Quote: (10-28-2015 10:38 AM)Parzival Wrote:  

So Texas could take all the refugees alone?

They would have to get past the Mexicans first.

As with everything else - the devil lies in the detail. I posted it somewhere else, but this fits:

Quote:Quote:

The gruesome situation in the United States:
40% of the people there make less than $20,000 per year.
Keep in mind that most of that money goes to the landlord, the utilities, health care (if they have any), debt service and other monthly payments they can't avoid.
They'll only have a few hundred bucks per month to spend, which comes down to 5 to 10 dollars a day.
This is how poverty is hidden and the mirage of 'affluence' is maintained under Capitalism: nominally some or even a fair bit of money for wages, but then sucking it all up with Usury, rents, taxation, and high prices of their Transnational Cartels, leaving no real purchasing power with the common man.
51% of the working populace is making less than $30,000 per year.
And this in an age that male participation in the labor market has never been lower in US history. Even the Great Depression saw a better job market for men than today.
Already, wages in real terms are 10% lower than in 1973. And that is according to the official numbers.
80% of Americans are living pay check to pay check and have no or almost no assets at all.
It is clear that the stunning demise of American hegemony is reflected in the destruction of its once thriving middle and even working class.
And still people desperately cling to the notion of 'normality'.
And still, matters will get even much, much worse in the years ahead.
Only the end of Wall Street can turn things around, but the truth is that for the time being people are not at all ready to call a spade a spade and admit that they have been conned so badly.

http://investmentwatchblog.com/40-percen...overished/



http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/10/g...-year.html

Goodbye Middle Class, welcome Dickensian economy. What people forget in capitalism is that it has to exist in a balance between workers forming unions and agitating for better living wages, closed borders, tariffs etc. and the capital owners who have the urge to live as emperors over shoeless factory workers. The US 1940s to 60s wasn't as successful as that "because Europe and Asia were destroyed". No - it was successful due to limited immigration, high tax structure on high income, high corporate taxes, high tariffs on imports, strong unions and high wages even for menial workers.

While I can personally think of even better systems without usury and almost zero income taxes the reason for the US success were those factors - aside from the endemic ones of high work ethic, motivation etc - that mentality hasn't changed that much. The system just sucks out everyone dry on their way to a Dickensian economy.



Those comparisons you see of median income, even of purchasing power means little. I have lived in many of those places and can tell you the difference in detail:

When making less money, then you live way better in socialist Europe. Yes - there are stupid hot-spots like immigrant-swarmed hellholes and overpriced real estate in the UK or Sweden. But most other places are fine. Someone making 12.000$ in Poland has a better lifestyle than someone making 45.000$ in the US (unless you live like a monk or Manosphere blogger who saves most cash - heh). If you combine it with potential healthcare costs in the future, then it becomes even more gruesome.

The US has still some major advantages over Europe. IF you are successful, have a good business or rise in the corporate world, or have even a competitive job like a good pharma rep, then you will make 4-20 times as much money than in the EU. So essentially the US is still a place where being in the top 5% of the income spectrum lets you live much better than their equivalent in Europe.

However for the bottom 80% the experience is getting worse by the day, mostly due to a rip-off health care system, rising prices and massively falling incomes. The EU is beset with the same problems, but there are many mitigating circumstances like cheaper real estate (in many parts of the country - not everywhere and not where immigration is booming), cheap or free high quality education, free or cheap university studies (best STEM colleges are yours if you can pass the tests), free basic healthcare (depending on country with varying quality, but even private offers are much cheaper, because the single-payer system squeezes their prices - something like that would work in the US too, but they got an even worse system now with Obamacare).

Both systems - US and EU ones are faulty, median income and purchasing power as given here are not guidelines of the living standards. Something as stupid as cheap rents in some European countries already destroys the arguments.

A better number is to find out the social mobility in each country:



And even those statistics don't tell the full picture.

Quality of life is better in Europe. Also Australia and Canada beat the US comfortably.

inequality-adjunted human development index.. america barely makes it to the top 30.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...justed_HDI

Both germany and sweden are far above the US in median quality of life... no comparison.

