[Soma]

One of my closest male friends is getting married in a year (to a girl!) They seem fine together and have been together a few years. She’s attractive, comes from a good family, is generally a good person, etc. and I don’t have any specific reservations about her.

On the other hand, he’s still in his 20’s and is just starting to pull in high 6/low 7 figures. Given that he will be earning the bulk of his wealth just as they get married and I really don’t want to see him get completely divorce ass-raped 10 years down the road, as statistically is likely to happen, I feel I have to say something.

I've been moving around a lot and haven’t really talked to him previously about it. If this was your friend that you hadn’t seen in a while, how would you broach the following topics?

- Make sure he’s doing this for the right reasons. He’s been engaged before in his early twenties, to a girl who fit the same description above, and the engagement (fortunately!) ended very badly. It seems he really wants to quickly conform to society’s expectation of him. Why do this so soon?

- Get a rock-solid prenup! He needs to nail down the details of the divorce while they’re still in love, otherwise he will, with near certainty, get financially fucked. Understand that in Anglo countries family courts are extremely prejudiced against men. Like every person who’s about to get married, I’m sure he believes divorce will never happen to him, especially since his and her parents are all still together. The statistics tell otherwise.

From my experience, these can be rather sensitive topics and unless approached correctly the person, no matter how open minded on other topics, can immediately get defensive and shut down all rational processing. I want to get him to think about this stuff without being a dick or hurting our friendship.

(A bit about my friend: I’d describe him as a higher beta, very intelligent, and extremely successful, career-wise and financially, within his field. In our group of friends he first discovered “The Game,” so knows a bit about the issues covered on this board and elsewhere, but has not fully taken the red pill.)

[MiXX]

(10-31-2011 10:05 PM)Soma Wrote:  

One of my closest male friends is getting married in a year.

My childhood best friend of 20+ years called me from NYC in Argentina at the time to announce his wedding and invite me to be a groomsman.

We were very tight, until the day of his wedding. The very next day, his number changed, his address changed, and none of his single male friends knew where he was.....his new wife castrated him, and forbids him from having male friends successful with women.

That was 6 years ago...I still have not heard from him since his wedding day. Hope it works out different for you, but I doubt it will.

Mixx

[BortimusPrime]

You aren't going to convince a guy that's in wuv of anything. Best case he pretends to agree with you and doesn't take any of your advice. Worst case you get to listen to the non-parody version of this:

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/55c51f0c23/dear-woman

[Brian]

what does he do for a living?

[Timoteo]

(10-31-2011 10:36 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

(10-31-2011 10:05 PM)Soma Wrote:  

One of my closest male friends is getting married in a year.

My childhood best friend of 20+ years called me from NYC in Argentina at the time to announce his wedding and invite me to be a groomsman.

We were very tight, until the day of his wedding. The very next day, his number changed, his address changed, and none of his single male friends knew where he was.....his new wife castrated him, and forbids him from having male friends successful with women.

That was 6 years ago...I still have not heard from him since his wedding day. Hope it works out different for you, but I doubt it will.

Mixx

Wow...this is extreme. Usually, over time, a chick will gradually isolate you, or your boys, bit by bit will stop calling because they assume you can't hang anymore. To immediately drop off the face of the Earth that way says a lot about what kind of man he is.

[Soma]

(10-31-2011 10:48 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

You aren't going to convince a guy that's in wuv of anything. Best case he pretends to agree with you and doesn't take any of your advice. Worst case you get to listen to the non-parody version of this:

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/55c51f0c23/dear-woman

Frankly, I think it's less that he's madly in love and more that he feels the need, for whatever reason, to get married now. Your best case is exactly what I don't want to happen: I give him advice, he ignores it, and I look like a dick and his wife hates me when he inevitably tells her. On the other hand, he's a bright guy and capable of looking out for his own self interest. Basically, I want to somehow make sure he knows the "real" facts of marriage before he goes through with it and I want to present it to him in the best way possible.

(11-01-2011 01:17 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

(10-31-2011 10:36 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

(10-31-2011 10:05 PM)Soma Wrote:  

One of my closest male friends is getting married in a year.

My childhood best friend of 20+ years called me from NYC in Argentina at the time to announce his wedding and invite me to be a groomsman.

