[John Michael Kane]

I think it is also important to define the difference between SMV and Marriage Market Value or MMV. Many men are just fine marrying the "cute" if not "hot" girl if she has a pleasant personality. Right now, there's a lack of cute or hot girls, combined with a lack of girls with good personalities. That's a major reason why things are so lopsided. The subset of cute/hot and also nice girls are a minority in the West at this point in time. That's why so many men, myself included, are looking outside of the West for a wife.

[Flux]

It's simply wealth.

If a man's ability to provide food and shelter is not needed, then he needs to be a good lover or women won't see any benefit. Unfortunately a lot of men are not born to be good lovers, and so they struggle in today's market. The lover is good looking, exciting, unpredictable, but kind and sensitive. Basically your Brad Pitt's and Dicaprio's--they do good no matter the era. Masculine men without sensitivity can get pussy but no long term prospects, and sensitive guys with no masculinity can get girlfriends, but at the cost of whatever balls they have. Incels are incels, and as far as I know have always existed; they're the first to die at the battlefield.

Today you can pump and dump women like never before, but they are crazier and more damaged, most went to therapy in their teens, had depression, and aren't dealing with the modern world too well... Positives and negatives that's all it is--no time is better or worse if you're strong and good at adapting.

I think the world is very similar today as it was when we were cavemen: survival of the fittest.

[Donfitz007]

Robert Greene calls those type of guys...ideal lovers in his book the art of seduction

[kaotic]

(11-08-2018 04:17 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 03:56 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 03:16 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 02:58 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

So saying that the crisis of female obesity is not a big deal because men are also increasingly obese misses the point. It's true, but it doesn't matter because they two aren't directly comparable. Men are fatter, but a man can be thirty or forty pounds overweight and still have an enormous SMV if his other attributes are on point. That's simply impossible for a woman. A woman putting on forty pounds of fat cuts her SMV in half, where a guy who is otherwise well-put-together might only go down a point.

LOL sure there buddy

Scorpion gives a very valid and educated response and all you can do is "lol" like a child.

Obvious game denialist is obvious.

At least give an educated rebuttal about being an incel or MGTOW then please.

If anything, being overweight hurts women less, because of their more favourable fat distribution patterns in the face and body relative to men. A man who tips 20% bodyfat becomes a bloated walrus-pylon hybrid. But whatever, keep believing that a fat man can have a "massive SMV", short of being a millionaire or celebrity, and crank out words like "incel" and "MGTOW" like an NPC whenever someone disagrees. I wonder what quests I need to complete to unlock more dialogue options.

Quest? I think yours would be to wreck another fatty right, moby dick is a good quest I can link you to.

NPC? Let me finish the line, oh look an NPC calling everyone else NPC.

If you think a fat woman hurts less when it comes to SMV then men then I have a bridge to sell you.

You're not getting it at all.

A woman will overlook a slightly overweight man if he's excelling at everything else versus a man overlooking an overweight woman.

I'm not talking massive SMV at all.

[Flux]

To add on to my previous post, you can't look to society to make up for your weaknesses; that's what Women and SJWs want; to mould society to benefit them.

You can't get laid? Lets change the world so you can! Can't find a wife? Let's change society so you can find one!

This only leads to whining and no beneficial action. The reality is that there is no need for men to be providers because we're so damn wealthy, so you either bring your qualities as a lover, or you become powerful, famous, or extraordinarily good at something, and raise your status that way.

The paths are there, and everyone knows about them, they just don't have the will to do it. Some seem to be born to complain, like women.

[LexisNexis]

(11-08-2018 06:11 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 04:17 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 03:56 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 03:16 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 02:58 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

So saying that the crisis of female obesity is not a big deal because men are also increasingly obese misses the point. It's true, but it doesn't matter because they two aren't directly comparable. Men are fatter, but a man can be thirty or forty pounds overweight and still have an enormous SMV if his other attributes are on point. That's simply impossible for a woman. A woman putting on forty pounds of fat cuts her SMV in half, where a guy who is otherwise well-put-together might only go down a point.

