[The Catalyst]

As of late I'm noticing Anglo(in particular Kiwi- but I think British/Aussie girls to a certain extent, and one Westernised Asian girl) girls have been brutally rejecting me, or if I do an approach a lot of them act as if I'm doing something wrong and they're sickened at being disturbed, and act like I need to leave them alone. Almost like they're triggered or frightened of me. This seems to have increased relative to a few months/years ago.

I do believe my game has improved so it's a bit of a mindfuck how it seems like I'm treated worse.

I don't get the same vibe/treatment with Euro/Asian/SA/NA girls. Even if I make mistakes the girls are still happy with the conversation. I've mostly been approaching Euro girls and they're treating me nicer than they used to, which was still really good then. I'm thankful for the Euro girls otherwise I would seriously worry my game has started to regress.

I'm wondering the possible reasons for this. I think it's unlikely Anglo girls treat me how I should be treated, while Euro girls think the same way but "are just trying to be nice". My impression is Euro girls are less scared/more independent, so they would have significantly less hesitation telling me what they really think about me. Kiwi/Anglo people generally are really scared/conflict avoidant and insist on "trying to be nice", which is weird how I've been brutally rejected by a string of them.

Possible conjectures:

-I've gotten more conservative and confident in myself over the years. This leads the rabbits/insecure people to despise you. Sounds far-fetched but I think this is really plausible, Kiwis often feel relieved/comfortable if you're insecure and reliant on them for your own self-worth, and triggered/panicked if you have your own opinion and don't care what they think.

-More and more anti-male culture in Anglo society. I don't know about this but I'm just throwing something at the wall.

-Maybe there's a string of PUAs or other aggressive guys that turn off girls to approaches. I've noticed a sparing amount of PUA style approaches when I wouldn't really notice any before.

Right now when I go to cold approach if I notice the girl is Anglo I feel a huge aversive feeling in my head. I don't feel this if the girl is not Anglo. Until I figure this out, I will not bother approaching any Anglo girl unless she is either 1) my type perfectly/really attractive(that is, I'd kick myself for not approaching) 2) seems really happy/psychologically well-adjusted 3) gives me IOIs. While I still am comfortable approaching a bitch face Euro girl who's perhaps even more attractive than the Anglo girl.

I wonder if anyone else has experienced something similar. I feel like i'm going crazy yet I can't help but think there's a pattern here.

[StrikeBack]

Anglo girls in general have the worst social skills compared to other girls, that's why. Think bad Game but on the girls side.

[GT777733]

It's built into Western culture in Australia and New Zealand to see people outside of your immediate social circle as weird or non-existent or low value, and not be very open.

I was seeing a South American girl in Australia for a bit, and she mentioned this exact thing without me bringing it up.

On top of this - more and more young girls these days are spending so much time talking to each other virtually on social media and via messaging apps, that talking on the phone and cold approach is becoming more anxiety inducing and foreign for them.

Your plan is a good one.

See Australian and New Zealand girls as mostly a lost cause (not all of them are, but majority are just too hooked into social circle, the toxic culture and technology) - and only give your time to the ones you feel the strongest attraction for, who look the happiest and give you some type of IOI. This will give you the best ROI on your time, and save you lots of lost mental and emotional energy. Try different venues like universities, special events, festivals, markets, etc. Try to be spontaneous and do it within your daily activity, and don't go out just to 'game' as much.

If you need to start travelling on top of this to get access to other girls, do that.

Also, long term, focus on building your core value, finances and lifestyle to give you maximum flexibility going forward, so you aren't trapped in a short term strategy.

[MongolianAbroad]

(12-18-2018 06:43 AM)GT777733 Wrote:  

It's built into Western culture in Australia and New Zealand to see people outside of your immediate social circle as weird or non-existent or low value, and not be very open.

I was seeing a South American girl in Australia for a bit, and she mentioned this exact thing without me bringing it up.

On top of this - more and more young girls these days are spending so much time talking to each other virtually on social media and via messaging apps, that talking on the phone and cold approach is becoming more anxiety inducing and foreign for them.

Your plan is a good one.

See Australian and New Zealand girls as mostly a lost cause (not all of them are, but majority are just too hooked into social circle, the toxic culture and technology) - and only give your time to the ones you feel the strongest attraction for, who look the happiest and give you some type of IOI. This will give you the best ROI on your time, and save you lots of lost mental and emotional energy. Try different venues like universities, special events, festivals, markets, etc. Try to be spontaneous and do it within your daily activity, and don't go out just to 'game' as much.

If you need to start travelling on top of this to get access to other girls, do that.

