Hello fellas...This might be a bit beta by your standards but here goes. Kindly take 4 mins to read. It goes pretty quick, I promise!

So basically I have been gaming (if you wanna call it that) this girl. We started out as friends and didn't have much emotional feelings. However, as I got to know her more, I found that she was a diamond hidden away in the chaos of sloots around me. Turns out, my "friend" was a very nice, feminine, modern girl. Her cooking skills are amazing. She holds traditional views of marriage, home-making, and her commitment to her man. At the same time, she is very smart and is acing her upper div Physics and Chem classes with A's, B's etc. We started to hang out a lot and I became her "best" guy friend. She started sharing her secrets, past life, and all.

Cutting to the chase--we started to become really close. We'll cuddle, become cozy while watching movies, and care for each other so on. We both knew its not a friendship anymore. In one of these moments she asked me if I liked her and I played the right game and told her that it was more than liking blah blah (which was kind of true as I was falling for her). Things escalated. Pretty quick. In next couple of meetings, we hooked up. Things got really intensely physical (sex didn't happen).

Now today, all of a sudden, she texts me and tells me that we should create some distance. She says she is confused whether she likes me or is it just temporary feeling because I care for her and all.Also, she says that doesn't want to get too involved into all this since I'll be graduating soon from college and move away. Moreover, her family is kind of religious and they would not marry outside of their certain religious creed (of which I am not a part of). She feels that becoming physically too close will only make it harder for both of us later on. She wants to be practical because she says she knows that it is not gonna work out due to various factors (I kind of know that. Her family will NEVER let her marry me). She told me not to be nice to her or treat her special because she falls weak emotionally and ends up too close to me. I told her my feelings for her a natural and I'd continue to treat her the way I did before. She said then in that case, she is clear from her side and she'll distance herself on her own (although she doesn't want to lose me as a friend).

Now, brothers and experts in the field, what should I do? I have hooked up with another girl while I was talking to this girl--but believe me, it's not the same. I have become emotionally attached to this girl and I feel like she might be the girl I'd be willing to have a LTR or even marriage. She has almost all of the qualities that a man would want in her wife and especially in an era of endless sloot supply..finding a beautiful, hot girl with wife-material personality and views is hard. I don't want to let her go.

What should I do? FTOW approach is hard here fellas. She is just special to me. I don't enjoy hooking up with girls like I used to. This is different. Don't wanna let her go.

Please help

How many other women have you been with? What is your age? How many other guys has she been with and what is her age? Her parents are more important for her than you are. Just a fact. If you win over her parents you win her over. You are not just getting involved with her, you are marrying her family. Are you able to do this? That takes some major readjusting in your life style, thinking and beliefs, especially if they are religious. Personally, I do not think you are willing to do this. Hence, in the end you are likely suffering from a bit of oneitus.

Quote: (06-12-2016 06:55 PM)tanner Wrote:  

How many other women have you been with?

As in hooking up and casual?

7

Nothing serious tho. I was young (still am).

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What is your age?

23

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How many other guys has she been with and what is her age?

She never had sex with any guy before. However she did kissed one and became close with one. But told me it was quick and she distanced herself pretty quick. There were no emotions.

I was the first guy she is actually serious about emotionally. Or atleast that's what she told me.

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Her parents are more important for her than you are.

Offcourse. And that's a good quality in her. A woman prioritizing her close family rather than guys is a good sign. Shows that she'd take care and prioritize her husband after marriage.

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you are marrying her family. Are you able to do this? That takes some major readjusting in your life style, thinking and beliefs, especially if they are religious.

I'd be willing to marry her, if everything works out. Parents aren't that bad in a sense that she doesn't care that much about religion and all. I won't have to make many adjustments for her. And since I won't be living with her parents--I don't care much about their beliefs and all.

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Hence, in the end you are likely suffering from a bit of oneitus.

No, oneitus would be if she was just another college sloot. She isn't. When I say she is wife-material, I genuinely mean it. There are very few girls out there you'd be willing to wife and have kids with---especially in college. She is one of them. She is hot, confident, educated, and at the same time has good values and is feminine rather than being a 'feminist' idiot.

I feel that its more than oneitis

This situation is not complicated in the least bit. You're just new to dating.

Look, I'll fill you in on a secret - there is no such thing as "The One." There are plenty of women you'd be compatible with that you'll meet over the course of a lifetime. Despite rumors to the contrary, there are still plenty of women out there who are hot, can cook, and will please their man. There is no "one" woman that God created specially for you to descend from the heavens, who will make your life complete. Sorry, there's just not.

Frankly, you're too young to be looking for wife material in college. Practically everyone I know who got married in college ended up getting divorced. It's not to say you'll get bored of her, but sadly there is a good chance she'll get bored of you, and want to figure out what she "missed out" on. In my opinion, men should not even consider marriage before they're 30 - 35. Mostly because young women simply aren't ready for it, and after awhile, most feel like they've been missing out.

Practically, if she wants distance, give her distance. Go sign up for Crossfit or a jiu jitsu class. Start a small business. Ride your bike or play video games. Obsessing over her is not healthy nor productive.

She'll either come around or she won't. But if you pursue her, you're going to end up just coming off as needy and ultimately chasing her away.

Understand that a woman lost today is often a woman had tomorrow. A lot of times they run off, do something different, and then they're calling you in six months. Happens all the time. The harder you try and put her on lockdown, the more she's going to resist.