LOL sure there buddy

Scorpion gives a very valid and educated response and all you can do is "lol" like a child.

Obvious game denialist is obvious.

At least give an educated rebuttal about being an incel or MGTOW then please.

If anything, being overweight hurts women less, because of their more favourable fat distribution patterns in the face and body relative to men. A man who tips 20% bodyfat becomes a bloated walrus-pylon hybrid. But whatever, keep believing that a fat man can have a "massive SMV", short of being a millionaire or celebrity, and crank out words like "incel" and "MGTOW" like an NPC whenever someone disagrees. I wonder what quests I need to complete to unlock more dialogue options.

Quest? I think yours would be to wreck another fatty right, moby dick is a good quest I can link you to.

NPC? Let me finish the line, oh look an NPC calling everyone else NPC.

If you think a fat woman hurts less when it comes to SMV then men then I have a bridge to sell you.

You're not getting it at all.

A woman will overlook a slightly overweight man if he's excelling at everything else versus a man overlooking an overweight woman.

I'm not talking massive SMV at all.

Wasn't the bulk of your game banging doughy socal Mexican chicks off Tinder? Never seemed to stop you.

[kaotic]

(11-08-2018 06:53 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  

Wasn't the bulk of your game banging doughy socal Mexican chicks off Tinder? Never seemed to stop you.

Nope not at all, but if all you got are weak passive aggressive remarks and no logic to debate, you're more than welcome to act like a jaded female.

Or we can come back to the topic of fat women vs fat men.

Fat men will always have the advantage over fat women - all things being equal.

[LexisNexis]

(11-08-2018 07:04 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 06:53 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  

Wasn't the bulk of your game banging doughy socal Mexican chicks off Tinder? Never seemed to stop you.

Nope not at all, but if all you got are weak passive aggressive remarks and no logic to debate, you're more than welcome to act like a jaded female.

Or we can come back to the topic of fat women vs fat men.

Fat men will always have the advantage over fat women - all things being equal.

But you have no logic. Literally you are just restating your opinion and throwing around invective, nothing more. You are no different than what you claim to be against.

[Rhyme or Reason]

(11-08-2018 06:00 PM)Donfitz007 Wrote:  

Robert Greene calls those type of guys...ideal lovers in his book the art of seduction

Who wouldn't want to learn game from this guy:

[Donfitz007]

I mean honestly it has let me down, I’m new and still a beginner but his books have helped ALOT...sure he isn’t a Roosh but I feel his books work for somebody who wants to be powerful. May not be THE guide but it’s a very helpful marker.

[kaotic]

(11-08-2018 07:11 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 07:04 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 06:53 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  

Wasn't the bulk of your game banging doughy socal Mexican chicks off Tinder? Never seemed to stop you.

Nope not at all, but if all you got are weak passive aggressive remarks and no logic to debate, you're more than welcome to act like a jaded female.

Or we can come back to the topic of fat women vs fat men.

Fat men will always have the advantage over fat women - all things being equal.

But you have no logic. Literally you are just restating your opinion and throwing around invective, nothing more. You are no different than what you claim to be against.

Go back to Scorpions statement, explain in detail how he's wrong like an adult would.

I don't think you're right at all about how fat is "distributed" in male versus female, especially in this days and age of shitty food and nutrition.

I'd say yes, maybe back in olden times, but nowhere near in these times.

An overweight woman has no leverage with SMV compare to a man. That's not hard to understand.

Being overweight ABSOLUTELY hurts a woman, in more ways that one.

[Donfitz007]

Kaotic, I don’t know you personally but I like a lot of your post on here. But I have noticed you tend to argue with people who don’t deserve the time.

In my opinion however, both of u have a slight point.
Overweight men within reason can have a massive SMV. Powerlifters, football players, comedians, or just any type of rich guys high fans guy can be fat and still slay.

