[blurb]

For educational and research purposes, which region has better racial and ethnic harmony? Not just in terms of pussy, but overall including health, education, and life advancement.

For instance, America had the Rodney King race riots as early as 1992. I've always been interested to know if Europe has had any race riots similar to what America had and on what scale.

Also another example, do immigrants have an easier time adjusting in America or Europe?

This is just my hypothesis, but I would think immigrants (of any origin) would have an easier time in the U.S. compared to Europe since in America, everybody can say you should go back to where you came from (America was founded by alien colonists), while in Europe, they can basically tell you to get off their land since it basically is their land.

[Excelsior]

Tough call.

I'm tempted to say that America has more racial tensions than Europe given its history. The country was built on the foundation and maintenance of a racial hierarchy (with plenty of institutional prejudice and racial supremacism to go with it), and those divisions still remain. As an immigrant of any race (though these days given the political environment, particularly hispanic), running into these racial tensions/prejudices and their any wider social side effects can create problems.

That being said, the ethnic clash between Europeans and Muslims in some parts of Western Europe is no small matter.

I'll give the edge to the USA given the depth and historical length of its racial issues, but Europe shouldn't be viewed as a paradise.

Quote:

This is just my hypothesis, but I would think immigrants (of any origin) would have an easier time in the U.S. compared to Europe since in America, everybody can say you should go back to where you came from (America was founded by alien colonists),

While most here cannot claim to be anything more than alien colonists of some kind, that has not prevented many from behaving as though they have exclusive and superior authority over the land regardless. The cultural imperative that marched behind the theory of "manifest destiny"(inherent divine title to the land) remains in many circles, regardless of when their ancestors actually got here and who was here first. We may all be alien colonists, but that doesn't mean we all act that way.

[Moma]

I say America hands down. I have family that lived in the States that emigrated from Europe and none of them are complaining about the choices they made.
I see different minorities doing big things in U.S by and large limited only by the amount of effort they are willing to put in.

Europe locks you in as an immigrant by and large, for life.

Also, America is like a continent serving as a country so every state is different.

Some guys in here say oh the women in America suck but they live in a certain state. For instance, I never hear el mechanico complain about the lizards in his city because Tampa is una mina d'oro.

And before some say, oh but Moma the lizards in <insert European country> are so receptive and easy to bang and slim, I tell them this:

Lizard cooperation has nothing to do with whether the country has good race relations or not.

[Pilgrim37]

Europe is getting worse ,but that's cause immigration is continuing without the majority populations consent,particularly Muslim,Indian subcontinent aqnd Middle East immigration.

Also it is noticeable the increase in Chinese in major cities .

When you see areas change so drastically local populations are bound to resent it and this is going to cause friction.
These are long established stable communities and cultures,being screwed by the politically correct purveyors of multiculturalism.

Especially when there is no real integration just continual migration through marriage ,family, from "home".

America is much better in turning its' immigrants or at least their kids into Americans.
But even America is having problems doing that with Pakistanis and Indians.

How the races interact..well that's a different story....
Birds of a feather ,fly together

[kosko]

Neither.

Canada has the best race relations IMO.

You can conform or not. Nobody gives a shit here.

The only ethnicity which gets the short end of the stick here are Aboriginals. By default any newcomer will be on a high status level than the First Nations peoples here. I know this is Europe or USA thread, but IMO they still have a lot of problems which are from from nice.

Lets not forget many African-Americans fled the USA for Libya. Libya a Arab nation was more equal and fair to blacks then the USA - its bizarre to think that was the case.

[Moma]

(11-17-2011 10:08 AM)kosko Wrote:  

Neither.

Canada has the best race relations IMO.

You can conform or not. Nobody gives a shit here.

The only ethnicity which gets the short end of the stick here are Aboriginals. By default any newcomer will be on a high status level than the First Nations peoples here. I know this is Europe or USA thread, but IMO they still have a lot of problems which are from from nice.

Lets not forget many African-Americans fled the USA for Libya. Libya a Arab nation was more equal and fair to blacks then the USA - its bizarre to think that was the case.

Canada does not have the best race relations. I live in Canada, I know how it goes here. The P.C nonsense doesn't fool me. People MOST definitely give a shyt in Canada, they just don't show it in public.
It's still America.

[Roosh]

Oh boy another race thread.

[Moma]

Sorry Roosh, I guess we need to get laid more. I have a trip coming up in under a month..fresh lizards to follow..

[americanInEurope]

America has the better race relations by far.

Europe has never had a civil rights movement, some kind of change where the voices of the minorities came together united and said we will not take it anymore. But I think that train is coming.