Finally, one thing you might be missing is that women do not communicate directly. She might be telling you it's one thing - her parents, you leaving college, or whatever - and then it turns out to be something entirely different that you have no idea about. Maybe she has a crush on Chad Thundercock, or has secretly gone on Tinder. You can't take her words for face value, and try to accommodate her by addressing the things she's saying. Judge her by her actions only, and act accordingly.

The advice on waiting until you are 35 is very good, for many reasons, but I'll point out one. If she is nearly the same age as you, then when you are 40, and are wealthy and fit, she will be hitting the wall, or will be well past it. Even if she stays slender, a woman's face in her 40's goes way downhill. Some women are luckier than others in this, and some are horribly unlucky. Look at a few pictures of wall victims. You're much better off having a wife at least 10 years younger, so she doesn't hit the wall until you are older. If you're 50 or 55, a 40 year old woman who takes care of herself is a lot easier on the eyes than she will be when you are both 40 at the same time.

Quote: (06-12-2016 08:24 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

This situation is not complicated in the least bit. You're just new to dating.

Look, I'll fill you in on a secret - there is no such thing as "The One." There are plenty of women you'd be compatible with that you'll meet over the course of a lifetime. Despite rumors to the contrary, there are still plenty of women out there who are hot, can cook, and will please their man. There is no "one" woman that God created specially for you to descend from the heavens, who will make your life complete. Sorry, there's just not.

Frankly, you're too young to be looking for wife material in college. Practically everyone I know who got married in college ended up getting divorced. It's not to say you'll get bored of her, but sadly there is a good chance she'll get bored of you, and want to figure out what she "missed out" on. In my opinion, men should not even consider marriage before they're 30 - 35. Mostly because young women simply aren't ready for it, and after awhile, most feel like they've been missing out.

Practically, if she wants distance, give her distance. Go sign up for Crossfit or a jiu jitsu class. Start a small business. Ride your bike or play video games. Obsessing over her is not healthy nor productive.

She'll either come around or she won't. But if you pursue her, you're going to end up just coming off as needy and ultimately chasing her away.

Understand that a woman lost today is often a woman had tomorrow. A lot of times they run off, do something different, and then they're calling you in six months. Happens all the time. The harder you try and put her on lockdown, the more she's going to resist.

Finally, one thing you might be missing is that women do not communicate directly. She might be telling you it's one thing - her parents, you leaving college, or whatever - and then it turns out to be something entirely different that you have no idea about. Maybe she has a crush on Chad Thundercock, or has secretly gone on Tinder. You can't take her words for face value, and try to accommodate her by addressing the things she's saying. Judge her by her actions only, and act accordingly.

Thank you sir for the post!

Ton of useful advice here. Well, lets see what happens. The scar is new so may be I'm feeling it more than usual.

I am probably gonna meet her in couple of days. Lets see what happens.

Well, it´s typical. I am the same age as you and experienced something similar last months. Anyway, life goes on and there will be another women, who won´t be the same, but it doesn´t mean they won´t be good enough.
It´s not gonna to be easy, but best option is to let her go. Every other option would hurt more. And if you let her go, she can eventually realize she desires you and need you. It´s only chance to get her at the moment. If you push her, you will lose her definitely.

She developed feeling too but she's scared that it will brutally end, either by her leaving or her parents getting in her way. It's a classic case of "I don't wanna be hurt". She prefers to hurt a bit now by distancing herself from you than being hurt a lot by the big break up waiting to happen.

Thing is, chicks always say they want distance themselves but they have no idea how hard that actually is when they feel something real towards you. It's like a constant itching. I don't buy that she will just cut you off and live her life happy. Even when she says that, I bet she won't. And because you don't go nowhere and she CAN contact you anytime most probably she will do it. It might be something casual [because she's allegedly detaching, yeah right..] but your presence alone will make her happy inside. Then she will feel guilty of giving in. Then she will crave you more. She will fight with herself. All that while keeping her "I'm fine" face. The more time she will spend with you the more she will get attached to you. It's too late for her now. She's under your influence. She slipped and is already falling down now so to speak. The only way she could get out of that cycle is by completely cutting you out of her life completely today. I doubt she can do it.

Treat her the same. Don't worry what she says. Give her some space but stay in touch. Stay cool and have your impact on her.

Side question, how do you view your potential relationship with her when there is no chance she can eventually marry you?

Pedestalization of the year.

Oh to be young & in lust...

Quote: (06-13-2016 03:51 AM)XXL Wrote:  

She developed feeling too but she's scared that it will brutally end, either by her leaving or her parents getting in her way. It's a classic case of "I don't wanna be hurt". She prefers to hurt a bit now by distancing herself from you than being hurt a lot by the big break up waiting to happen.

That is EXACTLY what she tells me all the time.

When she was texting me about how she will distance herself from me and we are both just good friends blah blah..she wrote it multiple times "Please kill me. You have no idea how hard it is for me to say all this to you" etc.

Quote:Quote:

Thing is, chicks always say they want distance themselves but they have no idea how hard that actually is when they feel something real towards you. It's like a constant itching. I don't buy that she will just cut you off and live her life happy. Even when she says that, I bet she won't. And because you don't go nowhere and she CAN contact you anytime most probably she will do it. It might be something casual [because she's allegedly detaching, yeah right..] but your presence alone will make her happy inside. Then she will feel guilty of giving in. Then she will crave you more. She will fight with herself. All that while keeping her "I'm fine" face. The more time she will spend with you the more she will get attached to you. It's too late for her now. She's under your influence. She slipped and is already falling down now so to speak. The only way she could get out of that cycle is by completely cutting you out of her life completely today. I doubt she can do it.

