Tinder in London is a complete waste of time for me.

I do way better in real life. very little quality and the quality ones are getting a lot of matches so they can handpick male models basically. if your a male model or look like one, you will probably clean up due to the cream rising.


I cant say what its like in other citys, but its a ego boast and a lot of the nice ones are wacky, no need for a female 8 or 9 to be on Tinder. When you ask a genuine 7.5+ about tinder she will say does need it (they get approached in real life).

Tinder has turned into attention/ego stroking and for women to fuck male models or scratch a novelty itch.

For example a girl may have a fantasy of banging a super swole gym guy but has always been scared to in real life, on here she can have courage and he will live local.

The girl thats a 6 can offer sex to a guy thats a 9, and the female 6 will be happy sucking a guy she would usually have no chance with. the 9 may even take her on some dates.

For the vast majority of guys its a waste of time in London im pretty sure of it.

The glory days of online dating phase has gone, its back to day/night game. (moreso night game), when a girl chooses with her eyes i go in.

also tinder has no race filter so it shows me a lot of girls im not even interested in and vice versa. Tinder favours the white majority

Tinder has made real life game easier, if anything. It provides a crutch for a lot of guys to rely on to get laid. I see far fewer guys approaching, and approaching well, in night life venues every year as more and more of them become reliant on online game. This is definitely improving the opportunities for someone with good approach game in real life. There are huge numbers of girls out there who either don't use Tinder, or who are far more impressed by being approached in person than online.

The looks bar for men has been raised in general though, but not by Tinder. Its been raised by:

a) General improvements in sports science, and an increased level of physical fitness amongst the young male population in the last 20 years in most Western countries and
b) The internet providing a ready style guide for any guy who wants it, meaning its much easier to be fashionable and dress well now than it was 20 years ago.

A 25 year old male on average now dresses better, is fitter, eats healthier and drinks less alcohol than a similar 25 year male did ten, fifteen, twenty or longer years ago. This is the key reason the looks bar is higher, not Tinder.

The solution to this is not to give up and go on angry, bitter rants about how society is destroying itself ala Skank_Hunt. Instead just accept the game has moved on, engage in some self improvement, and get out there and stuck in.

I would say social media acts on our minds like pornography did.

Porn makes you having unrealistic expectation of sex, may make one feel "reduced" that their hammer is just a hammer and not a jackhammer and will expect all women to do A2M and so on.

Instagram and Facebook gives unrealistic expectations on life/dating.
You go on Instagram/Facebook and see those hot instahoes in their bikinis and showing their skin. Then IRL they look like every other plain jane. When you get to driver your hammer through them, they will look just like every other chick. Without the instagram filter they are just regular attention whores attention whoring.
In the secret life of social media everyone can have a fake lifestyle. IRL and without that filter, its easy to see the instagram lifestyle is sad excuse for their pathetic lives. (yes, I do know that a minority of users do have the lifestyle)

This being said Tinder alone could have probably made real life dating a easier for the regular guy as he would have less competition. Several guys I know rely only on tinder (naturally they only get laid when the stars are lined).

Tinder+Social Media makes it rather complicated for men as women are known to always want more. Having a steady life and a convertible is not enough, because the other guy has a classic convertible. Having a classic convertible is not enough, because the other guy has a classic ferrari. having a classic ferrari is not enough because the other guy has a modern ferrari (ad aeternum).

Quote: (06-29-2017 07:43 AM)zatara Wrote:  

The looks bar for men has been raised in general though, but not by Tinder. Its been raised by:

a) General improvements in sports science, and an increased level of physical fitness amongst the young male population in the last 20 years in most Western countries and
b) The internet providing a ready style guide for any guy who wants it, meaning its much easier to be fashionable and dress well now than it was 20 years ago.

The above two have certainly contributed, but a few others in this thread have already pointed out the biggest reason: women simply don't need men for the same reasons they used to, i.e., financial support and survival. In many parts of the world, and especially the west, women have either attained, are rapidly attaining, or are beginning to surpass men in terms of financial independence and educational achievement. So they no longer evaluate a man's "fitness" (if you will) as a prospect in the same way they used to. They instead evaluate men similar to the way men have always evaluated women, i.e., first on the basis of looks, and then everything else.

Some other trends that have contributed:

American culture has been exported in the last 20 years to just about every corner of the globe, so the American aesthetic for males has come to influence dating markets all over.

