[docdrops]

This question is not even about being a Westerner and automatically having value in places like Eastern Europe and Latin America, it's about something that I have noticed as I have travelled.

AMERICAN GIRLS ARE WAYYYY TOO PICKY.

Yes old theme, roosh has talked about it, but still true.

Recently got back from Dominican Republic, and with my short stay I was able to pull a pretty girl with a FAT ASS with minimal effort ( no pay either just so we are clear). This girl is probably a strong universal 7 ( 8 for my standards because her booty was unbelievable, and I am an ass man to death). I was actually surprised at how little effort I had to put in, at the same time be able to have a way better conversation with my broken spanish and make a more genuine connection.

I'm a decent looking guy with low-intermediate game, and I usually am able to pull 5-6s on a regular basis in the city I live in the USA. Thing is, I have to put a lot more effort into the american girls without even half of the return. I do plan on travelling more in the future, once I have an income that can support a 6 month- year stay, but I do have a question.

For guys who are more experienced travelers than I am, How much hotter are the girls in foreign countries that you are able pull? I'm looking at Latin America, Eastern Europe, and Southeast Asia ( those seem to be the most frequented to places in these forums). What could this be due to? An abundance of hotter girls in those countries? Girls not being as picky and brainwashed as western girls? Both?

Going to Brazil soon with a few buddies, Set my tinder to Rio and was surprised at how hot the girls I was matching with in Rio were.

[scotian]

It’s not a great idea to make travel plans based on Tinder matches.

[Pokerbaby]

Much hotter, I was 42 when I was living in Poland and could pass for maybe 35. I used to lie and say 35. I pulled a really nice Polish girl aged 20, I'd say solid 7, another girl 7.5 and then a 26 year old 8. I was working on a 9. I thought I was going to seal the deal but she kept playing mind games with me and I gave up.

Back in Toronto.. Forgetaboutit. I can maybe pull a 5 or a 6 and a 5 or a 6 around 35. Can't pull a 7+, under 30 years old.

Then again i don't have one friend in Toronto who pulled off a girl of higher standing, though Toronto does have tons of pretty girls.

[pancakemouse]

I'm a male of 5.5/6 attractiveness.

In the US I fuck 6.5s. In Latin America (Mexico, Guatemala, Dominican Republic, Argentina are ones I've been to so far) I fuck 6.5s to 7.5s.

So I'd say about the same or a point higher.

The forum sex tourism myth is "omg brah you're gonna be able to get 9s because of your value".

Nah. Doesn't work like that.

[docdrops]

(12-20-2018 09:15 PM)scotian Wrote:  

It’s not a great idea to make travel plans based on Tinder matches.

Never said that we we're going because of Tinder. We are going because of Copa America, but will game outside of that.

[CleanSlate]

Interestingly enough, I realized that my personal rating scales shifted 1-2 points to the left after spending more time abroad.

Before I went abroad, I rated the girls I was banging at between 5 and 7. But now, after three years abroad, as I look back, those girls were actually more like 4 or 5. When I first started banging foreign girls, I would inflate their ratings in my mind and call them 8s at first, when they were actually 6s or 7s.

It's an adjustment once you bang a few girls in foreign countries, and you won't want to go back to the West because you just won't see them -- and rate them -- the same way as before.

[Coke Zero Addict]

I'm obese (only fat people drink diet coke!) and am able to sleep with 7s and the occasional 8 nearly every month in Asia. Back in the west I'd get pretty much nothing. Surely not any girl that was out of my 'league'. The caveat is I'm tall and have a decent face.

I'm looking to try my hand at the FSU or Russia next year and see if I can replicate the same results.

[scotian]

^Why don’t you try losing weight?

[MongolianAbroad]

(12-20-2018 10:55 PM)Coke Zero Addict Wrote:  

I'm obese (only fat people drink diet coke!) and am able to sleep with 7s and the occasional 8 nearly every month in Asia. Back in the west I'd get pretty much nothing. Surely not any girl that was out of my 'league'. The caveat is I'm tall and have a decent face.

I'm looking to try my hand at the FSU or Russia next year and see if I can replicate the same results.

That's gross, dude.

You're convincing girls to fuck an obese dude.

[CleanSlate]

Also, it's not just about looks and the hotness. As we all know, the difference between attitude and temperament between western and non-western girls is absolutely MASSIVE. Using only looks as a basis for comparison only leads to selling ourselves short, and giving western girls too much credit.

