[Tytalus]

So, I've heard about this being a very effective fat burning drug over the years. It works by burning your fat cells and turning them into heat. Yes, there are side effects from this, if you're diabetic or have blood pressure problems it's not a good idea.

It's status in countries, varies, usually it's a prescription drug, that has medical uses for humans and horses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clenbuterol

I'm curious, has anyone here used this drug? As well, I'm curious if anyone can point to a legitimate online retailer and not a place that looks like a scam.

[Requiem]

Do you make money off your looks? I.e. are you a personal bodybuilder, coach, model or something of the likes?

[Fortis]

Careful. I would be VERY cautious about sharing sources for shit like Clen on this forum. Nothing against anyone here, but that route is almost never good and it could get this forum flagged if it becomes a regular thing.

[Cortés]

Clen is pretty fucking dangerous and it gives you the shakes and some other shitty sides. DNP on the other hand, is really effective and the side effects arent as bad as many say. Stay within a reasonable dose, and you'll be shedding fat without the over heating. I hardly had any sides at 250mg

[MiscBrah]

(05-07-2016 12:42 PM)Cortés Wrote:  

Clen is pretty fucking dangerous and it gives you the shakes and some other shitty sides. DNP on the other hand, is really effective and the side effects arent as bad as many say. Stay within a reasonable dose, and you'll be shedding fat without the over heating. I hardly had any sides at 250mg

You're 16 years old and took DNP? You're also recommending DNP to someone over the internet? That is incredibly irresponsible.

(05-22-2015 11:54 AM)LINUX Wrote:  

I want to tell you something important though: About 4 years ago I owned a gym in Denver. We focused mainly on pre-competition with BB and women's physique. It was a tight knit group where everyone knew everyone in scene. I tell you this because I knew one guy who competed in super heavy who died from DNP. He had three kids who lived with me for a few weeks while they sold his home. I also knew a girl who went into cardiac arrest at 23 years old while on the recumbent bike while on clen. Luckily I had an defibrillator on the wall and brought her back. It's so dangerous to come on to a internet forum and answer question about that stuff. So I avoid it and I recommend you do also for liability reasons. We do not live in age where people want to work hard to lose weight. They want a shortcut and see CLEN and DNP as that alternative. Don't mess with CLEN and DNP and be careful with ECA stacks.

[Mjölnir]

I took clembuterol (bought it from a rural goods store), don't use it, if you can't burn fat and get in shape without it, don't mess with that, also you never now if there is a health problem down the line just waiting to be triggered..

So, find a good sports nutritionist get your diet good, take some caffeine do HIIT, hit the weights heavy and you'll be golden, trust me it works, but not to the point the where you should risk your health to get leaner in 1 month..

May the gainz be with you.

[Tytalus]

Thanks for the info guys. I searched for some subreddits about sourcing and found an answer there, but won't post any links. I can understand that we don't want this forum getting that kind of attention. I've done some research about responsible (as much as taking any BBing drug is "responsible") clenbuterol use.

[Cortés]

[quote] (05-07-2016 12:54 PM)MiscBrah Wrote:  

You're 16 years old and took DNP? You're also recommending DNP to someone over the internet? That is incredibly irresponsible.

[quote='LINUX' pid='1027011' dateline='1432313684']


I want to tell you something important though: About 4 years ago I owned a gym in Denver. We focused mainly on pre-competition with BB and women's physique. It was a tight knit group where everyone knew everyone in scene. I tell you this because I knew one guy who competed in super heavy who died from DNP. He had three kids who lived with me for a few weeks while they sold his home. I also knew a girl who went into cardiac arrest at 23 years old while on the recumbent bike while on clen. Luckily I had an defibrillator on the wall and brought her back. It's so dangerous to come on to a internet forum and answer question about that stuff. So I avoid it and I recommend you do also for liability reasons. We do not live in age where people want to work hard to lose weight. They want a shortcut and see CLEN and DNP as that alternative. Don't mess with CLEN and DNP and be careful with ECA stacks.[/quote]

The consensus is that DNP is really only harmful once you go beyond 750mg, read any article of a fat burner death and its always people who basically frontloaded with DNP. 250mg is hardly enough to see side effects. I dropped 20 pounds in 1 month, only slightly faster than my cut last year, I didnt want to lose much mass because I was recovering from an injury and figured Id at least get shredded if i wasnt putting on mass. If you are responsible with dose, hydration, and watching for potentially harmful sides, I think its fine. Perhaps at my age its not that smart but I have no regrets, sitting at 5'8" 165lbs around 9%bf.

