claim to be banging then I will pay you $50 and pay for all your drinks and your cover.

But first PM a picture of yourself, there may just be a small chance you look like brad pitt or something, but if you look normal the deal is still on.

"however I strongly prefer young white girls"
Never mind. If thats the demographic (Irish, Italians, Brits, French, Greek, Portuguese) you're going for you don't need nothing special to get them, with this group you can just be very straightforward and it requires little game. There girls are nothing to brag about in terms of looks.

Toronto has beaches now, LOL, what Ocean is in Toronto? ROFL. Don't tell me you call those swamps and dirty lake water with sand a beach.

All in all your comments do not seem as BS as I originally thought. Richmond is a shit hole and so is Adelaide, and I have been banned from many of those shit holes so I don't even bother going down there anymore. You're right girls don't approach unless they are fugly and many of the white majority females are highly receptive to approaches but many are stone faced bitches too. Your game is dependent on IOIs meaning girls are picking you not the other way around, you're playing safe game.
And Asians and Indians will have a tough time getting white girls (as I have yet to see any of these with a hot one) but blackguys have not much difficulty and I know quite a few black players who play white girls exclusively.

Quote: (02-13-2012 06:37 PM)Gixxermuscle Wrote:  

Quote:Quote:

This is not my experience in Toronto at all. But I'm not going to dismiss out of hand (most) of what you say. The truth is that most of my clubbing has been in the Richmond and Adelaide area, though I've been venturing out of that area more and have found it a little better. So I have very little experience with King West. To be honest, I find it doubtful that a street just a couple blocks away could be so much better. Then again, I've seen 1Bliss also mention some clubs there as better places to go. So you may be right. But tell me, besides Bloke & 4th, which other places on King West are good? List some places and I'll make it a point to go and report back.

To be clear, are you saying that you pick up (take a girl home and bang) every weekend?

I find that doubtful, but I wouldn't rule it out if you're very good looking (and I don't just mean in very good shape) and white (I'll get back to this in a moment).

Then again, you said that you have "less aesthetic buddies" who get girls every weekend. So even if you're good looking, if what you're saying is true, it's not because of that that you're able to get girls every weekend.

I have my doubts about the caveman approach that you mention. I have tried similar things, without success. (I'm very good looking and also in good shape now, though I wasn't always.) Beyond my experience, everything I've seen in Toronto tells me that most women here are not going to respond well to this approach.

Another question. Is it obvious (by your dress, perhaps bottle service, etc.) that you have money? Do you think this could be a factor in your success?

Are you saying that women approach men at clubs, or are you saying that they approach in the daytime, or both? Random strangers? If you're saying that women approach in the daytime, then I'm going to think that you're trolling. Remember what I said about not dismissing most of what you say out of hand? Well, this is the exception. If you're saying that random women approach in the daytime, then I'm prepared to say that you're flat out lying.

On a somewhat different note, would you agree that, in the daytime at least (I think the same thing is truth of night, but let's leave that aside for now), women here tend show little interest in men? Do you think that Toronto is bad in terms of daytime eye contact between the sexes?

Back to race. Although I've seen white guys complain about Toronto women as well, it seems that it is disproportionately men of color who complain (I'm also non-white). I'm now wondering if race is even more of a factor than what I thought (white men are clearly the preferred men here). Thoughts?

I agree though that Toronto is nowhere near the bottom in terms of the hotness of the women. But like someone else has said, I'd rather bang 6s than not be banging 8s and 9s.

WALL OF TEXT

Hey, to answer some of your questions;

I do not take a girl home and bang every weekend. It is 100% possible if you lower your standards, absolutely. 4-6's easy no problem, same night (within reason of course). There are so many insecure chicks. But to clarify, I do have very high standards and I get multiple numbers (7's + to my standards) every time I go out, and usually always make out with my top pick of the night at least the last few months I've been on fire with that ( I know that sounds exaggerated but I am dead serious). BUT same night super babe bangs are indeed more rare. With the super babes, they usually roll in packs of both guys and girls, and the cock blocking is somewhat difficult, especially if you are only rolling with a buddy or two. In those cases you leave her wanting more and BBM/text next day, meet up asap, and bang during week/next weekend. I'll be honest, I get pretty wasted by the end of the night, I love to party as much as I love swooping girls, so my end goal is not same night lay. I enjoy the chase, dating, build-up, bang and then start over.

Speaking of being wasted, this goes hand in hand with cave man game. I dont know what it is. It's all body language. YOu have to protrude the confidence of a king, be smiling, and look like you are the shit while having a blast. I find this easiest to do while rolling with a good buzz. Not to mention I find it fun as shit, so I am living it. I do get cocky. You see a girl give IOI's THAT is when you employ cave man. It's difficult if they have never even seen you. But you cannot care. That's the key in my eyes. I should preface this by saying cave man game I think also only works if you are very good looking, dressed stylish and in excellent shape. But if you have the right elements it's killer, and my favourite. Girls love it.

