[Kaligula]

(01-15-2019 12:19 AM)RawGod Wrote:  

Well, all globohomism of the victim aside, it seems it was just a random crazy and that neither right nor left will be able to make much out of it. Probably the biggest effect will be on security for politicians in Poland.

It is morning after in Poland and already prominent leftists are saying "It could have been anyone of us". So the Left will definitely take something out of it - namely the idea that all of them are in MORTAL danger because ANY rightist can be a crazy rightist with a weapon.
Since the 2010 Smolensk crash the Left has had lost the moral high ground in Poland and consequently has been in a dire need of martyrs. Now they have got the first one.

As a result, I expect even more divisions in Polish society than I observe now.

The President of Poland has decided that a day of Adamowicz funeral shall be an official day of national mourning. Adamowicz is the second single person in Poland after Pope John Paul II who got this honour, otherwise national mourning used to be only in a case of multiple casualties. Obviously the Right tries to placate the Left.
This is a bad decision of President Duda as inadvertently [really so???] it will help to create a martyr. Polish Right of PiS kind recently seems to be turning into something like American Cuckservatives.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(01-15-2019 12:10 AM)Higgs Bosun Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 11:57 PM)Geomann180 Wrote:  

Give Danzig back to Germany.

G

Why? I think the Kebabs will have enough German whores to rape even without adding another city into the equation. Germany should be good for raping and pillaging for at least the next 50 years, once they're done with it maybe we can talk again about "Danzig" but for now we good.

As for this globohomo mayor, wasn't it American Founding Fathers who said "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of traitors?" Ok, maybe not exactly that but personally I like this version better. Like Patton said, it's best have the enemy die for his cause rather than the other way around.

Yeah - Germans would open a bunch of refugee centers in the first year and flood the city with enrichments until they would have the same rape rate in Danzig than in the rest of Poland - 200 per year by strangers. They will throw in some knife murders in as well plus gang-rapes which are not happening at all.

Germany belongs to the globohomos and Antifa. And soon after it will be war with the Islamists if they are lucky.

[Kaligula]

Placating the Left goes on: the spokesman of the President Duda said that "the murder of Pawel Adamowicz was an attack against the entire political class of Poland, and an attack against the Polish state, too". And so it goes.

WTF?!

[david.garrett84]

Poland’s biggest political problem will come from university students who think the EU is fucking special because it gave them Erasmus semesters abroad.

Erasmus really does nothing for Poles, aside from polishing their English (get it? Haha, I’m so witty). I know law graduates who did Spanish law for a semester (why?), or business students who effectively did the same courses as back home, but this time in English in Lyon or in Bristol. Brussels-subsidized (so really German and British-funded) excess.

EU free handouts in this vein will continue because they are effective, turning gullible students into magpies pining for shiny things.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(01-15-2019 12:10 AM)Higgs Bosun Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 11:57 PM)Geomann180 Wrote:  

Give Danzig back to Germany.

G

Why? I think the Kebabs will have enough German whores to rape even without adding another city into the equation. Germany should be good for raping and pillaging for at least the next 50 years, once they're done with it maybe we can talk again about "Danzig" but for now we good.

As for this globohomo mayor, wasn't it American Founding Fathers who said "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of traitors?" Ok, maybe not exactly that but personally I like this version better. Like Patton said, it's best have the enemy die for his cause rather than the other way around.

We're not at open season yet.

The biggest problem is not finding people with the will to go all the way, and it's not even difficult to find people who are willing to die in the process as this guy surely must have expected he would. The issue is that people are not willing to undertake that sacrifice and risk if they expect that people will spit on their grave rather than build statues of them in town square.

Limp-dick civnatists will say "this is going too far". Meanwhile we get another dozen stories of people being raped and/or murdered by the human trash that the inhuman thralls like this Mayor are desperate to flood Europe with. Those lives are apparently not important.

The civnatist cucks would starve to death in their apartments if pussy-hatted protesters blockaded the exits "because violence is never the answer". They will literally march onto the cattle cars like good goys as long as they are given a lawful order to do so, and on top of that they will rat out any "lawbreakers" who try to dodge the Gestapo.

The reality is that the well-meaning patriot who did this wanted to be a hero but mostly just scored an own goal.

His Dear Mayor could have slipped in the shower or overdosed on sleeping pills or hanged himself or suffered any number of ignoble fates where Dear Mayor was not martyred in the process, but it's somewhat difficult to convince yourself to suffer risk and fear in the shadows, knowing that you will probably fail and in any case never be remembered fondly by your countrymen.

[Kaligula]

The intensity of the situation is slowly becoming unbearable to normies, at least some of them. It is just a recipe for further 'explosions', and it is not a first political murder/suicide in Poland in recent years, only the others were Left on Right, and not so high-profile.

Today is the day of funeral. Since yesterday there is national mourning in Poland, funeral music in the radio etc...
There is a subconscious attempt to make Right guilty, by calling the victim simply "the President", and talking about "the President's Death". In the Polish context it is of course reminder on the the First President of Poland after 1918, Narutowicz, who was shot to death on the day of his inauguration in 1922 by a member of ND party (National Democracy), a large right party, strongly opposing Pilsudski, who was a socialist. This is subtle, there are many less subtle attempts to make Right guilty of this death, by talking about "atmosphere of hate" allegedly created by Right, actually by the incessant clamour of left and liberals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassinat...Narutowicz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Narutowicz

Today I have been casually listening to a popular science hour on the state radio. The subject was religion in ancient Maya, Egyptian, Greek societies. After some introduction to the theme, everyone can call and ask a question. Suddenly a guy called and asked "Could you say something how did all those civilizations, Sumer, Egypt, Rome, fall? . Did they fall because of the corruption of secret police? Like I have been listening already a week how everybody is concerned about this funeral today, like this man was a kind of saint. Why should I care? What this is all about?". He sounded like a hard working business guy who suddenly realizes that maybe the Matrix is not real, gets angry, but also so overwhelmed with his suspicions that he starts to connect everything with everything. Typically Polish, he has charged "secret police" for unexpected circumstances and events. He was finally cut by a host with "This is not a time for personal remarks".