Europe isn't even wiling to talk about it because most Europeans think they're country has no race problem. People who talk that shit are "troublemakers" and complainers, but year after year you're seeing more extreme behavior in so called tolerant countries by social and cultural conservative groups that are confused and too lazy to dig deeper and see what the real issue is. I've had Germans say to me how could there be a race problem when they never see it (WTF??), or that I don't experience true racism because I'm not really black (I'm American), and shit like that. Sometimes I have to calm down and watch myself, because the utter cluelessness infuriates me. Sometimes, I just want to grab them by the collar and say that I feel awfully black when the police pull me over in Nuremberg 7 fucking times in a month, or when nightclub bouncers let all of my German friends in except me and the other black guy, or when my girlfriend and I can't walk the streets without hearing drunk dudes shout "hey why can't you find a white German to date, what are you with him for? Just for his big dick right?" etc etc etc. The problem with some places in Europe is, because they're completely unaware of any experience but their own, and because most of them live in homogenous societies, they have no filter or sensitivity with what they say and do in regards to other races or religions. A lot of people have put up with that shit for a long time in hopes that things will get better, but they haven't. Immigration has increased all over Europe but the governments are still full of old white Catholic men. That's fine because that's the majority, but don't be surprised when you have rioting on the streets. You have to make it your priority to address the immigrants with dignity and respect. Most people are extremely lazy when it comes to this and will lump an entire people together without even talking to them. On the flipside, a lot of these 1st generation immigrants have been living in the country for 30 years and still don't speak the language. WTF is up with that!!?? I can understand the frustration on both sides, but one thing that will fuck it all up is shit like Angela Merkel getting on nation TV and declaring multiculturalism has failed. So utterly lazy.

To my knowledge, I've never experienced that kind of blatant racism in the states. If it is blatant, it'll be dealt with by lawyers or the police. America has a history with racism and it's had to face some ugly truths and come clean about a lot of things. American racism was different then than European racism now. The American southerners mostly came from parts of the UK known for violence and drunkenness and intolerance. It's no surprise of the unspeakable shit that went down in the South and that trumps anything Europeans have ever done today to blacks/Asians/Gypsies/etc. But we will at least admit it as being wrong and work towards repairing the damage it's done, through TV or other powerful ways. Today there is zero tolerance for that shit. Most covert discrimination in America a person can deal with by simply being the best... best worker, having the best game, best swag, best idea, more money, etc. Most Americans, when given the chance between a black guy who has his shit together and a white guy that doesn't, will chose the black guy because it makes sense. There's not need to support your ethnic or racial group like it is in Europe. The pressure to do the right thing is enormous.

All that being said, Europe is a continent of many nations. Some nations are better than others. I think the UK is leading the pack as far as race relations, although my friends in the UK say they would never elect a black Prime Minister there. France is pretty tolerant, and even horrible old Germany is pretty tolerant in the bigger cities, as long as you assimilate and speak perfect German, which is understandable. South Germany is horrible and I'd stay away if I were a foreigner.

[americanInEurope]

(11-17-2011 10:24 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Oh boy another race thread.

Sorry Roosh man, but until the situation gets better out there, there will always to be "another race thread."

I'd like to ignore the shit, I really would. I'd like to think when guys tell my girlfriend she should get a white guy, or when my Asian girls dad asks why she couldn't get someone better who is Asian or white, or when I get into an elevator women clutch their purses, or when I drive my new Nissan GTR to England people are surprised when I say I'm an Engineer and not a footballer or rapper, or when my co workers tell me I'm different from all the other blacks (even though they don't know any other blacks so what experience are they drawing this from), etc etc etc, I'd like to think that these are all just isolated incidents and don't account for the majority of people. But this shit happens everyday, and to other brothers out there. Now, either we are all just crazy, or there's something do this.

My thing is, let it be. It is what it is. I don't mind, it just makes me stronger. But what I can't stand, is people putting this off as some kind of isolate incident, like it doesn't happen that much. Like my experience and countless other dude's experiences are just in our heads, like we're crazy or cry baby's or something. I could give a fuck is racism exists for the next 1000 years, cause it doesn't stop me at all. But don't blow it off like it doesn't exists, because that's kinda insulting. Not you, just people in general. One love brotha.

[kosko]

USA racism from an outside perspective is still very structural. From housing, to loans, jobs. etc advantages or disadvantages are still hammered in between the lines of law. Outside of that people generally use the American foundation as a way to link to each other and squash any perceived differences - this is just my outside perspective tho. People exploit the structural means to segregated neighborhoods and schools but outside of that everything is cool.

Europe had its civil rights movement through bloodshed in previous centuries. Ethnic groups made their borders and generally assumed it would remain inclusive forever. Still even today nations like the UK are still 90% white. The small numbers of immigrants that have come over have been treated unfairly but I feel Europe explode the problem way more than the USA. The USA makes more of a circus out of it but Europe raises the level to violent far to easily.