We were very tight, until the day of his wedding. The very next day, his number changed, his address changed, and none of his single male friends knew where he was.....his new wife castrated him, and forbids him from having male friends successful with women.

That was 6 years ago...I still have not heard from him since his wedding day. Hope it works out different for you, but I doubt it will.

Mixx

Wow...this is extreme. Usually, over time, a chick will gradually isolate you, or your boys, bit by bit will stop calling because they assume you can't hang anymore. To immediately drop off the face of the Earth that way says a lot about what kind of man he is.

That shit is wack. You think it could never happen to someone you know but its yet another lesson that you should never underestimate the depths to which a woman can fuck with a beta's head. The second a broad tells me what I can or cannot do she's immediately out the fucking door, no questions asked.

[Timoteo]

"...The second a broad tells me what I can or cannot do she's immediately out the fucking door, no questions asked." Soma

That's it right there. The problem is dudes don't check this shit from the beginning, from the first time she attempts to dictate to you. It's like training a pet - when an animal does something wrong, they get disciplined. And you continue until they learn that certain behavior is wrong and cease to do it. If you let it go, and don't train from the beginning, you can't train them later, or it will be extremely hard to. They need to know who you are from the beginning, at that certain things aren't subject to negotiation. You have to let them know that you aren't afraid of them walking if they don't like it. If you don't establish certain things early, it's more difficult to do it later without drama. There's no way you can allow a woman to basically erase your whole life before you met her. Any man that allows that deserves misery.

[el mechanico]

"...The second a broad tells me what I can or cannot do she's immediately out the fucking door, no questions asked." Soma

Keep pounding them out. Do whatever you want and watch the relationship implode. She'll be back. I just went through this a couple weeks ago with a girl that I started banging. She assumed that we were in a LTR because most dudes fall right in with that. "Your not gonna"
"This is going to stop when" Blah Blah...
The bottom line is her pussy got destoyed at my house. I almost wish I had an STD to pass on her.

[Timoteo]

(11-02-2011 10:06 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

"...The second a broad tells me what I can or cannot do she's immediately out the fucking door, no questions asked." Soma

Keep pounding them out. Do whatever you want and watch the relationship implode. She'll be back. I just went through this a couple weeks ago with a girl that I started banging. She assumed that we were in a LTR because most dudes fall right in with that. "Your not gonna"
"This is going to stop when" Blah Blah...
The bottom line is her pussy got destoyed at my house. I almost wish I had an STD to pass on her.

YEP...they love to run the bait and switch. A married chick I was doing for years used to tell me about stuff her girlfriends used to talk about when they were together. Out of 5 of them, 4 were on that "I used to give blowjobs when we were dating, but now that we're married I don't have to do that anymore" shit. A man is a pig for wanting her to continue doing shit that pleased him before marriage (shit that made him want to marry her in the first place), and a man must ALSO discontinue doing things that he enjoys himself. And in the next breath they wonder why men are reluctant to commit to LTRs...

[MiXX]

(11-02-2011 09:55 AM)Timoteo Wrote:  

You have to let them know that you aren't afraid of them walking if they don't like it.

See that's the problem with marriage, a girl cannot just walk away - she's got you by the balls now. If she walks away, it will be with half of your pension/salary and whatever else she can sink her teeth into.

So, marriage takes away a LOT of power of control from men, and gives it ALL to women.

When you marry, you are fucked. It will cost you money no matter what pre-nup you signed.

Mixx

[Brian]

(11-02-2011 11:07 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 09:55 AM)Timoteo Wrote:  

You have to let them know that you aren't afraid of them walking if they don't like it.

See that's the problem with marriage, a girl cannot just walk away - she's got you by the balls now. If she walks away, it will be with half of your pension/salary and whatever else she can sink her teeth into.

So, marriage takes away a LOT of power of control from men, and gives it ALL to women.

When you marry, you are fucked. It will cost you money no matter what pre-nup you signed.

Mixx

yep...from a negotiation standpoint you lose all leverage one you mutter those two little words "i do"

[Prowl]

In practice (depending on jurisdiction), pre-nups really exist to protect assets that were in place BEFORE the wedding. If you're married for over 10 years (again, time varies with jurisdiction), anything that was earned during the marriage is going to get split up regardless of any pre-nup.