For instance, I remember growing up in my home country and not seeing nearly as many buff dudes walkin around as I do these days when I visit. Gyms now are way more common than even a decade or so ago, and the buff look is no longer just for freaks and bodybuilders, many regular joe schmoe's are aspiring towards that look.

Also, meat consumption has gone up in many parts of the world as the middle class continues to expand in poorer countries, so there are simply more fit, taller guys around now in those parts than there were previously.

Quote: (06-29-2017 07:43 AM)zatara Wrote:  

Tinder has made real life game easier, if anything. It provides a crutch for a lot of guys to rely on to get laid. I see far fewer guys approaching, and approaching well, in night life venues every year as more and more of them become reliant on online game. This is definitely improving the opportunities for someone with good approach game in real life. There are huge numbers of girls out there who either don't use Tinder, or who are far more impressed by being approached in person than online.

The looks bar for men has been raised in general though, but not by Tinder. Its been raised by:

a) General improvements in sports science, and an increased level of physical fitness amongst the young male population in the last 20 years in most Western countries and
b) The internet providing a ready style guide for any guy who wants it, meaning its much easier to be fashionable and dress well now than it was 20 years ago.

A 25 year old male on average now dresses better, is fitter, eats healthier and drinks less alcohol than a similar 25 year male did ten, fifteen, twenty or longer years ago. This is the key reason the looks bar is higher, not Tinder.

The solution to this is not to give up and go on angry, bitter rants about how society is destroying itself ala Skank_Hunt. Instead just accept the game has moved on, engage in some self improvement, and get out there and stuck in.

Who says I have given up? On the Anglosphere, perhaps; it doesn't offer a good enough ROI for me, nor does it for countless other men who choose to relocate. That's not giving up; it's smart. If you get a 10x better ROI on your efforts to improve yourself in another place/places, then it makes sense to seek to travel to those places. If I can't stand entitled social media addicted 49ers, fatties, and average girls, and there are places which provide the opposite, it makes sense to go there. Past a certain point, if you go out too many times, you can definitely become jaded, and even if you get a "notch" going out becomes a form of self-flagellation. If you find my writing a bit too much, check out some of Roosh's most popular articles. I am definitely pissed off about a lot of things from social media addiction to general political and social changes that have caused such rapid decline in quantity and quality of women in the US. I understand the perspective of "adapt", but again, past a certain point even the best and most innovative adaptations still produce poor ROI. You may go out in the Anglosphere and have a blast - more power to you. I personally don't find it enjoyable.

Your reasons for male improvement are not wrong: men are more into fitness and style than they used to be today than a few decades ago. You can dispute the reasons as to why that is, but one of them is the "arms race", where in real life (not online) men improve themselves even further to compete with the other men chasing even more scarce pleasant, attractive girls. Inflated attitudes due to social media aside, obesity itself essentially eliminates the large part of the eligible pool of young women, before you even begin to do anything to improve yourself as a man.

As for the "alternative" perspective of social media and dating apps making things "easier", that is simply not true. Attention whoring and inflated egos etc. and their effects are things that no longer need to be explained on here. I understand what you are trying to say but it just does not mesh with reality at this time. Men are overly reliant on online dating, but thirst in general has increased exponentially. Whether in real life or online, women will be approached. Add to this the fact that once women bang male model looking guys, and get repeatedly pumped and dumped by them (the top <1% of the guys on these apps), women will be more used, more jaded, and more expectant of similar quality at a club or bar. By the time the average guy approaches her, she has already been fucked by a number of male "9s" from Tinder, so what are you going to do? "Adapt" when she sees you are nowhere near a "9"? How do you adapt to "No" girls? In most cases, you just can't. No amount of game will change an unwaveringly unreceptive girl's demeanor.

So you "self-improve": you go to the gym and spend huge amounts of time, money and effort to get absolutely shredded, but your genetics have a limit; still only a small fraction of men can become "9". Your time, money and effort would have been better spent working hard, getting your shit in order, and living in places outside the Anglosphere where increasingly your average 6 demands a male 9 as a BF because she managed to get fucked by a few of them on Tinder. Doing this instead of entertaining the low quality women in the Anglosphere is an "adaptation" that can actually provide good ROI. If you want to stay put then no one else can convince you otherwise, but to say that it's become "easier" to approach and get with more and better quality girls as a result of Tinder/social media etc. is laughable and worse, it can mislead members who happen to read your post and actually believe it.