[Arado]

Does this include Russia and EE? If so, America hands down.

But even without them, the amount of successful minorities in Hollywood, Business, government, and Media in the US completely trumps Europe. You just don't see that in Europe. That's the beauty of the free market. Your economic value is what matters, not your heritage.

But I don't mean to hate on Europe, since they are still better than most of the world out there in terms of accepting minorities. The simple fact is that America is a settler society...we are a nation formed by immigrants and our national identity is ideological, not ethnic.

[Kbar]

I'm in the UK- there are pretty crappy conditions for immigrants here, I'll tell you that. Brits don't seem to be quite as racist towards white immigrants e.g. the poles as America, but certainly those from pakistan, somalia etc. get a rough deal.

[Timoteo]

I think the biggest issue in Europe, particularly in the Mediterranean, is immigration from North Africa. In recent years there's been a sharp backlash, and it's largely rooted in Islamophobia. Even foreign workers that are there legally are being deported more frequently, particularly in Spain. France has inflamed greatly in recent years also. First, there were riots and mysterious fires in the black areas of Paris. Blacks, and I'm not talking immigrants but people BORN there, were angry about the lack of employment opportunities, services, etc. The designer John Galliano recently lost his job, and was fined for public anti-semitic rantings. The actress Brigette Bardot was fined a couple of years or so ago for a public rant she made about the practice of Islam in France. I believe a law against women wearing veils in public was passed.

On the flip side, historically, France has been welcoming to black artists (musicians in particular) who faced racism and couldn't get paid fairly for their work here in the US. Nina Simone simply left America for Europe to live because of racism, and only returned occasionally to perform. MOST of the great jazz musicians performed there to great fanfare, and were treated with the respect they earned. The fashion/magazine industry in Europe is also more open to faces of color. Black models regularly appear on the cover of European editions of Vogue, etc., but not here in the US. I believe in it's over 100 year history, the American issue of Vogue has only had 4 women of color on its cover (Halle Berry, Oprah Winfrey, Jennifer Hudson and LeBron James/Giselle Bundchen). However, no black supermodels managed to find their way onto Vogue's cover here. In July 2008, Italian Vogue put out "A Black Issue" which featured 4 different covers, each with a different black models on the cover - Liya Kebede (she was in the film "The Good Shepherd" - she was the African girl that got thrown out of the plane), Sessilee Lopez, Jourdan Dunn and Naomi Campbell. Each cover issue had a fold-out cover featuring the other 3 girls. They put it out to address the issue of black girls not being featured enough. The inside of the issue was for the most part the same as all of their issues, but featured more ads with black models and pictorials featuring more black girls than normal. It was a headache to get here in NY, even though the issue got mainstream media attention. Midtown Manhattan is full of newstands and magazine/newspaper stores. No one had the fuckin' thing, and I asked. Most didn't even know what I was talking about. Finally, I found someone that had it, and smartly, he had the issue in the window, so folks could see that he had it. There were a couple of other people there looking for it too, and since he only had a couple of issues left, we decided what cover each of us wanted (I wanted the one with Liya, she wanted Naomi). I asked the owner why it was so hard to find, and he said that it was a special issue, so it had to be requested. Even with the attention the issue was getting, and the novelty value of it, it wasn't being requested by merchants. It's as if they didn't think it would sell, when there are PLENTY of people of color that would have bought them up. Ridiculous.

[Aiurtime]

(11-17-2011 01:26 PM)Kbar Wrote:  

I'm in the UK- there are pretty crappy conditions for immigrants here, I'll tell you that. Brits don't seem to be quite as racist towards white immigrants e.g. the poles as America, but certainly those from pakistan, somalia etc. get a rough deal.

The Poles are discriminated againts in the U.S? I didn't know that

[nomadicdude]

While we're at it, what does everyone think about race relations in the Republic of Kiribati?

[T and A Man]

You Ameriacns have been guilted to the extreme.

The U.S actually has one of the better race relations in the world.

Take out those of Afrian descent, there is an awful legacy there related to slavery, but one race does not make race relations.

Virtually every other immigrant group has managed to fit it and suceed to some degree. East Asians do better in the U.S than most other countries, south Asians do better, central and south ameriacns, eastern europeans.

As far as race riots in Europe, they are a monthly occurence, paris was torn up as recently as 2007, there has been large scale riots in germany this year, they are frequent in southern Italy and are starting to ferment in Spain. The North of England has plenty in places like Oldham 10 years ago, and they are a tinderbox now.

To add lastly, African freed slaves left for Liberia, not Libya.

[Batata]

Europe is essentially having a cultural war against the Muslim immigrants it brought in for cheap labor from the Indian subcontinent, North Africa, and Turkey. Whereas American cultural identity is elastic and more accepting of extra-cultural elements, Europeans identify their lands as the bastion of Caucasian Christendom and don't want other people meddling with the trajectory of their cultural evolution, citizens or not.