[MiscBrah]

(05-07-2016 07:08 PM)Cortés Wrote:  

The consensus is that DNP is really only harmful once you go beyond 750mg, read any article of a fat burner death and its always people who basically frontloaded with DNP. 250mg is hardly enough to see side effects.

The consensus is that DNP can kill you dead the first time you use it. Take too much and you're dead. There's nothing the doctors can do.

Quote:

If you are responsible with dose, hydration, and watching for potentially harmful sides, I think its fine. Perhaps at my age its not that smart but I have no regrets, sitting at 5'8" 165lbs around 9%bf.

How do you know your DNP is dosed correctly? Most UGLs cant even properly dose their testosterone and you're trusting them to correctly dose DNP? There is no way for you to know for sure the dose you are getting.

Watch out for sides? If severe sides start appearing you are likely already fucked.

Quote:

I think its fine. Perhaps at my age its not that smart but I have no regrets, sitting at 5'8" 165lbs around 9%bf.

*DNP is fucking poison* and there is simply no good reason to take it. Recommending it to someone over the internet is incredibly irresponsible. There is no safe way to take DNP. Don't try to be the most shredded guy in the graveyard.

[ScrapperTL]

Intermittent Fasting + Low Carbing will give you the same results as Clenbuterol + DNP + Shitty Diet

Why go through hell with the side effects of Clenbuterol (Shakiness, racing heart) or DNP (Extreme body warmth, profuse sweating)

Just man the fuck up and eat clean + on a schedule.

It astounds me the great length men will goto to look masculine, without putting in any masculine effort whatsoever.

Here is a basic foundation that will take damn near anyone, barring any genetic defects, to 8% bodyfat

1) Eat all your food from Noon to 8pm
2) Eat only Meat, Seafood, Vegetables, Fruit and Nuts
3) Exercise for 30 minutes every morning on an empty stomach
4) Trade your hot comfortable feminine showers for cold manly showers

Commit yourself fully to those 4 steps, it may seem difficult at first but after a couple months it will feel like second nature.

Come back and thank me later when you are strutting around on the beach sporting a chiseled 6-pack without having to pop a bunch of expensive pills.

[Fortis]

(05-07-2016 05:48 PM)Tytalus Wrote:  

Thanks for the info guys. I searched for some subreddits about sourcing and found an answer there, but won't post any links. I can understand that we don't want this forum getting that kind of attention. I've done some research about responsible (as much as taking any BBing drug is "responsible") clenbuterol use.

Yeah, this forum already gets a ton of negative attention, so let's not burden roosh with more unwanted attention.

[Cortés]

(05-07-2016 08:31 PM)MiscBrah Wrote:  

(05-07-2016 07:08 PM)Cortés Wrote:  

The consensus is that DNP is really only harmful once you go beyond 750mg, read any article of a fat burner death and its always people who basically frontloaded with DNP. 250mg is hardly enough to see side effects.

The consensus is that DNP can kill you dead the first time you use it. Take too much and you're dead. There's nothing the doctors can do.

Quote:

If you are responsible with dose, hydration, and watching for potentially harmful sides, I think its fine. Perhaps at my age its not that smart but I have no regrets, sitting at 5'8" 165lbs around 9%bf.

How do you know your DNP is dosed correctly? Most UGLs cant even properly dose their testosterone and you're trusting them to correctly dose DNP? There is no way for you to know for sure the dose you are getting.

