[The Lesser Evil]

Quote:

PPS: The most racism I've encountered are from light skinned mulattas who won't date blacks because to them it's "dating down". Usually those kinds of women live in Downtown Toronto and gold dig white males. I still can't crack that nut...pun...partially intended. Not impossible, just need a very watertight game.

Stuck up light skinned chicks (ahhh my favorites!), gott love' em.
Keep us posted.

[joehoya]

(10-29-2011 08:42 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(10-29-2011 02:48 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

PPS: The most racism I've encountered are from light skinned mulattas who won't date blacks because to them it's "dating down". Usually those kinds of women live in Downtown Toronto and gold dig white males. I still can't crack that nut...pun...partially intended. Not impossible, just need a very watertight game.

I go to an Ivy school up here in the Northeastern USA, and this is the only place where I've run into this type of woman. In high school or off campus, I rarely see them, but every other girl here seems to think this way. Black men are bottom of the totem pole where I'm at, so it can be frustrating to deal with, especially when you know that most of the world outside that environment isn't like that.

Don't sweat it, man. This will COMPLETELY change a few years after you graduate. The reality is, while some of those light-skinned girls may get some white guy to date them/fuck them while in college, once they hit "the real world" that shit will stop with a quickness. The simple fact is that white dudes are not marrying black chicks (no matter how light) in any significant numbers. They don't have to, there are more than enough white women for them to chose from.

As one well educated black man to another, I cannot begin to explain to you how quickly the tables will turn just 5 years after undergrad. By the 10 year mark, it will be freakish. For starters, let me throw this number out to you. Black and Latina women are graduating at a rate of 2 to 1 compared to black and Latino men. I was a late adopter of facebook (I think I signed up a year or two ago). When I logged on and put my personal info in (school, current occupation), chicks I knew in college, high school, even GRAMMAR SCHOOL were hitting me up left and right.

Even better, the higher your academic/economic/social status the less competition you have amongst other black men, AND the more non-black women become open to you. I did the whole prep school/top tier (non Ivy) undergrad/Ivy Grad school thing and I can tell you that the experience in the working world is great, and it actually keeps getting better. My personal opinion is that no top tier black man should even consider marriage until at least 7 years after finishing undergrad, just so he can see what his options are.

[UrbanNerd]

(10-31-2011 10:28 PM)joehoya Wrote:  

(10-29-2011 08:42 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(10-29-2011 02:48 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

PPS: The most racism I've encountered are from light skinned mulattas who won't date blacks because to them it's "dating down". Usually those kinds of women live in Downtown Toronto and gold dig white males. I still can't crack that nut...pun...partially intended. Not impossible, just need a very watertight game.

I go to an Ivy school up here in the Northeastern USA, and this is the only place where I've run into this type of woman. In high school or off campus, I rarely see them, but every other girl here seems to think this way. Black men are bottom of the totem pole where I'm at, so it can be frustrating to deal with, especially when you know that most of the world outside that environment isn't like that.

Don't sweat it, man. This will COMPLETELY change a few years after you graduate. The reality is, while some of those light-skinned girls may get some white guy to date them/fuck them while in college, once they hit "the real world" that shit will stop with a quickness. The simple fact is that white dudes are not marrying black chicks (no matter how light) in any significant numbers. They don't have to, there are more than enough white women for them to chose from.

As one well educated black man to another, I cannot begin to explain to you how quickly the tables will turn just 5 years after undergrad. By the 10 year mark, it will be freakish. For starters, let me throw this number out to you. Black and Latina women are graduating at a rate of 2 to 1 compared to black and Latino men. I was a late adopter of facebook (I think I signed up a year or two ago). When I logged on and put my personal info in (school, current occupation), chicks I knew in college, high school, even GRAMMAR SCHOOL were hitting me up left and right.

Even better, the higher your academic/economic/social status the less competition you have amongst other black men, AND the more non-black women become open to you. I did the whole prep school/top tier (non Ivy) undergrad/Ivy Grad school thing and I can tell you that the experience in the working world is great, and it actually keeps getting better. My personal opinion is that no top tier black man should even consider marriage until at least 7 years after finishing undergrad, just so he can see what his options are.