Also, long term, focus on building your core value, finances and lifestyle to give you maximum flexibility going forward, so you aren't trapped in a short term strategy.

Solid post, GT quad seven double three.

[Captain Gh]

It would be good to post the logistics of how & where you approach! Your explanation could be the right one... but I'll let @Corsegua Bump in to give his take for a definite answer

[BlackFriar]

It is not you. It is happening here in America too. Just do not give up. It can be very soul crushing. Especially when you are just starting to try and meet women. But you have to learn that if you want to do a certain things....there will always be bumps along the road.

[pk9090]

(12-18-2018 05:37 AM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

As of late I'm noticing Anglo(in particular Kiwi- but I think British/Aussie girls to a certain extent, and one Westernised Asian girl) girls have been brutally rejecting me, or if I do an approach a lot of them act as if I'm doing something wrong and they're sickened at being disturbed, and act like I need to leave them alone. Almost like they're triggered or frightened of me. This seems to have increased relative to a few months/years ago.

I do believe my game has improved so it's a bit of a mindfuck how it seems like I'm treated worse.

I don't get the same vibe/treatment with Euro/Asian/SA/NA girls. Even if I make mistakes the girls are still happy with the conversation. I've mostly been approaching Euro girls and they're treating me nicer than they used to, which was still really good then. I'm thankful for the Euro girls otherwise I would seriously worry my game has started to regress.

I'm wondering the possible reasons for this. I think it's unlikely Anglo girls treat me how I should be treated, while Euro girls think the same way but "are just trying to be nice". My impression is Euro girls are less scared/more independent, so they would have significantly less hesitation telling me what they really think about me. Kiwi/Anglo people generally are really scared/conflict avoidant and insist on "trying to be nice", which is weird how I've been brutally rejected by a string of them.

Possible conjectures:

-I've gotten more conservative and confident in myself over the years. This leads the rabbits/insecure people to despise you. Sounds far-fetched but I think this is really plausible, Kiwis often feel relieved/comfortable if you're insecure and reliant on them for your own self-worth, and triggered/panicked if you have your own opinion and don't care what they think.

-More and more anti-male culture in Anglo society. I don't know about this but I'm just throwing something at the wall.

-Maybe there's a string of PUAs or other aggressive guys that turn off girls to approaches. I've noticed a sparing amount of PUA style approaches when I wouldn't really notice any before.

Right now when I go to cold approach if I notice the girl is Anglo I feel a huge aversive feeling in my head. I don't feel this if the girl is not Anglo. Until I figure this out, I will not bother approaching any Anglo girl unless she is either 1) my type perfectly/really attractive(that is, I'd kick myself for not approaching) 2) seems really happy/psychologically well-adjusted 3) gives me IOIs. While I still am comfortable approaching a bitch face Euro girl who's perhaps even more attractive than the Anglo girl.

I wonder if anyone else has experienced something similar. I feel like i'm going crazy yet I can't help but think there's a pattern here.

Im not Australian but its close to impossible for me to get aus/kiwi girls, no idea why, maybe they just dont like my look.

[The Catalyst]

Thanks for the responses. It does explain the pattern of behavior in the first place.

What I'm particularly curious about is why I've noticed this *increase* relative to a few months/years ago, when in a time ostensibly I'm more attractive(looks, style, vibe) and have better game/social skills than I ever did. Did something change? Maybe I noticed it more than I used to?

The other question is if they act like they don't want to meet guys, is do they not want guys to talk to them ever? I'm a reasonable person deep down, I'll give them what they want. But I've always thought if I talk to for example 30 Kiwi girls, and 10 or so(maybe higher) don't want to talk to me at all to varying degrees(and didn't want me approaching), while 1 is a viable option, I feel the 10 girls can just suck it up while I find that 1 girl. I will definitely leave/eject as soon as I can but I don't think it's fair that I cannot find that 1 girl. But the bad interactions make it difficult for me to learn- brutal rejections teach me I'm "doing something wrong" which is a real mindfuck if it doesn't seem like I am.

[tugofpeace]

Ever thought that maybe they just dont find you attractive?

[The Catalyst]

Yes but then the obvious question is why.

[Thot Leader]

(12-18-2018 05:59 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

Anglo girls in general have the worst social skills compared to other girls, that's why. Think bad Game but on the girls side.

Agreed, and this has everything to do with the socially "progressive" tract the west has been on the past couple generations: divorce and feminism. So girls aren't raised to be proper ladies and thus to value proper men. They have no idea how to interact other than demanding whatever they want, whenever they want it. If a man doesn't immediately appear to meet whatever need she's feeling, he is persona non grata.