Quote: (01-16-2016 06:58 PM)TigerTim Wrote:  

Quality of life is better in Europe. Also Australia and Canada beat the US comfortably.

inequality-adjunted human development index.. america barely makes it to the top 30.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...justed_HDI

Both germany and sweden are far above the US in median quality of life... no comparison.

HDI seems very flawed if you're measuring objective quality of life. These indices (like the happiest people index) just takes a few metrics and combines it to make a list. It doesn't mean quality of life is necessarily better there are a lot more non quantitative factors that go into that.

No way is Poland's quality of life as good as the U.S. Even if you take the girls into consideration. Let's be serious here, the U.S. has a lot of flaws but no way is this true.

Estonia better than Japan? No.

Ukraine and Mexico over Thailand? No.

Iceland at #7? No. They had one of the worst financial disasters in
recent history.

Quote: (01-16-2016 07:12 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

Quote: (01-16-2016 06:58 PM)TigerTim Wrote:  

Quality of life is better in Europe. Also Australia and Canada beat the US comfortably.

inequality-adjunted human development index.. america barely makes it to the top 30.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...justed_HDI

Both germany and sweden are far above the US in median quality of life... no comparison.

HDI seems very flawed if you're measuring objective quality of life. These indices (like the happiest people index) just takes a few metrics and combines it to make a list. It doesn't mean quality of life is necessarily better there are a lot more non quantitative factors that go into that.

No way is Poland's quality of life as good as the U.S. Even if you take the girls into consideration. Let's be serious here, the U.S. has a lot of flaws but no way is this true.

Estonia better than Japan? No.

Ukraine and Mexico over Thailand? No.

Iceland at #7? No. They had one of the worst financial disasters in
recent history.

Maybe this list makes more sense?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...ment_Index

It doesnt not include the adjustment from inequality...


and I rather live in estonia than in japan... working 7 hours a day vs working 12 hours a day..

Estonia is more human friendly.. better cities to walk, in japan tons of traffic jams and too over saturated with people, plus estonian women make japanese women look bad...

Quote: (10-30-2015 03:28 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  



And even those statistics don't tell the full picture.

UK is far more like the US than Its like the rest of europe. Guess being part-french (culturally wise) makes wonders in a country like Canada, otherwise it would be just like a smaller (in terms of population) version of the US.

European countries (except the UK) are far more collective thinking and have as an ultimate goal the enrichment and progress of the society as a whole not of the individual(like the US/UK). In some countries like spain, italy, greece or Russia it might not work due to corruption and historial drawbacks (like communism), however the main goal of the people isnt much different than in the most succesful european countries like Norway, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Austria, Switzerland or Finland. Its only the problem that the former nations beside their institutional problems notoreously lack of a strict working culture which leads to productivism and encourages the election and commitement of serious polititians. on the other hand US and UK have a productive working-culture but their social dynamics are completely different and embrace the individualism/elitism which widens the socioeconomic gap between the rich and the poor.

Quote: (10-27-2015 07:53 PM)Blackhawk Wrote:  

Ryan McMaken claims that if Sweden and Germany became US states, they would be among the most poorest states.

"Since Sweden is held up as a sort of promised land by American socialists, let's compare it first. We find that, if it were to join the US as a state, Sweden would be poorer than all but 12 states, with a median income of $27,167.

Median residents in states like Colorado ($35,830), Massachusetts ($37,626), Virginia ($39,291), Washington ($36,343), and Utah ($36,036) have considerably higher incomes than Sweden.

With the exception of Luxembourg ($38,502), Norway ($35,528), and Switzerland ($35,083), all countries shown would fail to rank as high-income states were they to become part of the United States. In fact, most would fare worse than Mississippi, the poorest state.