Of course, he did not get the answer from the experts in studio, just some loose remarks, like "The last who was concerned with such questions in history was Toynbee."

As a side comment on the context, Polish people are not really used to democracy in the sense that they are not used to long, intense political fight and strife . For propaganda reasons, since 1989 so called zgoda (agreement, unity) and compromise have been supposed to be the highest ideals of our democracy, and also traits of Polish national character, the traits which allegedly found expression in the 1989 transformation, its highest achievement being "bloodless" ("we are not those dirty, uncivilized Romanians ["Rumun" sounds a bit like "nigger" in USA] who shot people like Ceausescu, aren't we? We Poles are civilized Europeans!"). Unfortunately, most of the Polish believe this propaganda, to the extent that they charge Kaczynski with the crime of "dividing people": Poles are still rather naive when it comes to politics, which is rather a paradox, since it is a society with low social trust, one of the lowest in Europe (!), yet people offer often an unconditional allegiance to a chosen leader at the helm, Kaczynski or Tusk. Whatever, I have never heard about this serious crime of "dividing people" in any other political discourse than the Polish one. It almost seems like the free speech is a kind of temporary condition, only until "the division" is no more.
It seems that after 1989 the candy-like veneer of capitalism became also the candy-like veneer of democracy, which in this way became the aesthetic ideal, not the ethical one...

[david.garrett84]

If the cunts from PO win the next Presidential and/or Sejm elections, it will be because of this. This has definitely had some kind of permanent impact on 10% of the population, more than enough to win elections (Duda won in 2015 by something like 51.5%-48.5 over Komorowski).

I have never seen any NPC-like response in Poland similar to the outcries about Adamowicz's death. Here we have a man who would have gladly, if he could have, sent Poland down the same, self-hating dark path as Merkel in Germany. Thank Christ he was confined to Gdansk, a city which, due to its former existence as Danzig, had no authentically Polish soul for him to butt-fuck. A guy like him in Warsaw or Kraków would have spiritually raped a genuinely Polish city into the ground. Even Majchrowski, a nominal leftist, doesn't actually fuck Kraków around too much.

The only saving grace we have is that, by Western standards, 1/3 to 1/2 of PO voters are conservative. Poland is a bit of a misnomer as the rightwing party (PiS) is less free market than the leftwing one (PO) and there is a lot of common social ground shared between the two blocs' voters.

I had a look at all polls conducted for the 2019 Presidential election and Duda was winning all but two of them (95%+) in a hypothetical match-up with Tusk. I say now there's only a 55-45 chance Duda will beat Tusk and perhaps a 60-40 average chance he will beat any other PO contenders.

Poland's on the fucking precipice after this death in Gdansk. The death of Poland will be slow, yet whether it happens or not will largely be down to 2019's election cycle.

[Kaligula]

(01-19-2019 01:46 PM)david.garrett84 Wrote:  

If the cunts from PO win the next Presidential and/or Sejm elections, it will be because of this. This has definitely had some kind of permanent impact on 10% of the population, more than enough to win elections (Duda won in 2015 by something like 51.5%-48.5 over Komorowski).

I have never seen any NPC-like response in Poland similar to the outcries about Adamowicz's death. Here we have a man who would have gladly, if he could have, sent Poland down the same, self-hating dark path as Merkel in Germany. Thank Christ he was confined to Gdansk, a city which, due to its former existence as Danzig, had no authentically Polish soul for him to butt-fuck. A guy like him in Warsaw or Kraków would have spiritually raped a genuinely Polish city into the ground. Even Majchrowski, a nominal leftist, doesn't actually fuck Kraków around too much.

The only saving grace we have is that, by Western standards, 1/3 to 1/2 of PO voters are conservative. Poland is a bit of a misnomer as the rightwing party (PiS) is less free market than the leftwing one (PO) and there is a lot of common social ground shared between the two blocs' voters.

I had a look at all polls conducted for the 2019 Presidential election and Duda was winning all but two of them (95%+) in a hypothetical match-up with Tusk. I say now there's only a 55-45 chance Duda will beat Tusk and perhaps a 60-40 average chance he will beat any other PO contenders.

Poland's on the fucking precipice after this death in Gdansk. The death of Poland will be slow, yet whether it happens or not will largely be down to 2019's election cycle.

Duda is not so important, presidential elections are in 2020, the coming 2019 parliamentary elections are important, and PiS has a hair-thin majority now, just 5 MPs. The people will simply get wearied down till autumn with all these "signs of division" and PiS will lost.
Anyway, it was PiS that this week has almost forced upon everyone here a kind of worshipful veneration of Adamowicz. But Adamowicz was in opposition to PiS. I mean it is PiS that recently all the time tries to prove something, not someone else. Isn't that simply what we call supplicating? They should do be doing exactly the opposite, and be on the offensive.