[Brian]

(11-02-2011 12:15 PM)Prowl Wrote:  

In practice (depending on jurisdiction), pre-nups really exist to protect assets that were in place BEFORE the wedding. If you're married for over 10 years (again, time varies with jurisdiction), anything that was earned during the marriage is going to get split up regardless of any pre-nup.

to some extent i could actually deal with that. where you get fucked royally is the future income.

[El Rey]

(10-31-2011 10:36 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

(10-31-2011 10:05 PM)Soma Wrote:  

One of my closest male friends is getting married in a year.

My childhood best friend of 20+ years called me from NYC in Argentina at the time to announce his wedding and invite me to be a groomsman.

We were very tight, until the day of his wedding. The very next day, his number changed, his address changed, and none of his single male friends knew where he was.....his new wife castrated him, and forbids him from having male friends successful with women.

That was 6 years ago...I still have not heard from him since his wedding day. Hope it works out different for you, but I doubt it will.

Mixx

Yep, this is exactly what is going to happen with one of my best friends. In our circle of friends, a few of us have been friends with him for years (one dude and him go back all the way for 12 years, half of their lives). He's only known this cunt bitch for a year and a half, and he was foolish enough to get engaged 3 months ago. And the cunt bitch is ugly and chubby, she's a 4 on a good day.

Another friend and I went to visit homeboy and his cunt fiancee for Halloween weekend. It was supposed to be a weekend of the boys reuniting and having fun. WRONG - the mutual hatred between the cunt fiancee and us (two womanizing playboy friends, she sees us as immature partiers and a bad influence on him) boiled to the surface.

We had a huge argument on Halloween night. Yelling, bullshit accusations, etc. So much bullshit spewed out of her mouth that my friend and I were ready to sock her in the face. We pointed out to homeboy that she treats him like shit, belittles him, yells at him in front of us, and that he doesn't stand up for himself. What does he do? Just stands silently in the corner and stares at the ground. He let her do ALL the talking for him. This bitch has the audacity to say, "You've known him for years, but I've gotten to know him real well for a year and you guys don't know the new Sam". At that point we realized that the darkness had completely taken over our old friend. We got all our stuff and left their apartment at 4am and went to a hotel.

Our boy fucking sold us out and threw us under the bus. He picked that cunt whore over us, his friends of many years. In Latin culture we've got a saying, "Si se deja, se deja". That explains it all with my friend. As much as I hate that cunt whore he calls his fiancee, he let it happen to himself.

I can not be in the same room as his fiancee. I will most likely bow out of the wedding party. I'm coming to terms with the sad fact that he will never hang out with us once he is officially married.

It's fine though. I'm expecting a phone call from him in five years. He'll be crying and telling me he's been served divorce papers. I'll tell him to come out for a drink and chase some new snatch.

[Timoteo]

"We had a huge argument on Halloween night. Yelling, bullshit accusations, etc. So much bullshit spewed out of her mouth that my friend and I were ready to sock her in the face. We pointed out to homeboy that she treats him like shit, belittles him, yells at him in front of us, and that he doesn't stand up for himself. What does he do? Just stands silently in the corner and stares at the ground. He let her do ALL the talking for him. This bitch has the audacity to say, "You've known him for years, but I've gotten to know him real well for a year and you guys don't know the new Sam". At that point we realized that the darkness had completely taken over our old friend. We got all our stuff and left their apartment at 4am and went to a hotel."

What we have here is a FULLY BROKEN MAN. Now I can understand him not wanting to appear to take your side against her (OH the drama he would have had to deal with then!), but to let it escalate to the point where you guys felt you had to leave in the wee hours of the morning, and he didn't stop you, is straight PUSSY. He could have jumped in and deaded that argument. Privately, he needed to check her on her behavior. He needed to look at that episode and say to himself, "THIS IS WHAT MY LIFE IS GOING TO BE." This is who I'm about to marry. You need to at least allow things to appear cool until AFTER the wedding. Now, he's going to have to fill wedding party slots he thought were already settled. WEAK. It's game over for him - his nuts are already secured in her purse.