Quote: (06-29-2017 09:36 AM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

Quote: (06-29-2017 07:43 AM)zatara Wrote:  

Tinder has made real life game easier, if anything. It provides a crutch for a lot of guys to rely on to get laid. I see far fewer guys approaching, and approaching well, in night life venues every year as more and more of them become reliant on online game. This is definitely improving the opportunities for someone with good approach game in real life. There are huge numbers of girls out there who either don't use Tinder, or who are far more impressed by being approached in person than online.

The looks bar for men has been raised in general though, but not by Tinder. Its been raised by:

a) General improvements in sports science, and an increased level of physical fitness amongst the young male population in the last 20 years in most Western countries and
b) The internet providing a ready style guide for any guy who wants it, meaning its much easier to be fashionable and dress well now than it was 20 years ago.

A 25 year old male on average now dresses better, is fitter, eats healthier and drinks less alcohol than a similar 25 year male did ten, fifteen, twenty or longer years ago. This is the key reason the looks bar is higher, not Tinder.

The solution to this is not to give up and go on angry, bitter rants about how society is destroying itself ala Skank_Hunt. Instead just accept the game has moved on, engage in some self improvement, and get out there and stuck in.

Who says I have given up? On the Anglosphere, perhaps; it doesn't offer a good enough ROI for me, nor does it for countless other men who choose to relocate. That's not giving up; it's smart. If you get a 10x better ROI on your efforts to improve yourself in another place/places, then it makes sense to seek to travel to those places. If I can't stand entitled social media addicted 49ers, fatties, and average girls, and there are places which provide the opposite, it makes sense to go there. Past a certain point, if you go out too many times, you can definitely become jaded, and even if you get a "notch" going out becomes a form of self-flagellation. If you find my writing a bit too much, check out some of Roosh's most popular articles. I am definitely pissed off about a lot of things from social media addiction to general political and social changes that have caused such rapid decline in quantity and quality of women in the US. I understand the perspective of "adapt", but again, past a certain point even the best and most innovative adaptations still produce poor ROI. You may go out in the Anglosphere and have a blast - more power to you. I personally don't find it enjoyable.

Your reasons for male improvement are not wrong: men are more into fitness and style than they used to be today than a few decades ago. You can dispute the reasons as to why that is, but one of them is the "arms race", where in real life (not online) men improve themselves even further to compete with the other men chasing even more scarce pleasant, attractive girls. Inflated attitudes due to social media aside, obesity itself essentially eliminates the large part of the eligible pool of young women, before you even begin to do anything to improve yourself as a man.

As for the "alternative" perspective of social media and dating apps making things "easier", that is simply not true. Attention whoring and inflated egos etc. and their effects are things that no longer need to be explained on here. I understand what you are trying to say but it just does not mesh with reality at this time. Men are overly reliant on online dating, but thirst in general has increased exponentially. Whether in real life or online, women will be approached. Add to this the fact that once women bang male model looking guys, and get repeatedly pumped and dumped by them (the top <1% of the guys on these apps), women will be more used, more jaded, and more expectant of similar quality at a club or bar. By the time the average guy approaches her, she has already been fucked by a number of male "9s" from Tinder, so what are you going to do? "Adapt" when she sees you are nowhere near a "9"? How do you adapt to "No" girls? In most cases, you just can't. No amount of game will change an unwaveringly unreceptive girl's demeanor.

So you "self-improve": you go to the gym and spend huge amounts of time, money and effort to get absolutely shredded, but your genetics have a limit; still only a small fraction of men can become "9". Your time, money and effort would have been better spent working hard, getting your shit in order, and living in places outside the Anglosphere where increasingly your average 6 demands a male 9 as a BF because she managed to get fucked by a few of them on Tinder. Doing this instead of entertaining the low quality women in the Anglosphere is an "adaptation" that can actually provide good ROI. If you want to stay put then no one else can convince you otherwise, but to say that it's become "easier" to approach and get with more and better quality girls as a result of Tinder/social media etc. is laughable and worse, it can mislead members who happen to read your post and actually believe it.

Post of the day, i agree with everything you said.

A girl who is a 6 can regularly fucks guy 9's on tinder, as she puts it on a plate.

her friend is an 8 but doesnt uses tinder, she thinks if my friend who is a 6 can get this male 9 to fuck em, i can get that level or better.

It raises the bar somewhat, i know with girls its a lot more complicated and less logical then it with guys, but you get my point.