Treat her the same. Don't worry what she says. Give her some space but stay in touch. Stay cool and have your impact on her.

Thanks for the advice sir. She isn't completely cutting me off. I am sure i'll hang out with her and all. Whenever we say good bye etc when she drops me off--I always kiss her on the forehead or something. I plan to keep doing it even though she told me not to.

Moreover, I have started giving her bit more compliments too. On her snapchat pics and what not.

Lets see how it goes.

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Side question, how do you view your potential relationship with her when there is no chance she can eventually marry you?

Well, I want to keep this thing going as long as it can. I still have couple of months in university (she has more than a year left after that). I don't want to not enjoy her affection and company in my last couple of months. After that, may be it'll be easier for me to move on because it will end on my terms. But right now, I don't want her to 'move me away' so to speak.

Especially when she was the one who pushed the things to next level after I showed her care and affection.

Like last time, I, her, and one of our mutual female friend that I met through her were hanging out in our mutual friend's house--and I had to drop the mutual friend somewhere. Then came back. Came kinda close with her since we were alone. She held my hand and pulled me in--resting with her eyes closed.

And then I had to go and pick our friend again to bring her home--and I told her that. As I was about to leave, she grabbed me--pulled me in--told me she didn't want me to go. And then things became intensely physical afterwards...

So after this episode--literally three days later she is like "Yeah I'm confused if I like you or just temporary feeling cuz you care for me. We should distance ourselves blah blah"..

Like wtf?

Oh man...women and their confusing ways of wrecking your peace of mind.

Quote: (06-13-2016 03:51 AM)XXL Wrote:  

She developed feeling too but she's scared that it will brutally end, either by her leaving or her parents getting in her way. It's a classic case of "I don't wanna be hurt". She prefers to hurt a bit now by distancing herself from you than being hurt a lot by the big break up waiting to happen.

Sorry, not buying this. Aint no bitch who wanted to get fucked ever said "But we can't, I don't want to get hurt"

Well...ok, they may have said that, but I'll be damned if they didn't act on their impulse.

Quote: (06-13-2016 04:47 PM)Tyrion Wrote:  

That is EXACTLY what she tells me all the time.

Put less stock into what she says. That's the reason you're in this "complicated situation" in the first place.


Back to the Original Post....


Your problem is one of attitude. It's a lack of aggression that has you in this spot. And spare me the touchy-feely "shes the one" routine. If you want a girl to fall in love with you, you should always err on the side of more boldness rather than less.

Here's some examples of your feebleness on display:

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So basically I have been gaming (if you wanna call it that) this girl.

What do you mean, if we wanna call it that? Are you trying to get laid here or not?

Quote:Quote:

We started out as friends and didn't have much emotional feelings

Strike two...

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I found that she was a diamond hidden away in the chaos of sloots around me. Turns out, my "friend" was a very nice, feminine, modern girl. Her cooking skills are amazing. She holds traditional views of marriage, home-making, and her commitment to her man. At the same time, she is very smart and is acing her upper div Physics and Chem classes with A's, B's etc. We started to hang out a lot and I became her "best" guy friend. She started sharing her secrets, past life, and all.

...and so the pedestal is erected.

Quote:Quote:

We'll cuddle, become cozy while watching movies, and care for each other so on.

I'm a little surprised I'm the first to mention this, but...none of this had as much of an impact on her as it did you.

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Now today, all of a sudden, she texts me and tells me that we should create some distance. She says she is confused whether she likes me or is it just temporary feeling because I care for her and all.Also, she says that doesn't want to get too involved into all this since I'll be graduating soon from college and move away.

There's a Rational Male article called "the medium is the message" and I think it applies here 100 percent. When a girl wants to be with you (or fuck) it's usually crystal clear. There is little ambiguity. This convoluted bullshit is NOT a shit test designed to shake your frame. It's to let you down lightly while saving face so she's not "the bad guy" at the end of the day. It's fucked up but that is how women operate. She likes you just enough not to try to damage your ego. Ironically shes doing you a disservice in the process.

And what the fuck are you on about marrying this chick for? Are you insane? The bitch is lukewarm about you and you wanna slip a rock on it? That wouldn't work out any way you slice it.

Oh and next time...newbie section.

Massive oneitus and you just friend zoned yourself . Total lost cause. Game other girls and forget her.

Quote: (06-13-2016 06:22 PM)Guitarman Wrote:  

Massive oneitus and you just friend zoned yourself . Total lost cause. Game other girls and forget her.

How did I friendzone myself when we started as friends and ended up getting physical on bed?

You do realize that getting physical on bed part comes later.

We both know its not going to work out and hence she wants me to start hanging out less with her because she knows it would end soon enough (which is correct assessment of hers btw).

Not being defensive or something---but I just want to be clear as to what do you mean when you say I friend-zoned myself?[/i]

Quote: (06-13-2016 05:17 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

What do you mean, if we wanna call it that? Are you trying to get laid here or not?

Your entire premise lies on the fact that I'm trying to fuck her.

Negative.

Offcourse, I'd love to have sex with her eventually but that is not my 'problem' so to speak.

