Are love and ownership inseparable when it comes to male love towards a woman?

I've noticed that women are able to love a man without feeling that they own him. They might want to make him "their own" but it's far from a deal breaker if he's not which explains why they're more comfortable with moving on quickly.

Never met a guy however, who loves a woman without feeling a complete sense of ownership and entitlement towards her.

I believe if i can find that perfect balance of being able to separate love and ownership, my relationship game/aloof attitude would triple.

Do any of you guys have experience with this?

By "love" do you mean want to be your wife and the mother of your children? If that's the case then it only makes sense that you want her to be "yours" and no one else's.

In the past I have fallen in love with women who did not feel the same way - women who did not intend to be loyal to me though I was to them. Those were one-sided relationships and the love was a poor decision that lead to heartache.

The only woman I love unconditionally is my mother.

As I am older and more mature now, I don't believe I could allow myself to fall for a woman who does not submit to me.

I have heard she must love you more than her.

The more you try to fight against your primitive instincts the more miserable you will become.

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I've noticed that women are able to love a man without feeling that they own him. They might want to make him "their own" but it's far from a deal breaker if he's not which explains why they're more comfortable with moving on quickly.

You have described just about no woman I've ever met.

Men (men men) have a sense of ownership coupled with a sense of power. There is a strong part of their instinct that says "if I ain't dead then this aint over". Their monkey brain contends that they only have to smash their competitor's brain with a rock and then things will be back on track.

Women (women women) on the other hand have the same sense of ownership without the sense of power to accompany it. Their response to being shunned by a lover is more one of despair as they have no primitive programming that allows for a recourse. Regardless, the more frequently it happens the more desensitised to it they become.

The two responses cross over in instances where a woman is at the masculine end of the feminine scale or a man is at the feminine end of the masculine scale, which is more and more often these days as traditional gender roles are discouraged.

I don't think women have a sense of ownership over a man at any point in a relationship. I think if they are with a weaker man, they may shit test him and perhaps try to get resources out of him, but he will always be "this guy", not her guy. "This guy I went out with last night bought me a shitty taco. This guy I met at the concert let me sleep at his apartment last night but we didn't have sex". A woman who loves a guy, on the other hand, will think of him as her protector. Only a low-quality woman, an overweight feminist, would claim ownership of a man stronger and more physically able than her. Heck, mothers basically pass over control of their teenage sons to their father starting at age 14. My mom did, anyway.

It is more about submission. Men need to feel their woman has completely submitted to their masculinity. A woman must fully submit to a man and look up to him for strength, direction and guidance. This has become a rare dynamic with modern western women as they feel a sense of purpose outside of their relationship, through work, socialization, and being independent consumers.

It is well documented that a woman must be more invested in the relationship, expressed through this submission. In that submission, men feel dominance or ownership. Men will not fully love unless there is submission. Women will not fully love unless they submit to his masculine power and guidance.

Quote: (04-19-2016 07:17 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

Are love and ownership inseparable when it comes to male love towards a woman?

I've noticed that women are able to love a man without feeling that they own him. They might want to make him "their own" but it's far from a deal breaker if he's not which explains why they're more comfortable with moving on quickly.

Never met a guy however, who loves a woman without feeling a complete sense of ownership and entitlement towards her.

I believe if i can find that perfect balance of being able to separate love and ownership, my relationship game/aloof attitude would triple.

Do any of you guys have experience with this?

If you see something enough… It probably comes down to biology at some level or another. Maybe someone with knowledge in this field can chime in.

I think the first thing one would need to do is get past the notion of being able to own/control someone. IMO, when one's self confidence is fully on board this isn't a think that one thinks about or struggles with.

^ that sounds like typical "advice" from a wimminz' magazine.

