[Vicious]

Somewhat related, now I know why Roissy insist on keeping the white supremacists around on his blog. From his last entry:

" My personal theory about our hope and changer is that the burdens of his [Obamas] intrinsic duality and loneliness that all racial halfies must bear"

WTF!?

[MidniteSpecial]

I agree with the g. But I will also say it takes being alpha to become famous in the first place. Regardless whether we disapprove of there skinny jeans, style or whatever. You put in that work and reach fame level that's alpha. Shit, we are talking about them they aren't talking about us.

[Giovonny]

Who is more "alpha"? Justin Bieber or Joran van der Sloot ???

[iknowexactly]

(10-10-2012 01:13 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Who is more "alpha"? Justin Bieber or Joran van der Sloot ???

Bieber. He'll get to fuck/impregnate more models/brilliant girls/athlete girls than the murderer guy. If he wants.

To operationally define alpha, he can/will father more superior offspring.

With the POS guy, you hear about the 1/100 of 1% of the rest of his life the murderer has that's interesting, like when he bribed his way into fucking some gross chick.

The other 99.99% of his time he 's just sitting in a cell, or bullshitting with other low-lifes in a shithole prison. Day after day, decade after decade.

Bieber is wherever he wants to be, every minute of every day, in control of exactly who he is with .

Whatever type of model you'd like to fuck, he could fuck dozens just like that. Without ever leaving his mansion.

And he actually does something creative. You may not like his music ( But you're not famous, so no one cares what you like) but he does go to recording studios and sings, and practices dancing and stuff. Nothing dishonorable about that.

As far as "Heartiste" goes, he has some interesing interpretations of research, but his blog is now a home for a bunch of racist, fascist pseudo-Christians who endlessly echo each other about how bad libruls are.

The net effect of his blog is more "Hateiste" than "Heartiste". Lost the plot.

[soup]

(10-10-2012 03:26 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(10-10-2012 01:13 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Who is more "alpha"? Justin Bieber or Joran van der Sloot ???

Bieber. He'll get to fuck/impregnate more models/brilliant girls/athlete girls than the murderer guy. If he wants.

To operationally define alpha, he can/will father more superior offspring.

With the POS guy, you hear about the 1/100 of 1% of the rest of his life the murderer has that's interesting, like when he bribed his way into fucking some gross chick.

The other 99.99% of his time he 's just sitting in a cell, or bullshitting with other low-lifes in a shithole prison. Day after day, decade after decade.

Bieber is wherever he wants to be, every minute of every day, in control of exactly who he is with .

Whatever type of model you'd like to fuck, he could fuck dozens just like that. Without ever leaving his mansion.

And he actually does something creative. You may not like his music ( But you're not famous, so no one cares what you like) but he does go to recording studios and sings, and practices dancing and stuff. Nothing dishonorable about that.

As far as "Heartiste" goes, he has some interesing interpretations of research, but his blog is now a home for a bunch of racist, fascist pseudo-Christians who endlessly echo each other about how bad libruls are.

The net effect of his blog is more "Hateiste" than "Heartiste". Lost the plot.

I think Heartiste would agree the Bieber is more Alpha.

[Timoteo]

(02-02-2012 05:08 PM)soup Wrote:  

Roissy also says that gay guys tend to have better game for females than most straight guys.

It's more alpha to have more options, even if you don't act upon them. If we are here to talk game, alphaness is measured by your ability to seduce women.

In the end, it's about getting what you want. As much as I'd like every guy to get good at game, there might be some who really are content just being beta followers. It's like the beta dogs who start to freak out if they don't have an alpha in charge.

This may be because they are considered harmless, without any sexual agenda. They are even less a threat than another woman, in that there is no jealousy, pettiness or competitiveness.

[OGNorCal707]

The labeling and theory behind alpha and beta gets kind of old after a while, I know it's a functional way of categorizing men and their behaviors, but it is too subjective and can encompass a wide range of criteria.

For some guys alpha means the guy with the biggest muscles/strength/ability to dominate a fight and intimidate others, other guys might consider "alpha" to be the guy who gets the most women, while others might see "alpha" as the one with the most wealth, influence, etc. Therefore one guy here might think Bill Gates is more alpha than Jon Jones, while still another guy might think Justin Timberlake is more alpha then any of them, because he gets the most pussy.