I swear to god this may sound unbelievable but an example of how this goes usually is this: I see a girl I've been eyeing walk by, she glances over at me (IOI) and walks right in front. I grab her elbow and pull her in ( I dont mean touch her elbow, I mean grab and pull, again IOI's are a MUST, otherwise you're a weirdo creep/rapist). NO hesitation. FYI I do this usually towards the last hour of the night when everyone has loosened up. Huge smile, HUGE smile (crest white strips, good breath, obv). "Hey, what's up?" HUGE SMILE. You gotta smile, grab elbow forcibly, but I mean ear to ear ,real, genuine grin. (Note, sometimes they act surprised or taken aback, most of the time I find this is a BS shit test to see if your confidence breaks. Just keep smiling confident as shit) idle chit chat for a few minutes (hows your night? Nice earrings (the only negs I toss are calling chicks boring, works like a charm). Whole time this is going down massive kino, massive smile. Hold both her hands, fold your hands in hers, lift them up, push them down, always smiling, while chatting. If you say nice earrings, grab them, touch the side of her face, or if she has a necklace, same deal, but touch her neck softly. Then after a few minutes, and further IOI's, mid conversation or so just turn her around so her bums into your crotch and just dance with her. Be in control. I like to twist their hand behind their back (ya like a cop, I just like this power move, I love making chicks submit, might not work for others, I dont know, girls call me aggressive, but they love it). Keep dancing for a bit, kino city. Then I will do something like spin em to face me, pull em super close HUGE SHIT EATING grin, face to face and tell them to kiss me. LOL I swear this shit works like a charm for me. If they dont at first they are usually smiling and wanting me to work it out of them. Just keep smiling ear to ear and press your forehead to theirs. I'm usually just a few inches from their lips while I tell them this. Half the time I do it anyway. Once that's done and they kiss you, it's game over. When I've been really hammered I've been redic aggressive, squeezing asses, tits (playfully not pervy, always playful like you are teasing, not coping a feel). Always a shit ass eating ear to ear grin though. My smile is always genuine because I am having a blast and dont give two shits at the end of the night because there are always other broads. Anyway, someone wanted an example, there you go.

Regarding money, I dress well, but not always 'upscale'. As I've mentioned I have an ultrafit physique (no e-brag), so I do everything I can to exemplify this advantage, while maintaining dress code. I get bottle service often, but not always. Beer held down to your side, chest out, swagger, shit eating grin, vibing to the music. These are the essentials. Also, I do in fact roll with some other handsome dudes, the reference to unaesthetic friends chopping is true, however they usually pick-up by chatting with the girls, and these girls are, as another poster guessed, 5,6's. That's not my style, I can't stand long talks in clubs, kills the vibe for me.

Richmond St suffers from a strong 905 ethnic concentration. I say suffer not to disparage other races, however I strongly prefer young white girls, and Richmond is dominated by persian, asian, south asian and blacks. Lately, Maison (lots of chicks, but mixed age.), Bloke&4th, F-Stop, Nywood, Hoxton, are a few places to go for white chicks (if that is what you are into). This Is London, Musik, etc is heavily European (have not been in a while to either mind you). Dolce is OK, pretty mixed, again have not been in awhile. Last few times I went lotta dudes. Cheval, Cobra (used to be awesome, if you love house music it's good, but its time passed years ago), Branthouse and Century Room are ok, often older chicks (22+) though. I prefer the first four I mentioned and a handful of others I'm gonna keep secret . Your venue makes all the difference in the world. A club with all brown dudes (no racist) and unaesthetic busted chicks will obviously give people visiting T.O a bad taste of what it has to offer. Most people are referred to Richmond, and I don't BLAME them for thinking T.Dot is shit, I would too with the quality those clubs offer. I can't stand that area. Forget it. Waste of a night. Knowing where to go is really key. King West may be shallow and pretentious but there are indeed babes in that area who want to see and be seen. Some of the doorman do discriminate against non-whites, happened to my friends at Maison and Bloke&4th.

If you are non-white, trying to pick up white girls I would imagine you will have a harder time. My asian friends strike out all the time with white chicks. IF you are Black I would suggest actually going to Loki Lounge (so I hear) or clubs on Richmond. White and Asian girls who are into blackguys go there. As a white guy, I find persian girls particularly attracted to me (I'm white, but look italian -as opposed to traditional anglo saxon even though that is what I am).

Regarding day time game, you are 100 percent correct, a chick approaching is rare, unless she is fugly. That is just the way it is. However YOU can approach them, IOI's as always. I've picked up in Metro, the beaches, on my motorcycle at the gas station, etc. It's very doable.


TL;DR
Cave man works like magic if you are good looking, ripped, stylish and the chick gave you IOIs.
Toronto, like any major city has babes
Richmond street is a shit hole, no wonder people judge Toronto harshly.
Girls dont approach often, but they are very receptive to approaches
Non-whites will def have harder time with white girls.

Ok, what you said is possibly true. I don't think you're trolling.

I won't pretend to be other than a novice at game, so I appreciate your insights about your approach.

I'll check out some of the King West places you mention (just to see what it is like, not because I'm particularly into white girls). I've tended to stay away because I heard it was expensive, but obviously it's better to pay more than to waste time going to places that are just no fun.