Watch out for sides? If severe sides start appearing you are likely already fucked.

Quote:

I think its fine. Perhaps at my age its not that smart but I have no regrets, sitting at 5'8" 165lbs around 9%bf.

*DNP is fucking poison* and there is simply no good reason to take it. Recommending it to someone over the internet is incredibly irresponsible. There is no safe way to take DNP. Don't try to be the most shredded guy in the graveyard.

Fair enough man, you raise good points and I'll reconsider ever trying them again.

(05-07-2016 09:03 PM)ScrapperTL Wrote:  

Intermittent Fasting + Low Carbing will give you the same results as Clenbuterol + DNP + Shitty Diet

Why go through hell with the side effects of Clenbuterol (Shakiness, racing heart) or DNP (Extreme body warmth, profuse sweating)

Just man the fuck up and eat clean + on a schedule.

It astounds me the great length men will goto to look masculine, without putting in any masculine effort whatsoever.

Here is a basic foundation that will take damn near anyone, barring any genetic defects, to 8% bodyfat

1) Eat all your food from Noon to 8pm
2) Eat only Meat, Seafood, Vegetables, Fruit and Nuts
3) Exercise for 30 minutes every morning on an empty stomach
4) Trade your hot comfortable feminine showers for cold manly showers

Commit yourself fully to those 4 steps, it may seem difficult at first but after a couple months it will feel like second nature.

Come back and thank me later when you are strutting around on the beach sporting a chiseled 6-pack without having to pop a bunch of expensive pills.

While on DNP, I was eating 2000 calories (High protein)-300 calories burned per day and was fasting from 10pm-2pm the next day. I lost 20 pounds in one month, I would say at least 15lbs fat, which is mostly impossible without drugs. However you guys here have a point, perhaps I shouldn't rush to see results. Next year when I cut I'll start earlier and work even harder for it.

But in my opinion, I dont really see your point about it not being manly to use these drugs. I was still dieting and doing solid amounts of cardio, but just because I used a drug to speed up my metabolism more means that I put in no effort? Its not like I ate like shit and sat on the couch popping DNP

[SigmundSauer]

(05-07-2016 08:31 PM)MiscBrah Wrote:  

(05-07-2016 07:08 PM)Cortés Wrote:  

The consensus is that DNP is really only harmful once you go beyond 750mg, read any article of a fat burner death and its always people who basically frontloaded with DNP. 250mg is hardly enough to see side effects.

The consensus is that DNP can kill you dead the first time you use it. Take too much and you're dead. There's nothing the doctors can do.

Quote:

If you are responsible with dose, hydration, and watching for potentially harmful sides, I think its fine. Perhaps at my age its not that smart but I have no regrets, sitting at 5'8" 165lbs around 9%bf.

How do you know your DNP is dosed correctly? Most UGLs cant even properly dose their testosterone and you're trusting them to correctly dose DNP? There is no way for you to know for sure the dose you are getting.

Watch out for sides? If severe sides start appearing you are likely already fucked.

Quote:

I think its fine. Perhaps at my age its not that smart but I have no regrets, sitting at 5'8" 165lbs around 9%bf.

*DNP is fucking poison* and there is simply no good reason to take it. Recommending it to someone over the internet is incredibly irresponsible. There is no safe way to take DNP. Don't try to be the most shredded guy in the graveyard.

Clenbuterol can be prescribed by FDA mandate as a heavy duty bronchodilator and decongestant for severe asthmatics with the magnified effects of ephedrine as a side effect(ie; great increase in metabolism, basically super-ephedrine). DNP on the other hand, is a pesticide and industrial reagant that should NEVER be used by humans. The weight loss from DNP is a part of the acute poisoning process, and ANY chronic repeated usage can severely mess up your eyes, skin, heart, and nervous system permanently, and greatly increase the risk of all forms of cancer, since DNP is a very strong carcinogen.