For example, Mississippi has a higher median income ($23,017) than 18 countries measured here. The Czech Republic, Estonia, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Korea, Poland, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain, and the United Kingdom all have median income levels below $23,000 and are thus below every single US state. Not surprisingly, the poorest OECD members (Chile, Mexico, and Turkey) have median incomes far below Mississippi." (source)

The red line is the US median. To the right are the 50 US states. To the left are the OCED countries.



And here it they are adjusted for purchasing power.

Just adjusted the image sizes so I don't have to scroll to read the damn post.

US Stock Market lost trillions in the last week.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-16...good-shape

How do you view your country relative to others?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-16...-see-world

While median income in Germany might not be as high as in some US states, lots of stuff actually is a lot cheaper here than in the US. For example, groceries and personal hygiene stuff from the drugstore is a lot cheaper than in the US, really A LOT. We don't pay 8 dollars for a frozen pizza here, or 2 dollars for a small cup of fruit yoghurt, but we pay 1/3 of these prices. Also a plate of simple pasta at an Italian restaurant will not be 18$ here like in the US but only half, and we don't tip 25% but maximum 10%. Food and drugstore stuff is probably by far the cheapest in Germany when set in relation to income, of any country worldwide.

Plus rents are nowhere in the ridiculous spheres of most thriving US cities. Even apartment rents in the most expensive cities of Germany, like Munich or Frankfurt, look dirt-cheap in comparison to rents in San Francisco/Bay Area, NYC or Seattle and many more.

Also we Germans (and probably many Europeans) have to save less money for life events such as unemployment, serious health problems, or for our pension/retiring when growing old, because all of this is covered for by the state social securities. And while health insurance might be included in many jobs in the US as well, I think the difference is what the health insurances actually cover and pay in the end. While German health insurance covers pretty much anything, even complicated stuff, except for certain dental treatments that exceed the necessary minimum standard, I've heard stuff about the US like ophthalmologists and dentists not being included in many health plans at all, or you have to cover up to 1,000$ doctor's cost a year by yourself first before the health plan kicks in and pays for anything, also I've heard about health insurances refusing very costly treatments and thus basically letting people die from it.

Also laws are more protecting here. For example in Germany, you don't have to worry about losing your job so much. Should you fall sick, you would be entitled to as much as 6 weeks of fully paid sick leave. After that, up to one year "sick leave money" from state insurance kicks in, which is 60% of your salary. And even after that, you would be entitled to one more full year of unenmployment money which is 60% of your former net salary as well. And this is not some luxury plan that only few Germans have, it is what everybody is entitled to by law, no matter which age or job or qualification and no matter which company you're working at. You can fall here, but you don't fall fast, and you don't fall hard (the story can be completely different for the self-employed/freelancers, but that is a path that not so many choose here for a reason).

Universities in Germany are completely free and German parents don't have to earn to put aside a six-figured number for the education of their kids, and much more.

So while actual net income in Germany might actually seem a little low in comparison to other countries like the US, the point is you can actually live very well here with the money you make, and I am sure the quality of life and level of social security is in many ways better here than in the US when seen from a financial point of view purely.

Thank you Golden Hinde.

Myopia is something that doesn't seem to be covered by our healthcare here at all.

WIA

Quote: (01-19-2016 04:14 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Thank you Golden Hinde.

Myopia is something that doesn't seem to be covered by our healthcare here at all.

WIA

Not to worry the permanent solution of eliminating that entirely from our genepool will be used soon:

https://www.neb.com/tools-and-resources/...ar-biology

Quote: (01-19-2016 04:09 PM)goldenhinde Wrote:  

While median income in Germany might not be as high as in some US states, lots of stuff actually is a lot cheaper here than in the US. For example, groceries and personal hygiene stuff from the drugstore is a lot cheaper than in the US, really A LOT. We don't pay 8 dollars for a frozen pizza here, or 2 dollars for a small cup of fruit yoghurt, but we pay 1/3 of these prices. Also a plate of simple pasta at an Italian restaurant will not be 18$ here like in the US but only half, and we don't tip 25% but maximum 10%. Food and drugstore stuff is probably by far the cheapest in Germany when set in relation to income, of any country worldwide.