Hell....it MAY start doing your senior year of college. I didn't attend an Ivy, but I attended one of those big football/basketball colleges. Those chicks turn their noses up to you UNTIL that athlete does not get drafted by the NFL or NBA....then those chicks started hanging out at the university's medicine or engineering departments.

[Excelsior]

(10-31-2011 11:11 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

(10-31-2011 10:28 PM)joehoya Wrote:  

Don't sweat it, man. This will COMPLETELY change a few years after you graduate. The reality is, while some of those light-skinned girls may get some white guy to date them/fuck them while in college, once they hit "the real world" that shit will stop with a quickness. The simple fact is that white dudes are not marrying black chicks (no matter how light) in any significant numbers. They don't have to, there are more than enough white women for them to chose from.

As one well educated black man to another, I cannot begin to explain to you how quickly the tables will turn just 5 years after undergrad. By the 10 year mark, it will be freakish. For starters, let me throw this number out to you. Black and Latina women are graduating at a rate of 2 to 1 compared to black and Latino men. I was a late adopter of facebook (I think I signed up a year or two ago). When I logged on and put my personal info in (school, current occupation), chicks I knew in college, high school, even GRAMMAR SCHOOL were hitting me up left and right.

Even better, the higher your academic/economic/social status the less competition you have amongst other black men, AND the more non-black women become open to you. I did the whole prep school/top tier (non Ivy) undergrad/Ivy Grad school thing and I can tell you that the experience in the working world is great, and it actually keeps getting better. My personal opinion is that no top tier black man should even consider marriage until at least 7 years after finishing undergrad, just so he can see what his options are.

Hell....it MAY start doing your senior year of college. I didn't attend an Ivy, but I attended one of those big football/basketball colleges. Those chicks turn their noses up to you UNTIL that athlete does not get drafted by the NFL or NBA....then those chicks started hanging out at the university's medicine or engineering departments.

You guys got me excited.

The hardest part of it all is that I know about this light at the end of the tunnel(the stats on gender ratio seemed to make it clear and others have told me about it), but it makes dealing with the BS here even more frustrating. Knowing that the experience is not only different, but vastly superior for people like me outside of this bubble just pisses me off more while I'm here. Then again, that also gives me more incentive/drive to focus on getting out. There's too much to gain out in the real world for me to get bogged down here.

+1s all around, this thread is legit. Usually when race comes up on the forum it turns into a shitshow, but this has been a great discussion that I hope can continue.

[Screwston]

I think any college educated Latino or black man who has some game and doesn't look like a troll is going to have a lot of fun when he gets settled in his career and all that shit. A lot of women (including latinas and blacks) dont expect us to do much with our lives. Hell, I've already seen girl's eyes sparkle when I tell them that I'm in school and plan to travel the world. Athlone I feel you. I'm just another brown face in the crowd down here but I aint tripping.

[jariel]

You have to understand though that most girls are terrible at choosing men correctly, and they rule you out before they ever know anything about you because of what you are.

It's very important that men in general re-frame the game.

Most chicks are wack. We don't give a fuck about their degrees -- what use do most of their degrees have and what did they actually learn while obtaining them? -- especially when most of them don't know how to do laundry, prepare a decent meal, or give a proper blowjob.

You need to get out of the mindset that you have to DHV for these women. Women are much more in tune with that shit than men are, they know a tight dude when they see and hear one, but the thing is, when you are that dude, most of these women will run away from you, because they know underneath it all, they're just not that bitch who can keep you.

Ultimately, they rather have you believe that you can't obtain from them that of what doesn't actually exist than have you find out the aforementioned reality and move on to greener pastures, which concretely confirms their unworthiness and furthers their inherent insecurities.

[htbrkid]

Im enjoying the posts. I come from Uganda Africa and the white chicks who are here are tourists,missionaries,volunteers and the expertriates. Usually the chicks who are here for work make the 8 and above and i rarely see them hooking up with black guys. Unfortunately most white chicks here are between 4 and 6. They are fat,unattractive or they just dont care how they look. Now for me,I am a decent pick up artist,Ive had chicks(black) ranging from 7 to 10. However my game evaporates when i want to approach a white chick. Most white chicks here will prefer dudes with dreds,infact me and my friends have a saying that 'u dont need dreds to be a rastafarai but u need them to hook up a white chick'. Im not the hood kind of guy to go to such lengths to pick up a chick. I ask myself at times why i should work so hard for a white 6 yet i can get a black 10.

