[Amour Fou]

(01-28-2012 10:25 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(01-28-2012 10:23 PM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

Geez...

I don't have the time now for a thorough reply, but I have to say that I could relate to nearly all of the list, save maybe a couple of points.

(I don't mind "awsome" and I guess I don't mind smiles).

I've been living in US soil for around 5 1/2 months now, and what always striked me was the way all the small freedoms that I took for granted back home are always "a big issue" around here. Simply going to the beach with friends, a couple of beers and a guitar for a good time is infringing something like 10 laws with the threat of being "prosecuted". Complete hysteria.

I had the impression it was a society completely ruled by threats and fear. Respect and authority are "earned" through fear.

It makes no sense at all.

The only "safe" place seems to be home, in front of the TV screen, in unconscious passive submissive slumber.

And this mentality seems to be spread out through all the various institutions of society. (I took part for a while in an university. I admit I dropped out because it started getting to me in a bad way, and I have a commitment to doing the best I can with my time).

This does not mean, however, I haven't met amazing people here. It also doesn't mean that I don't appreciate many of the cultural elements over here as well.

But at the same time, a good number of Americans won't hessitate to break these rules.

I just added a small line to my post above:

Quote:

Again... what happened to what was earned and fought by The Beats? The Hippies? Coorporativism and Religious hysteria took'em all over?

[InternationPlayboy]

(01-28-2012 10:24 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(01-28-2012 10:05 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(01-28-2012 10:00 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(01-28-2012 09:40 PM)mofo Wrote:  

In my opinion the US is the best place to go from rags to riches. If anybody thinks differently than please tell me where it is easier to go from zero to hero in terms of money.

Not anymore my friend. This according to the Brookings Institute

ECONOMIC MOBILITY OF FAMILIES ACROSS
GENERATIONS IS LOWER IN THE UNITED STATES
THAN IN MANY OTHER COUNTRIES
While Americans have an optimistic faith in the ability of individuals to
get ahead within a lifetime or from one generation to the next, there
is growing evidence of less intergenerational economic mobility
in the United States than in many other rich industrialized countries,
at least according to the relative mobility measures commonly used
in economic research.
The earnings of American men are more closely tied to the earnings of their fathers than are those of men in other countries. Both the United States and the United Kingdom stand out as having higher associations between fathers’and sons’ earnings—and thereforeless economic mobility—than do seven other industrialized countries, according to a comprehensive review by Corak. After reviewing dozens of studies of the earnings relationship between fathers and sons in the United States and other countries, and adjusting the statistics for comparability to the extent possible, Corak ranked the ninecountries in the order shown by
the bars in Figure 2.
• Low-mobility countries. In the United States and the
United Kingdom, about half (50 percent) of parental earnings advantages are passed onto sons. If trends hold consistent, it would
take an average of six generations for family economic advantage
to disappear in the United Statesand the United Kingdom.
• Mid-range countries. France, Germany, and Sweden were in
the mid-range of mobility measures for these nine countries.
• High-mobility countries. Paternal earnings had the least
effect on sons’ earnings in Canada, Norway, Finland, and Denmark, where less than 20 percent of income advantages are passed onto children. The implication of these statistics is that in these countries it would take three,
not six, generations, to essentially cancel out the effects of being
born into a wealthy family.
Recent studies suggest that Italy may be in the same “low-mobility” range as the United States and the United Kingdom, while both Spain and Australia join the list of countries with higher rates of mobility than
the United States.

Yeah, but when you say that, "The earnings of American men are more closely tied to the earnings of their fathers than are those of men in other countries." Is that really a big deal if the average dad is making $52k a year? Thos high mobility countries in scandinavia get taxed out the ass and if you've read a lot of info on the forum, it seems to be a very dull places to live.

Im not trying to say that America isnt full of financial opportunities. Only that it is way less relative to other countries NOW compared to 20 or 30 yrs ago. And that it is a myth that the US is number one with regard to economic mobility.