I have hooked up with other girls while I have been talking to her (she doesn't know, ofc).

The thing is that I feel a certain emotional attachment to this girl and she isn't just somebody I find hot and would want to f*ck.

With her, its more than that--and hence this entire thread.

Otherwise, I have been through similar situation with girls and all I have to do is FTOW approach and move on. Easy.

With her, I want to have her in my life. It's not just a banging game for me.

Quote: (06-13-2016 07:17 PM)Tyrion Wrote:  

Quote: (06-13-2016 05:17 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

What do you mean, if we wanna call it that? Are you trying to get laid here or not?

Your entire premise lies on the fact that I'm trying to fuck her.

Negative.

Offcourse, I'd love to have sex with her eventually but that is not my 'problem' so to speak.

I have hooked up with other girls while I have been talking to her (she doesn't know, ofc).

The thing is that I feel a certain emotional attachment to this girl and she isn't just somebody I find hot and would want to f*ck.

With her, its more than that--and hence this entire thread.

Otherwise, I have been through similar situation with girls and all I have to do is FTOW approach and move on. Easy.

With her, I want to have her in my life. It's not just a banging game for me.

I see. So the disconnect here is that you are under the false impression that you want this woman to have a strong and lasting bond with you, yet you fail to realize that in order for this to happen, sex is a necessary first step.

Women bond through sex (she hasn't done this yet). Men bond through emotional / physical sacrifice. (You apparently have done this, though). I didn't pen that phrase, forgot who did.


It would make sense that you know you want to commit to her as you have invested the necessary time into forming a bond with her, but since you haven't fucked her multiple times and felt her quivering in your arms saying "I love you, OP" she is naturally not going to reciprocate your level of investment.

Chicks usually fall for guys after getting fucked by them multiple times.


Multiple times.


Not typically before.

I'm going to echo red_pillage here...

Real life isn't an episode of Dawson's Creek, where she's anguished and tormented about whether she loves Pacey or Dawson, afraid of falling too far in love.

In real life, when a woman is into you, you'll know it. She'll bend over backwards to see you, be around you, and please you. To quote the Rational Male - desire cannot be negotiated. It's almost animalistic - there's something primal about it. And it's not based on how "in love with you" she is, it's about how much she desires you.

In addition, women don't really think long term when it comes to relationships. Everything is in the moment. How many times have you met a girl and thought "Gee, I really like you, and it seems like we'd be compatible, but I'm just so worried about getting hurt that I'm going to avoid this!" Yeah, right. It's silly when you think about it. A woman who claims she's afraid to get in a relationship with you because she's scared of liking you "too much" is lying.

Once again, to echo red_pillage, women develop a bond with you through sex. When they desire you, they want nothing more than to please you, and for you to validate them through enjoying sex with them and in some instances producing offspring.

Unfortunately, you've convinced yourself that dating is like being in a romantic sitcom or Dawson's Creek, where she has to "fall in love with you for who you are" rather than desire you as a man.

Frankly, right now it seems like she's enjoying some cheap drama at your expense and getting validation over the fact that you're "so in love with her."

Give her some distance and go do your thing. Chances are you'll meet hundreds, if not thousands of other women over your lifetime.

I agree with Hank Moody and Red_Pillage here. You've classically friend-zoned yourself by being her friend.

You even said that you're going to keep doing the things you did before you got more intense with her, like kiss her on the forehead.

Look, I'm a guy that is very affectionate towards his female friends even in the midst of a LTR. I'll hug them tight, I'll smack them, I'll even massage their hands, arms, shoulders, backs, legs, and even asses (usually back of hand or palm), but I would never kiss their fucking foreheads.

That's awkward unless you're a girl's lover or her brother.

There's a lot else I'm suspicious about in your post. I'm quoting the weird parts below:

Quote:Quote:

Hello fellas...This might be a bit beta by your standards but here goes. Kindly take 4 mins to read. It goes pretty quick, I promise!

You're on a men's forum asking for advice. A little humbleness is appropriate, but this above is classic approval seeking nonsense. Why are you already convincing us that we should read the thread? You're very nearly groveling. I can see why she's on the fence about you (at best).

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So basically I have been gaming (if you wanna call it that) this girl.

Why are you looking down on the word "gaming?" Are you too good for this, Mr. White Knight?

Quote:Quote:

We started out as friends and didn't have much emotional feelings. However, as I got to know her more, I found that she was a diamond hidden away in the chaos of sloots around me.

So she's a special snowflake? You have to emphasize that the other girls are sloots for no reason other than to put her up on your pedestal.

Quote:Quote:

Turns out, my "friend" was a very nice, feminine, modern girl.

The bolded above is a positive how? How is being a modern girl positive?

Quote:Quote:

Her cooking skills are amazing. She holds traditional views of marriage, home-making, and her commitment to her man. At the same time, she is very smart and is acing her upper div Physics and Chem classes with A's, B's etc.

Her cooking skills are not amazing, I can guarantee that. There are VERY few people who truly have amazing cooking skills. Again, you're putting her up on a pedestal. If she's so amazing, would you find her cooking amongst any of the chefs of the finest dining restaurants? Those are "amazing" cooking skills, not hers.

What exactly is a girl who has traditional views of home-making doing studying Physics and Chem classes in college? That's not really congruent.

Quote:Quote:

We started to hang out a lot and I became her "best" guy friend. She started sharing her secrets, past life, and all.