He explained it very well though!!

Quote: (06-29-2017 06:38 AM)giama Wrote:  

also tinder has no race filter so it shows me a lot of girls im not even interested in and vice versa. Tinder favours the white majority

Yeah man, I hated that about Tinder and Bumble too. Where I'm forced to swipe through a sea of mayonnaise, filled with women who aren't interested in me, nor I in them just to get to some viable candidates. Must be nice to not have to worry about this, lol.

Quote: (06-29-2017 12:15 PM)DimeBait Wrote:  

filled with women who aren't interested in me, nor I in them just to get to some viable candidates. Must be nice to not have to worry about this, lol.

Lol... now let's wait for the obligatory "but race doesn't matter bruh, just lift and dress well and everyone will be crazy about you" a la captain shane

Do you guys actually know guys that are a 9 or is this another "theory"?

I know a guy who was a former model, he married a model. He didn't even engage an average looking girl in public and he certainly didn't need online dating.

I also work with another model, granted he is very young. He sport fucks girls that are slightly above average, I see average girls gawking at him and he looks past them. I have heard him mention Tinder once but he isn't using that to get girls. He gets naked pics sent to him from girls all over the world on IG. He doesn't even reply to them.

@Rude Bwoy, noted about the guy 9s,

I can only comment on a place like London, i have never seen a girl gawk at anybody, ever in London, have you seen the way people behave on the london tube..

In london i have possibly never seen a black or mixed girl gawk at anybody, no matter how fine the guy is they act normal face, or throw a smile. They dont like to give the satisfaction.
I have seen white girls gawk at guys, they are more open with admiration.

London girls online can hypergamy there pussy for looks or money, their choice.

Maybe in other cities things are more even, but i know on Tinder is poor ROI in London, i may have missed your point. Maybe your saying that we are over rating the guys available on there. i have never seen the guys section on tinder so you may have a point

London day game is decent, were enjoying summer here so there is some options opening up.

^ I have. I have a mixed race friend with straight hair that black and mixed girls go absolutely crazy over. I've seen whole tables literally staring at him. They send their friends over to ask for introductions, move to get near him, etc., and just go on ridiculously forward. Doesn't matter where we go it's the same.

Quote: (06-29-2017 04:59 PM)Kieran Wrote:  

^ I have. I have a mixed race friend with straight hair that black and mixed girls go absolutely crazy over. I've seen whole tables literally staring at him. They send their friends over to ask for introductions, move to get near him, etc., and just go on ridiculously forward. Doesn't matter where we go it's the same.

he must be a male 10, i have never seen a black or mixed women from london act like that over a guy in any setting. except for someone like Chris Brown or trey songz, which is looks/status/fame/talent

I believe you though, he must be genetically blessed.

@rudebwoy @kieran i stand corrected, i learned something and will adjust my statement according.

female 6s can smash guy 7.5s on tinder with regular ease.
females 7s can demand a 8.5 guy

I have seen very good looking guys not get gawked at, so im not sure what the level kicks in when girls start gawking at guys as a daily occurance. Im new to the concept i dont know any guys near that level.

also take into account physicality, guys in London are in better shape then the women.

@giama - the male model I mentioned before, was a guy I use to train with in London. He made the cover of Men's Health, so you know he aint no slouch.

Guys in most of the Anglo countries are in better shape than the women. So saying this about guys in London does not mean much, I didn't find a lot of guys to be in decent shape to begin with when I lived in London. The heavy drinking culture doesn't do the body good.

London is still world class city with tons of tourists and girls moving there on a daily basis.
I don't see the need to be on Tinder in a place like that, so I can understand why it wouldn't be good.
The city is also very forgiving, stuff I pulled there in terms of dating - would not fly in Toronto. For example, I was cold calling a business and a Czech receptionist answered the phone. I guessed she was Czech and asked her out for coffee. She agreed and we met in Covent Garden for a coffee shortly after.

A lot of my friends and guys I use to work with have a decent social life in London. They have girls comparable to them that they are dating.
In a place like Toronto, they would struggle.

What girls can smash and demand doesn't mean anything.

Black girls are the same all around, I will leave it at that.

The bar is definitely raising not sure if because of Tinder and it seems at least for the near term (next 5 years) it will continue to raise.

I had a conversation with the most charismatic, socially savvy guy I have ever known last night.