Overweight women on the other hand have a higher base SMV. The fat on them do infact go to desirable areas first (in the best cases) the @iskra girl i mentioned before is the perfect example of that......but that’s it. Most of a woman’s SMV comes from their physical looks. A funny fat guy can probably bang a 7-9 of lucky. A funny fat chick wouldn’t be able to get a 7-9 to marry her.

[Steve McQueen]

Women are just really dumb, our overlords are exploiting that and laughing at us attempting to coax a bunch of idiots back to the negotiation table. They won't because they have everything they need except a future. Men see that, women do not.

[chicane]

Even strippers today are nowhere near as hot as ones 20 years ago. On average they are a lot fatter as well as being bitchier.

[kaotic]

Don, you're probably right about that.

To be fair I'm pretty sure Iskra isn't all natural (I'm talking fat injections), but that chick is fat in my book. That's a good example but rare.

She's also a "model" so she has a niche she's going after, dudes who like those "thicc" girls so in her case, she does have the advantage.

A chick like Amy Schumer ain't getting top end dick.

[LexisNexis]

(11-08-2018 07:16 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 07:11 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 07:04 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(11-08-2018 06:53 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  

Wasn't the bulk of your game banging doughy socal Mexican chicks off Tinder? Never seemed to stop you.

Nope not at all, but if all you got are weak passive aggressive remarks and no logic to debate, you're more than welcome to act like a jaded female.

Or we can come back to the topic of fat women vs fat men.

Fat men will always have the advantage over fat women - all things being equal.

But you have no logic. Literally you are just restating your opinion and throwing around invective, nothing more. You are no different than what you claim to be against.

Go back to Scorpions statement, explain in detail how he's wrong like an adult would.

I don't think you're right at all about how fat is "distributed" in male versus female, especially in this days and age of shitty food and nutrition.

I'd say yes, maybe back in olden times, but nowhere near in these times.

An overweight woman has no leverage with SMV compare to a man. That's not hard to understand.

Being overweight ABSOLUTELY hurts a woman, in more ways that one.

If you want a logical argument to end it all then here it is. You're here making a moral grandstand that no one may DARE question about how overweight men are superior to overweight women, meanwhile in your real life you are literally on steroids to write lay reports about the next flabby chick who picked you on Bumble. Your actions speak louder than your words ever could.

[kaotic]

(11-08-2018 07:45 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  

If you want a logical argument to end it all then here it is. You're here making a moral grandstand that no one may DARE question about how overweight men are superior to overweight women, meanwhile in your real life you are literally on steroids to write lay reports about the next flabby chick who picked you on Bumble. Your actions speak louder than your words ever could.

Actually no, I'm not saying don't question, I'm countering saying I think you're wrong, and you still won't go into detail about why you think Scorpion is absolutely wrong.

You just "lol" and go off insulting.

Actually I'm not, I cycled off also ironic from a guy who was giving advice in the Test thread.

Lmao that's all you got? I've got at least 30 guys from RVF who can confirm the girls I bang, and they sure can confirming they ain't flabby chicks from Bumble.

Boy you sound really angry...

Why do I get the feeling you're just a little angry incel who can't game in Toronto?

There's no need to project on me brother, you sure seem to hate Indians or are yourself an IRT.

Anyways, I'll let you have the last word, I'm done bickering, DonFitz is right.

[66Scorpio]

Women, in the west, are so entitled that they don't care anymore. They think they can be fat and/or bitchy and still land a top guy.

Many men simply don't care. If their best will land them an HB6 Shrew, then why bother. Porn, fap and League of Legends gives far more thrills for the time in.

But what do I know? I live in China with my Filipina wife.

[rudebwoy]

Being a fat guy hurts more than being a fat girl.

I am talking about in the West, not FSU, not EE, not Asia and not Latin America.

Fat girls in the west have boyfriends and husbands, even obsese chicks have partners as well.