Becoming a girl's best guy friend is almost exclusively a death knell on strong attraction. You conveniently skip past sharing and of this "past life" she has or her "secrets." I imagine she's not a perfect snowflake in these, but you left it out.

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Cutting to the chase--we started to become really close. We'll cuddle, become cozy while watching movies, and care for each other so on. We both knew its not a friendship anymore. In one of these moments she asked me if I liked her and I played the right game and told her that it was more than liking blah blah (which was kind of true as I was falling for her). Things escalated. Pretty quick. In next couple of meetings, we hooked up. Things got really intensely physical (sex didn't happen).

You hint around what happened. What happened? You kissed and gave her tongue? You dry-humped? You got a hand on bare tit for a few moments? Nobody is going to knock you for having very little physical experience but saying you're hooking up with other girls gives us the impression that hooking up was something significant, not any of the above.

Quote:Quote:

Now today, all of a sudden, she texts me and tells me that we should create some distance. She says she is confused whether she likes me or is it just temporary feeling because I care for her and all.Also, she says that doesn't want to get too involved into all this since I'll be graduating soon from college and move away. Moreover, her family is kind of religious and they would not marry outside of their certain religious creed (of which I am not a part of). She feels that becoming physically too close will only make it harder for both of us later on. She wants to be practical because she says she knows that it is not gonna work out due to various factors (I kind of know that. Her family will NEVER let her marry me). She told me not to be nice to her or treat her special because she falls weak emotionally and ends up too close to me. I told her my feelings for her a natural and I'd continue to treat her the way I did before. She said then in that case, she is clear from her side and she'll distance herself on her own (although she doesn't want to lose me as a friend).

The part in bold above is the only important part. She's re-friend-zoning you and she doesn't want to lose you as a friend.

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Now, brothers and experts in the field, what should I do? I have hooked up with another girl while I was talking to this girl--but believe me, it's not the same. I have become emotionally attached to this girl and I feel like she might be the girl I'd be willing to have a LTR or even marriage. She has almost all of the qualities that a man would want in her wife and especially in an era of endless sloot supply..finding a beautiful, hot girl with wife-material personality and views is hard. I don't want to let her go.

What should I do? FTOW approach is hard here fellas. She is just special to me. I don't enjoy hooking up with girls like I used to. This is different. Don't wanna let her go.

Please help

Cut ties and move on. Fucking ten other women is not hard, it's fun. She's not special, you caught feelings for a girl that mostly just wants you to be her friend and comfort her. You're comfortable. Like a cozy blanket to use for warmth or a leather couch to use to lay down on.

I'm going to repeat your own words:

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She has almost all of the qualities that a man would want in her wife

Even if she does, she is missing the most important quality of all if you're that man. For her to want you to be her man instead of her best man friend.

Sucks kid, but them's the breaks, and once you suck it up and move in a positive direction you'll be laughing to yourself as to why you ever thought this girl was so important in the first place.

Move on and get other girls.

Reading this thread was like going back to Gaming School 101 thanks to the advice from Hank and Pillage. Unfortunately OP ain't ready to fallow the advice given. He'll have to learn the hard way!!

Theres 4 billion other women in the world, how are you so sure that one of them isn't better in every way than this sheila?

Quote: (06-13-2016 04:47 PM)Tyrion Wrote:  

Quote: (06-13-2016 03:51 AM)XXL Wrote:  

She developed feeling too but she's scared that it will brutally end, either by her leaving or her parents getting in her way. It's a classic case of "I don't wanna be hurt". She prefers to hurt a bit now by distancing herself from you than being hurt a lot by the big break up waiting to happen.

That is EXACTLY what she tells me all the time.

When she was texting me about how she will distance herself from me and we are both just good friends blah blah..she wrote it multiple times "Please kill me. You have no idea how hard it is for me to say all this to you" etc.

She's just scared about what is coming if she get really attached. It's normal. Especially in your case that you started as friends and then when friendship established something has changed and now it's evolving. Keep doing what you do, she will say a lot of irrational things and do random stuff. It's why she's fighting with herself.

Quote: (06-13-2016 04:47 PM)Tyrion Wrote:  

Like last time, I, her, and one of our mutual female friend that I met through her were hanging out in our mutual friend's house--and I had to drop the mutual friend somewhere. Then came back. Came kinda close with her since we were alone. She held my hand and pulled me in--resting with her eyes closed.

And then I had to go and pick our friend again to bring her home--and I told her that. As I was about to leave, she grabbed me--pulled me in--told me she didn't want me to go. And then things became intensely physical afterwards...

So after this episode--literally three days later she is like "Yeah I'm confused if I like you or just temporary feeling cuz you care for me. We should distance ourselves blah blah"..

Like wtf?

Oh man...women and their confusing ways of wrecking your peace of mind.

Again, she's scared. She wants you and doesn't at the same time. There are two sides fighting with each other and that's why one time she says no, another time she gets touchy, lovely etc. She got devil and angel over her shoulders talking to her at all times. She doesn't even wants to confuse you on purpose it's just a external expression of her internal war. Expect that.

Quote: (06-13-2016 05:17 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

Quote: (06-13-2016 03:51 AM)XXL Wrote:  

She developed feeling too but she's scared that it will brutally end, either by her leaving or her parents getting in her way. It's a classic case of "I don't wanna be hurt". She prefers to hurt a bit now by distancing herself from you than being hurt a lot by the big break up waiting to happen.