I think a lesser reason is the pedestal white women are placed upon for purely aesthetic reasons. Don't get me wrong, I like most men do prefer white women, but it never ceases to amaze me when a white 6 acts more stuck up (i.e. higher value) than a non white 7.

[StrikeBack]

I used to date Anglo Australian girls up until around the same time the smart phone became affordable and social media was a big part of young women's lives (~2010). Then I found myself dating mostly foreigners, usually European girls, simply because I always gravitate towards happy friendly feminine women. Anglo girls started to become socially awkward and frankly very rude. Not just in dating, but in normal social interactions as simple as not saying thank you when you give way, or directions.

They're not only rude to us men, they are just as rude to other women too. Like I said, I used to date foreign girls and every one of them struggles to make friends with Anglo Australian women. My wife is Australian, but of a different European mix, and she too has a bad time with Anglo girls. Her female friends are all from other backgrounds.

[rudebwoy]

OP - I assume you aren't white.

[The Catalyst]

No, I'm Asian. Does it really matter?

[asianirish1]

Yes it does matter. White women largely do not have a preference for Asian men. Think Hollywood/Media displaying Asian men.

This isn't an excuse to stop trying but if it's getting brutal stop the cold approach and only warm approach to get your confidence back. However if you were successful before , it's not improbable to go on a 50 approach reject streak

[pancakemouse]

(12-18-2018 11:51 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

No, I'm Asian. Does it really matter?

Uh, yes.

https://theblog.okcupid.com/race-and-att...7dcbb4f060

Do you currently look like more like this?



If so, change your look up to be more like this:



(Spoiler alert: same guy in both photos)

[The Catalyst]

I'm slightly less attractive than the 2nd photo but I believe I'm much more attractive than the 1st. My jawline isn't as good and I'm slightly skinnier and my skin isn't completely clear relative to the 2nd pic, but I definitely don't look nerdy and dweeby and chubby like the 1st pic.

While I imagine being Asian is a small disadvantage, I imagine my biggest problem with Kiwis is I'm not in their social circle. I've seen many Asian guy-white girl couples in school age/school uniforms(and less so slightly older than that), and the girl looks hot enough that I'd be happy with her as my girlfriend. While I don't believe I've ever seen more than a few guys get with Kiwi girls without being in the same social circle as them(Tinder aside- but then you date down).

[pancakemouse]

(12-19-2018 01:52 AM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

I'm slightly less attractive than the 2nd photo but I believe I'm much more attractive than the 1st. My jawline isn't as good and I'm slightly skinnier and my skin isn't completely clear relative to the 2nd pic, but I definitely don't look nerdy and dweeby and chubby like the 1st pic.

While I imagine being Asian is a small disadvantage, I imagine my biggest problem with Kiwis is I'm not in their social circle. I've seen many Asian guy-white girl couples in school age/school uniforms(and less so slightly older than that), and the girl looks hot enough that I'd be happy with her as my girlfriend. While I don't believe I've ever seen more than a few guys get with Kiwi girls without being in the same social circle as them(Tinder aside- but then you date down).

So, we've identified some potential issues:
- Lack of social circle
- Skinny-ish
- Unclear skin

Also:
- Lives in New Zealand

One potential cause you haven't mentioned yet:
- Variance

All of these issues (except for variance) have clear solutions. Time to get to work

[Bienvenuto]

Well, my two cents.

I'm a 6ft 4" Blond haired blue eyed guy, not bad looking and I can tell you that IMHO Aussie girls have major issues - entitled, stupid scumbags a lot of them.

OP's ethnicity could well be an issue, no doubt.

But my experience of living in rural Australia was that I turned up as a middle class ex-rugby player 6' 4" 235 lbs with a history of. sport and manual work the girls there all assumed that as a well spoken English guy that I was gay.

Only after a lot of getting to see my raging hormones on display every time I was near a local chick did they accept that I might just be bisexual.

Only after drinking non-stop piss, working on building sites, working for local hoods, landscaping work, weekends in the bush riding bikes, chopping wood and drinking even more piss, getting my head used as a football a few times by local chads in local pubs did they accept that I might just possibly be heterosexual.

I got to the point where I was getting up at 5 every morning, sweating buckets till 3.30 then out to the bush riding around in 4WDs hunting out rabbits with dogs, drinking piss and eating cattleman's cutlets cooked over a fire. Everyone was bare foot apart from when on site, in the pub or exploring the bush. Only ever heard the word Bogan once and that was on the radio, the pub went quiet for a moment.
Police came round our house one morning all worked up about something and I remember thing "compared to all the other psychos coming round here with a bone to pick, you are the least of my problems.."

