[Graft]

Say you want to move abroad to EE or SA and live on a very comfortable/borderline lavish monthly income.

How much would you need to either retire or come back to the US years later and feel comfortable getting a job?

I say earning 6% on $300-400k. It's definitely possible to earn higher interest with a more aggressive investing strategy, 10% and up. You can do this if you save 2,000 a month over 10 years gaining 6% a year.

2,000 monthly is definitely enough to live comfortably in a lot of EE cities. Then when you come back to the US you can at least pay rent indefinitely or buy a place in cash.

I wouldn't move with a five figure sum, it's just not enough to feel comfortable leaving the country and coming back without a job and potentially with a chick.

[Waqqle]

I spent the first years of my adult life living in the Philippines and, at that time I was living on $400 a month. I went back again more recently and found that prices have not changed much since then. If you want to live there, you can manage comfortably on $500-1000 a month and you can be on god level for $2000 per month. I was mainly living in the second largest and second most expensive city in the country (Cebu City) at that time and prices for things outside of the major cities, especially rent, are of course much lower.

I know that you can buy a modest concrete house that is comfortable for around $10-20k USD if you have a wife. You cannot own the land that it's on as a foreigner unless you have a wife whose name you can put it in. As a foreigner without a Filipino wife, you can only own dwellings that are above the first floor and you cannot own the land that they sit on. This basically means condo units. In Manila, those tend to go for around $60k USD but I'm sure the prices drop the farther from Manila you go.

If you calculate it, $2000 USD per month (there is no way you would not be able to manage this in the Philippines, especially in a little beach town) adds up to $24,000 USD per year and $1000 USD per month (you could make this work best in a smaller beach town outside of Manila like Dumaguete or Kalibo) adds of course to $12k USD per year. If either of those sound doable to you, then you're good to go.

The answer depends on how much longer you have left to live, how lavish you want your lifestyle to be, how much you want to travel, whether or not you are supporting a family, which city/region you are in, etc. Another big factor is whether or not you are going to buy a house and never have to pay rent again.

*If you are going to support a girlfriend/wife and/or kid(s), just add $200-500 per month to whatever figure you come up with, depending on how much you want to take them out and such.

*One possible edge that EE might have over SEA is that, barring maybe Cambodia or Indonesia, it is highly unlikely that you will ever become a citizen in a SEA country (though permanent residency is entirely possible, especially if you get married to a local). I know of one German guy who acquired Philippine citizenship by throwing an unknown sum (I heard it was around $1mil USD) at the process and opening a big movie studio and film school on Mactan Island (Michael Gleisner and it's called Bigfoot Studios). He had to give up his German citizenship to do so though because, while the Philippines allows its native-born citizens to acquire other nationalities, naturalized foreigners are technically required to renounce other nationalities (though, there is sort of a loophole for this if you are American that I can tell you about if you are interested). By contrast, EE countries tend to have friendlier naturalization laws and it is realistically possible to acquire dual citizenship and be able to have all the rights that come with it in several if not all EE countries.

Have you got some sort of pension or outside income coming in or are you asking about what lump sum of cash you would need to go there with in order to be able to just coast on it for the rest of your life?

[Graft]

Lump sum of cash, pension is different. You don't have as much control, can't make any moves with the cash like downpayments, business investing etc.

Phils/Thailand can be a good option but not someplace I want to settle down indefinitely.

[Waqqle]

(12-17-2018 11:23 PM)Graft Wrote:  

Lump sum of cash, pension is different. You don't have as much control, can't make any moves with the cash like downpayments, business investing etc.

Phils/Thailand can be a good option but not someplace I want to settle down indefinitely.

I actually would recommend the Phils over Thailand as a long-term place to live because there are a lot of great small beach and mountain towns in the Phils that you can find a place for yourself in and the language barrier won't be an issue. The Phils is also one of the countries where I would not think that getting married and having kids is a completely stupid idea. Not 100% sure I would say the same about Thailand though, especially if you are not up for learning Thai to a high level.

Have you got any specific countries in mind that you might want to settle in indefinitely or are you planning to not settle indefinitely at all and keep bouncing around? There are two different strategies for both of these options. Also, what is your nationality? That actually does make a difference.

Do you plan to buy or rent? And how many more years do you think you have left in you?