Based on that description, I would say that Europeans are more hostile to minority groups, although I would not say that sentiment necessarily applies to individuals of different races/cultures.

[rudebwoy]

Europe by a landslide has better race relations. The europeans have a problem with muslims coming to there countries and getting handouts why everyone has to work for there's. Mind you Europe is not a country as we all know, America is so the argument might not be fair.

I am speaking from the point of view as a educated black man, I was offered jobs in Europe that I would never get in Canada.

[rudebwoy]

(11-17-2011 10:24 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Oh boy another race thread.

+1

This seems to be an obsession for some people!

Money is green
Pussy is pink

[blurb]

(11-17-2011 10:04 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(11-17-2011 10:24 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Oh boy another race thread.

+1

This seems to be an obsession for some people!

I remain unapologetic about starting this thread. I did not incite any hateful remarks, racial slurs, or trolling.

I was genuinely interested in absorbing knowledge in terms of how the overall life is experienced by certain people on both sides of the Atlantic.

americanineurope: Great post and awesome analysis. It was just the sort of thing I was looking for. That kind of information is hard to come by anywhere else due to extreme PC and denial.

Race has a lot to do with the everyday world.

For example, Roosh noted how Spaniard-looking guys do well with Polish chics. Who wouldn't want that information? That's valuable information right there. Or how well black guys do in Croatia? Isn't that something race-related but also informative? Or how Mixx noted how Latin looks are extremely helpful in the Plains states?

Ya'll are bitching about race threads, but place value on race-related information when it comes to helping you out.

I don't understand.

Do you want information when your looks are highly valued in certain areas and will increase your chances with the women? Or do you want to be politically correct and just not have that valuable data?

[rudebwoy]

Blurb - This topic has been covered in way or another. If a guy raves about x country then people will automatically discredit the country or the girls in the country.
I honestly believe a well dressed decent looking black man will be valued in alot of countries, usually countries that typically do not have alot of black people to begin with. I can speak strongly about European countries, they are much better than America/Canada. I will glady share some details offline with you, but if you have not been to Europe I suggest you head there soon.

I agree you do not get this information, the media will never promote countries that are good for you. A good example of this is Japan, which is crazy for Reggae music/hip hop culture and fashion.

[beta_plus]

America is the most racist country in the world - until you've been anywhere else*.

*Canada not included

[Timoteo]

I read a piece in the New York Times that discussed these issues with regards to the Netherlands. I chat with a couple of women there, one in Amsterdam (she's white), and the other in Nijmegen (she's Indian). The article discussed some of the racial/religious backlash against Muslims, and how immigrants are slowly moving in and "taking over" neighborhoods that were previously white. It also touched on the issues of rising crime. Here's one of the problems - countries are resistant to allowing immigrants to fully assimilate, in that they have trouble finding employment, getting the same services in their neighborhoods, starting businesses, etc., and face obvious racism, they'll turn to other means of survival, namely crime. That's not to excuse it, but survival by whatever means is human.

I discussed the article with my friend in Nijmegen, because I thought she'd have greater insight into the issue. She's Indian, but from Suriname (which until '75 was a Dutch colony). Her parents immigrated to the Netherlands when she was 11 years old, so she's spent the majority of her life in the Netherlands. She was married to a white Dutchman, and they have a daughter. She told me she's faced her share of racism from whites there, and her daughter, though born there, will never be seen as a true citizen. At the same time, they get many blacks from the Caribbean (Netherlands Antilles and Aruba) and Suriname. The feeling is that blacks take advantage of the immigration policies, when in reality the aren't immigrants. They HAVE citizenship, as Suriname, The Antilles and Aruba are part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. Since they aren't white, they aren't really viewed that way. The chick in Amsterdam actually dates black men exclusively (the father of her two kids is white, but since breaking up with him it's brothers all the way). She was with a guy from Curacao for 4 years, broke up with him, and recently started seeing another dude. It's not a problem with these people speaking the language either - Dutch is spoken throughout their colonies/territories. Part of the problem is the colonizers love using their territories to buy up property and have nice vacation destinations, but don't like to extend the same rights to the colonized when they want to go to the "home" country (some countries have laws forbidding the ownership of property by "immigrants").

[Timoteo]

As grown men, we should be able to have these kinds of discussions. To be able to discuss race in the context of travel, and the politics and racial demographics of foreign countries. If anything, the threads about attractiveness, what race fucks ugly/fat women, etc. are more useless than threads like this. If you feel like you can't contribute without flaming, just pass over that thread. If you have some info or a particular experience in a country that will be helpful or informative, please share it. I'm sure guys can handle it without taking it the wrong way.