[Samseau]

(11-02-2011 03:25 PM)El Rey Wrote:  

(10-31-2011 10:36 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

(10-31-2011 10:05 PM)Soma Wrote:  

One of my closest male friends is getting married in a year.

My childhood best friend of 20+ years called me from NYC in Argentina at the time to announce his wedding and invite me to be a groomsman.

We were very tight, until the day of his wedding. The very next day, his number changed, his address changed, and none of his single male friends knew where he was.....his new wife castrated him, and forbids him from having male friends successful with women.

That was 6 years ago...I still have not heard from him since his wedding day. Hope it works out different for you, but I doubt it will.

Mixx

Yep, this is exactly what is going to happen with one of my best friends. In our circle of friends, a few of us have been friends with him for years (one dude and him go back all the way for 12 years, half of their lives). He's only known this cunt bitch for a year and a half, and he was foolish enough to get engaged 3 months ago. And the cunt bitch is ugly and chubby, she's a 4 on a good day.

Another friend and I went to visit homeboy and his cunt fiancee for Halloween weekend. It was supposed to be a weekend of the boys reuniting and having fun. WRONG - the mutual hatred between the cunt fiancee and us (two womanizing playboy friends, she sees us as immature partiers and a bad influence on him) boiled to the surface.

We had a huge argument on Halloween night. Yelling, bullshit accusations, etc. So much bullshit spewed out of her mouth that my friend and I were ready to sock her in the face. We pointed out to homeboy that she treats him like shit, belittles him, yells at him in front of us, and that he doesn't stand up for himself. What does he do? Just stands silently in the corner and stares at the ground. He let her do ALL the talking for him. This bitch has the audacity to say, "You've known him for years, but I've gotten to know him real well for a year and you guys don't know the new Sam". At that point we realized that the darkness had completely taken over our old friend. We got all our stuff and left their apartment at 4am and went to a hotel.

Our boy fucking sold us out and threw us under the bus. He picked that cunt whore over us, his friends of many years. In Latin culture we've got a saying, "Si se deja, se deja". That explains it all with my friend. As much as I hate that cunt whore he calls his fiancee, he let it happen to himself.

I can not be in the same room as his fiancee. I will most likely bow out of the wedding party. I'm coming to terms with the sad fact that he will never hang out with us once he is officially married.

It's fine though. I'm expecting a phone call from him in five years. He'll be crying and telling me he's been served divorce papers. I'll tell him to come out for a drink and chase some new snatch.

Same thing happened to me this summer. Best friend since high school I barely ever talk to or hang with because his girlfriend got into a fight with me over something stupid.

[MiXX]

The funny thing is that as soon as they divorce or break up, these same losers we thought were our best friends come running to us like little boys who just fell off their bycicle and scraped their knee.

Mixx

[Soma]

(11-02-2011 12:15 PM)Prowl Wrote:  

In practice (depending on jurisdiction), pre-nups really exist to protect assets that were in place BEFORE the wedding. If you're married for over 10 years (again, time varies with jurisdiction), anything that was earned during the marriage is going to get split up regardless of any pre-nup.

Thank you very much for bringing up this very important point. I wasn't fully aware of the those details and looking into it a bit more it seems, generally, that one truly is completely at the mercy of the family court system regardless of what any prenup says about income earned during marriage. What a fucked up system.

As such, I've decided not to bring these issues up with him - the potential downside is unfortunately just not worth it. All the information is out there if he chooses to seek it.

Such is life.

[Soma]

Fuuuuuuuuck...just got word that my other closest friend, who I've known for almost 25 years, got engaged on NYE (after finding out not long before that his girlfriend "accidentally" got knocked up.) I leave town for one bloody week and this shit goes down. I'm not even 30 and soon I'll be the last man standing in my group. Already my friends tell me stuff like "I wish I could do what you do [i.e. travel the world, bang pretty girls, party like it's 1999, etc.] but I have so many commitments. Blah, Blah, Blah." as if the life decisions they've made were the only ones available and now completely unchangeable. Unbelievable. On the other hand, at least they'll be back on the market in 5-10 years while they're still relatively young and with painful marriage 2.0 lessons learned.