[tezza198]

It solely depends on your age and how you want to live. I am thinking of going and living in Philippines for 6 months at some point within the next 2 years and based on my initial research and after having been three times i think I can do the whole thing easy for 10k.

My flight would be approx $400 AUD and rent for 6 months would be approx be around $4,800 AUD assuming I'm paying $800 which is a huge over-kill you could find a long term apartment in a decent area for much cheaper than that. Regarding spending money not 100% sure but id say around 500 p/month for food, utilities etc

[Waqqle]

(12-17-2018 11:31 PM)tezza198 Wrote:  

It solely depends on your age and how you want to live. I am thinking of going and living in Philippines for 6 months at some point within the next 2 years and based on my initial research and after having been three times i think I can do the whole thing easy for 10k.

My flight would be approx $400 AUD and rent for 6 months would be approx be around $4,800 AUD assuming I'm paying $800 which is a huge over-kill you could find a long term apartment in a decent area for much cheaper than that. Regarding spending money not 100% sure but id say around 500 p/month for food, utilities etc

Cool man! Which city are you planning on living in and where have you been there already?

[Graft]

(12-17-2018 11:27 PM)Waqqle Wrote:  

(12-17-2018 11:23 PM)Graft Wrote:  

Lump sum of cash, pension is different. You don't have as much control, can't make any moves with the cash like downpayments, business investing etc.

Phils/Thailand can be a good option but not someplace I want to settle down indefinitely.

Have you got any specific countries in mind that you might want to settle in indefinitely or are you planning to not settle indefinitely at all and keep bouncing around? There are two different strategies for both of these options. Also, what is your nationality? That actually does make a difference and there are certain treaties and things like that which can give you an edge in certain countries.

Nationality is American, I have a darker mediterranean look.

I think 2-3k/mo can give me most of the options I'd look for. I'd be interested in the first or second most prominent city in any country I'd live in. Medellin, Belgrade, Kiev, Split, possibly even Mexico City.

[GT777733]

I think you have to get more specific. List for yourself:

- where you want to stay in the EE or SA
- check out those online living cost sites in that place - google 'living costs in [country or city name]'
- give yourself some options of several places you can move between to in case you don't like one particular place
- factor in an emergency or one off kitty for things like moving expenses, medical costs, having to fly back to the US for any reason etc.
- factor in your future life goals. Don't base this all around moving to just enjoy the next few years or to go find a girlfriend in the next few years. You've got a life to live after that too

You mentioned you earn I think it was 200k a year?
In my opinion, you are better off overshooting to say 600k - earning 6% on that (36k a year), and working that extra year and a half or few to get that amount
That will cover you better for any emergencies, unexpected change of plans, and it will compound better over time

You don't want to risk coming back to the US in a few years on bare bones and having missed the chance to compound your money or having lost that income earning opportunity

I know you're 27 or 28 so time is precious, but, I'd rather go across at say 30 or 31 with an extra few hundred thousand and allow that money to work for me and cover my future risks in life much better

The other option is you go over there with the intention to work part time (remotely through your current job) or build an extra income over the next few years so you have something to fall back on when you come back or to see you into the future if you stay

Being in your 20's or 30's can be tough with making those sorts of decisions - because you're constantly weighing up making the most of your youth vs covering yourself for the future. It probably does depend on the individual's goals to an extent

As an FYI - I think Roosh said on one of his live streams he is paying about $600 a month for the place he is in in the Balkans at the moment (I think, I might be wrong)

The guys that have already moved over to EE or SA and have their finances sorted can probably help you much better

[Lampwick]

There are a bunch of pitfalls to be aware of:

- The usual recommended withdrawal rate for retirement is 4% per year. This is likely based on historical returns of a portfolio consisting of US stocks/bonds. You want to err on the side of being conservative with this calculation, not more aggressive. If you're too aggressive and market volatility goes the wrong way, you're fucked.
- If you're out of the job market for > 6 months, depending on your occupation, it becomes much harder to jump back in. People assume there is something wrong with you. Being outside the system freaks people out in a visceral way.
- Once you get closer to 50, age discrimination starts kicking in. Nobody wants to hire the old fart unless they're coming in at the executive level or something. This is probably more pronounced at tech companies.
- The wild card with retirement is health care. When you get older, these costs start skyrocketing. Even when you're younger, one bad accident in a developing country can really fuck you and your finances up. How is health care in Eastern Europe? I have no idea. This may be the flipside of the low cost of living.