Many times guys have posted how in Australia, jacked dudes date chubby girls. I wouldn't say Canada is much better and judging by this forum you can insert any western country.

The competition is fierce and getting worst, the quality of decent looking women has declined for some time now in the West.

Fat guys don't get love, I don't care how much charisma or money they have. True, not every girl wants a super jacked guy but being fat is the kiss of the death for a man.

Guys bust their asses in the gym to lose weight and gain a little muscle. I don't see anywhere the same amount of dedication from girls, their attitude is that they don't need to because they can always find a guy.

The girls that workout the hardest that I know are strippers. As someone stated before, I even see many strippers with ugly bodies and yet they still make money.

[Sombro]

There are many reasons for this failure that all basically fall under the umbrella of Leftist Rot (i.e. All roads lead to Splintering the Family --> Dependence on Govt.) that's been seeping through the culture for the last 50 years.

As we know, the last line of defense is the most important line of defense.

And this is where the true, final failure lies: the failure of parents to defend -- nay, bolster -- their kids against the rot, where instead they ignore the shallow decadence and infantilization, or are all too often complicit in it.

[kaotic]

@rudebwoy you know that's a very good point, I didn't think about that that way, I'm thinking about a fat guy whose successful, not just your average schlub, so I gotta walk that point back.

The Australian example is a very good point about jacked chads get mediocre girls I remember that thread very well.

There's always guys that say "fat girls need loving too" and there's a niche for guys who go whale chasing, even as a joke.

You never hear about a girl who chases after fat dudes (even if they're balling).

For the average fat guy, you're right they don't love at all.

[Flux]

I have a friend who's pretty fat that gets girls... He's 6'4 and good looking, but I'm better looking than he is, and he can still keep up. Every time we go out, we get girls in pairs in the 6-7 range without trying.

He's not obese though, they're the ones that are fucked.

[Noir]

I alluded to a few reasons in the 'How is game changing' thread but let's be real, shit is competitive.

Women have more options than ever.

Men are improving faster than ever.

It's similar to the job market, this information age has provided so many more tools for self-improvement to men and a feedback mechanism that naturally, a lot of them have improved.

Combine that with making it easier for them to be found by women, you have a very reduced answer to your question.

You talk about how men are declining etc... It doesn't matter.

Same way that I am out and there are 12 unattractive women and 3 attractive women. I don't even notice the unattractive ones, they don't appear on my radar.

Same for women and note, attractive != hot.

Being a fat guy sucks because if you can't get your appearance and presentation in order, how am I gonna believe you got your life in order?

Very basic response but it's just that women have more options, men have become less demanding etc etc.

Personally, I don't think it's as big of an issue as people here make it out to be but again, I run in certain circles, have game and enjoy success with hot women so I am aware of my biases towards this.

[Barney]

Wealth...

Feminism doesn't exist in poor countries because the women there rely on men for survival and protection so they can't stab them in the back just yet. Once they've extracted enough wealth and life is comfortable enough they will discard them like Western women have.

[OCZ]

(11-07-2018 01:48 PM)corsega Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 01:12 PM)gework Wrote:  

From reading here it seems like this year has been a banner year in The West for the decline of male SMV.

You could have made this post every year since the inception of this forum.

Every year, there's a select group of guys that will whine to no end about how the sky is falling.

Yet if you think about it logically, "the decline of male SMV" makes no logical sense.

Until women figure out a way to reproduce by themselves, male sexual market value will remain constant. It is not in decline.

What I think the old heads are complaining about is that male SMV is changing and they are feeling left out. Gone are the strong alpha males, the Paul Newmans and Marlon Brandos of yesteryear. , they lament.

But so it goes. Values do not decline, they change. In the age of social media, Fame is now more important than Game. And some guys will cling to their old beliefs until they finally figure that out.

I agree with this, but I believe game will always be there. The mechanics of game are changing and it is hard to accept it. As someone said before, men became a comodity and not a necessity so we need to seel ourself in a different way.