I started to view huge, jacked townies that I saw in cities wandering around in muscle vests as just so many faggots. Sure, they probably could have all beaten me up but it was a sign that I was beginning to look at the world through the eyes of rural Australia..

I was in Australia years before as a callow young backpacker and I remember being in a swish hostel in Port Douglas supping on avocado and wheatgrass smoothies sitting round the pool talking in a group with some toned and Gucci clad local A-Gays in it. They had the English and French girls eating out of the palms of their hands, they turned to me and said "so what do you think of our local fish?"

I said that they seemed dumb, angry, hard to talk to.. those guys all nodded and said 'yeah, yeah, you're right. they are. But its not their fault, its because they have to deal with the >Aussie Male< --and the men here are so stupid, bovine, racist, prejudiced... blah blah blah"

Years later chatted to a guy in a European hostel. He was from Wollongong. Very rich family. Bragged that his relatives overseas were 'genuine 2 percenters'. Fully sold on Crypto, Game, Wardrobe, red-pill you name it. Rich, smart, charismatic. He came across as a fucking snake.
We spoke about my friends who were all tradies living in bush towns.
he went off on one about how rural tradies, how they were all so big and jacked and macho and it wasn't fair on him cos the girls in Wollongong would use them as a standard that they would compare him to "..and its not fair! its just not fair!"

Spoke to a rich foreign banker who lived in Sydney's Northern beaches about Aussies. he said to me what blew his mind was flying north at night once from Melbourne to Sydney or Brisbane and the flight path went for hours over nothingness, just pitch black, no human habitation whatsoever.
He said that Australia being so big means that people grow up in isolated communities, social media be damned, and that meant that Aussies were very cliquey and hard for strangers to crack.
That has been my experience.

And I realised that if I couldn't beat them I could join them - if I drank as much, worked as hard, showed as much bottle as they had, or tried to.. they would begin to respect me. Then I would get accepted. By my male friends and their wider cliques.

But every bush pig I met had shagged men way above them in SMV and whose macho credentials I couldn't hold a torch to. I'm talking 4s landing 8 s every fortnight if they lined their use of snap chat etc. right.

I actually visited and went out in Wollongong with some people for the night and if it hadn't been for the guys I was with and all those cattleman's cutlets, hungover days spent concreting, rural punch ons with psychos that scared the shit out of me, then I would have been Amoged off the park.
As it was I scored a hot 21 year old chick and was able to tell the many cock blockers to fuck off.

So the woman are lazy arrogant c unts with a very high opinion of themselves but also a very keen sense of their actual worth in the sausage fest that is the Australian marketplace.

I saw guys at festivals like Stereosonic who had obviously spent alot of time in the Gym, strutting around in short shorts checking their muscles every 5 or 10 seconds. They must have thought they had ticked every box.

But then my mate who had survived bikies burying him under tree branches and rubble out in the bush after thinking that they had killed him, and who had crawled to a road and never breathed a word to the cops from his hospital bed about who did it, who had pissed off a judge so much that the judge sent him on a 'round robin' of Australian prisons, who no-one wanted to fight despite the fact that he was only 5 foot 9 and had a face like a hamster could go up to any chick and say "let me suck your piss flaps for ya" and not only would the slaps or the push aways be half hearted you could see them keep gravitating back to him for more .. until he f ucked whichever one of them later on.

Australia is built on the foundations of the rural male. That is the standard that the population holds its men to. The men in the cities, certainly the lawyers and office workers etc. seem to cringe a bit about how they measure up to that.

Its a fucking golden foundation for any society to have, and still to have their primary industries and skilled manual labour force unlike the UK for example.

But mix it with cutting edge degenerate 3rd wave feminism and entitled lard beasts knowing that their worth is their weight in gold and it is a toxic mix.

Cliquey social circles are another part of that toxic mix for any outsider.

So OPs ethnicity might be a factor but Australia in general is an uphill battle to score quality and that hot-ish chick he tries to open has used her bitch shield on 100s of guys just as worthy if not more so than OP and still had her pick and got laid regularly off the back of it.

So no OP, it's not just you.. The question for you is what you can do about it.

Like I say, my two cents.

[RatInTheWoods]

This could be a sign that you are not attractive, are not socially calibrated or not choosing your targets well.

Western women know all about PUA, and the scene by now, and they have probably been approached many times.

Image you are out with your mates and fat chicks keep coming up and interrupting you with the presumption that are good enough to have sex with you?
Imagine this happening many many times a month. It is going to piss you off.

You need to pick your times and targets. Look for IOIS, or "invited" opening opportunities, and less annoying spam style hits.

