[Shemp]

Ancel Keys research was flawed but that was because he didn't have much in the way of statistics to work with. He wasn't cherry picking and didn't have an agenda, at least initially. Doctors in WW2 noticed that Japanese (who ate a very lean diet then, with little meat and no dairy and very low saturated fat) had very clean arteries compared to Americans. It was also known that Finns had horrific incidence of heart disease. So Ancel Keys and other doctors speculated and saturated fat consumption stuck out as a differentiator. But it might have been pre-diabetes from excess sugar, which Americans have always eaten in large quantity. There was also the French paradox, since the French, like the Finns, eat huge amounts of saturated dairy fat but unlike the Finns, have little heart disease. My own view is that saturated fat is okay under certain circumstances, such as combined with lots of fruit or vegetables, for people not pre-diabetic. Cheese and salad or fresh apples washed down by red wine is safe, but pizza (cheese on white bread) washed down by coca cola is not, is what I believe currently.

As for red meat, my concern is the correlation with colon cancer and aging. BTW meat is not that high in saturated fat. Most of meat fat is monounsaturated. I eat meat when nothing else is available but I don't much care for it. My natural diet, the one I prefer and which is easiest to follow, is a Mediterranean diet, with olive oil replaced by 70% dark chocolate, lots of dairy and sardines but little meat.

[Syberpunk]

Ancel Keys had plenty of information, but choose to plough on in his crusade anyway, going out of the way to disparge and write 13 pages editorials on anyone who dared challenged him or his "Mediterranean diet" The very definition of an ideologue, and ruined many others careers. Even to his death, he still hung on to his flawed science and the whole media complex behind him to help him.

Keys has sent many as people to their graves due to his insistence on what not to eat than any 20th century mass murderer, the kind of food we had eaten for all human history in large amounts, and getting us off natural inclinations.

Basically he was the SJW Nutrition thought leader of the day and still is long after his death.

The Big Fat Surprise, by Nina Teicholz is the book for this.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

The Soygeddon is upon us!

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Regarding the demonization of animal fat consumption, I've recently seen a New York Times article (yes NYT, but the article is not #fakenews at all) detailing how the studies condemning fats were funded or supported by the sugar industry: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/...o-fat.html

Quote:

How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

The sugar industry paid scientists in the 1960s to play down the link between sugar and heart disease and promote saturated fat as the culprit instead, newly released historical documents show.

The internal sugar industry documents, recently discovered by a researcher at the University of California, San Francisco, and published Monday in JAMA Internal Medicine, suggest that five decades of research into the role of nutrition and heart disease, including many of today’s dietary recommendations, may have been largely shaped by the sugar industry.

“They were able to derail the discussion about sugar for decades,” said Stanton Glantz, a professor of medicine at U.C.S.F. and an author of the JAMA Internal Medicine paper.

The documents show that a trade group called the Sugar Research Foundation, known today as the Sugar Association, paid three Harvard scientists the equivalent of about $50,000 in today’s dollars to publish a 1967 review of research on sugar, fat and heart disease. The studies used in the review were handpicked by the sugar group, and the article, which was published in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine, minimized the link between sugar and heart health and cast aspersions on the role of saturated fat.

Even though the influence-peddling revealed in the documents dates back nearly 50 years, more recent reports show that the food industry has continued to influence nutrition science.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

(10-30-2018 04:42 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

People kill me with the "saturated fat is bad for you" argument. Ancel Keys' research is so outdated yet million of Westerns cling to that erroneous idea with the tenacity of mid-20's woman clinging to her iPhone or Venti Frappuccino.

Tom Naughton who produced the documentary 'Fathead' stated that if the truth got out, organization like the American Heart Association would be facing class action lawsuits. To this day AHA clings to these non-clinical studies showing 'fat bad' (having a brain fart as I can't remember the name of these type of studies). Thankfully, there are now clinical studies being done that show high fat, high cholesterol diets are in fact good.