IN CONCLUSION (not according to me but the Brookings Institute)

The findings from cross-country research challenge the traditional view of the United States as a land with more mobility and opportunity than other countries. While cross-country comparisons of relative mobility rely on data
and methodologies that are far from perfect, a growing number
of economic studies have found that the United States stands out as
having less, not more, intergenerational mobility than do Canada and several
European countries. American children are more likely than other children to end up in the same place on the income distribution as their parents. Moreover, there is emerging evidence that mobility is particularly low for Americans born into families at the bottom of the earnings or income distribution.

Not wanting to listen to cold hard facts about their own country is one pet peeve that I would add to Pilgrims list of 17 about America. I´m American but when i see strong evidence I dont look the other way.

There are so many more factors to it than just financial mobility though. If you're in a country where you are more likely to to be in the same earning bracket as your parents and your parents make $52k a year, and the country with more mobility the average parent makes $35k a year, then that isn't saying you're still gonna make more money in the country with more mobility. And like I said, yeah maybe it's true in Norway, but you're also paying 40% taxes, so are you really making more money in the long run? I can promise you more people are trying to get American citizenship than in any scandinavian country.

[mofo]

(01-28-2012 10:24 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(01-28-2012 10:05 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(01-28-2012 10:00 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(01-28-2012 09:40 PM)mofo Wrote:  

In my opinion the US is the best place to go from rags to riches. If anybody thinks differently than please tell me where it is easier to go from zero to hero in terms of money.

Not anymore my friend. This according to the Brookings Institute

ECONOMIC MOBILITY OF FAMILIES ACROSS
GENERATIONS IS LOWER IN THE UNITED STATES
THAN IN MANY OTHER COUNTRIES
While Americans have an optimistic faith in the ability of individuals to
get ahead within a lifetime or from one generation to the next, there
is growing evidence of less intergenerational economic mobility
in the United States than in many other rich industrialized countries,
at least according to the relative mobility measures commonly used
in economic research.
The earnings of American men are more closely tied to the earnings of their fathers than are those of men in other countries. Both the United States and the United Kingdom stand out as having higher associations between fathers’and sons’ earnings—and thereforeless economic mobility—than do seven other industrialized countries, according to a comprehensive review by Corak. After reviewing dozens of studies of the earnings relationship between fathers and sons in the United States and other countries, and adjusting the statistics for comparability to the extent possible, Corak ranked the ninecountries in the order shown by
the bars in Figure 2.
• Low-mobility countries. In the United States and the
United Kingdom, about half (50 percent) of parental earnings advantages are passed onto sons. If trends hold consistent, it would
take an average of six generations for family economic advantage
to disappear in the United Statesand the United Kingdom.
• Mid-range countries. France, Germany, and Sweden were in
the mid-range of mobility measures for these nine countries.
• High-mobility countries. Paternal earnings had the least
effect on sons’ earnings in Canada, Norway, Finland, and Denmark, where less than 20 percent of income advantages are passed onto children. The implication of these statistics is that in these countries it would take three,
not six, generations, to essentially cancel out the effects of being
born into a wealthy family.
Recent studies suggest that Italy may be in the same “low-mobility” range as the United States and the United Kingdom, while both Spain and Australia join the list of countries with higher rates of mobility than
the United States.

Yeah, but when you say that, "The earnings of American men are more closely tied to the earnings of their fathers than are those of men in other countries." Is that really a big deal if the average dad is making $52k a year? Thos high mobility countries in scandinavia get taxed out the ass and if you've read a lot of info on the forum, it seems to be a very dull places to live.

Im not trying to say that America isnt full of financial opportunities. Only that it is way less relative to other countries NOW compared to 20 or 30 yrs ago. And that it is a myth that the US is number one with regard to economic mobility.

IN CONCLUSION (not according to me but the Brookings Institute)

The findings from cross-country research challenge the traditional view of the United States as a land with more mobility and opportunity than other countries. While cross-country comparisons of relative mobility rely on data
and methodologies that are far from perfect, a growing number
of economic studies have found that the United States stands out as
having less, not more, intergenerational mobility than do Canada and several
European countries. American children are more likely than other children to end up in the same place on the income distribution as their parents. Moreover, there is emerging evidence that mobility is particularly low for Americans born into families at the bottom of the earnings or income distribution.