[jariel]

(11-01-2011 06:35 AM)htbrkid Wrote:  

Im enjoying the posts. I come from Uganda Africa and the white chicks who are here are tourists,missionaries,volunteers and the expertriates. Usually the chicks who are here for work make the 8 and above and i rarely see them hooking up with black guys. Unfortunately most white chicks here are between 4 and 6. They are fat,unattractive or they just dont care how they look. Now for me,I am a decent pick up artist,Ive had chicks(black) ranging from 7 to 10. However my game evaporates when i want to approach a white chick. Most white chicks here will prefer dudes with dreds,infact me and my friends have a saying that 'u dont need dreds to be a rastafarai but u need them to hook up a white chick'. Im not the hood kind of guy to go to such lengths to pick up a chick. I ask myself at times why i should work so hard for a white 6 yet i can get a black 10.

If you can pull Black dime pieces, why do you even care to approach average/below average White chicks?

That's like a dude saying, "I can bag Naomi Campbell, but fuck, Judy Greer is giving me the hardest time!"

Don't hustle backwards.

[ColSpanker]

Interesting posts. Probably the best thread on here, and this is coming from an old white guy.
For what it's worth, during my brief time in a professional school (while attending college in the 70's), I noted how my DHV suddenly went up. Being the young fool I was, I never took advantage of my status.
But like one poster pointed out, those liberal arts chicks who are hanging out with the jocks from freshman to junior are going to be taking a sudden interest in the professional majors once they hit senior. Something to think about.

[Kish]

(10-29-2011 04:29 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

PS: it's all about class, if blacks in the US weren't an underclass, or if they somehow reached income parity with whites (or even overtook them), they will have access to any pussy as a group, and the social stigma will dissipate. For now because too many blacks are poor, there is considerable problem for the community as a whole. But I'm not as familiar with the US way of social operations as I am with Canada's. White Canadians just aren't as racist, yes, there is racism, but the system of white privilage has never taken deep roots in Canada due to it being a mostly white/aboriginal country for a very long time.
In other words, the mechanism of oppression weren't established as the country grew, therefore today immigrants of all colours have a chance to take full advantage of a system that hasn't been tainted by racial societal trenches.

In America black men are still a small minority of the population compared to white girls. So even with all the racism that exists here..it's still a great place to be a black man(ESPECIALLY if your educated). Probably not as great as Canada like you said.

[Paradox]

(11-01-2011 06:35 AM)htbrkid Wrote:  

Im enjoying the posts. I come from Uganda Africa and the white chicks who are here are tourists,missionaries,volunteers and the expertriates. Usually the chicks who are here for work make the 8 and above and i rarely see them hooking up with black guys. Unfortunately most white chicks here are between 4 and 6. They are fat,unattractive or they just dont care how they look. Now for me,I am a decent pick up artist,Ive had chicks(black) ranging from 7 to 10. However my game evaporates when i want to approach a white chick. Most white chicks here will prefer dudes with dreds,infact me and my friends have a saying that 'u dont need dreds to be a rastafarai but u need them to hook up a white chick'. Im not the hood kind of guy to go to such lengths to pick up a chick. I ask myself at times why i should work so hard for a white 6 yet i can get a black 10.

amen to a brotha from uganda. i guess we are 2 then.

[Moma]

(11-01-2011 08:25 AM)rakishness Wrote:  

(10-29-2011 04:29 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

PS: it's all about class, if blacks in the US weren't an underclass, or if they somehow reached income parity with whites (or even overtook them), they will have access to any pussy as a group, and the social stigma will dissipate. For now because too many blacks are poor, there is considerable problem for the community as a whole. But I'm not as familiar with the US way of social operations as I am with Canada's. White Canadians just aren't as racist, yes, there is racism, but the system of white privilage has never taken deep roots in Canada due to it being a mostly white/aboriginal country for a very long time.
In other words, the mechanism of oppression weren't established as the country grew, therefore today immigrants of all colours have a chance to take full advantage of a system that hasn't been tainted by racial societal trenches.