[Nonpareil]

(11-01-2011 11:59 PM)Soma Wrote:  

Frankly, I think it's less that he's madly in love and more that he feels the need, for whatever reason, to get married now.

This is really a problem; guys that get married because it's 'what a man has to do' or 'it's what's next', and not because 'I want to spend the rest of my life with this person' are really setting themselves up for big problems in the future.

The fact that men are slowly starting to realize that society doesn't really give a fuck about them is starting to change this (today less than half of 25-34 year olds are married), but it won't be totally eradicated for at least half a century. The laws suck and are almost comically female-favoring, but any guy who gets married because he thinks it's what he's supposed to do and not because he wants to deserves what he gets.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Soma and anyone who has friends about to getting married, send them these links:
http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/viewt...hp?t=12155

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-8984.html

if they have half a brain, they'll be grateful for life to you for saving them or at least, giving them the full picture before they make such an important decision with full facts.

[Samseau]

Quote:

but any guy who gets married because he thinks it's what he's supposed to do and not because he wants to deserves what he gets.

Vast majority of men get married believing they want to do it.

[canucktraveller]

(01-01-2012 08:11 PM)Soma Wrote:  

Fuuuuuuuuck...just got word that my other closest friend, who I've known for almost 25 years, got engaged on NYE (after finding out not long before that his girlfriend "accidentally" got knocked up.) I leave town for one bloody week and this shit goes down. I'm not even 30 and soon I'll be the last man standing in my group. Already my friends tell me stuff like "I wish I could do what you do [i.e. travel the world, bang pretty girls, party like it's 1999, etc.] but I have so many commitments. Blah, Blah, Blah." as if the life decisions they've made were the only ones available and now completely unchangeable. Unbelievable. On the other hand, at least they'll be back on the market in 5-10 years while they're still relatively young and with painful marriage 2.0 lessons learned.

Shit I'm 24 and almost the only single guy left in my group. 2 friends are engaged, another 2 are close and my best friend would be married already if they could afford it.

[Deluge]

(01-02-2012 12:22 PM)canucktraveller Wrote:  

(01-01-2012 08:11 PM)Soma Wrote:  

Fuuuuuuuuck...just got word that my other closest friend, who I've known for almost 25 years, got engaged on NYE (after finding out not long before that his girlfriend "accidentally" got knocked up.) I leave town for one bloody week and this shit goes down. I'm not even 30 and soon I'll be the last man standing in my group. Already my friends tell me stuff like "I wish I could do what you do [i.e. travel the world, bang pretty girls, party like it's 1999, etc.] but I have so many commitments. Blah, Blah, Blah." as if the life decisions they've made were the only ones available and now completely unchangeable. Unbelievable. On the other hand, at least they'll be back on the market in 5-10 years while they're still relatively young and with painful marriage 2.0 lessons learned.

Shit I'm 24 and almost the only single guy left in my group. 2 friends are engaged, another 2 are close and my best friend would be married already if they could afford it.

You need a new group.

[ersatz]

I would really try to convince him to not get a marriage licence. Go through the marriage party, get the ring, have a honeymoon, be monogamous, etc but do not sign that fucking piece of paper. Say that it will be much better for his relationship in general if his wife doesn't have that legal loaded gun. Go through the statistics, what really happens, how divorce and family court is really the thing that makes divorce hell. You can't avoid family court and child support if you have children, but you'll avoid a lot of pain. They can always get the marriage licence later if they really need it for something. A marriage licence is a legal device like a corporation and not much more. They don't realize all of the crap that is behind it.

I wish I had the courage when I was 14 to not get my little brother circumcised just as he was born. I was uncomfortable with talking about sexual things with my parents at the time, and if I really brought up enough of a stink about it and not the one minor argument that I had with my mother, I think I could of changed her mind and helped my brother dodge a bullet.

Have the courage to stand up for your friend. Most people sign that marriage licence out of ignorance and tradition and really don't realize what it is. He can still be in love and live the married life. Not getting a marriage licence and not living in a place with common law marriage is the best prenup you can buy.

Also what is he doing that earns 7 figures? Tax wise in the USA marriage would be a bad idea also, since being married becomes a disadvantage after ~$400'000 in household income.