Not wanting to listen to cold hard facts about their own country is one pet peeve that I would add to Pilgrims list of 17 about America. I´m American but when i see strong evidence I dont look the other way.

Ok

[raliv]

The guy likes American girls because they like his Irish accent. Life is good when you are banging sluts huh? What a twist.

[chochemonger1]

All of the data Ive been showing and my argument applies to the the Majority of Americans who have it worse than past generations. But NOW, for yuppies, wall street and silicon valley types, lawyers, salesmen, medical specialists, wanna be actors, politicians, feminazis, who represent the 10 percent minority.... YES America is still the Holy Land of Opportunity. Who in this forum wants to live out their years in a country that has become like that.

[mofo]

(01-28-2012 10:49 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

All of the data Ive been showing and my argument applies to the the Majority of Americans who have it worse than past generations. But NOW, for yuppies, wall street and silicon valley types, lawyers, salesmen, medical specialists, wanna be actors, politicians, feminazis, who represent the 10 percent minority.... YES America is still the Holy Land of Opportunity. Who in this forum wants to live out their years in a country that has become like that.

Ok

[InternationPlayboy]

Dude, I have a job that requires very little experience and I make a good living. I'm always able to save money and live comfortably (Even go out and drink at expensive places 2-3 times a week), and that's with no college degree, trade school, nothing. You're acting like the average person has to struggle to make a living in America, and that's simply not the case. Most "poor" people by American standards live better than most other citizens of the world.

[MikeCF]

The comments to the article prove its truth.

Sensitive much?

I enjoy living in America, but the criticisms offered were thoughtful and on-point.

[mofo]

Which 'dude'?

[InternationPlayboy]

Any 'dude' who's making it sound like America is not an easy place to make a living. Not to you. I think we're basically on the same wave length on the matter.

[mofo]

(01-28-2012 11:00 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

Any 'dude' who's making it sound like America is not an easy place to make a living. Not to you. I think we're basically on the same wave length on the matter.

Ok

[chochemonger1]

(01-28-2012 10:52 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

Dude, I have a job that requires very little experience and I make a good living. I'm always able to save money and live comfortably (Even go out and drink at expensive places 2-3 times a week), and that's with no college degree, trade school, nothing. You're acting like the average person has to struggle to make a living in America, and that's simply not the case. Most "poor" people by American standards live better than most other citizens of the world.

Youd be surprised how much a bit of capital, can go a long way in a 3rd world country. I got out of the US a few years ago and started investing in real estate in a small South American country. Ive been there for 4 years and now I have enough passive income to live all year round in whatever country Id like(except for maybe Japan and Norway). And that with working 20 hour weeks and being my own boss all these 4 years(thus being able to travel to Brazil and Colombia for 4 or 5 months each year). I´m pretty sure id still be in a cubicle working my ass off and just being able to travel 2 weeks each year if I´ve stayed in the US. And that unfortunately is the reality for most Americans.

[InternationPlayboy]

(01-28-2012 11:05 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(01-28-2012 10:52 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

Dude, I have a job that requires very little experience and I make a good living. I'm always able to save money and live comfortably (Even go out and drink at expensive places 2-3 times a week), and that's with no college degree, trade school, nothing. You're acting like the average person has to struggle to make a living in America, and that's simply not the case. Most "poor" people by American standards live better than most other citizens of the world.

Youd be surprised how much a bit of capital, can go a long way in a 3rd world country. I got out of the US a few years ago and started investing in real estate in a small South American country. Ive been there for 4 years and now I have enough passive income to live all year round in whatever country Id like(except for maybe Japan and Norway). And that with working 20 hour weeks and being my own boss all these 4 years(thus being able to travel to Brazil and Colombia for 4 or 5 months each year). I´m pretty sure id still be in a cubicle working my ass off and just being able to travel 2 weeks each year if I´ve stayed in the US. And that unfortunately is the reality for most Americans.

This is basically my plan. I was planning on doing the same thing in terms of investing in properties in South America. I'd be happy to hear some more insight on how you got where you are. Did you just save up a lot working your ass off in the states to invest in these properties? That's basically my idea.