In America black men are still a small minority of the population compared to white girls. So even with all the racism that exists here..it's still a great place to be a black man(ESPECIALLY if your educated). Probably not as great as Canada like you said.

Don't believe the hype about Canada. I've been to a number of places in Canada and the US and the only difference between how they treat minorities in Canada and how they do it in the US is that the US always gives it to you raw.

In the US you know who your enemies are and who your friends are (by and large). In Canada, your enemies will shake you by the hand and say oh how can they do that in America, it's so horrible meanwhile they are scheming on you on the downlow.

[Screwston]

Yeah, I have a hard time believing Canada accepts minorities with open arms and won't talk shit. There's racism everywhere.

[UrbanNerd]

I waited until enough Canadian-related posting before I posted here. I have visited Canada many times (although mostly in Ontario) but this is what "I" saw....

1) While it seemed that interracial dating is more accepted in Canada, I still saw the same trends that I saw in the USA...basically black men (usually of Caribbean-descent) with white girls that most white men (and brothas with decent tastes) would not want. The white females had practically picked up every little knowledge of black culture through BET and urban radio.

2) Canada is just more "politically correct" than the USA with racism as I have heard many comments in whispers or off-record.

3) What also hurts Canada (even more than the USA) is what I call "intra-racism". Every little Caribbean nation want to act like their heritage is a separate entity...."I'm Trini....I'm Yardy...I am Guyanese" with girls of those backgrounds asking you to "drop them off a block from their home because their mom/dad don't want them with black men"...and you see their Mom and she is as dark or darker than you (smh). I have to remind them that in the USA, folks don't care if you are Trini/Jamaican/Guyanese, etc...you are thrown into one big "black bucket"....and some Puerto Ricans are too.

I'll never forget this club in Toronto called SweetWater. Some nights looked like "fat white women with black men" night. Now you may ask why was I there?....too pickup the black chicks because the Canadian brothas were not hollering at the sistas. It was SO EASY. Usually the first words out the frustrates black chicks were "I didn't expect to be approached". Of course I responded with the "white girls are not my thing line". Of course, she ate that up.....and ate my dick later on too, LOL.

NOTE: I will bang ANY race of chick including white....just not 300-pound, Marlboro-smoking white chicks.

[speakeasy]

(10-31-2011 10:28 PM)joehoya Wrote:  

(10-29-2011 08:42 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(10-29-2011 02:48 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

PPS: The most racism I've encountered are from light skinned mulattas who won't date blacks because to them it's "dating down". Usually those kinds of women live in Downtown Toronto and gold dig white males. I still can't crack that nut...pun...partially intended. Not impossible, just need a very watertight game.

I go to an Ivy school up here in the Northeastern USA, and this is the only place where I've run into this type of woman. In high school or off campus, I rarely see them, but every other girl here seems to think this way. Black men are bottom of the totem pole where I'm at, so it can be frustrating to deal with, especially when you know that most of the world outside that environment isn't like that.

Don't sweat it, man. This will COMPLETELY change a few years after you graduate. The reality is, while some of those light-skinned girls may get some white guy to date them/fuck them while in college, once they hit "the real world" that shit will stop with a quickness. The simple fact is that white dudes are not marrying black chicks (no matter how light) in any significant numbers. They don't have to, there are more than enough white women for them to chose from.

As one well educated black man to another, I cannot begin to explain to you how quickly the tables will turn just 5 years after undergrad. By the 10 year mark, it will be freakish. For starters, let me throw this number out to you. Black and Latina women are graduating at a rate of 2 to 1 compared to black and Latino men. I was a late adopter of facebook (I think I signed up a year or two ago). When I logged on and put my personal info in (school, current occupation), chicks I knew in college, high school, even GRAMMAR SCHOOL were hitting me up left and right.

Even better, the higher your academic/economic/social status the less competition you have amongst other black men, AND the more non-black women become open to you. I did the whole prep school/top tier (non Ivy) undergrad/Ivy Grad school thing and I can tell you that the experience in the working world is great, and it actually keeps getting better. My personal opinion is that no top tier black man should even consider marriage until at least 7 years after finishing undergrad, just so he can see what his options are.

+1. This is solid.