As I said previously, PiS starts to look more and more like American cuckservatives, the only significant difference with PO being its stance on EU immigration quotas. However, recently during his visit to Poland, Salvini had a problem to be granted an audience with Kaczynski (well, he got it finally). In the wake of Brexit, PiS lost its head and does not know what to do. PiS ally, UK, is not there anymore, but Germany still answers Tusk calls. EU is Germany now, and Poland loves EU.
The only hope in Yellows Vests in France. Today in one of conservative newspapers, "Rzeczpospolita", I have read a long interview with Eric Zemmour, one of the main spokesmen for conservatism in France, who is lambasting both the Germans and the clientelism of French elites, claiming that "in France, supplicating Germany started already with Adolf Thiers in 1871". In case of regime change in France, there would be a possibility of French-Italian-Visegrad Group (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech Republic) anti-German coalition inside EU in order to re-balance EU after Brexit (France can be anti-German now because she does not need anymore to be anti-British. Otherwise, Germany rules.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

< PiS was a lucky stab of a party led by the Kaczynski twins who were actually basing their ideas on rabid anti-communist thinking, strong affiliation with the church and some conservative thinking.

The PO buttfuckers are not "libertarian" - they are EU-globalist-corporate-welfare traitors willing to sell off anything to major globalist enterprises while raping the people.

The party leader Kaczynski is now rumored to have cancer, they possibly murdered either his brother at Katyn who was the bigger danger because of being more healthy and more likeable, so after he is gone, then they can manipulate the rest behind the scenes. The other blokes can be bought off to a great degree.

The only thing that will stop too many rapefugee-invitations are the people themselves. They are not brainwashed to believe this Islamo-Africanophilia and self-hatred of Western civilization.

But we shall see - all White countries are on the chopping block and the PIS party is already infiltrated by the globohomos waiting for the end of the last Kaczynski. The other brother would have been a far greater danger to them possibly winning against the globalists for years and years. The closet gay (but not active and likely virgin for life) Kaczynski with his cat is soon gone I guess. That is what some conservative believing gays used to be - they suppressed their sexual instinct and became priests or asexuals. Either way - PiS is going to move closer to the traitors.

The only thing that can prevent too open borders is the effective murder, rape and terror rate of the new immigrants. There is a limit they can suppress, but I am sure that secret services are working overtime and likely arresting hundreds of wannabe-jihadists behind the scenes. We cannot have the enrichment bonanza stop anytime soon.

[Kaligula]

The other Kaczynski was a man of the people, right, not the cabinet politician like the one yet left (even if he has a cancer, at least he is clever enough not to undergo any operations or chemotherapy so it will drag on probably years and years yet). Unfortunately the dead one had quite a showy daughter, Maria, who is stupid enough to think that she be like Polish Indira Gandhi. Moreover, she loves conmen - I think that she has already a fourth husband! So much for transmission of conservatism in Kaczynski family. Luckily, Jaroslaw put her aside recently as he could not get rid of her ex-husbands always trailing her shadow with their white collar crimes....
Roman style adult adoption would make a wonder for Jaroslaw Kaczynski: he could get a worthy son without having a single sexual intercourse.

PO are just grafters, who turn into graft everything they touch, even the few good ideas from EU. Yet during Tusk government, EU tried to force Poland to build some railways, for diversification, sustainability and ecology, you know, but Tusk went to Brussel and had the subvention purpose changed for roads, so his colleagues could still continue with building the most expensive highways (!) in the entire EU.

As for Poland itself, it is definitely to weak to be a kernel of any political force in EU. We are not able even to keep order in Visegrad Group. Last year when Poland started to voice her reflections about war reparations from Germany, suddenly Czech Republic officially stated that they do not want any reparations for WWII from Germans and the matter is "settled and closed". Right, Czech Republic was not really destroyed, but did they need to say that at that very moment? What about just keeping silent? We looked ridiculous standing there together with Greece and Namibia (coalition of losers and oddballs, you could say), when Germany and Czech Republic were saying "you guys always yapping about the past, what about some sacrifices for our great future together?". However, I have read that Italy considered asking for reparations too, but it seems that they have finally realized that well, you guys can't be on the both sides of the bet. Anyway, Italy does not have a reputation to be a reliable ally (recently for Muammar Gadaffi), so if France doesn't flip, we are preparing to be a German colony, maybe an upgraded Greece (tax system does function better in Poland). Alternatively, we could leave EU and became upgraded Ukraine under the auspices of USA and Israel; however that is very unlikely. I do not think that even forcing refugees unto Poland could break the Polish love for EU. Moreover, Poland is large country, so for the time being it would be rather easy to hide even several thousands of refugees. There is yet a long way for them to become so visible like in the West. Only a financial crisis like in Greece could separate Poland from EU. It will of course finally happen - I think in max 10 years - but then it will be too late for any meaningful decisions.

[Kaligula]

As a memento, the titles of articles in today's special edition of "Gazeta Wyborcza", the main opposition newspaper and the mainstay of Polish liberalism and progressivism. So you will know how reeducation in Poland looks like:

Możemy uczynić wiele dobra: We can do a lot of good.
Piąte: nie zabijaj. Czy nam się uda? The fifth: Thou shall not kill. Will we manage?
Czy Państwo Polscy przyjdą na terapię? Will Mr and Mrs Polish come to the therapy?
Skąd w nas tyle nienawisci? Where does this great hate inside us come from?
Walczysz z potworem? Tylko sam się nim nie stan. Do you fight with a monster? Be careful not to become like him.
Zdrowy wiatr od morza. Healthy wind comes from the sea.
Miasto wszystkich kobiet. The city of all women.