The prices of groceries have sky rocketed in the past few years here. Almost doubled on a lot of basic things like, milk, eggs, cheese, bread.

The eating out has risen now because of all the fatasses... I mean foodies that eat out all the time and think they are food connoisuers mowing down the soooo delicious and amazing basic bitch chicken Alfredo bowl with unlimited garlic butter breadsticks from Olive Garden.

And

I'm pretty sure every one knows that Europe has much better safety net but everyone also knows Europe is different than America. It has a different spirit that drives it which is why they can't be compared.

@golden hinde

Your def right about rental costs in US. (Mostly due to poor zoning, average home size is probably twice as large in the USA.)

Prices are lower then what you mentioned though. A yogurt is like .50 to $1. Frozen Pizza maybe $5. Simple plate of pasta $12-15. We tip 15 to 20%.

We also have umployment insurance for 6 months. Most companies have insurance for any sick leave as well. Theres also disabilty in the usa which could pay this as well.

The college cost here is high but there are many reasons for that, its a completely different thing. The loan program has a lot to do with it. States do give money to state schools for residents of that state.

Dental costs are not included in health plans. However you wont need dental insurance, ive been without it my whole life. Its quite cheap to do dental work.

The one thing i would bring up about the USA is the reliance on the car. This is huge difference between us and europe. Car costs here at a very minimum are 300 a month. (New car, and 99 percent of the time higher)

The USA has quite a social safety net actually, you wont see tv talking about that often, but there are a tons of programs here already.

This is per capita.By total GDP some US states are richer than many world largest economies.

Quote:Quote:

Also laws are more protecting here. For example in Germany, you don't have to worry about losing your job so much. Should you fall sick, you would be entitled to as much as 6 weeks of fully paid sick leave. After that, up to one year "sick leave money" from state insurance kicks in, which is 60% of your salary. And even after that, you would be entitled to one more full year of unenmployment money which is 60% of your former net salary as well. And this is not some luxury plan that only few Germans have, it is what everybody is entitled to by law, no matter which age or job or qualification and no matter which company you're working at. You can fall here, but you don't fall fast, and you don't fall hard (the story can be completely different for the self-employed/freelancers, but that is a path that not so many choose here for a reason).

So if jobs give such great benefits and quality of life is so high, why does no one have kids? In the USA most couples cannot afford children or a house.

Quote: (01-19-2016 04:09 PM)goldenhinde Wrote:  

Also we Germans (and probably many Europeans) have to save less money for life events such as unemployment, serious health problems, or for our pension/retiring when growing old, because all of this is covered for by the state social securities.

Paid for by you, from the taxes you've paid, and the taxes of others. You're paying for it just like Americans pay for it- except in Germany the state takes all of the money and decides what to do with it. In the U.S., it's more up to you to make the right decisions.

Quote:Quote:

And this is not some luxury plan that only few Germans have, it is what everybody is entitled to by law, no matter which age or job or qualification and no matter which company you're working at.

No matter what value you provide to society you get the spoils- doesn't sound great to me. Sounds pretty shitty for the people that work hard and succeed.

Quote:Quote:

You can fall here, but you don't fall fast, and you don't fall hard

Because the other guy that didn't fall is forced to pay your way when you fall.

Quote:Quote:

Universities in Germany are completely free

Again, it's not free at all, it's being paid for it out of everyones income, so even if you choose not to go you are still paying for your neighbors kid to go. And you have no choice in the matter.

Nothing is "free" in Germany - everyone is having money taken from their income to pay for these things, and you get to pay for other peoples problems and poor choices. I don't get how anyone can see this as a good system.

Quote: (01-20-2016 02:58 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

Quote: (01-19-2016 04:09 PM)goldenhinde Wrote:  

Also we Germans (and probably many Europeans) have to save less money for life events such as unemployment, serious health problems, or for our pension/retiring when growing old, because all of this is covered for by the state social securities.