Let's say $1 million. 2% withdrawal rate to be conservative. That gets you close to the $2,000 per month figure. Still, depending how old you are, if you're talking about retiring, plus having a family, that's many decades where that money would have to last. I think that's why this forum places such an emphasis on location independent income. There are probably a bunch of guys here who have a huge nest egg, but wouldn't consider moving to a foreign country without an income stream.

[Flux]

It's unwise to leave your home permanently, you'll become unrooted and experience the full pressures of being an outsider. It's really a last resort.

I'm a market investor and could, but would never permanently relocate, unless it's Monaco or Switzerland for tax purposes. I would be married then, and I wouldn't go to find a wife--you're honestly 100% more likely to find one within your own culture and social circle.

Find a suitable one, with people that aren't part of the cultural collapse.

There are still good people here.

[Graft]

(12-17-2018 11:40 PM)Lampwick Wrote:  

There are a bunch of pitfalls to be aware of:

- The usual recommended withdrawal rate for retirement is 4% per year. This is likely based on historical returns of a portfolio consisting of US stocks/bonds. You want to err on the side of being conservative with this calculation, not more aggressive. If you're too aggressive and market volatility goes the wrong way, you're fucked.
- If you're out of the job market for > 6 months, depending on your occupation, it becomes much harder to jump back in. People assume there is something wrong with you. Being outside the system freaks people out in a visceral way.
- Once you get closer to 50, age discrimination starts kicking in. Nobody wants to hire the old fart unless they're coming in at the executive level or something. This is probably more pronounced at tech companies.
- The wild card with retirement is health care. When you get older, these costs start skyrocketing. Even when you're younger, one bad accident in a developing country can really fuck you and your finances up. How is health care in Eastern Europe? I have no idea. This may be the flipside of the low cost of living.

Let's say $1 million. 2% withdrawal rate to be conservative. That gets you close to the $2,000 per month figure. Still, depending how old you are, if you're talking about retiring, plus having a family, that's many decades where that money would have to last. I think that's why this forum places such an emphasis on location independent income. There are probably a bunch of guys here who have a huge nest egg, but wouldn't consider moving to a foreign country without an income stream.

I agree with the top but the numbers are a little too conservative if you're savvy. AT&T, Exxon, General Mills are staple blue chips and they pay 4-6%. Put in a few REITS, high grade business bonds and you should be at 6-7% average.

2% is ridiculously safe, I can get that with treasuries and CDs.

Sabbatical years in career are becoming more and more common. I'm confident that I can explain a year or two to travel the world, especially if I touch up on skills/certs. It's better if you have had good years without being voluntarily out of the workplace, have good recommendations.

My income in the states is pretty high but I spend most of it to game in a first tier city. If I can get a woman who won't fleece me, I can start making more moves, buying a property, spending less. Would be a net positive if I can get back on my feet with even half my current salary.

[Graft]

I'm surprised at all the answers above 500k. I would have changed the poll responses.

500k is a lot of money for abroad, probably 20 good years just living off the cash with no interest.

I could theoretically do 100k easily, I just don't want to come back ready to start a family with $50,000 and no job. If I need more than a couple of years I'm doing it very wrong.

[Waqqle]

(12-17-2018 11:34 PM)Graft Wrote:  

(12-17-2018 11:27 PM)Waqqle Wrote:  

(12-17-2018 11:23 PM)Graft Wrote:  

Lump sum of cash, pension is different. You don't have as much control, can't make any moves with the cash like downpayments, business investing etc.

Phils/Thailand can be a good option but not someplace I want to settle down indefinitely.

Have you got any specific countries in mind that you might want to settle in indefinitely or are you planning to not settle indefinitely at all and keep bouncing around? There are two different strategies for both of these options. Also, what is your nationality? That actually does make a difference and there are certain treaties and things like that which can give you an edge in certain countries.

Nationality is American, I have a darker mediterranean look.

I think 2-3k/mo can give me most of the options I'd look for. I'd be interested in the first or second most prominent city in any country I'd live in. Medellin, Belgrade, Kiev, Split, possibly even Mexico City.