He himself is too busy to ever be on a forum hanging around. He's red pill from an immigrant family with a massive player dad.

He said a few decades ago you could just be a hard working guy and get a good chick, now you have to be interesting on top of it and stylish.

We both agreed that girls feel no need to make a good impression on new men and the burden is completely on the man.

This guy is super tall, ripped, handsome, extremely fashionable, with a successful $$$ panty-wetter business, not to mention a great musician that plays live gigs for fun on the side.

He feels the pressure to stay a cut above to keep girls in check.

He of course also brought up himself foreign chicks are the way to go for the long haul.

If a guy like that has that mindset you know things are competitive on the field.

Travesty, I find the same with the "model" type guys I know and top, charismatic naturals. I don't hang around with them anywhere near as often as I used to due to poor nightlife compared to 10 years ago, but when we catch up and hang around I notice no special attention given to them which was the norm a decade ago, and complaints from them themselves that it is getting harder and the girls seem to be "letting themselves go" so there are fewer true quality girls around. At the same time men are going to the gym, some taking steroids, and even these confident, muscular guys express anxiety and stress. Not sure if just because of their lifestyle and sometimes the shit they're taking, but a big part of it is that they can get hit or miss success with a 6 who thinks she's won the genetic lottery and throws herself at him, but anything significantly above still requires effort on his part. It's always tempting to think black and white that the grass is always greener on the other side, but the impact of top tier looks on quality girls has diminished massively. Girls are so inundated with options of similar or better standard that they have become desensitized to it in a certain way.

Not to turn this into the usual Looks vs Game debate, but part of it seems to be going that way, so I'll address it briefly. The girls who "ogle" the model looking men with big muscles and throw themselves at them tend to be average girls around the 6 level. Although looks are not the primary factor in a woman's decision to choose a man to have sex with, it is the first thing she sees, and based upon the man's looks, she infers more things about him. My theory is that girls have a "probability" value in their head for each quality valued in a man, because as we know men can give off fake signals; over millions of years the "probability" values, which are communicated not necessarily as direct numbers in her mind, rather via emotions that are very difficult for her to put into words let alone numbers, but when a male "9" is in front of a female "6", the difference is so big that she firstly takes the "genetic lottery" card. She also automatically assigns a probability value for other valued masculine traits such as dominance, leadership, emotional resilience, ability to protect loved ones especially her offspring etc., based entirely upon the man's very strong appearance. The probability value is not necessarily 100%, but because of the way the man looks, the value is high enough for her hindbrain to say "fuck it, throw yourself at him, it's most likely worth it". Therefore the man's looks have done the majority of the work for him. That's how a lot of the best looking guys accumulate notches: by average to slightly cute girls who are way below him in terms of looks at least. Note that a specific model type guy could be an absolute gamma at heart, but she gives him the benefit of the doubt and he doesn't have enough time to show his true colors for her to think, or better yet feel, otherwise. Thus men who are average looking at the situation will conclude "Women are attracted almost entirely to looks just as men are attracted to women." That's not true but it sure does give the deceptive appearance of being that way in many cases.

When you get to settings where the women have more time and opportunities to find out more elaborate details about the men within their social circle, you get increasingly less focus on the looks as a man would judge a woman based on looks. The women in the social circle would gravitate towards the man who conveys the highest status, is confident, and all the other traits they are attracted to. The more time they observe the men, the more reliable their conclusions and the higher the probability of each trait being at the level they feel it's at. The "shortcut" to this is obviously the opinions of other women; this is so strong because the more women there are reaching the same conclusion, the higher the probability of that conclusion being true. They look for "triangulation" of sorts even if it means competing with each other for the same man. Again what happens with looks is that a man can fit a certain "stereotype" which is known by the experience of girls to generally have those attractive masculine traits, so his "image" is also the cause of increased attraction off the bat based on past experience, not necessarily entirely based on his "looks" in the way a man would evaluate a woman's looks, but from an external observer it sure looks that way. A true beta male at heart can therefore go to the gym, get shredded with hard work, get a tan, get some piercings and tattoos, get some plastic surgery to his face if his face isn't chiseled, then go out to a nightclub and have tons of assumptions made about him by average to slightly cute girls. He may also bang the occasional fattie who has the confidence to throw herself at him. The top tier girls are still daunting for him.

skank hunt is speaking real knowledge today. VERY DEEP, layers of science


There are other website which make an effect also, there are sugar daddy websites out there that a lot of female 7s,8s and 9s are on.