Paid for by you, from the taxes you've paid, and the taxes of others. You're paying for it just like Americans pay for it- except in Germany the state takes all of the money and decides what to do with it. In the U.S., it's more up to you to make the right decisions.

Quote:Quote:

And this is not some luxury plan that only few Germans have, it is what everybody is entitled to by law, no matter which age or job or qualification and no matter which company you're working at.

No matter what value you provide to society you get the spoils- doesn't sound great to me. Sounds pretty shitty for the people that work hard and succeed.

Quote:Quote:

You can fall here, but you don't fall fast, and you don't fall hard

Because the other guy that didn't fall is forced to pay your way when you fall.

Quote:Quote:

Universities in Germany are completely free

Again, it's not free at all, it's being paid for it out of everyones income, so even if you choose not to go you are still paying for your neighbors kid to go. And you have no choice in the matter.

Nothing is "free" in Germany - everyone is having money taken from their income to pay for these things, and you get to pay for other peoples problems and poor choices. I don't get how anyone can see this as a good system.

This guy pretty much nailed it.

Reporting live from Sweden the land of the metaphorically free and the home of the allahuakbar.

Quote:Quote:

Nothing is "free" in Germany - everyone is having money taken from their income to pay for these things, and you get to pay for other peoples problems and poor choices. I don't get how anyone can see this as a good system.

Saying you don't understand something as economically simple as a welfare system doesn't exactly give credence to your argument.

The notion that poverty and sickness, the two most costly burdens on any state, are only results from poor choices even further erodes this.

Quote: (01-20-2016 05:54 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

Quote:Quote:

Nothing is "free" in Germany - everyone is having money taken from their income to pay for these things, and you get to pay for other peoples problems and poor choices. I don't get how anyone can see this as a good system.

Saying you don't understand something as economically simple as a welfare system doesn't exactly give credence to your argument.

Vicious, we both come from countries with very well developed welfare systems. Based on my knowledge of the Austrian system, he's basically right with his statement. Does Sweden have a different one, for which this simple explanation would be wrong?

Quote:Quote:

The notion that poverty and sickness, the two most costly burdens on any state, are only results from poor choices even further erodes this.

Not only, but more often than not.
Growing up in a working class environment I had ample opportunity to observe people of this demography myself.

Fun Fact: The German welfare state (starting with health insurance and accident insurance) was actually begun by a (rather pragmatic) "conservative" in the 19th century: Otto von Bismarck.

I've had this discussion with family who continue to claim that Americans are poorer because they have to pay college and health insurance. I actually looked up the numbers at what an average family spends in the US and it was no more than 800-1000 USD I think for a family of four, which certainly isn't much more than a medium-high income family would pay in referred tax.

The whole discussion is usually based on ignorance. Purchasing Power Parity is certainly higher in the US, particularly in some of the Northern states, say Minnesota. We're talking a good 25-30% higher purchasing power for a middle class family and yes, still higher purchasing power after saving for college and health insurance. American health system by the way is by far the best in the world measured on survival rates for various illnesses.

I also have family who lived in the US as upper-middle class and they also say the middle class definitely has it better in the US. Huge houses, two or three cars, lots of electronics and so on. Many middle class Euro people live in cramped old apartments or small houses with one car or no car.

There's absolutely no doubt for me the middle class in the US has had the highest standard of living of all middle classes in the world. Don't know if that is still the case. Anyway Euro's are usually misinformed as are Americans about Europe. Fact is that if you're a working middle class family with two parents with a job, then you simply have it a lot better materially in America traditionally, that's not subjective, it's fact.

Quote: (01-20-2016 06:28 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Fun Fact: The German welfare state (starting with health insurance and accident insurance) was actually begun by a (rather pragmatic) "conservative" in the 19th century: Otto von Bismarck.

It was to keep the socialists out of the game. At that time they were quite strong.

If the gap between rich and poor is to big crime rates may go up as the poor people have nothing to lose.

I think to look at the average age people die may be a good indicator for richness of a country.