[sine wave killer]

As an American the thing that I agree with the most is the car culture here. I grew up in the NYC area and I have yet to even get a license. Unfortunately I recently moved to a different part of the country where having a car is the norm. To be honest, some days I feel pretty f*cked but it's not that bad. If it weren't for the smog, my long walks to different stores wouldn't be so bad.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-28-2012 11:05 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(01-28-2012 10:52 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

Dude, I have a job that requires very little experience and I make a good living. I'm always able to save money and live comfortably (Even go out and drink at expensive places 2-3 times a week), and that's with no college degree, trade school, nothing. You're acting like the average person has to struggle to make a living in America, and that's simply not the case. Most "poor" people by American standards live better than most other citizens of the world.

Youd be surprised how much a bit of capital, can go a long way in a 3rd world country. I got out of the US a few years ago and started investing in real estate in a small South American country. Ive been there for 4 years and now I have enough passive income to live all year round in whatever country Id like(except for maybe Japan and Norway). And that with working 20 hour weeks and being my own boss all these 4 years(thus being able to travel to Brazil and Colombia for 4 or 5 months each year). I´m pretty sure id still be in a cubicle working my ass off and just being able to travel 2 weeks each year if I´ve stayed in the US. And that unfortunately is the reality for most Americans.

Can you bust a data sheet on this?

[chochemonger1]

(01-28-2012 11:11 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(01-28-2012 11:05 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(01-28-2012 10:52 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

Dude, I have a job that requires very little experience and I make a good living. I'm always able to save money and live comfortably (Even go out and drink at expensive places 2-3 times a week), and that's with no college degree, trade school, nothing. You're acting like the average person has to struggle to make a living in America, and that's simply not the case. Most "poor" people by American standards live better than most other citizens of the world.

Youd be surprised how much a bit of capital, can go a long way in a 3rd world country. I got out of the US a few years ago and started investing in real estate in a small South American country. Ive been there for 4 years and now I have enough passive income to live all year round in whatever country Id like(except for maybe Japan and Norway). And that with working 20 hour weeks and being my own boss all these 4 years(thus being able to travel to Brazil and Colombia for 4 or 5 months each year). I´m pretty sure id still be in a cubicle working my ass off and just being able to travel 2 weeks each year if I´ve stayed in the US. And that unfortunately is the reality for most Americans.

This is basically my plan. I was planning on doing the same thing in terms of investing in properties in South America. I'd be happy to hear some more insight on how you got where you are. Did you just save up a lot working your ass off in the states to invest in these properties? That's basically my idea.

Yes i will start a thread soon as to not sabotage this one. Ive been living in Quito, Ecuador for more than 4 years now and I did take my savings from the US there. Bought a cheap house in cash(property prices are the lowest in South America), remodeled, subdivided it and started renting out the sucker. Best to buy a property close to a University as it is way easy to rent out small units to students. Saved up the money from the rentals and with some more capital I had, bought another property. Now I have 4 properties that produce a very good cash flow without paying any income taxes (just property taxes which are dirt cheap compared to the States). Though I dont particularly like the country, financially it has been pretty good to me and it has alllowed me to explore Colombia and Brazil, which are the 2 best countries to live in the Americas.

[Vicious]

It took me forever to learn that when people in America asks you how you're doing, actually telling them is considered to be giving too much info.

[Donald Duck]

I would rather be an American than a European, but I would be scared what would happen to me should I get a disease.

[Deb Auchery]

(01-29-2012 06:56 AM)Donald Duck Wrote:  

I would rather be an American than a European, but I would be scared what would happen to me should I get a disease.

Hahaha

[Mr.GM]

My two cents, from a guy who lived in Southern Europe and traveled through the continent:
The level of racism in Portugal and Spain was absurd.I know that In Italy is like that as well.

I was shocked to see how they treat black people there (I'm white - So European Look).

The US is not that bad.

I have friends living as Legal immigrants in Europe and in The US.

The guys in America are far happier than the ones in Europe, it seems that america does a better job at integrating people from different creeds and races.

In Europe its harder to feel that you are a part of their society. In America as long as you don't live in the Bible belt , It's easier.

In The US people care if you are hard working and if you are willing to integrate.