I actually don't see unattractive women approaching good looking guys. From what I've seen in Toronto they'd be too intimidated. But I may be wrong about this.

Everything you said makes sense, except one thing that I found odd. You say that Richmond clubs suck, and I agree with that. But then near the end you say that black guys should go to Richmond clubs (or Loki Lounge). I found this puzzling. Are you saying that Richmond clubs are good for black men but suck for men of other races? Or are you saying that as bad as Ricmond clubs are for everyone, black men would do even worse on King West (so that black men are better off skipping both Richmond and King West)? From what I've seen Richmond clubs suck for everyone.

I don't think Gixxer's experiences and the Toronto reputation are mutually exclusive.

Being in fantastic shape, dressing sharp, getting VIP bottle service, knowing the places to go, and hitting the girls during prime-time, are great tactics. Its smart, and even sounds like it should work most of the time.

Where the problem arises, having all those things fall into place, is one of the only scenarios that will produce results on a consistent basis. But that would work almost anywhere in the world. The ice princesses of Toronto, still roam about during the week with bitch shields set on maximum power.

I would be interested to hear more about Gixxer's day game, and his gameplan for outside the clubs.

i'm new to the game and i live in toronto and am not moving anytime soon, so reading this shit really psyches me out

Quote: (02-14-2012 10:14 AM)dickbutt Wrote:  

i'm new to the game and i live in toronto and am not moving anytime soon, so reading this shit really psyches me out

How old are you? All it means is that if you recognise the traits that Toronto lizards have, you won't think it's a lack of game on your half, you'll know it's something wrong with them and you'll be able to process and eliminate quickly.

When I first moved here, I thought there was something wrong with me. But through experience and tapping out reptiles in other parts of Canada, I realized that it wasn't me but the Toronto lizards who were flawed.

That's what you need to learn from reading this.

Quote: (02-14-2012 10:22 AM)Moma Wrote:  

Quote: (02-14-2012 10:14 AM)dickbutt Wrote:  

i'm new to the game and i live in toronto and am not moving anytime soon, so reading this shit really psyches me out

How old are you? All it means is that if you recognise the traits that Toronto lizards have, you won't think it's a lack of game on your half, you'll know it's something wrong with them and you'll be able to process and eliminate quickly.

When I first moved here, I thought there was something wrong with me. But through experience and tapping out reptiles in other parts of Canada, I realized that it wasn't me but the Toronto lizards who were flawed.

That's what you need to learn from reading this.

i'm 26

what is a lizard

Quote: (02-14-2012 10:38 AM)dickbutt Wrote:  

i'm 26

what is a lizard

Lizard = reptile = iguana = salamander = female = dime = woman

Toronto is a weird place.

Toronto has been the only city in the world that i have ever been and i didnt get laid. I dont know if it was the fact of me rolling with 10, 15 other dudes wherever we were going and my short stay ( i only stayed there for 4 days). But still, i didnt even get a kiss from a single girl, thats just weird.

However, i still found women there to be very friendly, i just think my logistics didnt help. Also what i found strange was that the girls that were feeling me in Toronto were white girls, that doesnt happen anywhere i go, black chicks always tend to like me and white girls never do (although i have fucked lots of white chicks), the opposite happened in Toronto, weird.


But i still want to visit Toronto to complete my homework.

For those who aren't seeing hot babes in Toronto or not having any luck, hit up these venues next time you're in town:

Nywood
Hoxton
1812
Brassaii (one of my favorites)
Branthouse
Cheval (sunday)
Century Room (sunday)
Muzik
Spice Route
Maro (more mature, upscale)
Courthouse
The Drake (every 1st friday of every month. good party)
Ultra Supper Club
Any of the hotel rooftops (Hazelton/Thompson/Park Hyatt)

If you're in the suburbs and want local mississauga/brampton/oakville girls, go to My Apartment on fridays in Mississauga. Lots of girls. Don't be fooled by the lineup of cocks outside, this club always let in all the bitches in first in the night then slowly let the dudes in. But the amount of girls inside is pretty good.

Hit up those venues on the weekend and tell me Toronto is lacking.

Quote: (02-14-2012 10:40 AM)Moma Wrote:  

Quote: (02-14-2012 10:38 AM)dickbutt Wrote:  

i'm 26

what is a lizard

Lizard = reptile = iguana = salamander = female = dime = woman

alrighty then lol

i need to go to brassai and thompson hotel more. spice route has been my default joint. in my humble estimation it's a great place to 'learn' pick up, but not necessarily a good place to pick up. the music is low, it's spacious, and there are 2- and 3-sets. they are older though, and the place has a reputation for being harsh.

also i need to revise the bit about being "new" to the game. it's something more like this: i've been doing cold approach since february 2011 - so, for a year - just on a very on and off basis, and when on, i don't approach enough, and when i do approach and manage to say the right things and get the few odd numbers, i never do anything with them because until quite recently i've had logistical problems (no car, no place of my own, and no furniture for a long time after i finally got my own place, lol), all plus some other shit i don't feel like going into at the moment

Why did misterstir get banned? Can we have a thread dedicated to banned members and the reasons? I start to bond with these cats and before you know it, vamoose they are gone.