__________

I've loved several women in my life. I cannot love a woman who I do not feel is completely mine. Who loves me and is faithful and loyal to me. Yes that means I own her in a sense. If a woman truly loves you and trusts you she will submit to you and it will feel amazing to her. The thing is she has to feel safe enough and trust you enough to completely let go. Be that man and she submits happily. In order do this you have to be completely open yourself and expose your own vulnerabilities to her. As long as you are still keeping insecurities and holding yourself back she won't be able to let go either. If you are weak and insecure you can only ultimately connect with people just as weak and insecure as you are.

One sided love is unhealthy and isn't worth it. If you love her but she doesn't love you back then what the fuck is wrong with you? Start loving yourself and up your standards. It says a lot of really negative things about you, your emotional immaturity, and your pitiful self image. If shes crazy in love with you but you aren't feeling it that doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. Maybe its nice fucking her sometimes but the emotions and expectations spoil the fun. Everytime I had a chick who was so into me but I wasn't feeling myself it was painful and I finally cut it off.

I'm going through this process right now with my current girl. She has some insecurity and is afraid to let go. But slowly the layers peel away and she has become mine completely. Its scary for her because she doesn't want to get hurt, but as she comes into the fold she feels bliss. In my embrace she can be a woman free.

Quote: (04-19-2016 09:51 PM)Dantes Wrote:  

It is more about submission. Men need to feel their woman has completely submitted to their masculinity. A woman must fully submit to a man and look up to him for strength, direction and guidance. This has become a rare dynamic with modern western women as they feel a sense of purpose outside of their relationship, through work, socialization, and being independent consumers.

It is well documented that a woman must be more invested in the relationship, expressed through this submission. In that submission, men feel dominance or ownership. Men will not fully love unless there is submission. Women will not fully love unless they submit to his masculine power and guidance.

Pretty much this.

Furthermore, a woman who has leverage over a man will grow to resent that man ultimately. The current cultural/legal environment (false accusations, divorce/child support rape, having babies at 40, etc) in places like the US encourages women to gain leverage over men and to abuse it.

In counties where the cultural/legal environments are more sane, the leverage between sexes is far more fair and in alignment with natural/preferable biologically pair-bonding objectives. In that, strong male providers (successful/accomplished men) are given access to young fertile women (18-24 years old). The age difference isn't frowned upon nor are sole-providers forced to live in perpetual fear of being deprived of their hard earned resources. Ultimately, a successful man gets a young woman and the woman gets provisioning as long as she stays committed to the man.

In the bizarre US however, a woman gets provisioning even after breaking her commitment to the man. The current US legal system especially makes it extremely financially risky to marry and knock-up a young woman with little/no job prospects; biologically the best candidates to have children with. The current system actually forces men to marry older/less fertile career women to somewhat financially protect themselves; women who are at least biologically speaking, are horrible candidates to breed children with.

In the US, a woman can't lose. Stay in the relationship and act like a cunt? She gets paid. Blow up the marriage and take the kids? She gets paid.

If she can't lose, she can't truly submit to a man.

If she can't submit, you lose.

Quote: (04-19-2016 11:52 PM)Requiem Wrote:  

^ that sounds like typical "advice" from a wimminz' magazine.

On one hand yeah, on the other hand what I've noticed is that it's usually chumps who are the most possessive; likely due to feeling that they're too beta to "ever find another woman" if they lose her.

Sure a manly man is going to demand self respect and dumb a bitch who cheats on them, but my thought is that manly guys tend to be less possessive than beta guys because they have an abundance mindset, and know there are thousands of other women out there, and have other goals and priorities in life other than "marriage and kids" so losing a woman isn't like losing an arm or leg to them.

These beta guys are also the type of guys who buy into the notion that they're "entitled" to sex or a relationship because they're so "nice" or because they bought a girl dinner.

My woman calls me "master" - we're both Christians who follow the example set for us in the book of Ephesians but beyond that, she loves to submit and is willing to do whatever I say because it turns her on.

All women were created to act this way, the ones that don't have been manipulated by the corporate feminized media.