I have coworkers who are overweight and on statins. I urge them to change their diets and see if they repeat my experience (down 43 lbs of fat so far, triglycerides dropped to under 85, sperm count / quality improved 250%*, chronic migraines gone).

None will do it. They are still amazed that I haven't dropped dead from going high fat, even though I went from borderline obese to fitting nicely in size 34 waist pants.

*Wife & I were trying to have a kid (successful!), so that is why I kept getting tested.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

Paging hv123:

I tried to respond to your PM about this thread, but you have your account set to not receive private messages.

[Laner]

Canada is pushing its 'Post Nationalist' agenda hard. Our Dear Leader is on his way out, and there is an all out push to get agendas into law before this happens. And if not law, for sure into the mainstream thought.

The war on Alberta started back in the 70's. Ottawa (Trudeau the Elder) tried to tax, regulate and ultimately destroy Alberta - and with it its independent mindset. It almost worked, but those cowboys and oilmen are hardy.

Then it was immigration from the maritime, Somalia and Sudan.

Then it was Trudeau the Idiot.

The agriculture industry in Alberta is a target for the left. Any university in Alberta has all sorts of propaganda about how eating meat is killing the ozone layer/air/soil/gaya/earth/poor people/Africans/etc. Its everywhere.

This latest mainstream wave of propaganda is no different, and is only targeted at the NPC type folk who will post it on social media and feel virtuous for a minute as their stomachs rumble and their vitamin levels deplete.

I think I only know a couple vegans. I only know this because their social media is full of wellness stuff and fluffy sweaters and mens giant hats worn on their heads while they drink wine on the beach for their instagram.

[TravelerKai]

(10-31-2018 08:37 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(10-31-2018 07:56 PM)911 Wrote:  

Great quality specialty sausages are like $1-$2 a pop, no need to cut corners there.

Beef isn't all that expensive in Canada, the key is not to shop in chains, but in local supermarkets, where the produce is also cheaper. A steak is $3-$7, depending on the cut, often cheaper than a Big Mac. Those markets tend to be owned by Italian, Greek or Portuguese. They also know their seafood.

I live in Canada, I don't eat much meat.

When I do, I buy good steaks that are $20 each minimum.

I have never seen a $7 steak, not even at Walmart.

(10-31-2018 09:19 PM)christpuncher Wrote:  

Veganism has spread through an entire half of my family by my cousin marrying a militant vegan girl a while back. And their kids are little soy boys already.

Prices vary by however fancy your tastes are. You can stock up on cheap pork and chicken that goes on sale for $2/lb regularly. Ground beef is $4-5/lb normally. Premium steaks go on sale for $8-10/lb regularly Or grass fed ribeyes for $35/lb. Salmon is $11/lb.

Organic/grassfed meat is 2-3 times more expensive and often appears to be older meat and there is far less selection. Is it worth the extra $200+ a month to switch over? I'm just not convinced it isn't mainly hippy shit for sucking money out of yuppies. Should I rethink?

I already am switched over to organic butter, coconut oil and premium olive oil exclusively, for cooking. But that's only like $10/month extra.

Say Rude aren't you in Toronto area? The prices CP quoted are pretty high. It would stand to reason that certain provinces are going to have different price ranges.

BTW 11/lb salmon is expensive! I would imagine it would be cheaper up there. That's what wild salmon costs in Houston. Farm salmon is a little bit less. Beef in Texas is waaay less than what you guys pay, but we have an abundance of that here and we are known for that.

[TravelerKai]

I would feel bad for you Canadians but you guys have arguably some of the best hunting on Earth! I cannot imagine how much freezer space I would need to put all that elk, deer, or even moose meat from one kill. In some parts you guys have great fishing too, but I bet our small deer and other game pales in comparison to what you guys have. If the grocery store is a rip off, stock your freezer with venison. Venison is multiple times more healthy than beef is, grass-fed or not.