There was a statistic lately where the USA was the only country where the life expectancy of white guys between the ages of 40 and 50 was declining.

Quote: (01-20-2016 05:54 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

Quote:Quote:

Nothing is "free" in Germany - everyone is having money taken from their income to pay for these things, and you get to pay for other peoples problems and poor choices. I don't get how anyone can see this as a good system.

Saying you don't understand something as economically simple as a welfare system doesn't exactly give credence to your argument.

The notion that poverty and sickness, the two most costly burdens on any state, are only results from poor choices even further erodes this.

Where did you get the impression that I didn't understand welfare systems? I stated I don't get how anyone can see them as good systems.

Poverty and sickness (especially poverty) are very often the result of poor choices. Society continually pays for the poor decisions, enabling the whole thing to continue without consequence.

The mere existence of state welfare has an influence on the decisions people make. It's not just simply a reaction to events as you imply, it's a cause of them as well.

Just one example of the devastating effect welfare programs can have on a society- Single motherhood/children born out of wedlock. This is one the biggest, if not the biggest contributor to future criminality, and it's only financially viable largely due to the state's welfare programs for women. If women knew having a child outside of marriage carried deep consequences and no state help then they would make better decisions- leading to a better life for themselves, a better life for the child, reduced crime, and no need for a large welfare state.

A large welfare state enables and encourages, consciously or not, the poor decisions of the people. And we all pay for it, financially and otherwise.

Quote: (01-20-2016 07:37 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

Poverty and sickness (especially poverty) are very often the result of poor choices. Society continually pays for the poor decisions, enabling the whole thing to continue without consequence.

The mere existence of state welfare has an influence on the decisions people make. It's not just simply a reaction to events as you imply, it's a cause of them as well.

Just one example of the devastating effect welfare programs can have on a society- Single motherhood/children born out of wedlock. This is one the biggest, if not the biggest contributor to future criminality, and it's only financially viable largely due to the state's welfare programs for women. If women knew having a child outside of marriage carried deep consequences and no state help then they would make better decisions- leading to a better life for themselves, a better life for the child, reduced crime, and no need for a large welfare state.

I dislike debating examples because they make such straw men eventually but this particular example is leaving me scratching my head. The amount of single mothers in the US are 4/10. The equivalent in the Nordic countries and Germany is 2/10 (and that's single parent not just single mothers). So lack of an extensive welfare program in the US is obviously not discouraging American women.

The European welfare states work because its people believe in them. It doesn't work in many SA countries because they are simple lip service paid by a corrupt ruling class. In both examples the differences are cultural, not societal. The examples of this are legion when starting to compare everything from crime rates to QoL over the western European countries to NA/SA.

Quote: (01-20-2016 04:00 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

Quote: (01-20-2016 07:37 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

Poverty and sickness (especially poverty) are very often the result of poor choices. Society continually pays for the poor decisions, enabling the whole thing to continue without consequence.

The mere existence of state welfare has an influence on the decisions people make. It's not just simply a reaction to events as you imply, it's a cause of them as well.

Just one example of the devastating effect welfare programs can have on a society- Single motherhood/children born out of wedlock. This is one the biggest, if not the biggest contributor to future criminality, and it's only financially viable largely due to the state's welfare programs for women. If women knew having a child outside of marriage carried deep consequences and no state help then they would make better decisions- leading to a better life for themselves, a better life for the child, reduced crime, and no need for a large welfare state.

I dislike debating examples because they make such straw men eventually but this particular example is leaving me scratching my head. The amount of single mothers in the US are 4/10. The equivalent in the Nordic countries and Germany is 2/10 (and that's single parent not just single mothers). So lack of an extensive welfare program in the US is obviously not discouraging American women.

The European welfare states work because its people believe in them. It doesn't work in many SA countries because they are simple lip service paid by a corrupt ruling class. In both examples the differences are cultural, not societal. The examples of this are legion when starting to compare everything from crime rates to QoL over the western European countries to NA/SA.

The amount of single mothers in the USA is easily reduced if you just look at White data only.