Sorry, not buying this. Aint no bitch who wanted to get fucked ever said "But we can't, I don't want to get hurt"

Well...ok, they may have said that, but I'll be damned if they didn't act on their impulse.

So you're wrong about this particular situation. Getting fucked is the last thing on her mind right now. She can sleep with him at a snap of her finger. She's thinking long term. She knows she will get way more attached by having regular sex with him which will make potential break up harder. It's so obvious. If it was random encounter or something like that then you're right. But it's not. Take a look at the big picture. This is not about sex AT ALL.

However what I don't buy is this...

Quote: (06-13-2016 05:17 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

When a girl wants to be with you (or fuck) it's usually crystal clear. There is little ambiguity. This convoluted bullshit is NOT a shit test designed to shake your frame. It's to let you down lightly while saving face so she's not "the bad guy" at the end of the day. It's fucked up but that is how women operate. She likes you just enough not to try to damage your ego. Ironically shes doing you a disservice in the process.

Nope. In real life there are many different things and problems along the way that dilute that "crystal clear" conviction. Sometimes it is crystal clear sometimes it's not. When the girl is not crazy on love in you it doesn't mean she won't be. Time and game is on your side. Speaking your language.. nexting every problematic bitch on your way is not the way to win the game. I notice the same black and white type of thinking typical for game guys, like, she's either this or that, period. All it takes is some common sense and empathy to recognize what's happening and how to solve it. And some enthusiasm.

Next one...

Quote: (06-13-2016 08:35 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

In real life, when a woman is into you, you'll know it. She'll bend over backwards to see you, be around you, and please you. To quote the Rational Male - desire cannot be negotiated. It's almost animalistic - there's something primal about it. And it's not based on how "in love with you" she is, it's about how much she desires you.

There's that animalistic, primal, woo woo desire and then there's real life. Desire and real life often fight with each other. For a girl to desire you so much to discard everything in her life for you her mind has to be almost completely shut off and she has to view you as the way the truth and the life. It takes certain game, opportunity and luck. It's an ideal scenario. I know what you mean but what you say is irrelevant to this thread. There's no point to compare OP's girl to an ideal scenario. It's everything BUT ideal now. Of course she's lukewarm how can she not be? She is scared, massively on the fence, there's too much internal resistance and stress crippling her for that primal thing to even take place. It can blossom only once she opens up for real and allow him to "take" her. But it didn't happen and can't happen quickly now so the real question is how to get that to happen, not speculate what it should look like once it already happened.

Quote: (06-13-2016 08:35 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

In addition, women don't really think long term when it comes to relationships. Everything is in the moment. How many times have you met a girl and thought "Gee, I really like you, and it seems like we'd be compatible, but I'm just so worried about getting hurt that I'm going to avoid this!" Yeah, right. It's silly when you think about it. A woman who claims she's afraid to get in a relationship with you because she's scared of liking you "too much" is lying.

Say what? Yes they do think long term and they do it a lot. If they didn't guys would be banging waaay more chicks waaaay quicker waaay more regularly. It's exactly because girls are thinking too much and play their dramatic role of being hard to get you have to "game" them. It's the reason why you had to learn game in the first place to awake that desire. And the funny thing is.. what you do it's only 50% of success. The other half is her. The girl has to be ready and open towards you to even let your charm reach her. If she's kind of closed [like OP's girl] you can game all you want and cast your desire spell on her all day and she will not give in. Even when she wants relationship she's having even more doubts and believe me thinks A LOT and this is because she knows very well that once she make that final step and gets involved and really attached and develop trusts and submits to you on every level possible that a woman can, she then knows that you fucking got her. She's literally yours now. Girls crave that total submission but it's risky if they choose the wrong guy, especially when there is downside already known.

This is exact case of OP. He wants to know how to make her cross that final checkpoint, not to read about theory how she should already be desiring him. Here's a good theory of mine, we shouldn't ever talk about game, we should know it all and do it without thinking. How's that for an answer to upcoming questions?

You guys are right to some extent but again, saying "if she was into you you would have no problem" is shit advice, completely irrelevant here. How is that suppose to help? When a guy asks you about his FBW routine you don't lecture him how he should be already stronger to do 4-5 days split with many sets of tough compounds and isolation exercises.

Shots fired

PS. I give OP props for trying to win. Most game guys are lazy as fuck, would press "next" button, go back to chasing other tail and learn nothing new along the way. OP, you'll learn a lot by trying to take such case to the end, you'll see a different side of game, pay attention, that's good. Besides you fuck around with other girls too so good to you. It' not my business if you're "right" to go after her or why you do it. If anything changes, ask. Good luck.

Quote: (06-14-2016 03:58 AM)XXL Wrote:  

Quote: (06-13-2016 08:35 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

In real life, when a woman is into you, you'll know it. She'll bend over backwards to see you, be around you, and please you. To quote the Rational Male - desire cannot be negotiated. It's almost animalistic - there's something primal about it. And it's not based on how "in love with you" she is, it's about how much she desires you.