[Laner]

(11-01-2018 01:45 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

I would feel bad for you Canadians but you guys have arguably some of the best hunting on Earth! I cannot imagine how much freezer space I would need to put all that elk, deer, or even moose meat from one kill. In some parts you guys have great fishing too, but I bet our small deer and other game pales in comparison to what you guys have. If the grocery store is a rip off, stock your freezer with venison. Venison is multiple times more healthy than beef is, grass-fed or not.

There has also been a massive push for Canadians to stay out of hunting. The area set aside as preserve has probably tripled in my life. And there is a push for even more. Don't be surprised if in our life, most of the wilderness areas in Canada are protected.

Already hunting spots are over run with people. Bears walk toward gunshots now, as its a dinner bell for them.

Canada has essentially leap frogged the west in regards to ultra progressive initiatives. The experiment has been largely a success, with the exception of Alberta. But even that is changing.

The saving grace is that most Canadians outside the cities have no clue what is going on, and are not even thinking that any of their ways need changing.

[scotian]

(11-01-2018 12:39 PM)Laner Wrote:  

Canada is pushing its 'Post Nationalist' agenda hard. Our Dear Leader is on his way out, and there is an all out push to get agendas into law before this happens. And if not law, for sure into the mainstream thought.

The war on Alberta started back in the 70's. Ottawa (Trudeau the Elder) tried to tax, regulate and ultimately destroy Alberta - and with it its independent mindset. It almost worked, but those cowboys and oilmen are hardy.

Then it was immigration from the maritime, Somalia and Sudan.

Then it was Trudeau the Idiot.

The agriculture industry in Alberta is a target for the left. Any university in Alberta has all sorts of propaganda about how eating meat is killing the ozone layer/air/soil/gaya/earth/poor people/Africans/etc. Its everywhere.

This latest mainstream wave of propaganda is no different, and is only targeted at the NPC type folk who will post it on social media and feel virtuous for a minute as their stomachs rumble and their vitamin levels deplete.

I think I only know a couple vegans. I only know this because their social media is full of wellness stuff and fluffy sweaters and mens giant hats worn on their heads while they drink wine on the beach for their instagram.

[img][/img]

[Labienus]

He also introduced multiculturalism to Canada, his most devastating policy.

He was our worst Prime Minister until his idiotic son became Prime minister.

Going back to the topic at hand, I agree with TravelerKai about hunting. Once I have my hunting license, I will hunt deer every year and pack my freezer.

[redpillage]

(10-30-2018 09:51 PM)JohnKreese Wrote:  

This is gonna make it even easier for Peterson's daughter to cash in on her dad's fame

That's some good looking meat. And yes I'm talking about what's on the plate.

[rudebwoy]

Kai - Yes I am in Toronto and the prices are high for beef. Walmart claims to sell AAA beef steaks for $10, I wouldn't trust that meat.

Salmon isn't cheap either and you have to do a good search to find wild salmon. Getting fresh food here isn't easy, talk to anyone from coastal cities in Canada and they don't touch the seafood here.

Game meat isn't that available in the big city.

[Laner]

(11-01-2018 03:48 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Kai - Yes I am in Toronto and the prices are high for beef. Walmart claims to sell AAA beef steaks for $10, I wouldn't trust that meat.

Salmon isn't cheap either and you have to do a good search to find wild salmon. Getting fresh food here isn't easy, talk to anyone from coastal cities in Canada and they don't touch the seafood here.

Game meat isn't that available in the big city.

Costco sells locally raised meat and fish, so I doubt that would do you much good in TO as far as Alberta AAA or Wild BC Sockeye, but its worth a shot. It brings the price of protein down to manageable levels for my family, anyways.

[rudebwoy]

Thanks Laner

I am not trying to consume more red meat or fish.

[ChefAllDay]

Actually most of the more liberal girls I know are reformed vegetarians and have just gotten back into eating red meat. It seems like the vegan era was mostly a millennial trend that is fading. The beyond meat burger is a joke. I don't eat meat but I want my burger to bleed? It's a lame marketing scam.