So the feeling of ownership is natural for a male and submission is natural for females

Quote: (04-20-2016 02:17 AM)EDantes Wrote:  

Quote: (04-19-2016 11:52 PM)Requiem Wrote:  

^ that sounds like typical "advice" from a wimminz' magazine.

On one hand yeah, on the other hand what I've noticed is that it's usually chumps who are the most possessive; likely due to feeling that they're too beta to "ever find another woman" if they lose her.

Sure a manly man is going to demand self respect and dumb a bitch who cheats on them, but my thought is that manly guys tend to be less possessive than beta guys because they have an abundance mindset, and know there are thousands of other women out there, and have other goals and priorities in life other than "marriage and kids" so losing a woman isn't like losing an arm or leg to them.

These beta guys are also the type of guys who buy into the notion that they're "entitled" to sex or a relationship because they're so "nice" or because they bought a girl dinner.

Well, then we need to first establish what kind of relationship we're talking about. I thought it was clear since AtD was asking about love but now you're talking about the player lifestyle. Sure you can always find another woman, but if you actually love someone, then you don't want to. Alphas can love too. And if you're in a loving relationship, the situation is by definition very different from when you just see her as a fun temporary companion that you can wet your dick with. You do become vulnerable because you opened yourself up emotionally enough to fall in love with her. And in order to go through with that completely, you do need a feeling of ownership otherwise there's too much uncertainty. The beta thing in my opinion is to not allow for the vulnerability to emerge in the first place because one is afraid to get hurt. The possessive betas who're obsessively controlling are not acting out of love but out of desperation. If you open yourself emotionally enough to actually love a woman who doesn't submit to you, then you're in for a shitty surprise. So it's not really that "owning" a woman is about constantly checking her phone etc., but being the kind of man she naturally wants to submit to.
Yet you can't just hope for her to be flawless in every way and always act accordingly. So there are still recurrent situations where you need to be strict with her. Which you wouldn't be doing with a woman you don't love since it's less of a hassle to just replace her once her behavior becomes too unpleasant. And if she is the right woman to love, for which her submission is a necessity, then she will like you for correcting her behavior. It shows you care. - Not in the beta touchy-feely kind of way but in the alpha patriarchal family-managing kind of way. And in such a relationship - to come back to AtD's question - yes, you do own her. Although I hope it's clear now, in which way. We're not talking about outright enslavement, although that can be a voluntary aspect of it if both partners prefer it this way.

Quote: (04-20-2016 02:31 PM)eskimobobseal Wrote:  

My woman calls me "master"

I get "King" from mine (seriously)

:crown:

Quote: (04-19-2016 07:17 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

Are love and ownership inseparable when it comes to male love towards a woman?

I've noticed that women are able to love a man without feeling that they own him. They might want to make him "their own" but it's far from a deal breaker if he's not which explains why they're more comfortable with moving on quickly.

Never met a guy however, who loves a woman without feeling a complete sense of ownership and entitlement towards her.

I believe if i can find that perfect balance of being able to separate love and ownership, my relationship game/aloof attitude would triple.

Do any of you guys have experience with this?

The mistake you are making is to develop feelings of love for her. That's up to to the female to base the relationship on feelings. Your job is to rationally assess the relationship and see if it's still worth your while or if there are better options out there. Or better still, see other women as well.

That's how you separate love and ownership.

Delete

This thread has made me refelect a bit on myself and where I currently stand in regards to relationships with women. Years and years ago I was a total sucker and would fall for a pretty face and kind words very easily. Needless to say I found myself getting burned a lot. Recently I went through a phase where I was afraid I have killed and buried that part of me so deep that I was almost incapable of growing attached to a woman again - now I see I have evolved as a man and will only allow myself to love a woman who is worthy enough of my investment and commitment. Where before emotion controlled me, now I control emotion. This has been a good realization.