[MongolianAbroad]

(12-20-2018 11:37 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

Also, it's not just about looks and the hotness. As we all know, the difference between attitude and temperament between western and non-western girls is absolutely MASSIVE. Using only looks as a basis for comparison only leads to selling ourselves short, and giving western girls too much credit.

This is a huge issue that unfortunately takes most men into their 30's to wrap their heads around, if they ever even manage it.

Lots of guys ruin their lives due to chasing a 7+ girl who's a 2 or 3 in values, simply because they use the popular, one dimensional, 1-10 rating system, versus a two dimensional one that takes values into account.

Probably worthy of its own thread, maybe I'll start that thread at some point.

[jselysianeagle]

Generally about 1-2 points higher. Stateside I pull 6.5-7s, abroad it's about 7.5-8.5. They also tend to be a good bit younger.

[Coke Zero Addict]

(12-20-2018 11:13 PM)scotian Wrote:  

^Why don’t you try losing weight?

I'm working on it, but muh cheeseburgers and junk food get the best of me sometimes. FYI I'm not scooter-riding Walmart patron levels of obese, but I have a gut, etc.

(12-20-2018 11:32 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

You're convincing girls to fuck an obese dude.

I'm not convincing anyone of anything. Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

[Hydrae Cube]

There are some areas of Eastern Europe where girls have fat assess, chiefly Poland: their arses are ballooning at a rapid rate, there are also some other pockets of big arses like Macedonia.

If you're a "decent looking guy" who regularly bangs 5'6 and 6's in the west, then either you're not a decent looking guy at all, or you have some confidence problems

[Borges]

I don't think the phenomenon of scoring slightly better abroad is explained by cultural differences between "the West" and other places. It's just human nature. There are two dynamics at play in here:

1) The foreigner effect. Women are instinctively attracted to men they perceive as exotic. This is true for Western girls too. It's easy to imagine an American girl falling for a French or Italian guy, for example, that she would not find as attractive if he were American. This effect also happens on a more regional scale. In most countries you'll hear stories of girls from region X loving guys from region Y.

2) Economics and the pursuit of better living standards. In a scenario where there is sharp economic inequality between two regions, women will be attracted to foreigners from the wealthier region who have potential to 'save' them. In developed countries the ground is mostly level, but obviously there's a distinction between developed and developing or underdeveloped economies. But again, this is not about "the West". A wealthy Chinese guy will be very attractive to Thai girls.

[JimBobsCooters]

In certain countries I can punch a solid 2-3 points higher, for me it's all about maximising your value and the market size.

The age gap stigma is a big one, in Australia it just flat out reduces the amount of potential targets, taking it out of play just makes the market bigger, more potential targets is just increasing the odds.

My particular look also is not the ideal in Australia but certainly has higher value in other places. 6' is short for Australia but tall or acceptable for most places. The powerlifter/Ice Hockey kind of big legged/torso build is also certainly more popular in other countries than Australia.

The foreigner/novelty factor sure doesn't hurt either.

There is also a factor that doesn't get mentioned often but I've found to be very big and that's when your personal tastes go against the country that you're in's standard. Colombia for example with the infatuation on big asses and fake tits generally means that the skinny girls with pretty faces that I personally prefer are viewed more like a 6 or 7 even though in my eyes they're an 8 or 9 type. Same deal in Asia where I prefer darker skinned girls while most girls over there are trying to bleach themselves until they're transparent. Even places like Scandinavia where blondes are often preferred, the brunette that I prefer might be lower valued.

The biggest factor isn't necessarily the quality but the ease of pulling as well. Pulling an Australian 6 takes similar effort to pulling say a Colombian 8, so a solid part of it is just getting better returns on the same level of input.

To be fair I think that most of my personal experience is more weighted in the fact that Australia is one of the most difficult domestic markets, for comparison even in markets I'd consider to hold similar views to Australia I do better than in Australia, places like the UK, NZ and the US I find operate closer to the markets that I find "optimal" for my look than Australia's market. If this was a business I'd say that Australia would be the most over-saturated and competitive market to try and release a product in and the customers know it!

[Graft]

(12-20-2018 09:44 PM)Pokerbaby Wrote:  

Much hotter, I was 42 when I was living in Poland and could pass for maybe 35. I used to lie and say 35. I pulled a really nice Polish girl aged 20, I'd say solid 7, another girl 7.5 and then a 26 year old 8. I was working on a 9. I thought I was going to seal the deal but she kept playing mind games with me and I gave up.

Back in Toronto.. Forgetaboutit. I can maybe pull a 5 or a 6 and a 5 or a 6 around 35. Can't pull a 7+, under 30 years old.