That's why I am moving away from the terms and the ideology of "alpha" or "beta", unless it is a clear case where a man encompasses all the quintessential characteristics of either traits. It gets to a point where people are just going in circles in their own heads over what is "alpha" and "beta" instead of just not giving a fuck and doing their own thing.

On top of that, I'm getting sick of all these people who blindly follow Roissy or whoever the current hot new guru in the manosphere is, I don't care what Roissy says or how he defines alpha. I may read his stuff occasionally and get good stuff out of it, but I don't follow it like a cult and take CH as the final word on all topics.

[Krauser]

There's a big difference between a man's man and a lady's man and much confusion comes from not differentiating. I can think of many tough, solid, salt-of-the-earth guys who simply can't score hot women. I also know plenty of worthless spineless rats who I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire, but they do score hot women.

Of course, having the best of both worlds is ideal.

[Tex Pro]

(10-10-2012 05:51 PM)Krauser Wrote:  

There's a big difference between a man's man and a lady's man and much confusion comes from not differentiating. I can think of many tough, solid, salt-of-the-earth guys who simply can't score hot women. I also know plenty of worthless spineless rats who I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire, but they do score hot women.

Of course, having the best of both worlds is ideal.

This is absolutely true.

That is why I like Roissy's definition of Alpha: it is only dependent on how much hot pussy a dude can get.

All other definitions of Alpha involve some form of being a "man's man" or looked up to by society, etc.

All that stuff doesn't matter. The only PUA definition of Alpha should be how much hot pussy a dude can get.

[Samseau]

Quote:

All that stuff doesn't matter. The only PUA definition of Alpha should be how much hot pussy a dude can get.

It's not that other definitions don't matter, but that for the purposes of leading the player lifestyle we are focusing on a specific set of behaviors in order to maximize getting our dicks wet.

[xsplat]

Here are some alpha traits:

1) The guy has slept around, and has experience with women. In the Roissy definition of alpha, the man is the guy who COULD sleep around, because women offer themselves to him, but he doesn’t necessarily follow through. Maybe. Not all alphas will have all alpha traits. This trait is alpha, as it dramatically changes the mans personality and approach to women and to life. The man not only can, but has fucked and fuck buddied and flinged and romanced with dozens and dozens of women. He’ll have been heart broken and broken hearts, been played and played the players. Many of the girls will have fallen in love, given him marriage proposals, and remained smitten for years after he left. There may be many “oops” pregnancies in there, as the girls “forgot” to be careful.

2) Closely related to number 1. The man no longer thinks of the women’s feelings first. He is capable of causing heartbreak knowingly. He no longer feels duty bound to protect the womans feelings at the expense of his own interests.

3) The bulk of all alpha attitudes flows out from number 2. The man has made a dramatic life shift in empasis, towards selfishness. Paradoxically this is attractive, and he starts to become conscious of this. Treat em mean to keep em keen is a phrase he’ll share with his buddies.

4) Grows out from number 3. He becomes commanding, and gives direct orders to his women. “Give me the remote.” He makes little allowance for what the girl wants to watch.

5) He is confident that he can compete in the sexual marketplace. He may not be the best his girl has ever had, but he knows he’s up there in the top 10%, and will remain in that to 10% no matter who she dates in the future. Again, this trait is not common to all alphas, but it is an alpha trait. The sexual confidence translates directly into authoritative command over his women.

6) He isn’t playing alpha games. If he wants closeness and sensitivity, he’ll have closeness and sensitivity. If it’s an intimate moment he won’t shy away from intimacy. He can say “I love you” and mean it. However his form of poetry will have constraints in meter and rhyme, and he’ll have an embodied feeling for never saying “I love you” more than 1/3rd as many times as the girl does. He’ll know that less is more when it comes to giving appreciation and validation. So when he gives it, it’s felt fresh by the girl as a real gift. He may compliment every good meal and call her a good girl, but the girl will know it’s appreciation backed by a true value judgment. Sometimes he’ll say the food sucks.

[xsplat]

7) Enjoyment and expertise in subjects within at least two of these categories:
a) Sports. Two bonus points if the sport is a marital art, one bonus point if it’s dangerous.
b) Music
c) Something intellectually competitive and for which recognition is given, such as skill at writing, philosophical debate, or some business skills.
d) Contemplative and meditative arts, especially when it gives some recognition within a community of peers, but also as it applies to the profundity of your presence.
e) Social discourse, which could be through public speaking, acting, bartending, keeping a group at a table spellbound with your conversation while making them feel as participants, or chatting up strangers.