But yeah, its getting harder each year, they have many options, pussy is a sellers market.

[Bienvenuto]

(12-19-2018 02:32 AM)corsega Wrote:  

(12-19-2018 01:52 AM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

I'm slightly less attractive than the 2nd photo but I believe I'm much more attractive than the 1st. My jawline isn't as good and I'm slightly skinnier and my skin isn't completely clear relative to the 2nd pic, but I definitely don't look nerdy and dweeby and chubby like the 1st pic.

While I imagine being Asian is a small disadvantage, I imagine my biggest problem with Kiwis is I'm not in their social circle. I've seen many Asian guy-white girl couples in school age/school uniforms(and less so slightly older than that), and the girl looks hot enough that I'd be happy with her as my girlfriend. While I don't believe I've ever seen more than a few guys get with Kiwi girls without being in the same social circle as them(Tinder aside- but then you date down).

So, we've identified some potential issues:
- Lack of social circle
- Skinny-ish
- Unclear skin

Also:
- Lives in New Zealand

One potential cause you haven't mentioned yet:
- Variance

All of these issues (except for variance) have clear solutions. Time to get to work

Corsega is using your information provided to lay out your path OP..

Also important: How old are you?

[The Catalyst]

Early 20s

[Bienvenuto]

You have time on your side brother.

Lay the ground work on Alpha-ness now and you can slay poon in 3 years/ late twenties.

As Corsega says social circle, friendship with decent high value people is what's needing your focus.

Also -- Get Physical. Devote a year to intensely laying the foundations of becoming jacked so that later its just a feature of your life that you maintain alongside other hobbies / interests/ many hot chicks all wanting your time.

What country do you live in? Isn't clear from your posts.

[JackinMelbourne]

(12-18-2018 05:37 AM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

Western(ized) girls have been brutally rejecting me, or if I do an approach a lot of them act as if I'm doing something wrong

Almost like they're triggered or frightened of me. This seems to have increased relative to a few months/years ago.


I wonder if anyone else has experienced something similar. I feel like i'm going crazy yet I can't help but think there's a pattern here.

Yes mate, I've had some un-natural negative reactions from basic kino when it was never a problem in previous years. I could blame it on possible mis-calibration or going in too early before comfort was built but it was never a problem in the past, even when I've done ultra-direct risky shit. This is all night game BTW.

It kind of messed with my head at one point and made me question myself but then I decided that it's nonsense and it's either a shitty shit test or corrupt poundmetoo femenist NPC response. Both scenarios require hanging in for a moment and if they keep being retards just eject and leave them yapping mid sentence and have a laugh. Nobody has time for that.

[TheLegendofBentCock]

(12-18-2018 02:31 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

Thanks for the responses. It does explain the pattern of behavior in the first place.

What I'm particularly curious about is why I've noticed this *increase* relative to a few months/years ago, when in a time ostensibly I'm more attractive(looks, style, vibe) and have better game/social skills than I ever did. Did something change? Maybe I noticed it more than I used to?

The other question is if they act like they don't want to meet guys, is do they not want guys to talk to them ever? I'm a reasonable person deep down, I'll give them what they want. But I've always thought if I talk to for example 30 Kiwi girls, and 10 or so(maybe higher) don't want to talk to me at all to varying degrees(and didn't want me approaching), while 1 is a viable option, I feel the 10 girls can just suck it up while I find that 1 girl. I will definitely leave/eject as soon as I can but I don't think it's fair that I cannot find that 1 girl. But the bad interactions make it difficult for me to learn- brutal rejections teach me I'm "doing something wrong" which is a real mindfuck if it doesn't seem like I am.

I am a daygame beginner and over here in England.

I can relate to much of what you are saying, especially about chicks just seeming to not want to talk to guys, like nothing good can come of it ever.

They only seem to associate negative things with "weird guys who talk to strangers" as one of my approach targets put it.

It's funny how you also mention the brutal rejections putting you off. I was out at the weekend in my local town and I had the same feeling. I wasn't afraid to approach and get rejected, but my non day game friend was with he and he said something along the lines of "Obviously, if you are approaching and getting brutally rejected every time, you are doing something wrong".

So that made me feel apathetic towards approaching for the last hour of daylight and I thought "well what is the point if they are just gonna get creeped out by me". A lot of day game interactions are so fleeting and brief that it's hard to get any sort of experience.

I am not sure how much of Bienvenuto's post is relevant, an interesting cultural insight, but I suspect since I can relate to you're problems so well from the other side of the world and a markedly less macho culture, that the problems are more fundamental basics than to do with culture.