And now imagine that there are many people who read such things seriously and not as a satire!
Now you understand the mechanism of cognitive dissonance in Polish society.
By the way, in the Polish state radio now a broadcast devoted to the death of Socrates. The dangers of Caligula [me???!] and Hitler are being discussed at the moment, it seems they tend to appear when we are not happy.
Shall I associate Paweł Adamowicz with Socrates?! Apparently so! Adamowicz must have been a very clever man, unjustly lynched
by the blood-thirsty mobs of "democracy"! "Democracy" does not live according to the moral law, only clever men like Socrates and Adamowicz do.

[Higgs Bosun]

@Kaligula

Great insight. I think you characterized the Polish character very well. There is an unfortunate thirst among Poles for empty "intellectualism" that I fear is extremely ripe for (((cucking))). Poland's urban elites have some kind of inferiority complex to Western Europe and are desperate to ape the POZZ emanating from the West in a pathetic attempt to appear "sophisticated."

Why anyone would have an inferiority complex to cucks who let their streets be controlled, and their own teenage daughters groomed and raped, by a tiny minority of swarthy invaders is beyond me, but it is what it is. Since Poland and the rest of Eastern Europe are still in the beginning of the beginning stage of demographic transformation I think they may possibly survive in the medium term (ie the effective lifetimes of us on this forum), but the long term prospects of their survival as a free race are very poor.

You mentioned that the State Media is jumping on this subversive fake martyrdom narrative. Do you have any insight as to the reason for this? Since PIS has been in power for quite a long time now, I would have imagined they'd have been able to achieve at least a semblance of impartiality in the State Media, but from what you are saying it appears as if even the propaganda organs nominally under PIS control are still completely leftist-converged?

[Subtext]

(01-15-2019 12:10 AM)Higgs Bosun Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 11:57 PM)Geomann180 Wrote:  

Give Danzig back to Germany.

G

Why? I think the Kebabs will have enough German whores to rape even without adding another city into the equation. Germany should be good for raping and pillaging for at least the next 50 years, once they're done with it maybe we can talk again about "Danzig" but for now we good.

As for this globohomo mayor, wasn't it American Founding Fathers who said "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of traitors?" Ok, maybe not exactly that but personally I like this version better. Like Patton said, it's best have the enemy die for his cause rather than the other way around.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. ---Thomas Jefferson

Rest his blessed soul.

[Higgs Bosun]

(01-15-2019 10:18 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(01-15-2019 12:10 AM)Higgs Bosun Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 11:57 PM)Geomann180 Wrote:  

Give Danzig back to Germany.

G

Why? I think the Kebabs will have enough German whores to rape even without adding another city into the equation. Germany should be good for raping and pillaging for at least the next 50 years, once they're done with it maybe we can talk again about "Danzig" but for now we good.

As for this globohomo mayor, wasn't it American Founding Fathers who said "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of traitors?" Ok, maybe not exactly that but personally I like this version better. Like Patton said, it's best have the enemy die for his cause rather than the other way around.

We're not at open season yet.

The biggest problem is not finding people with the will to go all the way, and it's not even difficult to find people who are willing to die in the process as this guy surely must have expected he would. The issue is that people are not willing to undertake that sacrifice and risk if they expect that people will spit on their grave rather than build statues of them in town square.

Limp-dick civnatists will say "this is going too far". Meanwhile we get another dozen stories of people being raped and/or murdered by the human trash that the inhuman thralls like this Mayor are desperate to flood Europe with. Those lives are apparently not important.

The civnatist cucks would starve to death in their apartments if pussy-hatted protesters blockaded the exits "because violence is never the answer". They will literally march onto the cattle cars like good goys as long as they are given a lawful order to do so, and on top of that they will rat out any "lawbreakers" who try to dodge the Gestapo.

The reality is that the well-meaning patriot who did this wanted to be a hero but mostly just scored an own goal.

His Dear Mayor could have slipped in the shower or overdosed on sleeping pills or hanged himself or suffered any number of ignoble fates where Dear Mayor was not martyred in the process, but it's somewhat difficult to convince yourself to suffer risk and fear in the shadows, knowing that you will probably fail and in any case never be remembered fondly by your countrymen.

I did not mean to imply that going out and killing politicians is the correct thing to do. In fact, I'm of the mindset that I personally wouldn't raise a finger even if it were "open season" so to speak. We're not in a enemy at the gates, all men to the wall scenario. The enemy is literally our own people and their slavish, cucked minds. If whites are killed and/or enslaved, it will be because they actively aided and abetted the machinations that led them there.

If open season and its accompanying violence and uncertainty of outcome comes, I surely hope I will find a way to ride it out poolside somewhere rather than put my own hide at risk. Some might think this is evidence of cowardice, but in truth it is just evidence of hate. I fucking hate the pozzed subhumans who happen to be members of my tribe and can't stand the thought of putting life and limb in danger fighting for them in 20XX, knowing that in 2019 these very same people would happily ruin my life if they knew I wasn't a servile cuck just like them.

Ultimately, if violence comes, the only thing that might motivate me to fight (aside from an outright inability to run and hide, lol) is hate for the enemy and desire to kill them, rather than love for "my" people and desire to save them. The way I see it now though, I place more value on my own life than I do on getting revenge on the invaders and subversives, so putting myself in harms way to fight in a struggle "my" side brought on itself and for which I had zero personal culpability would be stupid.