Of the options given, I'd suggest Medellin, Belgrade, or Kiev. Dual citizenship is probably not doable in Ukraine so it loses points for that but it is entirely possible in Colombia and Serbia. Colombia is also cheap to fly to from the US so you would have no trouble visiting relatives for the holidays and stuff like that. Split is most likely going to be the priciest of the cities you just listed and Belgrade is close enough to it (by our American standard of distance especially) as to make Belgrade the better option. Not to mention the fact that Croatia does not allow naturalized foreigners to be dual citizens so you would have to give up your US passport to become a citizen there which is something you won't have to do in Serbia.

I stayed in Cali for 3 months recently and it was great. Did not get to Medellin but heard good things. As for Serbia, it is very conveniently located if you want to be able to pop over to another country every now and then whenever you get bored. This is an advantage it has over Colombia as plane flights and transport over long distances can be fairly expensive in South America. Colombia has a great deal of biological and regional diversity within its border though as it is actually a very big country. From there, is comes down to what kind of climate you prefer, which language you want to learn (you won't be able to get away from this unless you want to only hang out with other Anglos), and which region you want to spend the most time visiting (Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East or South and Central America).

$2-3k USD per month will set you up well in Belgrade, Kiev, and Medellin.

If you are looking for an LTR/marriage with an attractive white woman (I am assuming this from your city list), I recommend leaning more toward Belgrade and Kiev because the hot white girls in Medellin girls are known to be both very flakey and also very promiscuous which is great for vacations but maybe not so much for a wife. Latin America in general is also known to be a very unfaithful part of the world in that many people have affairs. Of those two remaining cities, I recommend Belgrade for the dual citizenship factor as you will at some point probably want to own property and a business or something and being a citizen just makes it easier to do all that sort of stuff. You can also very easily visit Kiev and Split as often as you want from Belgrade.

[Lampwick]

(12-18-2018 12:00 AM)Graft Wrote:  

I agree with the top but the numbers are a little too conservative if you're savvy. AT&T, Exxon, General Mills are staple blue chips and they pay 4-6%. Put in a few REITS, high grade business bonds and you should be at 6-7% average.

2% is ridiculously safe, I can get that with treasuries and CDs.

2% is the withdrawal rate. The idea is for the annual rate of return to exceed your withdrawal rate with a suitable margin of safety. And I think a more conservative withdrawal rate is warranted if you factor in the risk of catastrophic events, such as health care related issues.

As you get older, your human capital (i.e., ability to earn) diminishes, which means you are capable of taking on less risk with your portfolio. Because of this, people re-weight their portfolio to bonds or other fixed income instruments, which decreases overall returns over time.

Also, chasing dividends is not a foolproof strategy. Lots of staple blue chips of the old days are eating shit now (GE, JNJ). Things change.

Quote:

Sabbatical years in career are becoming more and more common. I'm confident that I can explain a year or two to travel the world, especially if I touch up on skills/certs. It's better if you have had good years without being voluntarily out of the workplace, have good recommendations.

By all means, take a year or two off, you only get so many chances in life. This is different from retirement or living somewhere indefinitely though. Also if you are planning on a LTR abroad, bringing her back presents a whole new set of issues.

[Waqqle]

(12-18-2018 12:10 AM)Graft Wrote:  

I'm surprised at all the answers above 500k. I would have changed the poll responses.

500k is a lot of money for abroad, probably 20 good years just living off the cash with no interest.

I could theoretically do 100k easily, I just don't want to come back ready to start a family with $50,000 and no job. If I need more than a couple of years I'm doing it very wrong.

In my experience, I never saw anyone just retire in the Philippines and do nothing for the rest of their life (and I saw a lot of guys "retire" there). We think that we want to just not ever work again and that we will never get bored of not having to do anything. But you will get bored, usually after about 3-6 months, and you will want to engage in some kind of work. This is why you always see guys opening bars and restaurants in SEA. They almost never need the money. They just want to work on something. I've seen a lot of guys do other cool stuff other than opening bars and restaurants as well so don't think it has to be a bar or restaurant if that's not what you're into.

Anyway, I recommend taking that into account. If you can, set yourself up so you don't necessarily need to work but choose a place you would enjoy working and starting something in if/when you find yourself wanting to.