[zatara]

(05-07-2016 09:16 PM)Cortés Wrote:  

While on DNP, I was eating 2000 calories (High protein)-300 calories burned per day and was fasting from 10pm-2pm the next day. I lost 20 pounds in one month, I would say at least 15lbs fat, which is mostly impossible without drugs. However you guys here have a point, perhaps I shouldn't rush to see results. Next year when I cut I'll start earlier and work even harder for it.

But in my opinion, I dont really see your point about it not being manly to use these drugs. I was still dieting and doing solid amounts of cardio, but just because I used a drug to speed up my metabolism more means that I put in no effort? Its not like I ate like shit and sat on the couch popping DNP

Why did you need to lose 20lbs in a month? Were you not horrified at losing 5lbs of muscle in a month? Did you keep the weight off after you lost it, after you came off the DNP? You would have been much better off losing weight at a more gradual, sustainable pace. Both in terms of your body's metabolic adjustment (and resultant long term composition) and in terms of maintaining muscle mass during the cut.

Unless you're competing (and need to have your bodyfat% down at inhuman levels) in a bodybuilding competition there's no real need for DNP/Clen/Albuterol. Its possible for pretty much all men to hit 10% bodyfat with 6 months of dieting and exercise, unless they're obese to begin with.

There's nothing hugely wrong with using these drugs responsibly, when you have the proper reason to, as certain athletes do. But for the average man just dieting down for a beach body its just ridiculously lazy to take them, and I have my doubts they'll be taken properly. If someone can't be bothered to eat and train right then they probably won't be bothered to learn enough about the magic drugs they're taking to take them properly. And both DNP and Clen can do serious damage if abused.

[mikeymike]

(05-07-2016 09:03 PM)ScrapperTL Wrote:  

Intermittent Fasting + Low Carbing will give you the same results as Clenbuterol + DNP + Shitty Diet

Why go through hell with the side effects of Clenbuterol (Shakiness, racing heart) or DNP (Extreme body warmth, profuse sweating)

Just man the fuck up and eat clean + on a schedule.

It astounds me the great length men will goto to look masculine, without putting in any masculine effort whatsoever.

Here is a basic foundation that will take damn near anyone, barring any genetic defects, to 8% bodyfat

1) Eat all your food from Noon to 8pm
2) Eat only Meat, Seafood, Vegetables, Fruit and Nuts
3) Exercise for 30 minutes every morning on an empty stomach
4) Trade your hot comfortable feminine showers for cold manly showers

Commit yourself fully to those 4 steps, it may seem difficult at first but after a couple months it will feel like second nature.

Come back and thank me later when you are strutting around on the beach sporting a chiseled 6-pack without having to pop a bunch of expensive pills.

Do not fasted train unless you just absolutely like how you feel doing it or are enhanced. It as a method to expedite fat loss has been debunked, in actuality it has been shown to slow fat loss over the course of the next 24 hrs. Not to mention it has been proven time and again that fasted training will lead to less effective workouts for the majority. If you lift light weight it may not crush your workouts but if you lift significant weight you will feel the drop off. If you are the rare individual who doesn't get the drop off in productivity and enjoys fasted training then I would at least recommend supplementing with EAAs prior/during.

Also cold showers is just nonsense. Again if you like how it feels knock yourself out but you aren't a better man for doing it, you're just a man that is colder for a few minutes per day. The studies on brown fat activation from cold immersion requires significant time under those conditions to see any benefit. In the few minutes a day you'd spend in the shower you'd be lucky if you lost even a pound over the course of a year.

I agree completely that any drug use with a sloppy diet is a waste of time, I'd go a step further and say the weight loss drugs mentioned in this thread are both shit. I am not the preachy type so I'm not going to lecture you on how doing it natty is better or only x people should use it but simply in terms of results. Clen is a pain in the ass, feelin like a crack addict and cramping endlessly for a what, 3% bump in metabolism...not worth it. DNP I simply will not even talk about.

[The Beast1]

For those who have never heard of DNP:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4-Dinitrophenol

Looks to have the same mechanism for weight loss as Clen. It causes the body to inefficiently use energy wasting most of it as heat.