All of which is to say, I do not advocate anyone here or anywhere else start going rogue and killing random traitors. It's not effective, it's not personally worth it, and it's just outright wrong for us who are not cucks to throw away our lives for the sake of the great mass of subhumans happily marching towards slavery while calling us racists, fascists, bigots, etc. On the other hand though, if you do see a traitor meeting a well deserved end, there is no point to clutch your pearls either. Just let yourself enjoy the brief fleeting glimmer of justice in a world otherwise almost totally bereft of it.

[Waqqle]

Guy probably wanted to die and just figured he would put down at least one normally untouchable person on his way out of this world.

[Kaligula]

(01-19-2019 09:26 PM)Higgs Bosun Wrote:  

@Kaligula

Great insight. I think you characterized the Polish character very well. There is an unfortunate thirst among Poles for empty "intellectualism" that I fear is extremely ripe for (((cucking))). Poland's urban elites have some kind of inferiority complex to Western Europe and are desperate to ape the POZZ emanating from the West in a pathetic attempt to appear "sophisticated."


You mentioned that the State Media is jumping on this subversive fake martyrdom narrative. Do you have any insight as to the reason for this? Since PIS has been in power for quite a long time now, I would have imagined they'd have been able to achieve at least a semblance of impartiality in the State Media, but from what you are saying it appears as if even the propaganda organs nominally under PIS control are still completely leftist-converged?

PiS is a kind of old timers party, and so they think that TV is the most important medium in the world, and they did purge TV. They did not purge radio as much, but radio has been always less political than TV in Poland.
However, I do not have TV set anymore, I listen mainly to radio, in Poland to State Radio Program 2. It is mainly classical music and a bit of culture. News only twice a day (!). It is mostly neutral politically. As much as it is sad, yesterday it was mainly listeners calling the studio that were driving the hysteria, not the hosts. It shows how Polish intelligentsia is cucked, yes.
How did this happen? Polish inferiority complex in the wake of tragic history, especially WW2, when we were on the side of winners, but actually we lost the war in the most horrible way. For Poles, everything that happened after 1989 is a kind of rightful compensation, as "we are taking our due place in Europe". There is a German word that express this phenomenon very well, Geltungdrang. To take our right place in Europe, we of course must worship Europe, which we duly do. Contrary to Poles own self-picture as a nation of idealists, they are very materialistic, worshiping West European affluence. Polish women have worshipped Western men and dreamt about marrying "zagraniczniak" (a foreigner in Polish slang), except the new generation born after 1989. After EU accession, it was mainly the Polish who started emigrate en masse to West Europe, not Czechs, not Hungarians, not Slovaks. This is the answer for Roosh confusion regarding changes in Polish women last years: they are becoming what they want to be, the seeds, the aspirations were always there.
Sometimes I think that even Belarus has more dignity than we have (before the EU accession referendum, the common propaganda meme was "Do we want to be Belarus or Europe?": we are a bit racist, just mainly towards East Slavs, not blacks). We are a nation of greedy peasants indeed. But we think we are a nation of freedom-loving noble fighters.
But we are greedy: people will sometimes cheat you in your own family, as it happened in mine.

We do not see all these facts as an independent political situation in its own right as it should be. The Poles live in the manichean world of Right and Wrong which started in 18th century with partitions of Poland. I suppose it is what happens when you live in the glory of the past, as it is really hard to detach yourself. It all means that the moment Polish economy tanks, PiS will automatically be seen as "cheaters" and will lose power. This is probably why Kaczynski, against a strong opposition in his own party, put at the helm now this banker guy, Morawiecki, since otherwise understanding of economy is quite low in Poland. Like in pick up, both Kaczynski and Morawiecki are just better than anyone else, but no way they are the best: great, visionary leaders. The fact that Kaczynski is so hated is a sign how mediocre and collectivist Polish society actually is: jealous, greedy peasants they are. On the other hand, it is still a very cohesive society, with high social pressure, which means it is still very hard to achieve a real understanding of the situation. Personally I know only one person, a guy, of course, who thinks like me...

[Kaligula]

(01-19-2019 09:26 PM)Higgs Bosun Wrote:  

@Kaligula


You mentioned that the State Media is jumping on this subversive fake martyrdom narrative. Do you have any insight as to the reason for this? Since PIS has been in power for quite a long time now, I would have imagined they'd have been able to achieve at least a semblance of impartiality in the State Media, but from what you are saying it appears as if even the propaganda organs nominally under PIS control are still completely leftist-converged?

I have thought about this question too.
A short answer is: because PiS buys into the great national narration of
zgoda/reconciliation (see my post above). Therefore they have to pretend that what happened in Gdańsk was a total accident and thus kind of go on the same bandwagon (great, great tragedy) with opposition in this case, the only difference being that PiS holds to "accident" version, and opposition to "hate speech outcome". In my opinion, PiS strategy now is a strategy of mimicry: they want to make an impression that they are not really divisive (which is a narration of opposition) by avoiding conflict and to win elections, riding growth of economy , and not anymore "law and justice", as the party name promises.
This is totally different to what they preached in the last elections, when they wanted "to drain a swamp" Trump likewise. They did win last time, so why they have changed now, I do not know. This is a great mystery. But, well, ask Trump why the swamp is still full of very lively bubbling. Maybe we can learn something in Poland from him; we still trust in America here.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

< Yeah - the older generation of Poles have an inferiority complex mostly fostered by the communist times and their various lack of wealth and prosperity. It's probably also a remainder of times before the war as well.