[Prince Charming]

(12-17-2018 11:34 PM)Graft Wrote:  

(12-17-2018 11:27 PM)Waqqle Wrote:  

(12-17-2018 11:23 PM)Graft Wrote:  

Lump sum of cash, pension is different. You don't have as much control, can't make any moves with the cash like downpayments, business investing etc.

Phils/Thailand can be a good option but not someplace I want to settle down indefinitely.

Have you got any specific countries in mind that you might want to settle in indefinitely or are you planning to not settle indefinitely at all and keep bouncing around? There are two different strategies for both of these options. Also, what is your nationality? That actually does make a difference and there are certain treaties and things like that which can give you an edge in certain countries.

Nationality is American, I have a darker mediterranean look.

I think 2-3k/mo can give me most of the options I'd look for. I'd be interested in the first or second most prominent city in any country I'd live in. Medellin, Belgrade, Kiev, Split, possibly even Mexico City.

I retired in medellin on around 300k usd. Until I dont want to live with roomates anymore I dont have to work ever again while still increasing networth. Im frugal but high standard of living by north american standards.

[yankeetravels]

I mean, I'm coming from a much younger perspective than most of the other responders so take mine as you will. A couple of key notes above fit my response.

(12-17-2018 11:39 PM)GT777733 Wrote:  

- factor in your future life goals. Don't base this all around moving to just enjoy the next few years or to go find a girlfriend in the next few years. You've got a life to live after that too

You don't want to risk coming back to the US in a few years on bare bones and having missed the chance to compound your money or having lost that income earning opportunity

I know you're 27 or 28 so time is precious, but, I'd rather go across at say 30 or 31 with an extra few hundred thousand and allow that money to work for me and cover my future risks in life much better

The other option is you go over there with the intention to work part time (remotely through your current job) or build an extra income over the next few years so you have something to fall back on when you come back or to see you into the future if you stay

Being in your 20's or 30's can be tough with making those sorts of decisions - because you're constantly weighing up making the most of your youth vs covering yourself for the future. It probably does depend on the individual's goals to an extent

Age is a big factor in decisions like this. I'm in my mid 20's myself. I have taken in both sides of this story. You don't get the travel opportunities you do in your 20's, but your 20's is also the time where you have the most drive to make money. Both statements I've heard from older people. Personally, I've always believed money isn't everything, but with that said, you should have a remote income stream if you go abroad for more than a year or two. One thing you have to take in is that if you spend too much of your golden years working 9-5, you may not have time to travel the world when you're older. I've seen friends and relatives die earlier than they should and not get to enjoy what they built their entire lives plus have been around the elderly enough to realize what opportunities you lose when you age.

(12-17-2018 11:12 PM)Waqqle Wrote:  

*One possible edge that EE might have over SEA is that, barring maybe Cambodia or Indonesia, it is highly unlikely that you will ever become a citizen in a SEA country (though permanent residency is entirely possible, especially if you get married to a local). I know of one German guy who acquired Philippine citizenship by throwing an unknown sum (I heard it was around $1mil USD) at the process and opening a big movie studio and film school on Mactan Island (Michael Gleisner and it's called Bigfoot Studios). He had to give up his German citizenship to do so though because, while the Philippines allows its native-born citizens to acquire other nationalities, naturalized foreigners are technically required to renounce other nationalities (though, there is sort of a loophole for this if you are American that I can tell you about if you are interested). By contrast, EE countries tend to have friendlier naturalization laws and it is realistically possible to acquire dual citizenship and be able to have all the rights that come with it in several if not all EE countries.

This isn't true for the Philippines. I've seen Americans with Filipino passports. There are a few ways you can get one. You either have to live in the Philippines continuously for several consecutive years or the easier way, marry a naturalized Filipina. But, from what my friends down there tell me, they don't seem to find it even worth it to become a citizen given how friendly the visa situation is right now.

I will admit though it seems more like a pain in the ass in Thailand based on what I hear. Can't comment on Vietnam. All the countries are cheap enough right now to stay for a while though based on OP's budget.

(12-18-2018 12:27 AM)Waqqle Wrote:  

(12-18-2018 12:10 AM)Graft Wrote:  

I'm surprised at all the answers above 500k. I would have changed the poll responses.

500k is a lot of money for abroad, probably 20 good years just living off the cash with no interest.

I could theoretically do 100k easily, I just don't want to come back ready to start a family with $50,000 and no job. If I need more than a couple of years I'm doing it very wrong.