[Hoover]

Black guys here, if you're going to get married eventually, are you guys going to get married to a white woman?

If so, how will you go about raising the kids? That's another dimension to think about, teaching the kids about everything that's mentioned in this thread.

[speakeasy]

(11-02-2011 08:39 PM)Hoover Wrote:  

Black guys here, if you're going to get married eventually, are you guys going to get married to a white woman?

If so, how will you go about raising the kids? That's another dimension to think about, teaching the kids about everything that's mentioned in this thread.

I have no idea what race I'll end up marrying or even if I'll get married in the first place. If you gave me two women who were both an 8 one black, one white and their personalities were equally good, I'd choose the black one. Even if the black girl was a 7 vs a white 8, I'd choose the black girl since the one extra point on the white girl isn't worth dealing with all the social bullshit like disapproving family and such. Now if it was a white 8 vs a black 6...well sorry my sistas I might need to sell out, lol.

If I did have a mixed kid, I wouldn't raise him any different than I'd raise a fully black kid. Just raise him/her to be a decent human being and that their race isn't as important as their individual accomplishments. I'd also teach him that many will see him as "black" if he has any recognizable black ancestry and that will have social implications. Honestly though, I think EVERYONE should be aware of how race works in the real world, whether they are black or white.

[Timoteo]

(11-02-2011 08:39 PM)Hoover Wrote:  

Black guys here, if you're going to get married eventually, are you guys going to get married to a white woman?

If so, how will you go about raising the kids? That's another dimension to think about, teaching the kids about everything that's mentioned in this thread.

I think black men are like most men...they may date and fuck different women, but when it comes to marriage, they marry their own women. I can't envision marrying a white woman if I marry at all, because there are definitely stresses on the relationship other than the normal stresses that any couple go through. There's the issue of your families maybe not being all on-board. There's the issue of your interracial kids, and yes, teaching them about your culture as a black man, while balancing that with the respect they need to have for their mother and her family. There's the issue of them not belonging/identifying with classmates (blacks are more inclusive of biracials than other groups, but it's still can be difficult for biracials). If I ever got married, it would be to a black or latin woman.

[Gorton's Fisherman]

(11-02-2011 08:39 PM)Hoover Wrote:  

Black guys here, if you're going to get married eventually, are you guys going to get married to a white woman?

If so, how will you go about raising the kids? That's another dimension to think about, teaching the kids about everything that's mentioned in this thread.

Then Canada/UK/Oz here I come.

If the US can't get its head out of its ass in 2011, after nearly 50 years of blacks being (somewhat) seen as humans, then America needs to get bent. Real shit.

[Gorton's Fisherman]

(10-31-2011 10:28 PM)joehoya Wrote:  

(10-29-2011 08:42 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(10-29-2011 02:48 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

PPS: The most racism I've encountered are from light skinned mulattas who won't date blacks because to them it's "dating down". Usually those kinds of women live in Downtown Toronto and gold dig white males. I still can't crack that nut...pun...partially intended. Not impossible, just need a very watertight game.

I go to an Ivy school up here in the Northeastern USA, and this is the only place where I've run into this type of woman. In high school or off campus, I rarely see them, but every other girl here seems to think this way. Black men are bottom of the totem pole where I'm at, so it can be frustrating to deal with, especially when you know that most of the world outside that environment isn't like that.

Don't sweat it, man. This will COMPLETELY change a few years after you graduate. The reality is, while some of those light-skinned girls may get some white guy to date them/fuck them while in college, once they hit "the real world" that shit will stop with a quickness. The simple fact is that white dudes are not marrying black chicks (no matter how light) in any significant numbers. They don't have to, there are more than enough white women for them to chose from.

As one well educated black man to another, I cannot begin to explain to you how quickly the tables will turn just 5 years after undergrad. By the 10 year mark, it will be freakish. For starters, let me throw this number out to you. Black and Latina women are graduating at a rate of 2 to 1 compared to black and Latino men. I was a late adopter of facebook (I think I signed up a year or two ago). When I logged on and put my personal info in (school, current occupation), chicks I knew in college, high school, even GRAMMAR SCHOOL were hitting me up left and right.