Obviously any inferiority complex - even an economic nowadays is ridiculous. Anyone with 2 pea-brains can make 1000EUR in Poland too, all without having to compete with mass migration for inflated real estate prices, without having to fear the rape and murder of his children or his woman. Sure - the jobs making 3000EUR per month are rare, but I started to see French, German and Austrian guys working in Warsaw making barely 1500EUR and they still prefer living there while they could make double or triple in France. But of course double in Paris is still shit, since you need serious dough to isolate yourself from the diversity.

Generation Z in Poland has no inferiority complex whatsoever and even the Millennials don't.

[Kaligula]

The only alternative strategy for PiS I could think about would be trying to kind of minimize the incident by respectfully diminishing Paweł Adamowicz stature, for example saying things like that:

"Paweł Adamowicz's death should serve as a reminder for everyone that every Polish citizen can be called to sacrifice his/her own life for Poland. Paweł Adamowicz was killed during fulfilling his duties as a mayor of Gdańsk. Paweł Adamowicz joined milions of Poles who sacrificed their lifes for Poland. He is in a good company now. We shall remember him as we remember everyone of these milions."

[Kaligula]

(01-20-2019 10:15 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  

< Yeah - the older generation of Poles have an inferiority complex mostly fostered by the communist times and their various lack of wealth and prosperity. It's probably also a remainder of times before the war as well.

Obviously any inferiority complex - even an economic nowadays is ridiculous. Anyone with 2 pea-brains can make 1000EUR in Poland too, all without having to compete with mass migration for inflated real estate prices, without having to fear the rape and murder of his children or his woman. Sure - the jobs making 3000EUR per month are rare, but I started to see French, German and Austrian guys working in Warsaw making barely 1500EUR and they still prefer living there while they could make double or triple in France. But of course double in Paris is still shit, since you need serious dough to isolate yourself from the diversity.

Generation Z in Poland has no inferiority complex whatsoever and even the Millennials don't.

This is not exactly true because in big cities like Warsaw rents are almost the same as in the West Europe; prepare yourself to pay at least 500 EUR for rent in Warsaw.

With a pea brain, 1000 EUR netto in small cities is not true. 700 EUR is more realistic.

I am a Millenial, so I will disagree. Once upon a time we did think that everything in West was somehow better for everyone, many still do. Otherwise, there would not have been such a great emigration out of Poland after Poland's EU accession. Maybe you take a kind of brashness, being cheeky, for the lack of sense of inferiority; they are not the same.

Generation Z do not have the same candy picture of the West which previous generations had, but they do have some inferiority complex. Many of them still prefer to earn more than 700 EUR, and they go to work abroad for some time. A person that does that feels some inferiority since it is not like things should be. You should have a nice job in your town. Often they have left their crews behind, they do not like it; they would prefer to stay in Poland. I think that they have a deeper sense of community than Millenials. Personally, it is easier for me to talk with them about many things than with Millenials, they are ready to listen and to learn; Millenials are still extremely invested in their candy-like dreams. From Z I have got respect for understanding things, but from Millenials just a label of "pessimist".

Moreover, constant pounding we are getting from EU for this and that provides for continuation of inferiority complex on other grounds, since everyone knows that a lot of these things we are lambasted for are simply not true. For example, even my leftist friends privately agree that justice system in Poland is really corrupt and needs reforming.
It might be that Poles love EU so much that they will finally vote Kaczyński party out of office, but even then they would know that all that was simply not fair and they were browbeaten.

[Kaligula]

Polish right-wing celebrity, Wojciech Cejrowski, summed up the situation pretty well, saying that "Paweł Adamowicz death is celebrated as if he were Joseph Stalin, and Poland still a communist country"

In other news, the security chef of the charity event have just been arrested on the charges of obstructing justice, witness blackmailing, and false testimony, and now some voices even say that this assassination may not have been an entirely spontaneous and accidental event.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(01-20-2019 11:01 AM)Kaligula Wrote:  

(01-20-2019 10:15 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  

< Yeah - the older generation of Poles have an inferiority complex mostly fostered by the communist times and their various lack of wealth and prosperity. It's probably also a remainder of times before the war as well.

Obviously any inferiority complex - even an economic nowadays is ridiculous. Anyone with 2 pea-brains can make 1000EUR in Poland too, all without having to compete with mass migration for inflated real estate prices, without having to fear the rape and murder of his children or his woman. Sure - the jobs making 3000EUR per month are rare, but I started to see French, German and Austrian guys working in Warsaw making barely 1500EUR and they still prefer living there while they could make double or triple in France. But of course double in Paris is still shit, since you need serious dough to isolate yourself from the diversity.

Generation Z in Poland has no inferiority complex whatsoever and even the Millennials don't.

This is not exactly true because in big cities like Warsaw rents are almost the same as in the West Europe; prepare yourself to pay at least 500 EUR for rent in Warsaw.

With a pea brain, 1000 EUR netto in small cities is not true. 700 EUR is more realistic.

I am a Millenial, so I will disagree. Once upon a time we did think that everything in West was somehow better for everyone, many still do. Otherwise, there would not have been such a great emigration out of Poland after Poland's EU accession. Maybe you take a kind of brashness, being cheeky, for the lack of sense of inferiority; they are not the same.

Generation Z do not have the same candy picture of the West which previous generations had, but they do have some inferiority complex. Many of them still prefer to earn more than 700 EUR, and they go to work abroad for some time. A person that does that feels some inferiority since it is not like things should be. You should have a nice job in your town. Often they have left their crews behind, they do not like it; they would prefer to stay in Poland. I think that they have a deeper sense of community than Millenials. Personally, it is easier for me to talk with them about many things than with Millenials, they are ready to listen and to learn; Millenials are still extremely invested in their candy-like dreams. From Z I have got respect for understanding things, but from Millenials just a label of "pessimist".

