Quote: (05-09-2016 12:21 PM)mikeymike Wrote:
Quote: (05-09-2016 11:26 AM)ScrapperTL Wrote:
Martin Berkhan is legend, the guy has presented mountains worth of data @ http://www.LeanGains.com promoting Intermittent Fasting & Fasted Training.
Likewise Victor Pride (bold and determined), Chris Deoudes (good looking loser), Mike Cernovich (danger and play) and our very own Roosh - have all been boasting about the endless benefits of Cold Showers for years.
You have not presented anything solid enough, aside from your own opinion, that would leave me to believe Fasted Training & Cold Showers are not extremely beneficial for improving body composition.
1 study revolving around 8 participants, that barely fills 1 paragraph worth of data and no caliper/body fat % testing of any sort?
If you want to pick and choose legends I can talk about real leading experts who have gone on to say that there is no upside to training fasted. Guys who have no skin in the game vs a guy who makes all his money on recommending fasting. Alan Aragon. Schoenfeld. Layne Norton. John Meadows, Chrisitian Thibodeau off the top of my head. IF has useful applications, fasted training does not.
I did say there was a benefit to cold immersion just not weight loss. It is a great recovery tool. For weight loss tho, pointless. The best studies done on brown fat when using cold immersion therapy had people lower their core temp for hours, 3 hours min per day in the case of one and the result was an extra 400ish cals per day. thats not a pound a week. How much do you think a cold shower for 5 minutes per day is going to do? Another had its participants in a cold respiration chamber all day and it burned roughly the same amount of cals. That isn't my opinion that is the studies...This is a case of the science showing something promising but having found no real practical application for it yet. Regarding pointing to non experts as your proof for cold immersion being an asset, I have no idea who 2 of them are don't visit their websites blogs but mikecf is a gym rat on trt, he's got reasons for being in shape, hard work not cold showers, wanna ask him how much of a difference cold water makes to his overall physique? ask him if he feels its the difference between somebody getting cut up or not, ask how much real weight he feels hes lost because of it. I dont care about anything else he feels on it, I said there were potential other benefits ask him specifically about how much hes lost because of his cold showers. I'll wait here for the answer. And no disrespect to Roosh, nothing but love but he's not in elite shape. Ive lived this life, Ive stepped on stage I train and prep with pros who are on stage today if theres an edge we'd be using it. I have zero reason to trash this beyond it simply doesn't work for weight loss. In the end its not hurting you so if somebody wants to try it, go ahead.
If you want to believe in fasted training so badly that this study doesn't sway you at all and leading experts don't phase you at all then what else can I say? You understand that is an abstract right? it was not a 1 paragraph study lol these studies aren't made so we can end discussions on message boards I wish I could hand you a 500 person study but we work with what we've got but the words are there for you to read, the experts tend to agree but if its working for you do your thing.
Mikeymike, I am a very reasonable logic-minded person and I have to admit you have put together a great case & some very strong arguments above against Fasted Training + Cold Immersion.
What is your opinion on Hot Showers being shown to temporarily disrupt sperm and testosterone production?
and Cold Showers being shown to temporarily increase testosterone and sperm production?
You have to understand, unlike most "elite" athletes, I am not on TRT or Anabolics year round.
If a Hot Shower can disrupt Testosterone production for an hour or two a day and a cold one can boost it.
That is a potential 730 to 1460 hours a year, my Testosterone Production is elevated versus disrupted.
Everything adds up over time - this has to account for a significant body composition change overtime for the natural weightlifter.
Although, I can not prove this theory, just assumptions.
Also, if improved recovery is 100% proven with Cold Immersion, than this will indirectly lead to significant beneficial body composition changes as well.
Increased recovery = more frequent training sessions and less injuries.
As for Fasted Training - I train first thing in the AM for 30 to 45 minutes. right after awakening.
Typically I have gone 9 to 10 hours without food by this time.
I have been doing this same routine for 17 months now and I am easily maintaining the lowest body fat % of my life.
I understand however that this as well, is 100% anecdotal.