[mikeymike]

(05-08-2016 04:54 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  

(05-07-2016 09:03 PM)ScrapperTL Wrote:  

Intermittent Fasting + Low Carbing will give you the same results as Clenbuterol + DNP + Shitty Diet

Why go through hell with the side effects of Clenbuterol (Shakiness, racing heart) or DNP (Extreme body warmth, profuse sweating)

Just man the fuck up and eat clean + on a schedule.

It astounds me the great length men will goto to look masculine, without putting in any masculine effort whatsoever.

Here is a basic foundation that will take damn near anyone, barring any genetic defects, to 8% bodyfat

1) Eat all your food from Noon to 8pm
2) Eat only Meat, Seafood, Vegetables, Fruit and Nuts
3) Exercise for 30 minutes every morning on an empty stomach
4) Trade your hot comfortable feminine showers for cold manly showers

Commit yourself fully to those 4 steps, it may seem difficult at first but after a couple months it will feel like second nature.

Come back and thank me later when you are strutting around on the beach sporting a chiseled 6-pack without having to pop a bunch of expensive pills.

Do not fasted train unless you just absolutely like how you feel doing it or are enhanced. It as a method to expedite fat loss has been debunked, in actuality it has been shown to slow fat loss over the course of the next 24 hrs. Not to mention it has been proven time and again that fasted training will lead to less effective workouts for the majority. If you lift light weight it may not crush your workouts but if you lift significant weight you will feel the drop off. If you are the rare individual who doesn't get the drop off in productivity and enjoys fasted training then I would at least recommend supplementing with EAAs prior/during.

Also cold showers is just nonsense. Again if you like how it feels knock yourself out but you aren't a better man for doing it, you're just a man that is colder for a few minutes per day. The studies on brown fat activation from cold immersion requires significant time under those conditions to see any benefit. In the few minutes a day you'd spend in the shower you'd be lucky if you lost even a pound over the course of a year.

I agree completely that any drug use with a sloppy diet is a waste of time, I'd go a step further and say the weight loss drugs mentioned in this thread are both shit. I am not the preachy type so I'm not going to lecture you on how doing it natty is better or only x people should use it but simply in terms of results. Clen is a pain in the ass, feelin like a crack addict and cramping endlessly for a what, 3% bump in metabolism...not worth it. DNP I simply will not even talk about.

sorry I should clarify, cold water immersion or taking it a step further into cryotherapy does have some very real world benefits, and that is in recovery. Used for those purposes I strongly support the use of ice baths etc but for the purposes of weight loss a cold shower is pointless.

[Harvey Specter]

(05-08-2016 04:54 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  

Do not fasted train unless you just absolutely like how you feel doing it or are enhanced. It as a method to expedite fat loss has been debunked, in actuality it has been shown to slow fat loss over the course of the next 24 hrs. Not to mention it has been proven time and again that fasted training will lead to less effective workouts for the majority. If you lift light weight it may not crush your workouts but if you lift significant weight you will feel the drop off. If you are the rare individual who doesn't get the drop off in productivity and enjoys fasted training then I would at least recommend supplementing with EAAs prior/during.

Also cold showers is just nonsense. Again if you like how it feels knock yourself out but you aren't a better man for doing it, you're just a man that is colder for a few minutes per day. The studies on brown fat activation from cold immersion requires significant time under those conditions to see any benefit. In the few minutes a day you'd spend in the shower you'd be lucky if you lost even a pound over the course of a year.

I agree completely that any drug use with a sloppy diet is a waste of time, I'd go a step further and say the weight loss drugs mentioned in this thread are both shit. I am not the preachy type so I'm not going to lecture you on how doing it natty is better or only x people should use it but simply in terms of results. Clen is a pain in the ass, feelin like a crack addict and cramping endlessly for a what, 3% bump in metabolism...not worth it. DNP I simply will not even talk about.

I would like to see a source on that claim.

Fasted training takes some adaptation, but unless you are completely depleting glycogen stores during your workouts, then it really doesn't matter, if you are then you will definitely see some drop off in performance.