Moreover, constant pounding we are getting from EU for this and that provides for continuation of inferiority complex on other grounds, since everyone knows that a lot of these things we are lambasted for are simply not true. For example, even my leftist friends privately agree that justice system in Poland is really corrupt and needs reforming.
It might be that Poles love EU so much that they will finally vote Kaczyński party out of office, but even then they would know that all that was simply not fair and they were browbeaten.

No - income differential is still high. It's even high when compared from Austria to Switzerland. Millions of Germans would flood Switzerland if they opened the borders.

Incomes are of course low in Poland, but let me tell you this:

700 EUR per person is 1400 EUR per couple. After 2 years you can buy an apartment which is of higher quality often in the newly constructed areas. You can buy 50m2 for 70.000EUR and pay it back in the next 25-30 years. The mortgage will come down to 500EUR and you still have 900EUR left for car and living costs. It's enough to live off due to the non-inflated real estate market and the overall lower costs of living. That is why I met actual French guys working for 1200 EUR in Warsaw. A waitress can make 2400EUR on tips which the employers misused sometimes paying them close to nothing on hourly wages.

There are still many people working for 400-500EUR, but even they survive, rent one room and have money to spare for travel. The guys moving abroad only have a markedly different lifestyle if they have an excellent education, but guess what - as an MD, engineer, real estate agent you can make 5000EUR+ with very limited expenses. Working holidays are not comparable to actually living in a country like Germany. If they earn 1400EUR in Germany which is now normal, then they can save some 200EUR per month. I met guys working in retail in Poland making 450EUR and they saved 150 EUR of that for travel.

The economic pressure also has some positive aspects as women are more likely to bond faster - the cock-hopping of the Western woman is very limited to her younger years or the quasi-hookers. Most try to nab a dependable man, many find their future partner during their student years, because the economic situation necessitates for them to settle down much sooner. With higher wages many women would ride the carousel up to their 30s like in the West. Like I heard from 36yo Swiss women: "I still have time to find my good-looking millionaire!"

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(01-22-2019 05:49 AM)Kaligula Wrote:  

Polish right-wing celebrity, Wojciech Cejrowski, summed up the situation pretty well, saying that "Paweł Adamowicz death is celebrated as if he were Joseph Stalin, and Poland still a communist country"

In other news, the security chef of the charity event have just been arrested on the charges of obstructing justice, witness blackmailing, and false testimony, and now some voices even say that this assassination may not have been an entirely spontaneous and accidental event.

The entire event looked fishy to me. The guy entered the backstage with a security tag, he calmly stabbed the mayor, then waltzed around calmly with arms raised. He was the polar opposite of a guy suffering from various psychological issues.

It would not surprise me if some agencies hadn't hired him to do the deed. But of course we will never know the full truth.

And even if he was some random crazy person, so what? That shit happens in the safest country on Earth - Japan - as well. Poland is now the second safest in the world according to OECD. It's sad for the family unless it was all a stint to win the next elections and the guy is now living in Argentina.

[Kaligula]

(01-22-2019 06:38 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 05:49 AM)Kaligula Wrote:  

Polish right-wing celebrity, Wojciech Cejrowski, summed up the situation pretty well, saying that "Paweł Adamowicz death is celebrated as if he were Joseph Stalin, and Poland still a communist country"

In other news, the security chef of the charity event have just been arrested on the charges of obstructing justice, witness blackmailing, and false testimony, and now some voices even say that this assassination may not have been an entirely spontaneous and accidental event.

The entire event looked fishy to me. The guy entered the backstage with a security tag, he calmly stabbed the mayor, then waltzed around calmly with arms raised. He was the polar opposite of a guy suffering from various psychological issues.

It would not surprise me if some agencies hadn't hired him to do the deed. But of course we will never know the full truth.

And even if he was some random crazy person, so what? That shit happens in the safest country on Earth - Japan - as well. Poland is now the second safest in the world according to OECD. It's sad for the family unless it was all a stint to win the next elections and the guy is now living in Argentina.

Yeah, the long triumph gesture after the assassination was especially bizarre....First, how already at this moment he could have been so sure that "mission accomplished"? Only if he had been trained to know... And it was quite a precise attack, since Adamowicz died the day after in a hospital. However, no signs of a mad fury which would have killed the victim on the spot, just...professionalism.

Second, a gesture for whom? It kinda looked as a sign for someone, as if the assassin's true concern was actually located FAR AWAY from the stage.

As for the family, if this really happened to be a directed assassination, than I suppose leftist themselves should start feeling threatened, as they would have to realize that even the high-ranking ones are just sacrificial pawns....
Well, of course they would try to redirect, that "PiS ordered", but still cui bono question would remain, and the answer cannot be PiS.

[Kaligula]

(01-22-2019 06:32 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  

(01-20-2019 11:01 AM)Kaligula Wrote:  

(01-20-2019 10:15 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  

< Yeah - the older generation of Poles have an inferiority complex mostly fostered by the communist times and their various lack of wealth and prosperity. It's probably also a remainder of times before the war as well.

Obviously any inferiority complex - even an economic nowadays is ridiculous. Anyone with 2 pea-brains can make 1000EUR in Poland too, all without having to compete with mass migration for inflated real estate prices, without having to fear the rape and murder of his children or his woman. Sure - the jobs making 3000EUR per month are rare, but I started to see French, German and Austrian guys working in Warsaw making barely 1500EUR and they still prefer living there while they could make double or triple in France. But of course double in Paris is still shit, since you need serious dough to isolate yourself from the diversity.