Quote: (04-20-2016 08:22 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

This thread has made me refelect a bit on myself and where I currently stand in regards to relationships with women. Years and years ago I was a total sucker and would fall for a pretty face and kind words very easily. Needless to say I found myself getting burned a lot. Recently I went through a phase where I was afraid I have killed and buried that part of me so deep that I was almost incapable of growing attached to a woman again - now I see I have evolved as a man and will only allow myself to love a woman who is worthy enough of my investment and commitment. Where before emotion controlled me, now I control emotion. This has been a good realization.

Great.

But isn't love by definition a form of "letting go"?

I don't agree with some of the posters on here that think developing feelings for a girl is wrong. Depends on our goals. My goal is not to become some Alpha, Mack, Player or Pimp. It does not suit my personality or life goals.

True love is one of my highest aspirations in life. Even the 'Dark Triad" Heartiste wrote this about love ...

What is unique about love is that it alone among all the human desires defines by its absence the utterly meaningless life. With love, the poor person can feel rich as if the struggles of his survival were minor inconveniences. With love, the old person forgets his age. With love, the young person sheds his angst. A man can amass a kingdom’s fortune and an emperor’s power but without love his worldly successes stand like hollow totems to unhappiness. What good is anything if it doesn’t ultimately reach a conclusion in love? The wealthy businessman who spends all his hours in his office and wastes his years whistling past the grave being too busy for love is a loser no less than the unloved degenerate street bum.

So my question is how can do you control emotion without being controlled while at the same time being capable of love?

"Platonic Love" has been idealized at various periods in the West.

But I don't think that you referring to spiritual abstractions or philosophical love, but rather your feeling toward a woman to whom you are giving the bone.

It's natural. I find that the feeling for me increases during sex (ie: "whose pussy is it"?) but I more or less ice those feelings outside of the bedroom. It helps me to stay aware of what is actually going on in the relationship rather than deluding myself into thinking that she is "mine" and won't cheat or leave. It keeps me from getting lazy in mid-to-late relationship game. It also helps me to express my alphaness better, as I don't end up treating her like a bang-maid who I can look to for comfort or to solve my problems because she's "mine". In essence, it keeps me in the pocket and it encourages me to avoid non-adult behavior that I could theoretically indulge in due to being too comfortable. It also encourages me to flirt outside of the relationship, which if done well strengthens the relationship.

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I don't agree with some of the posters on here that think developing feelings for a girl is wrong. Depends on our goals. My goal is not to become some Alpha, Mack, Player or Pimp. It does not suit my personality or life goals.

True love is one of my highest aspirations in life. Even the 'Dark Triad" Heartiste wrote this about love ...

I would look into the spiritual philosophy of Platonic love. I say this not to recommend anything that many men here would reflexively deride when encountered, but to instead recommend a path to where you can read some European spiritual philosophy on love as a means of not relying on pure instinct and emotion.

I have my doubts that true love can exist when it is anchored to sex.

If you really want "True Love", then it will exist both without and with sex.

I'm also not suggesting celibacy. Only the possibility of a different approach to your experience of love.

I'm not an expert in any of this. This is only a casual suggestion.

Check out The Art of Loving by Erich Fromm, Anabis. It's been a while since I last read it so I'm a bit hazy on the details, but he pretty much answers your question and some.

Quote: (04-20-2016 09:28 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

...
I have my doubts that true love can exist when it is anchored to sex.

If you really want "True Love", then it will exist both without and with sex. ...

You can love a sexless woman unconditionally and be celibate as such but that doesn't mean your balls wont turn blue.

You could rationalise that joy the love brings you trumps the joy you'd have while rooting another person, but love does not simply erase all other biological desires.

As for the OP, monogamous relationships are by definition ownerships of each other. Again, anyone looking to somehow cheat their biological urge to dominate their partner's reproductive organs is pushing the psychological shit uphill. Not to say it's impossible but it's certainly unnatural.

Quote: (04-20-2016 05:42 PM)Guitarman Wrote:  

The mistake you are making is to develop feelings of love for her.

That is a depressing outlook.