I like intermittent fasting during cuts because after a few weeks, not eating during the day isn't very difficult and I can still go to bed on a full stomach, but it is not magic and just happens to work better for me.

[mikeymike]

(05-09-2016 09:36 AM)Harvey Specter Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 04:54 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  

Do not fasted train unless you just absolutely like how you feel doing it or are enhanced. It as a method to expedite fat loss has been debunked, in actuality it has been shown to slow fat loss over the course of the next 24 hrs. Not to mention it has been proven time and again that fasted training will lead to less effective workouts for the majority. If you lift light weight it may not crush your workouts but if you lift significant weight you will feel the drop off. If you are the rare individual who doesn't get the drop off in productivity and enjoys fasted training then I would at least recommend supplementing with EAAs prior/during.

Also cold showers is just nonsense. Again if you like how it feels knock yourself out but you aren't a better man for doing it, you're just a man that is colder for a few minutes per day. The studies on brown fat activation from cold immersion requires significant time under those conditions to see any benefit. In the few minutes a day you'd spend in the shower you'd be lucky if you lost even a pound over the course of a year.

I agree completely that any drug use with a sloppy diet is a waste of time, I'd go a step further and say the weight loss drugs mentioned in this thread are both shit. I am not the preachy type so I'm not going to lecture you on how doing it natty is better or only x people should use it but simply in terms of results. Clen is a pain in the ass, feelin like a crack addict and cramping endlessly for a what, 3% bump in metabolism...not worth it. DNP I simply will not even talk about.

I would like to see a source on that claim.

Fasted training takes some adaptation, but unless you are completely depleting glycogen stores during your workouts, then it really doesn't matter, if you are then you will definitely see some drop off in performance.

I like intermittent fasting during cuts because after a few weeks, not eating during the day isn't very difficult and I can still go to bed on a full stomach, but it is not magic and just happens to work better for me.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21411835

Nobody said don't IF, just don't fasted train.

[Harvey Specter]

(05-09-2016 09:50 AM)mikeymike Wrote:  

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21411835

Nobody said don't IF, just don't fasted train.

That is an interesting read, thanks for the link.

I had my doubts because I remember reading a study analyzed by Martin Behrkan (the leangains guy) that determined that vo2 was increased by fasting vs fed training which is the exact opposite of what this study says. His takeaway (though he definitely could be biased) was that training fasted was superior for several reasons. Either way, I am definitely no expert in biology so I don't think I am really qualified to evaluate the efficacy of either study.

[ScrapperTL]

Martin Berkhan is legend, the guy has presented mountains worth of data @ http://www.LeanGains.com promoting Intermittent Fasting & Fasted Training.

Likewise Victor Pride (bold and determined), Chris Deoudes (good looking loser), Mike Cernovich (danger and play) and our very own Roosh - have all been boasting about the endless benefits of Cold Showers for years.

You have not presented anything solid enough, aside from your own opinion, that would leave me to believe Fasted Training & Cold Showers are not extremely beneficial for improving body composition.

1 study revolving around 8 participants, that barely fills 1 paragraph worth of data and no caliper/body fat % testing of any sort?

[mikeymike]

(05-09-2016 11:05 AM)Harvey Specter Wrote:  

(05-09-2016 09:50 AM)mikeymike Wrote:  

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21411835

Nobody said don't IF, just don't fasted train.

That is an interesting read, thanks for the link.

I had my doubts because I remember reading a study analyzed by Martin Behrkan (the leangains guy) that determined that vo2 was increased by fasting vs fed training which is the exact opposite of what this study says. His takeaway (though he definitely could be biased) was that training fasted was superior for several reasons. Either way, I am definitely no expert in biology so I don't think I am really qualified to evaluate the efficacy of either study.