Girls can then raise the level of the looks they will deal with.

she may have 2 wealthy finance guys (a male 5 and a 5) , and 2 good looking normal job guys on her case. (a 8,7)

she will then deal with the 2 rich 5s, and the good looking normal job 8.

The normal job 7, will be left holding his own dick.

So the combination of Tinder, sugar daddy websites, will definitely result in raising the level you need to be looks wise to have regular sex with chics IMO

there is a lot of potential connections and girls can filter to the highest standard, be it looks or finances.

7s, 8s,9s attract wealthy guys i think this has a trickle down effect. Very easy for wealthy guys to make contact with top tier women due to the internet, 15 years ago was not possible. That has to have an effect

a genuine female 7 or 8 can sleep with a male 9 EASY, super easy, like calling a pizza. so i dont know why they would make a huge fuss over a male 9 or 10. but a female 5, 6 i can see making a big fuss

These females 8s and 9 are fishing for big money in London. Cant even hate them for it. London is expensive city and they want a easy life.

I just get the impression its a lot easier then 10 years ago to find wealthy guy due to the emergence of urban women visiting the west end, and the internet. That makes it harder for the regular guy.

I remember 10 years ago the top tier Mixed/black girls were not doing this west end/fine dining/champagne/lobster thing. Now due to instagram its became the culture. The kardashian culture has a part to play in that as well.

Quote: (06-29-2017 06:32 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

@giama - the male model I mentioned before, was a guy I use to train with in London. He made the cover of Men's Health, so you know he aint no slouch.

Guys in most of the Anglo countries are in better shape than the women. So saying this about guys in London does not mean much, I didn't find a lot of guys to be in decent shape to begin with when I lived in London. The heavy drinking culture doesn't do the body good.

London is still world class city with tons of tourists and girls moving there on a daily basis.
I don't see the need to be on Tinder in a place like that, so I can understand why it wouldn't be good.
The city is also very forgiving, stuff I pulled there in terms of dating - would not fly in Toronto. For example, I was cold calling a business and a Czech receptionist answered the phone. I guessed she was Czech and asked her out for coffee. She agreed and we met in Covent Garden for a coffee shortly after.

A lot of my friends and guys I use to work with have a decent social life in London. They have girls comparable to them that they are dating.
In a place like Toronto, they would struggle.

What girls can smash and demand doesn't mean anything.

Black girls are the same all around, I will leave it at that.

Toronto must be abject hell for straight men. 10/10 not visiting.

Quote: (06-29-2017 08:28 PM)giama Wrote:  

a genuine female 7 or 8 can sleep with a male 9 EASY, super easy, like calling a pizza. so i dont know why they would make a huge fuss over a male 9 or 10. but a female 5, 6 i can see making a big fuss

These females 8s and 9 are fishing for big money in London. Cant even hate them for it. London is expensive city and they want a easy life.

I just get the impression its a lot easier then 10 years ago to find wealthy guy due to the emergence of urban women visiting the west end, and the internet. That makes it harder for the regular guy.

I remember 10 years ago the top tier Mixed/black girls were not doing this west end/fine dining/champagne/lobster thing. Now due to instagram its became the culture. The kardashian culture has a part to play in that as well.

Giama if you think these girls are only fucking / have fucked male 9's and 10's, or money men, then you're not living in the real world. It's competitive, we get that, but it's not the way you are making it out to be.

Quote: (06-29-2017 09:36 AM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

Quote: (06-29-2017 07:43 AM)zatara Wrote:  

Tinder has made real life game easier, if anything. It provides a crutch for a lot of guys to rely on to get laid. I see far fewer guys approaching, and approaching well, in night life venues every year as more and more of them become reliant on online game. This is definitely improving the opportunities for someone with good approach game in real life. There are huge numbers of girls out there who either don't use Tinder, or who are far more impressed by being approached in person than online.

The looks bar for men has been raised in general though, but not by Tinder. Its been raised by:

a) General improvements in sports science, and an increased level of physical fitness amongst the young male population in the last 20 years in most Western countries and
b) The internet providing a ready style guide for any guy who wants it, meaning its much easier to be fashionable and dress well now than it was 20 years ago.

A 25 year old male on average now dresses better, is fitter, eats healthier and drinks less alcohol than a similar 25 year male did ten, fifteen, twenty or longer years ago. This is the key reason the looks bar is higher, not Tinder.