In my experience, I never saw anyone just retire in the Philippines and do nothing for the rest of their life (and I saw a lot of guys "retire" there). We think that we want to just not ever work again and that we will never get bored of not having to do anything. But you will get bored, usually after about 3-6 months, and you will want to engage in some kind of work. This is why you always see guys opening bars and restaurants in SEA. They almost never need the money. They just want to work on something. I've seen a lot of guys do other cool stuff other than opening bars and restaurants as well so don't think it has to be a bar or restaurant if that's not what you're into.

Anyway, I recommend taking that into account. If you can, set yourself up so you don't necessarily need to work but choose a place you would enjoy working and starting something in if/when you find yourself wanting to.

I'm not sure if I'd be starting a brick and mortar business in a country like the Phils, but your overall point on working is one that should be echoed. I don't even like to work that much and I find myself bored a lot at home when I'm not working (and I work about 40-50 hours a week now). This can happen when your work is not engaging enough or you are just living frugally or have less investment/roots in your local area. As the great Morgan Freeman said in Shawshank Redemption "a man will do almost anything to kill time." Seriously though, even in the US, I've seen retired guys get actively involved in the local community just because they needed something else to do to fill their days from helping out in the soup kitchen, playing senior league sports, being on a town council. Basically things that might be boring to us younger guys but for them it serves a good purpose in their lives.


Anyway, to answer the original question, it seems important to have some remote/passive income for around $2k a month it seems. If we're talking a lump sum for a guy almost 30, personally I think I would need close to $1 million to feel comfortable moving permanently IF I did not plan on having any income come in over the years. That would last about 40 years on the above budget and you'd be good for emergency money.

Take the above with a grain of salt though. I tend to be a conservative guy when it comes to saving money. I would be willing to do it for less, that's just my 100% comfortable answer. There are guys that go abroad with nothing though, some even with debt that have made something of themselves by moving. Plenty of forum members probably have those type of stories.

(12-17-2018 11:48 PM)Flux Wrote:  

It's unwise to leave your home permanently, you'll become unrooted and experience the full pressures of being an outsider. It's really a last resort.

I'm a market investor and could, but would never permanently relocate, unless it's Monaco or Switzerland for tax purposes. I would be married then, and I wouldn't go to find a wife--you're honestly 100% more likely to find one within your own culture and social circle.

Find a suitable one, with people that aren't part of the cultural collapse.

There are still good people here.

This is kind of a conservative answer if I'm being honest. Not everybody that goes abroad goes broke or falls. Like I said, I've talked to plenty of guys on the forum that have made better lives of themselves leaving their homelands. Though, I'll admit I think it's easier if you already feel unrooted in your home country. I tend to lean that way and I don't think I'm the only one here that does.

[CleanSlate]

Picked 300-500 as my answer, but of course that assumes you'll be working remotely while living abroad. If you never want to work a day again in your life, then you need at least 1MM or more.

[Waqqle]

(12-18-2018 01:03 AM)yankeetravels Wrote:  

This isn't true for the Philippines. I've seen Americans with Filipino passports. There are a few ways you can get one. You either have to live in the Philippines continuously for several consecutive years or the easier way, marry a naturalized Filipina. But, from what my friends down there tell me, they don't seem to find it even worth it to become a citizen given how friendly the visa situation is right now.

I will admit though it seems more like a pain in the ass in Thailand based on what I hear. Can't comment on Vietnam. All the countries are cheap enough right now to stay for a while though based on OP's budget.

Can I PM you? I was trying to figure out how to get a Philippine passport the entire time I was living there and could not find anyone who managed to do it without getting married, having Filipino blood, never leaving at any point for 10+ years, or just throwing heaps of money at someone. if you know how to pull it off or know someone who can hook me up, I would love to ask you about it because it is still something I want to do. I do not care as much about visas as I do about being able to own property, have full ownership of my own business(es), and be allowed to engage in any kind of work without restriction.

[EEnomad]

(12-18-2018 12:10 AM)Graft Wrote:  

I'm surprised at all the answers above 500k. I would have changed the poll responses.

500k is a lot of money for abroad, probably 20 good years just living off the cash with no interest.

I could theoretically do 100k easily, I just don't want to come back ready to start a family with $50,000 and no job. If I need more than a couple of years I'm doing it very wrong.