Then again i don't have one friend in Toronto who pulled off a girl of higher standing, though Toronto does have tons of pretty girls.

This is encouraging stuff. Couldn't even pull an average girl under 35 y/o, go abroad and start hitting hot 20 year olds.

[placer]

Keep in mind this was nearly two decades ago, long before Naughty Nomad and Roosh brought the idea of traveling to get better dates to the mainstream, but I got a solid five point boost by going from Silicon Valley to Mexico.

In Silicon Valley, I was either a beta orbiter or I was dating a 2, a nearly repulsive land whale. In Mexico, I was dating 6s or 6.5s girls; the girl I ended up settling with down there was a solid 7.

There is just something about me which the girls really liked in Mexico which just didn’t gel with girls in Silicon Valley.

Or maybe it was a different era, where someone traveling to another country was so rare, the gringo exotic foreigner in Latin America speaking the local language gave me a +5 SMV, where these days it’s more like a +1, maybe +2 bonus.

If the days of someone who can’t get a real date in the US solving their problems by simply relocating and learning a new language are behind us, the world is not as good of a place as it was in my days of chasing pussy.

[MongolianAbroad]

(12-21-2018 09:31 PM)placer Wrote:  

Keep in mind this was nearly two decades ago, long before Naughty Nomad and Roosh brought the idea of traveling to get better dates to the mainstream, but I got a solid five point boost by going from Silicon Valley to Mexico.

In Silicon Valley, I was either a beta orbiter or I was dating a 2, a nearly repulsive land whale. In Mexico, I was dating 6s or 6.5s girls; the girl I ended up settling with down there was a solid 7.

There is just something about me which the girls really liked in Mexico which just didn’t gel with girls in Silicon Valley.

Or maybe it was a different era, where someone traveling to another country was so rare, the gringo exotic foreigner in Latin America speaking the local language gave me a +5 SMV, where these days it’s more like a +1, maybe +2 bonus.

That's awesome.

(12-21-2018 09:31 PM)placer Wrote:  

If the days of someone who can’t get a real date in the US solving their problems by simply relocating and learning a new language are behind us, the world is not as good of a place as it was in my days of chasing pussy.

I'm one of the guys that actually gets dates in the U.S., for the guys that don't fall in that bracket, I can't even imagine the pussy hell they're in for, at home or abroad.

[2 Cool 4 U]

(12-20-2018 09:48 PM)corsega Wrote:  

The forum sex tourism myth is "omg brah you're gonna be able to get 9s because of your value".

Maybe if you go to Southeast Asia (Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia) or Eastern Europe

[2 Cool 4 U]

(12-20-2018 08:45 PM)docdrops Wrote:  

AMERICAN GIRLS ARE WAYYYY TOO PICKY.

I have a hard time getting American girls, especially fat ugly ones like Rosie O Donnell. But I have little to no trouble getting thin hot, sexy Asian or Hispanic girls. Not too sure about Eastern Euro girls.

[brianmark]

(12-21-2018 10:30 AM)JimBobsCooters Wrote:  

In certain countries I can punch a solid 2-3 points higher, for me it's all about maximising your value and the market size.

The age gap stigma is a big one, in Australia it just flat out reduces the amount of potential targets, taking it out of play just makes the market bigger, more potential targets is just increasing the odds.

My particular look also is not the ideal in Australia but certainly has higher value in other places. 6' is short for Australia but tall or acceptable for most places. The powerlifter/Ice Hockey kind of big legged/torso build is also certainly more popular in other countries than Australia.

The foreigner/novelty factor sure doesn't hurt either.

There is also a factor that doesn't get mentioned often but I've found to be very big and that's when your personal tastes go against the country that you're in's standard. Colombia for example with the infatuation on big asses and fake tits generally means that the skinny girls with pretty faces that I personally prefer are viewed more like a 6 or 7 even though in my eyes they're an 8 or 9 type. Same deal in Asia where I prefer darker skinned girls while most girls over there are trying to bleach themselves until they're transparent. Even places like Scandinavia where blondes are often preferred, the brunette that I prefer might be lower valued.

The biggest factor isn't necessarily the quality but the ease of pulling as well. Pulling an Australian 6 takes similar effort to pulling say a Colombian 8, so a solid part of it is just getting better returns on the same level of input.

To be fair I think that most of my personal experience is more weighted in the fact that Australia is one of the most difficult domestic markets, for comparison even in markets I'd consider to hold similar views to Australia I do better than in Australia, places like the UK, NZ and the US I find operate closer to the markets that I find "optimal" for my look than Australia's market. If this was a business I'd say that Australia would be the most over-saturated and competitive market to try and release a product in and the customers know it!