[911]

(11-01-2018 02:14 AM)Shemp Wrote:  

Ancel Keys research was flawed but that was because he didn't have much in the way of statistics to work with. He wasn't cherry picking and didn't have an agenda, at least initially. Doctors in WW2 noticed that Japanese (who ate a very lean diet then, with little meat and no dairy and very low saturated fat) had very clean arteries compared to Americans. It was also known that Finns had horrific incidence of heart disease. So Ancel Keys and other doctors speculated and saturated fat consumption stuck out as a differentiator. But it might have been pre-diabetes from excess sugar, which Americans have always eaten in large quantity. There was also the French paradox, since the French, like the Finns, eat huge amounts of saturated dairy fat but unlike the Finns, have little heart disease. My own view is that saturated fat is okay under certain circumstances, such as combined with lots of fruit or vegetables, for people not pre-diabetic. Cheese and salad or fresh apples washed down by red wine is safe, but pizza (cheese on white bread) washed down by coca cola is not, is what I believe currently.

As for red meat, my concern is the correlation with colon cancer and aging. BTW meat is not that high in saturated fat. Most of meat fat is monounsaturated. I eat meat when nothing else is available but I don't much care for it. My natural diet, the one I prefer and which is easiest to follow, is a Mediterranean diet, with olive oil replaced by 70% dark chocolate, lots of dairy and sardines but little meat.

You won't get colon cancer from red meat, provided you eat enough fiber/greens to go along.

[Nordwand]

We have a meat substitute named after the Prince of Darkness?

[flanders]

(11-02-2018 01:18 AM)911 Wrote:  

(11-01-2018 02:14 AM)Shemp Wrote:  

Ancel Keys research was flawed but that was because he didn't have much in the way of statistics to work with. He wasn't cherry picking and didn't have an agenda, at least initially. Doctors in WW2 noticed that Japanese (who ate a very lean diet then, with little meat and no dairy and very low saturated fat) had very clean arteries compared to Americans. It was also known that Finns had horrific incidence of heart disease. So Ancel Keys and other doctors speculated and saturated fat consumption stuck out as a differentiator. But it might have been pre-diabetes from excess sugar, which Americans have always eaten in large quantity. There was also the French paradox, since the French, like the Finns, eat huge amounts of saturated dairy fat but unlike the Finns, have little heart disease. My own view is that saturated fat is okay under certain circumstances, such as combined with lots of fruit or vegetables, for people not pre-diabetic. Cheese and salad or fresh apples washed down by red wine is safe, but pizza (cheese on white bread) washed down by coca cola is not, is what I believe currently.

As for red meat, my concern is the correlation with colon cancer and aging. BTW meat is not that high in saturated fat. Most of meat fat is monounsaturated. I eat meat when nothing else is available but I don't much care for it. My natural diet, the one I prefer and which is easiest to follow, is a Mediterranean diet, with olive oil replaced by 70% dark chocolate, lots of dairy and sardines but little meat.

You won't get colon cancer from red meat, provided you eat enough fiber/greens to go along.

Fiber is not food, and carries a host of health problems. I don't think anybody should be eating it in any quantity, unless they have four stomachs and chew the cud.

[Thot Leader]

(11-02-2018 01:11 PM)flanders Wrote:  

Fiber is not food, and carries a host of health problems. I don't think anybody should be eating it in any quantity, unless they have four stomachs and chew the cud.

So it's not needed to aid in the digestion and excretion of animal products? I suppose it depends on how you define "any quantity". When I take a teaspoon of ground psyllium husk a couple hours after dinner, it guarantees a glorious dump in the morning.

[flanders]

(11-02-2018 02:00 PM)Thot Leader Wrote:  

(11-02-2018 01:11 PM)flanders Wrote:  

Fiber is not food, and carries a host of health problems. I don't think anybody should be eating it in any quantity, unless they have four stomachs and chew the cud.

So it's not needed to aid in the digestion and excretion of animal products? I suppose it depends on how you define "any quantity". When I take a teaspoon of ground psyllium husk a couple hours after dinner, it guarantees a glorious dump in the morning.