You contradict your own thread title here. If you are away indefinitely, you don't want to be eating into the principal.

In which case, Lampwick is absolutely right. You mention more aggressive investing styles getting >10%, ok then describe them.

I don't believe you have done them before because if you did you wouldn't be here asking because you would have already crunched the math and determined the risk and probability.

Advice to you: take a year off and spend some cash. Go back to work. If you have to ask the question in your thread title, you don't yet know. Neither about money, lifestyle or being abroad.

[bacon]

Personally, I would be more than fine on anywhere from 1,500- 2k a month in SEA and Latin America. Having lived as expat in these countries I know that works for me.

I wouldn't want to sell off stocks to get the 6% as this could really backfire in the event of a bear market. I think you could probably buy a dozen blue chip dividend stocks (dividend aristocrats for example) with yields in the 3-6% range (think Exxon, AT&T, P&G, PM, McDonalds, Coke) along with a few very solid Utility and REIT companies and you could safely get 4-5 percent a year from dividends along with long term stock appreciation. So basically 600-700k and that completely passive dividend outflow would be enough. You could also do ok buying a rental property with decent rental yields and hiring a property management company to do all the work while you are abroad. The issue with that is it is less liquid and many property markets are at high evaluations right now which would affect your rental return.

The only assets for dividends I would not touch are royalty and streaming companies since that is way more risk for a little more yield.

Also, since most guys are not gonna get to that lump sum of over half a million, I do think it can work for many guys to start a new life abroad with significantly less (maybe a few years of living expenses and I have friends on RVF who made it work with a few grand). Once you are abroad you can test out making money online by learning a remote skill like programming/starting a e commerce business, or even opening a brick and mortar business as many older expats often do. If all else fails you could earn at least 1k a month doing English teaching online.

[MongolianAbroad]

This thought process is the less efficient way to go about it.

Work on earning remote income, preferably passive or close to it, not on saving cash. There's nothing like achieving freedom in your late 20's, early 30's, with your whole life ahead of you.

If you succeed, you'll feel like this every day:





Well, there will be some down days, but you get the gist of it.

[Shimmy]

Your net worth should be going up every year. If you are lowering your net worth yearly because you want to escape to some third world shit hole and live like a local you should re-evaluate your strategy. What happens when you're 70 and blew through all of your money? Do you think you're going to go get a job somewhere for $300 a month as a security guard?

[WhatTheFuck]

The idea that there is some mythical number you need to accumulate in your bank account first before traveling is one of the main things keeps people from ever leaving the couch. Even if you get to 500k, you're still going to be worrying that it isn't going to be enough. You'll always have that voice in the back of your head will tell you, "what if something goes wrong, maybe I should just wait until I get to a million instead, then go". Then a million becomes 1.5 and so forth.

Better to just pull the plug and buy that ticket in my opinion, figure the rest out later.

Of course you don't want to be completely broke. That would add a lot of stress to your life. But if you set off with 10k-50k and a plan to make a little remote income, you should be more than fine.

[Graft]

(12-18-2018 03:54 AM)EEnomad Wrote:  

(12-18-2018 12:10 AM)Graft Wrote:  

I'm surprised at all the answers above 500k. I would have changed the poll responses.

500k is a lot of money for abroad, probably 20 good years just living off the cash with no interest.

I could theoretically do 100k easily, I just don't want to come back ready to start a family with $50,000 and no job. If I need more than a couple of years I'm doing it very wrong.

You contradict your own thread title here. If you are away indefinitely, you don't want to be eating into the principal.

In which case, Lampwick is absolutely right. You mention more aggressive investing styles getting >10%, ok then describe them.

I don't believe you have done them before because if you did you wouldn't be here asking because you would have already crunched the math and determined the risk and probability.

Advice to you: take a year off and spend some cash. Go back to work. If you have to ask the question in your thread title, you don't yet know. Neither about money, lifestyle or being abroad.

Some stocks give 10% dividend but that is rare, probably better to do growth stocks and take profits if you want that high from equities.

High performing REITS can get around the 10% range, real estate crowdfunding and peer to peer lending can be a little higher as well.

Another idea is to spend 50k or so on empire flippers for a simple site that has consistent $2k monthly profits. If it goes bust you still have a modest income from the interest.