[xsplat]

Virtue is a trait that is valued among men. If it is valued among women, it seems to be valued no more than cunning or self interest. Women often mis-treat their soldier husbands and fuck around with bikers thieves and murderers.

That’s not to say that men should therefore not keep our own set of values, which is why I think there is so much tension in even knowing what the set of traits that are valued by women are. It’s a very different set.

[Grit]

Game= irrational self confidence, preselection, and amused/aloof mastery. The entire concept of game is to not waste time on any of the other shit.

Alpha= natural with all of the above.

No need to make it complicated.

[xsplat]

(10-11-2012 11:44 PM)Grit Wrote:  

Game= irrational self confidence, preselection, and amused/aloof mastery. The entire concept of game is to not waste time on any of the other shit.

Alpha= natural with all of the above.

No need to make it complicated.

So you don't like to put too fine a point on it? Why is that - is it because comparisons of nitty gritty details might weaken your irrational self confidence?

How about the general notion that the alpha is the guy the girls consider in the top 10% of men? There are many different categories of top 10%. Looks, wealth, social skills, charisma, and so forth.

Or is the alpha the guy in the top 10% of confidence and amused mastery ONLY?

See, if we are going to put things into words, and share the words, and have them be useful to others, irrational words aren't the most helpful.

It's not ALL about attitude.

[Hades]

By the definition of "How much hot pussy that X can score", Mystery is the biggest alpha male alive. He's well known even among other top PUAs of being better than other PUAS at the venusian arts. He used to pick up bitches that other top PUAs were currently fucking. The guy is a legend. But I don't think he's a pure alpha because of his histrionics in "The Game" (if that can be credited as a good source). His insecurity in the company of other men says a lot about how he perceives himself. Now naturally I'm all in favor of abandoning the alpha beta bullshit altogether, it's too subjective.

Alpha and beta are related to "how much hot pussy can so and so can score" but they don't completely correlate. The biggest alphas that I know aren't even aware of game. Women just sort of happen to them.

[kazz]

(01-27-2012 04:06 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

That's a good point G. Also, when it's just a bunch of guys hanging out, inevitably one guy in the group emerges as the leader and the group goes where that guy directs.

Fame isn't necessarily something that comes from within (or at all justin bieber) so it's hard for me to believe that any boyband goof is more "Alpha" than us. Especially when you hear about these famous actors doing beta shit.

That type of power struggle bullshit is for teenagers and adolescents; mature accomplished men have no need for this, we know who we are, sometimes I may have a good idea, guys will follow, sometimes others might have a good idea I will follow. If I am with a group of people and one tool tries to be the big man, he will get no respect from me, prob more likely a smack in the face.

[OGNorCal707]

(10-12-2012 12:45 PM)Hades Wrote:  

By the definition of "How much hot pussy that X can score", Mystery is the biggest alpha male alive. He's well known even among other top PUAs of being better than other PUAS at the venusian arts. He used to pick up bitches that other top PUAs were currently fucking. The guy is a legend. But I don't think he's a pure alpha because of his histrionics in "The Game" (if that can be credited as a good source). His insecurity in the company of other men says a lot about how he perceives himself. Now naturally I'm all in favor of abandoning the alpha beta bullshit altogether, it's too subjective.

Alpha and beta are related to "how much hot pussy can so and so can score" but they don't completely correlate. The biggest alphas that I know aren't even aware of game. Women just sort of happen to them.

Not to knit pick, but I don't know how alpha Mystery actually was, if you read the game then you know he was a babbling, unstable mess over this Russian broad Katya, who he proclaimed to be a 10, she's definitely hot but I'd rank her more in the 8 range. Ofcourse she turned out to be a backstabbing bitch who ditched Mystery and started dating and fucking his roomate "Herbal" who I believe currently goes by the name Tynan. Shit, I got respect for Mystery, I consider him one of the greats, I know how crazy bitches can be, and I know how you can slip into an unstable state when you're head over heels for a chick. But, it's not super alpha when your girlfriend dumps you and starts dating your roommate.

Here is Katya:

[iknowexactly]

(10-14-2012 04:15 AM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

The guy is a legend. But I don't think he's a pure alpha because of his histrionics in "The Game" (if that can be credited as a good source). His insecurity in the company of other men says a lot about how he perceives himself.