Generation Z in Poland has no inferiority complex whatsoever and even the Millennials don't.

This is not exactly true because in big cities like Warsaw rents are almost the same as in the West Europe; prepare yourself to pay at least 500 EUR for rent in Warsaw.

With a pea brain, 1000 EUR netto in small cities is not true. 700 EUR is more realistic.

I am a Millenial, so I will disagree. Once upon a time we did think that everything in West was somehow better for everyone, many still do. Otherwise, there would not have been such a great emigration out of Poland after Poland's EU accession. Maybe you take a kind of brashness, being cheeky, for the lack of sense of inferiority; they are not the same.

Generation Z do not have the same candy picture of the West which previous generations had, but they do have some inferiority complex. Many of them still prefer to earn more than 700 EUR, and they go to work abroad for some time. A person that does that feels some inferiority since it is not like things should be. You should have a nice job in your town. Often they have left their crews behind, they do not like it; they would prefer to stay in Poland. I think that they have a deeper sense of community than Millenials. Personally, it is easier for me to talk with them about many things than with Millenials, they are ready to listen and to learn; Millenials are still extremely invested in their candy-like dreams. From Z I have got respect for understanding things, but from Millenials just a label of "pessimist".

Moreover, constant pounding we are getting from EU for this and that provides for continuation of inferiority complex on other grounds, since everyone knows that a lot of these things we are lambasted for are simply not true. For example, even my leftist friends privately agree that justice system in Poland is really corrupt and needs reforming.
It might be that Poles love EU so much that they will finally vote Kaczyński party out of office, but even then they would know that all that was simply not fair and they were browbeaten.

No - income differential is still high. It's even high when compared from Austria to Switzerland. Millions of Germans would flood Switzerland if they opened the borders.

Incomes are of course low in Poland, but let me tell you this:

700 EUR per person is 1400 EUR per couple. After 2 years you can buy an apartment which is of higher quality often in the newly constructed areas. You can buy 50m2 for 70.000EUR and pay it back in the next 25-30 years. The mortgage will come down to 500EUR and you still have 900EUR left for car and living costs. It's enough to live off due to the non-inflated real estate market and the overall lower costs of living. That is why I met actual French guys working for 1200 EUR in Warsaw. A waitress can make 2400EUR on tips which the employers misused sometimes paying them close to nothing on hourly wages.

There are still many people working for 400-500EUR, but even they survive, rent one room and have money to spare for travel. The guys moving abroad only have a markedly different lifestyle if they have an excellent education, but guess what - as an MD, engineer, real estate agent you can make 5000EUR+ with very limited expenses. Working holidays are not comparable to actually living in a country like Germany. If they earn 1400EUR in Germany which is now normal, then they can save some 200EUR per month. I met guys working in retail in Poland making 450EUR and they saved 150 EUR of that for travel.

The economic pressure also has some positive aspects as women are more likely to bond faster - the cock-hopping of the Western woman is very limited to her younger years or the quasi-hookers. Most try to nab a dependable man, many find their future partner during their student years, because the economic situation necessitates for them to settle down much sooner. With higher wages many women would ride the carousel up to their 30s like in the West. Like I heard from 36yo Swiss women: "I still have time to find my good-looking millionaire!"

You are right concerning waiters' tips in WARSAW, I have a friend who works as a university lecturer but still keeps his old work in a restaurant, just for tips. However, it does not happen in every restaurant, even in Warsaw.

I would dispute whether the real estate market is not inflated, it is actually clogged by a huge amount of apartments (~3 millions!) that were sold on CHF-indexed mortgages to financially illiterate but greedy Poles. I remember trying to warn my friends on CHF-indexing point, just to be laughed at; I have then learnt that people will not take advice from you if you don't share their lifestyle. Due to the sunk costs people now do not want to sell those apartments at market price, which is much lower than the value of credit. And, well, in Poland the credit refinancing market has not yet really developed. That means there is little liquidity in the real estate market and you are still supposed to buy new apartments for prices higher than the overall market situation would suggest. Really, Poland, like Spain, decided for the real estate driven economy, financed by jobs in different outsourcing centers aka service economy. No wonder developers & bankers rule Poland. I suppose the landing will be even harder than in Spain, since we do not have tourism industry....


The mortgage is what nowadays keeps a lot of marriages going. The last issue of "Wysokie Obcasy", the liberal "Gazeta Wyborcza" magazine for women, has a long article (Rozwód z kredytem. Divorce with a morgage.) devoted to this currently most serious calamity that descended upon the liberal Polish women. Vae feminae!
However, it does show that Poland is still not an affluent society since the crux of the problem lies in the impossibility of paying the other side the half of the apartment value (add to that the impossibility of selling the apartment without loss to the original price), which simply means that for many people those over-priced apartments are the only substantial property they have.

In CE, such a real estate boom happened only in Poland and Hungary, but Hungarians were lucky to index rather to JPY than CHF, later they were even more lucky when Orban forced banks to get rid of indexing and to revalue mortgages in HUF (Hungarian forints). In Poland, banks & developers are too strong. For many, this is also a kind of moral problem (known as moral hazard): should the state actually bail out those creditors?

There are 3 millions of young people with their future taken away by their unlucky mortgages, and they have not been able to mount any serious protests whatsoever, except a few anemic demonstrations. So docile Poles actually are! Almost like Germans... Compare that to the French, who now are holding massive protests due to the fuel tax....