Even better, the higher your academic/economic/social status the less competition you have amongst other black men, AND the more non-black women become open to you. I did the whole prep school/top tier (non Ivy) undergrad/Ivy Grad school thing and I can tell you that the experience in the working world is great, and it actually keeps getting better. My personal opinion is that no top tier black man should even consider marriage until at least 7 years after finishing undergrad, just so he can see what his options are.

I'm personally not interested to black/mulatto broads (or anyone) who would pass up smart brothas for poser thugs and white guys when they're teens and virgins. The only intentional leftovers I feast on are in refrigerators.

As for black men who are non-stereotypical and have a good job on their hands, I don't see the love for brothas from white (nor even Asian or Latina women), at least on the East Coast, much less in Washington DC proper. Maybe that's the case for the Western US. And as for black females, many of them who are in the professional class are still into dudes who pull off the "Hood Rap/BET Game" stitch.

For any non-ghetto black dude, I'd recommend going West (minus LA and SF) to not have a lop-sided disadvantage against you when it comes to banging chicks.

[Excelsior]

(11-02-2011 08:39 PM)Hoover Wrote:  

Black guys here, if you're going to get married eventually, are you guys going to get married to a white woman?

If so, how will you go about raising the kids? That's another dimension to think about, teaching the kids about everything that's mentioned in this thread.

You've hit upon one more big reason why I don't want to settle down(if I ever do) in the USA. Even if we were in an out of wedlock situation, I wouldn't want to sire a kid here.

I'm completely open to marrying a white girl, but if I did she would be European, Canadian, or Australian, and preferably not American. This is because I will want her to bare me plenty of children, and I don't want my kids dealing with American issues and growing up with them. This nation's racial baggage is some of the most extreme you'll find outside of South Africa (the rest of the Anglosphere and Europe doesn't even come close, I don't care what anyone says), and that creates a whole lot of problems. I've had to deal with these issues head on, but I'd like it if my kids wouldn't.

Even a non-white American wife would present some of these problems (read: my children would still be black in America), so I'm leaning away from marriage and kids in this country period.

[speakeasy]

I feel like as a black man in America, I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. Black women(in America) aren't my favorite. There are some I like and I'm not saying quality black American women don't exist, but when it comes to the combination of things I'm looking for e.g. the look, in good shape, no weave, no attitude, gentle and feminine, culturally well-rounded and open, I feel like the options are quite paltry. With white American women, it's somewhat better, but they are no savior either. Importantly for me, I can't get with some white girl who is not socially aware. The vast majority of white girls are not. I'm not about to wake up everyday next to some white woman who denies that white privilege exists. If she doesn't understand basic shit like that and how race effects me personally and her if she's with me, then I couldn't take her seriously. Which means there are very few white women I could take seriously, even if I can relate to them on other areas of life outside of race.

Like Athlone, I may eventually have to get out of dodge if I want something serious. Though not sure where yet. Even the black chics I've met from Europe I relate to WAY better than the ones that may have grew up right down the street from me in America. America is not a good place for black men(at least when it comes to ease of meeting quality women). If I do stay here for the long run, then I'll try my best to meet a girl in her mid to late 20s who is from abroad.

[Timoteo]

"If I do stay here for the long run, then I'll try my best to meet a girl in her mid to late 20s who is from abroad." speakeasy

Me and my closest boys preach this. It's not realistic for most to leave the country and settle somewhere else, so the next best option is to find a chick that wasn't born here and isn't infected yet. For dudes that travel, perhaps finding someone that already has hopes of coming to the US and cultivating the relationship leading up to her landing here.

[theIVth]

(10-23-2011 02:39 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

Moma,

You obviously didnt read the very next sentence / line.

Going off of the general publics perception of attractiveness there is FAR more hot light skinned women than dark skinned women. This is proven in the entertainment industry. This is not some opinion. Now whether the general publics view of what is attractive is actually attractive is an opinion. Not the reverse.

btw can you name some hot dark black skinned women in the entertainment industry? no one has been able to do so.

and even if you can find one. i can name 3 fine light - brown skinned women for every 1 dark black skinned female you name.

People have already posted pics of pretty women with an average African American complexion. You keep asking for pics of basically jet black/native Sudanese African women but that is not the average AA woman's complexion.

[JayMillz]

Post #123 said it all for me, "zero percent B"