There's that animalistic, primal, woo woo desire and then there's real life. Desire and real life often fight with each other. For a girl to desire you so much to discard everything in her life for you her mind has to be almost completely shut off and she has to view you as the way the truth and the life. It takes certain game, opportunity and luck. It's an ideal scenario. I know what you mean but what you say is irrelevant to this thread. There's no point to compare OP's girl to an ideal scenario. It's everything BUT ideal now. Of course she's lukewarm how can she not be? She is scared, massively on the fence, there's too much internal resistance and stress crippling her for that primal thing to even take place. It can blossom only once she opens up for real and allow him to "take" her. But it didn't happen and can't happen quickly now so the real question is how to get that to happen, not speculate what it should look like once it already happened.

Quote: (06-13-2016 08:35 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

In addition, women don't really think long term when it comes to relationships. Everything is in the moment. How many times have you met a girl and thought "Gee, I really like you, and it seems like we'd be compatible, but I'm just so worried about getting hurt that I'm going to avoid this!" Yeah, right. It's silly when you think about it. A woman who claims she's afraid to get in a relationship with you because she's scared of liking you "too much" is lying.

Say what? Yes they do think long term and they do it a lot. If they didn't guys would be banging waaay more chicks waaaay quicker waaay more regularly. It's exactly because girls are thinking too much and play their dramatic role of being hard to get you have to "game" them. It's the reason why you had to learn game in the first place to awake that desire. And the funny thing is.. what you do it's only 50% of success. The other half is her. The girl has to be ready and open towards you to even let your charm reach her. If she's kind of closed [like OP's girl] you can game all you want and cast your desire spell on her all day and she will not give in. Even when she wants relationship she's having even more doubts and believe me thinks A LOT and this is because she knows very well that once she make that final step and gets involved and really attached and develop trusts and submits to you on every level possible that a woman can, she then knows that you fucking got her. She's literally yours now. Girls crave that total submission but it's risky if they choose the wrong guy, especially when there is downside already known.

This is exact case of OP. He wants to know how to make her cross that final checkpoint, not to read about theory how she should already be desiring him. Here's a good theory of mine, we shouldn't ever talk about game, we should know it all and do it without thinking. How's that for an answer to upcoming questions?

You guys are right to some extent but again, saying "if she was into you you would have no problem" is shit advice, completely irrelevant here. How is that suppose to help? When a guy asks you about his FBW routine you don't lecture him how he should be already stronger to do 4-5 days split with many sets of tough compounds and isolation exercises.

Shots fired

PS. I give OP props for trying to win. Most game guys are lazy as fuck, would press "next" button, go back to chasing other tail and learn nothing new along the way. OP, you'll learn a lot by trying to take such case to the end, you'll see a different side of game, pay attention, that's good. Besides you fuck around with other girls too so good to you. It' not my business if you're "right" to go after her or why you do it. If anything changes, ask. Good luck.

There's a thread on here, and the question is discuss the guy you know who gets the most tail.

My answer is a local bartender I know. Tall, thin, deep blue eyes, and tattoos. When he tends the bar, it's like he's in charge of the entire universe. He's funny in a sarcastic way, and has no problem making fun of customers he hates. Whenever I go to the bar and he's behind it, I have to admit it's going to be a good time.

The tail he pulls is unbelievable - from your average waitress smuts, to professional women you'd never see dating a bartender. This guy pulls so much tail with virtually no effort that it's unreal.

My point being that desire isn't always logical. It's not negotiated. It's either there or it's not.

In any event, this women isn't "scared of becoming attached" - it's just that the desire isn't really there. If it were, she would traverse deserts to make this happen.

What I suspect is going on is that she likes the friendship but isn't necessarily sexually attracted. She's conflicted to the extent that she likes spending time with Tyrion, but she wonders why the sexual desire isn't there. From there she's making excuses and pulling back. Hooking up confirmed that. She probably wants to feel sexually attracted, and now she's confused.

If desire and connection was there, she'd never leave his dorm room.

@ XXL

Quote:Quote:

There's that animalistic, primal, woo woo desire and then there's real life. Desire and real life often fight with each other. For a girl to desire you so much to discard everything in her life for you her mind has to be almost completely shut off and she has to view you as the way the truth and the life. It takes certain game, opportunity and luck. It's an ideal scenario. I know what you mean but what you say is irrelevant to this thread.

Oh but it isn't. It's quite relevant. I don't know about you, but I don't like to invest time or effort into girls that are lukewarm about me. To do otherwise goes against abundance. That was one of the first game lessons I learned when I was a teenager...I had "asked a girl out" and she said "maybe". I went and asked my mentor (I was lucky enough to have one) and he said "Forget her. You want someone who's going to say YES!".


The same sort of thing applies here, all the emotional mumbo jumbo notwithstanding.

Quote:Quote:

There's no point to compare OP's girl to an ideal scenario.

What you call an ideal scenario I call playing to win.

Quote:Quote:

f course she's lukewarm how can she not be? She is scared, massively on the fence, there's too much internal resistance and stress crippling her for that primal thing to even take place. It can blossom only once she opens up for real and allow him to "take" her.

You are speaking about this chick like you know her personally. What makes you so sure about her motivations? You’re getting way too specific here. Hank and I are speaking in general terms, based on experience that is shared by us and many others here.

Quote:Quote:

But it didn't happen and can't happen quickly now so the real question is how to get that to happen, not speculate what it should look like once it already happened.

Then we arrive at the crux of the matter. Game.

If you want to fuck/LTR/make a girl fall in love, you GAME her. This is the critical point that you and OP are missing. It's not uncommon for newbs to think their situation is unique or, in this case, "complicated". It's not.