For sure, you do have to take someones bias into account when reading how somebody is interpreting these studies, Behrkan does make his living off this... the study I posted was pretty straight forward. No need to interpret anything no bias. There are a number of studies showing that weight loss is no better fasted vs fed so you just have to put it together. For me it's rather straight forward. If I can lift heavier with higher intensity for longer in a fed state I'm going to burn more. If fed is having me burn more cals thru the 24 hrs post and I'm pushing harder in my workouts I am burning more overall. Even Leangains has programs that account for training while fed. I don't use IF myself but I have no problem with IF because I can understand how it works and see some benefit. Fasted training however provides minimal tangible benefits outside of liking how it feels. If that's the case then do it but if you're doing it because you think the results are going to be superior I don't believe that to be the case, in fact I think it'll slow your progress. I think there is going to be better results long term, if one were inclined to apply IF to find a way to train fed while incorporating the fast into the rest of your day.

[Saweeep]

I find it absolutely terrifying that a 16 year old was taking any kind of PED at all, let alone these.

Fucking crazy.

[zatara]

(05-09-2016 11:40 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

I find it absolutely terrifying that a 16 year old was taking any kind of PED at all, let alone these.

Fucking crazy.

Jeese, I didn't notice that when I first read through the thread, just went back and saw it now. That makes everything so much worse. There is no reason in the world a 16 year old should be on DNP or Clen.

This is the kind of behavior that leads to one dying in a Thai sauna at 22 years old.

[mikeymike]

(05-09-2016 11:26 AM)ScrapperTL Wrote:  

Martin Berkhan is legend, the guy has presented mountains worth of data @ http://www.LeanGains.com promoting Intermittent Fasting & Fasted Training.

Likewise Victor Pride (bold and determined), Chris Deoudes (good looking loser), Mike Cernovich (danger and play) and our very own Roosh - have all been boasting about the endless benefits of Cold Showers for years.

You have not presented anything solid enough, aside from your own opinion, that would leave me to believe Fasted Training & Cold Showers are not extremely beneficial for improving body composition.

1 study revolving around 8 participants, that barely fills 1 paragraph worth of data and no caliper/body fat % testing of any sort?

If you want to pick and choose legends I can talk about real leading experts who have gone on to say that there is no upside to training fasted. Guys who have no skin in the game vs a guy who makes all his money on recommending fasting. Alan Aragon. Schoenfeld. Layne Norton. John Meadows, Chrisitian Thibodeau off the top of my head. IF has useful applications, fasted training does not.

I did say there was a benefit to cold immersion just not weight loss. It is a great recovery tool. For weight loss tho, pointless. The best studies done on brown fat when using cold immersion therapy had people lower their core temp for hours, 3 hours min per day in the case of one and the result was an extra 400ish cals per day. thats not a pound a week. How much do you think a cold shower for 5 minutes per day is going to do? Another had its participants in a cold respiration chamber all day and it burned roughly the same amount of cals. That isn't my opinion that is the studies...This is a case of the science showing something promising but having found no real practical application for it yet. Regarding pointing to non experts as your proof for cold immersion being an asset, I have no idea who 2 of them are don't visit their websites blogs but mikecf is a gym rat on trt, he's got reasons for being in shape, hard work not cold showers, wanna ask him how much of a difference cold water makes to his overall physique? ask him if he feels its the difference between somebody getting cut up or not, ask how much real weight he feels hes lost because of it. I dont care about anything else he feels on it, I said there were potential other benefits ask him specifically about how much hes lost because of his cold showers. I'll wait here for the answer. And no disrespect to Roosh, nothing but love but he's not in elite shape. Ive lived this life, Ive stepped on stage I train and prep with pros who are on stage today if theres an edge we'd be using it. I have zero reason to trash this beyond it simply doesn't work for weight loss. In the end its not hurting you so if somebody wants to try it, go ahead.

If you want to believe in fasted training so badly that this study doesn't sway you at all and leading experts don't phase you at all then what else can I say? You understand that is an abstract right? it was not a 1 paragraph study lol these studies aren't made so we can end discussions on message boards I wish I could hand you a 500 person study but we work with what we've got but the words are there for you to read, the experts tend to agree but if its working for you do your thing.