You don't have Feminism and #MeTooMovement and the hatred of men in other foreign countries. In many other parts of the world, women still love men .

[pancakemouse]

(12-21-2018 11:26 PM)2 Cool 4 U Wrote:  

(12-20-2018 09:48 PM)corsega Wrote:  

The forum sex tourism myth is "omg brah you're gonna be able to get 9s because of your value".

Maybe if you go to Southeast Asia (Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia) or Eastern Europe

The East Asia threads are all full of people saying how the 9s are pretty much as hard to get as anywhere else.

[Kid Twist]

Sometimes I like coming in to threads like this and doing people the favor of succinct forum summary, that at least I've learned or thought about over a couple years. Note that some of this is experience, some of it is intuition, and some of it is wisdom rather than scientific analysis.

1) Before you talk about numbers and rating system, know your audience. Do you know anything about doing the person throwing the number out there (see an old thread title of mine that got me a short suspension, lol)? This goes also with the above point that people aren't 3D, they are 4D; affect, personality, values, sweetness, energy --- all of these will make what you thought was a 6, a 7 all of a sudden. It's that way for you too with masculine traits, humor, fun to be around, etc. Perhaps even moreso since we men carry a higher ability to change the rating due to nonvisual factors, the big difference in the sexes.

2) Be wise and temper the expectation of "Oh I just landed here and instantly it'll be easy in this poosy paradise". I'm overstating this to prove the point that you have to have minimal competency and self improvement as well as skills before you go somewhere else to take advantage of a market. There is no magic pill.

3) Having said 2, there is definitely much to be said that if you have a good product, but if the market you're in is saturated or doesn't realize how good your product is, or doesn't care, it's obvious that a new market may benefit you greatly. This is really what people are getting at when they talk about moving for greater "results" --- in all manners of the word. Short term benefits and/or long term probabilities of traditional or classic pairing.

4) Understand that the post 2012 world (smartphone launch effect to general population) is becoming more and more niche, albeit slowly (don't fall for the overstatements or pessimism). This is good and bad, overall, I think generally worse, but still isn't horrible --- social reactions to this as we move on might be unexpected. What I mean here is that the genie's out of the bottle with the social media rise and that is guaranteed to reduce certain numbers or people that were possible before, or warp their minds. It does make communication with particular types easier, however, and you should know your target audience so you can react accordingly.

5) Maybe the most important. You really have to be in a place for a while to be seen as a legit, trustworthy, and stable man --- and to see honest benefits. That means 1 month +. You'll see from posters that this factor is still hard to pull off for most guys, especially since we're hooked on the wealth of the west for various reasons, and it hasn't fallen, yet. Implicit in this is that you'll have time to develop social circle and trust, at least nominally.

This point can't be overstated.

If I think of any more, I'll chime in, as a lot of posts here jogged my memory.

[placer]

(12-22-2018 11:19 AM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

you have to have minimal competency and self improvement as well as skills before you go somewhere else to take advantage of a market.

I know, before I left the US to seek pussy in Mexico, I made a point of regularly getting good exercise to be as fit and trim as possible. I always knew I had a chance at getting pussy down there -- but I also knew I had to work at it.

(12-22-2018 11:19 AM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

Understand that the post 2012 world (smartphone launch effect to general population)

By the time smartphones took ever, I settled down and my dating days were behind me. However, I can talk about the online effect, because the Internet expanded a lot between my first dates in Mexico and the time I found someone to settle down with.

My experience was that the Internet and the early online dating made it a lot easier to meet people and get dates. Even with a social circle, the options I had in that circle were far more limited than all of the girls on the Internet going crazy that there was a gringo in town.

(12-22-2018 11:19 AM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

You really have to be in a place for a while to be seen as a legit, trustworthy, and stable man --- and to see honest benefits. That means 1 month +

This over and over again. I mentioned getting a five point boost earlier in this thread. But, that didn’t mean instant poosie paradise. It took me about two months of living there and building up my social circle before I started getting those hot dates with girls who would have been well out of my league in the US.

Even with Internet dating, the immediate "Hey, let’s get together" approach did not work; I had to chat online with girls for a while, before they would give me a phone number and finally get together with me. It took months of online flirting before I physically met the girl I settled down with.

The quality of girls I got online was about the same as I got in my social circle, but since there were more people, where social circle was giving me a bunch of 6 and 6.5 girls, I was able to get a solid 7 online (as well as a bunch of 6-6.5 girls like the ones I could get without the Internet).