It's a lack of game and aggression and KNOWING WHAT HE WANTS that has the OP in this spot.

Quote:Quote:

Say what? Yes they do think long term and they do it a lot. If they didn't guys would be banging waaay more chicks waaaay quicker waaay more regularly.

Who's saying they aren't?

Quote:Quote:

It's exactly because girls are thinking too much and play their dramatic role of being hard to get you have to "game" them. It's the reason why you had to learn game in the first place to awake that desire.

I agree.

Quote:Quote:

And the funny thing is.. what you do it's only 50% of success. The other half is her. The girl has to be ready and open towards you to even let your charm reach her. If she's kind of closed [like OP's girl] you can game all you want and cast your desire spell on her all day and she will not give in

You are proving the above points made by others for him to move on and bang chicks who are receptive to his advances and not wrapped up in an emotional hamsterfest.

Quote:Quote:

Girls crave that total submission but it's risky if they choose the wrong guy, especially when there is downside already known.

It's risky if they detect beta.

Quote:Quote:

This is exact case of OP. He wants to know how to make her cross that final checkpoint, not to read about theory how she should already be desiring him.

It's not likely to happen, because of the above mentioned reasons. If it does, it won't be because he doubled down on his emotional pleading I can tell you that much. Here's something I'd be willing to postulate: She fucks the next guy she dates fairly quickly. How will the OP feel then? Where will all his "shes different" and "shes marriage material" and "shes the one" nonsense have led up to at that point? Any way you slice it, OP's in for some hurtin' if he sticks around her long enough to find out what we here already know.


I can hear the pedestal crashing down now..

Essentially he's buttered her up for someone who is alpha enough not to hesitate.

Quote:Quote:

You guys are right to some extent but again, saying "if she was into you you would have no problem" is shit advice, completely irrelevant here. How is that suppose to help? When a guy asks you about his FBW routine you don't lecture him how he should be already stronger to do 4-5 days split with many sets of tough compounds and isolation exercises.

It's not shit advice. He came to a GAME forum to ask questions about getting a girl. He received advice here that goes beyond the scope of his particular situation, whether he wishes to extrapolate the advice given to apply to ALL GIRLS (the actual endgame for those of us who see the big picture) is up to him.

He has made the mistake of being honest with his feelings with this broad. Never do that. Sociopathic? Maybe. Effective? Absolutely. She knows where OP stands, there's no mystery anymore. She's got him right where she wants him, and will keep him waiting there as an emotional tampon until a real alpha comes along and does the deed.


The takeaway:


Telling a girl how much you care about her before fucking her or before shes confessed her undying love for you is akin to showing your opponent a full house and saying "Please, please go all in!"

Where is Ja Rul- I mean WIA so I can make sense of all this?!?

Quote: (06-14-2016 08:48 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

There's a thread on here, and the question is discuss the guy you know who gets the most tail.

My answer is a local bartender I know. Tall, thin, deep blue eyes, and tattoos. When he tends the bar, it's like he's in charge of the entire universe. He's funny in a sarcastic way, and has no problem making fun of customers he hates. Whenever I go to the bar and he's behind it, I have to admit it's going to be a good time.

The tail he pulls is unbelievable - from your average waitress smuts, to professional women you'd never see dating a bartender. This guy pulls so much tail with virtually no effort that it's unreal.

Great. Good for him. Thing is, it's obvious that this guy does something completely different than what OP did so I don't see how it's relevant here. It only confirms what I said before. You give inapplicable advice to a guy by comparing him to some pulling bartending machine on 'how it should be done' and lecturing him about how real desire looks like in real life. Cool story bro but you're in wrong thread.

Quote: (06-14-2016 08:48 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

My point being that desire isn't always logical. It's not negotiated.

True.

Quote: (06-14-2016 08:48 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

It's either there or it's not.

Desire can happen right away, faster, slower or never. If desire isn't there from the get go it's possible to manufacture it over certain period of time with game, opportunity and luck. It's been proven and tested. Plenty of girls hated my guts at first and became obsessively into me later on once I reached them and made strong impact over some period of time. In OP's case I think it starts blossoming but there are obstacles that need to be dealt with.

Quote: (06-14-2016 08:48 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

In any event, this women isn't "scared of becoming attached" - it's just that the desire isn't really there. If it were, she would traverse deserts to make this happen.

OK so when it's not there right away then what do you suggest? Drop the ball and go home? Have any solution? I agree desire isn't there YET. It's on Tyrion to create it [if he wants].

Quote: (06-14-2016 08:48 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

What I suspect is going on is that she likes the friendship but isn't necessarily sexually attracted. She's conflicted to the extent that she likes spending time with Tyrion, but she wonders why the sexual desire isn't there. From there she's making excuses and pulling back. Hooking up confirmed that. She probably wants to feel sexually attracted, and now she's confused.

If desire and connection was there, she'd never leave his dorm room.

She is attracted. I'm 100% sure she is. But she's not some dumb bitch who jumps on any dick anytime anywhere just because she's attracted. She simply has her own issues at the same time so she's getting pulled in two opposite directions simultaneously which is why she acts like that.

There is old saying in game: Attraction doesn't get you laid. Comfort does [meaning: attraction + comfort]. She's not comfortable. She knows there are potential repercussions from her family or from break up etc. In short she can't relax which is key for sexual energy to flow freely. That's my prediction and I'm damn sure about it.