Mystery is a genius who was the first to integrate evolutionary psychology, behavioral psychology, anthropology, and extensive in vivo field testing of hypotheses; and apply the combination to modern courtship behavior. Academic researchers looked at some of the same elements but probably partly for political reasons couldn't research and/or present the whole package like Mystery did.

Like many very creative individuals, it appears he has a mood disorder. He was suffering probably from a depressive episode in the Game when Strauss accompanies him to a psychiatrist. Strauss, a NYT bestselling author, mentioned in the account that he also thought Mystery was a mood-disordered genius, similar to other very talented people he had known.

The idea that severe mood disorders can be completely managed by "how you look at yourself" and other cognitive techniques is incorrect, as probably (I would guess) 95%+ of experienced professional therapists would tell you.

Some people need to use drugs, along with other techniques, to maintain best functioning because of their mental health problems.

[xsplat]

(10-14-2012 04:35 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

Some people need to use drugs, along with other techniques, to maintain best functioning because of their mental health problems.

Meditation also won't fix mood and anxiety disorders.

What was the most helpful for me was a combination of a lower stress lifestyle plus getting regular and varied sex. That had an enormous impact on mood and anxiety.

Which is why I now think that managing your internal state isn't even as important as managing your external state. Get the foundations and arrangements of the structure of your life in order, in order to affect your internal attitude. Not just the other way around.

For mental health, moving to a low stress location where the girls are plenty will enable you to relax and be happy.

Or you can try to maintain a great inner attitude within the rat race, and take meds.

[Pappy]

The scientific definition of alpha male is the male with the highest rank... so for science it doesn't matter how he got there : big muscles or big smarts. In chimpanzees and gorillas societies, the alpha male is almost always the physically strongest male, who beats up the others and get all the females and ressources. In human societies, it's not that cut clear... you can get on the top in many different ways.

[Grit]

(10-12-2012 03:37 AM)xsplat Wrote:  

(10-11-2012 11:44 PM)Grit Wrote:  

Game= irrational self confidence, preselection, and amused/aloof mastery. The entire concept of game is to not waste time on any of the other shit.

Alpha= natural with all of the above.

No need to make it complicated.

So you don't like to put too fine a point on it? Why is that - is it because comparisons of nitty gritty details might weaken your irrational self confidence?

How about the general notion that the alpha is the guy the girls consider in the top 10% of men? There are many different categories of top 10%. Looks, wealth, social skills, charisma, and so forth.

Or is the alpha the guy in the top 10% of confidence and amused mastery ONLY?

See, if we are going to put things into words, and share the words, and have them be useful to others, irrational words aren't the most helpful.

It's not ALL about attitude.

Yah yah sure. Except this discussion is about Roissys definition of alpha. Don't hate the messenger. He preaches Game ( capitalized) uber alles specifically because things like looks, fame, fortune, social connections are useless without the appropriate frame and behavior.

Tim Tebow- top 10% of rushing/sneaking QBs in the NFL.
Beta- still a virgin "waiting for the right one."
Alpha- "still a virgin" cause the drunk sluts he bangs every night don't, like, count at all.

See the difference?

[20Nation]

To be honest I agree more with Roissy. I think one of the most alpha things is knowing when to act beta. There are times when saying something beta is the best thing you can do to get the girl. It's just you have to know when.

[xsplat]

(10-14-2012 10:59 PM)Grit Wrote:  

specifically because things like looks, fame, fortune, social connections are useless without the appropriate frame and behavior.

That's not true.

All the various attractive traits are additive, and if you score highly on any one of them you can do ok. Score high on two, and you'll be above average.

How does Rollo's saying go?

"Game, looks, money. Pick two."

But you can also just pick one if it's in the rarified top percentage. Of course here we work on all three. And we put a fine point on naming and quantifying and pinpointing any and every trait that is attractive.

I don't mind Roissy's emphasis so much. There is a place for emphasis. I don't like how he tends to view game as a replacement for other attractive traits. That's a category error that can lead men astray.

[TheMan]

(01-27-2012 04:06 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

That's a good point G. Also, when it's just a bunch of guys hanging out, inevitably one guy in the group emerges as the leader and the group goes where that guy directs.

Fame isn't necessarily something that comes from within (or at all justin bieber) so it's hard for me to believe that any boyband goof is more "Alpha" than us. Especially when you hear about these famous actors doing beta shit.

Like crawling back to the ugly ass actress that cheated on you with her director, despite having armies of those afore mentioned screaming fans to choose from.