It's not, no. Fiber is indigestible, why would it aid in digestion? All it can do is blow up in size in the stomach (3-5x its size in volume), get jammed in the duodenum, cause gallstones or pancreatitis, and scour the inner walls of the intestines on its way out. It binds to vital micronutrients and electrolytes and cause gas and bloating.

Put a teaspoon of that psyllium husk in water and see what happens. Do you think it's a good idea to eat it?

[rudebwoy]

(11-02-2018 01:18 AM)911 Wrote:  

(11-01-2018 02:14 AM)Shemp Wrote:  

Ancel Keys research was flawed but that was because he didn't have much in the way of statistics to work with. He wasn't cherry picking and didn't have an agenda, at least initially. Doctors in WW2 noticed that Japanese (who ate a very lean diet then, with little meat and no dairy and very low saturated fat) had very clean arteries compared to Americans. It was also known that Finns had horrific incidence of heart disease. So Ancel Keys and other doctors speculated and saturated fat consumption stuck out as a differentiator. But it might have been pre-diabetes from excess sugar, which Americans have always eaten in large quantity. There was also the French paradox, since the French, like the Finns, eat huge amounts of saturated dairy fat but unlike the Finns, have little heart disease. My own view is that saturated fat is okay under certain circumstances, such as combined with lots of fruit or vegetables, for people not pre-diabetic. Cheese and salad or fresh apples washed down by red wine is safe, but pizza (cheese on white bread) washed down by coca cola is not, is what I believe currently.

As for red meat, my concern is the correlation with colon cancer and aging. BTW meat is not that high in saturated fat. Most of meat fat is monounsaturated. I eat meat when nothing else is available but I don't much care for it. My natural diet, the one I prefer and which is easiest to follow, is a Mediterranean diet, with olive oil replaced by 70% dark chocolate, lots of dairy and sardines but little meat.

You won't get colon cancer from red meat, provided you eat enough fiber/greens to go along.

Sorry but this is incorrect.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/newslette...lon-cancer

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/re...el-cancer/

https://www.cancernetwork.com/article/le...eat-intake

[Thot Leader]

(11-02-2018 02:57 PM)flanders Wrote:  

It's not, no. Fiber is indigestible, why would it aid in digestion? All it can do is blow up in size in the stomach (3-5x its size in volume), get jammed in the duodenum, cause gallstones or pancreatitis, and scour the inner walls of the intestines on its way out. It binds to vital micronutrients and electrolytes and cause gas and bloating.

... really? So this is one more dietary guideline that needs to be chucked away? I find I shit so much better when I take it, which fits with everything I've read on it:

Quote:

Psyllium is used clinically as a bulk laxative, an agent that has laxative effects but secondary to increasing fecal size; a gentler laxative relative to chemical agents like caffeine or senna alexandrina. This bulk occurs due to water and gas absorption in the small intestines and colon to give chyme (made from digested food) more size and softness. This bulk is retained in the colon despite microflora as psyllium is poorly fermented (highly fermented fibers may be metabolized by bacteria in the colon, and water retaining properties with the fiber would be lost in this scenario).

Psyllium is proven to increase fecal size and moisture, and the most common characteristics of stool following supplementation of psyllium are 'soft, sleek, and easily passable.' Relative to other sources of dietary fiber, psyllium appears to be more effective at forming feces and appears to be one of the few fiber sources not associated with excessive flatulence.

Apparently it also lowers cholesterol by absorbing fatty acids, which may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the individual's needs (I'll need to read up on it more). But as a laxative (which is often necessary for people who eat a lot of meat) it seems helpful. I couldn't find anything on serious risks or side effects. Also, my doctor told me to take a fiber supplement (it wasn't psyl. but a different kind) around 30 minutes prior to taking probiotics, apparently it helps your body absorb the prob.

Sorry to derail the thread, but if you're eating a lot of red meat then fiber intake may be worth thinking about.

[Sidney Crosby]

Added fibre seems necessary with certain diets. Adding psyllium husks to water works great when needed, just try and drink it as fast as possible.