If you respect the country and its people its easier to make friends and to be considered "American"

In Europe doesn't matter if you are the best in your area, and integrated in the local community , you will never be one of them.

Ethnicity is far more important

But obviously I agree that American Politics are fucked up , the police state ,moral hipocrisy , crazy gun laws , wasteful consumerism etc..

[Deluge]

(01-29-2012 09:01 AM)Mr.GM Wrote:  

My two cents, from a guy who lived in Southern Europe and traveled through the continent:
The level of racism in Portugal and Spain was absurd.I know that In Italy is like that as well.

I was shocked to see how they treat black people there (I'm white - So European Look).

The US is not that bad.

I have friends living as Legal immigrants in Europe and in The US.

The guys in America are far happier than the ones in Europe, it seems that america does a better job at integrating people from different creeds and races.

In Europe its harder to feel that you are a part of their society. In America as long as you don't live in the Bible belt , It's easier.

In The US people care if you are hard working and if you are willing to integrate.

If you respect the country and its people its easier to make friends and to be considered "American"

In Europe doesn't matter if you are the best in your area, and integrated in the local community , you will never be one of them.

Ethnicity is far more important

But obviously I agree that American Politics are fucked up , the police state ,moral hipocrisy , crazy gun laws , wasteful consumerism etc..

Would you still compare the U.S favorably to say... Sweden or elsewhere in Scandinavia?

[Mr.GM]

Pdog : "Would you still compare the U.S favorably to say... Sweden or elsewhere in Scandinavia?"

-I'm talking considering a place to LIVE and Work , not for travel and pleasure , thats another history


As a model of society, Scandinavia is obviously above the rest of the world in terms of social security , level of education , civil rights etc.

I'm not going to talk about Jante law ,boredom , feminism etc..because that issue has been brilliantly adressed by Roosh.

And we have to admit that they(Specially Sweden) are taking the shit from the rest of the world, as they have admitted tons of refugees from the middle east in their country. From one side it's a noble attitude that even may hurt their own society , one of the reasons why far-right parties are on the rise in Sweden.

Anyway , a guy like Vicious could talk about this with more knowledge than me .

On the Other Hand , Denmark has Nazist laws to defend their "pure" genetic pool. And they are very nationalist an anti-foreigner.
It's hard for a Dane man to marry a foreign women, for example.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12366676


So , the US is indeed more receptive to foreigners. It's easier to make it in America. freedom of speech.
the economy historically is much more dinamic.

So I'm not surprised that many guys want to live in the U.S.

This doensn't mean that the United States is the best place on earth, it has many negatives.

[Lumiere]

I met the guy that wrote this (Benny) in Rio.

Cool guy and yeah, what he wrote is spot on.

[Donald Duck]

(01-29-2012 09:01 AM)Mr.GM Wrote:  

My two cents, from a guy who lived in Southern Europe and traveled through the continent:
The level of racism in Portugal and Spain was absurd.I know that In Italy is like that as well.

I was shocked to see how they treat black people there (I'm white - So European Look).

The US is not that bad.

I have friends living as Legal immigrants in Europe and in The US.

The guys in America are far happier than the ones in Europe, it seems that america does a better job at integrating people from different creeds and races.

In Europe its harder to feel that you are a part of their society. In America as long as you don't live in the Bible belt , It's easier.

In The US people care if you are hard working and if you are willing to integrate.

If you respect the country and its people its easier to make friends and to be considered "American"

In Europe doesn't matter if you are the best in your area, and integrated in the local community , you will never be one of them.

Ethnicity is far more important

But obviously I agree that American Politics are fucked up , the police state ,moral hipocrisy , crazy gun laws , wasteful consumerism etc..

I agree. A black friend of mine in Europe has to continuously face questions like: "Where are you from?" Then the guy replies: I am from right here. Then they say, "No, where are you REALLY from?" Then the guy has to explain how he was adopted, etc. While in the States, a black guy does not have to explain anything. A Turkish guy that I know has family living in the States and claims it's far better there due to the negativity towards Turks in Western Europe.

[Aliblahba]

Great. Europeans colonized the U.S. and now their bitching about not wanting to live here. WTF? I'd expect this from the French, but the rest of your lot? C'mon.