The solution to this is not to give up and go on angry, bitter rants about how society is destroying itself ala Skank_Hunt. Instead just accept the game has moved on, engage in some self improvement, and get out there and stuck in.

Who says I have given up? On the Anglosphere, perhaps; it doesn't offer a good enough ROI for me, nor does it for countless other men who choose to relocate. That's not giving up; it's smart. If you get a 10x better ROI on your efforts to improve yourself in another place/places, then it makes sense to seek to travel to those places. If I can't stand entitled social media addicted 49ers, fatties, and average girls, and there are places which provide the opposite, it makes sense to go there. Past a certain point, if you go out too many times, you can definitely become jaded, and even if you get a "notch" going out becomes a form of self-flagellation. If you find my writing a bit too much, check out some of Roosh's most popular articles. I am definitely pissed off about a lot of things from social media addiction to general political and social changes that have caused such rapid decline in quantity and quality of women in the US. I understand the perspective of "adapt", but again, past a certain point even the best and most innovative adaptations still produce poor ROI. You may go out in the Anglosphere and have a blast - more power to you. I personally don't find it enjoyable.

Your reasons for male improvement are not wrong: men are more into fitness and style than they used to be today than a few decades ago. You can dispute the reasons as to why that is, but one of them is the "arms race", where in real life (not online) men improve themselves even further to compete with the other men chasing even more scarce pleasant, attractive girls. Inflated attitudes due to social media aside, obesity itself essentially eliminates the large part of the eligible pool of young women, before you even begin to do anything to improve yourself as a man.

As for the "alternative" perspective of social media and dating apps making things "easier", that is simply not true. Attention whoring and inflated egos etc. and their effects are things that no longer need to be explained on here. I understand what you are trying to say but it just does not mesh with reality at this time. Men are overly reliant on online dating, but thirst in general has increased exponentially. Whether in real life or online, women will be approached. Add to this the fact that once women bang male model looking guys, and get repeatedly pumped and dumped by them (the top <1% of the guys on these apps), women will be more used, more jaded, and more expectant of similar quality at a club or bar. By the time the average guy approaches her, she has already been fucked by a number of male "9s" from Tinder, so what are you going to do? "Adapt" when she sees you are nowhere near a "9"? How do you adapt to "No" girls? In most cases, you just can't. No amount of game will change an unwaveringly unreceptive girl's demeanor.

So you "self-improve": you go to the gym and spend huge amounts of time, money and effort to get absolutely shredded, but your genetics have a limit; still only a small fraction of men can become "9". Your time, money and effort would have been better spent working hard, getting your shit in order, and living in places outside the Anglosphere where increasingly your average 6 demands a male 9 as a BF because she managed to get fucked by a few of them on Tinder. Doing this instead of entertaining the low quality women in the Anglosphere is an "adaptation" that can actually provide good ROI. If you want to stay put then no one else can convince you otherwise, but to say that it's become "easier" to approach and get with more and better quality girls as a result of Tinder/social media etc. is laughable and worse, it can mislead members who happen to read your post and actually believe it.

Completely agree Skank Hunt.

ROI is everything. Why sink all my capital into a terrible investment when I can see a wonderful investment with great short term and long term investments right the fuck over there! Its right there! Why sink my face in shit when everything I want is right over there!

I will say though, that this will spread and already has spread. I bang some chicks in China and check out their tantan/tinder and the dudes are looking good. Money, tall, good looking, six pack abs, style, lifestyle stuff such as surfing or rally car, vacations with 5-star hotels. 6s-7s can get those guys all day at least in big cities in China.

But still agree, the grass is WAY greener elsewhere. Take off your shoes, come over and enjoy it.

My flat mate is on a popular london dating website , and she gets guys offering to send ubers over to pick her up for a date ! WTF - the thirst is real ...

Seriously high quality dudes are infinitely rarer than very pretty girls, and will be in demand wherever they go with the best women that place has to offer. The work is hard and unforgiving, and it requires sustained application in a lot of directions over many years. However, if you stick to your task, then a sea of spectacular pussy will be yours to bathe in for a long and sunny season. Questions about Tinder raising the bar or whatever become completely irrelevant in the face of this truth: as a man you set the bar - it does not get set by Tinder, and all girls are just as starved of real quality as they ever were. The idea that six packs and large biceps can go any distance at all to competing with a man with a real aura is laughable.