[Vladimir Poontang]

I've been thinking about this for some time, and here's what I've come up with :

They say that all objections (assuming the person is potentially interested to begin with) boil down to not knowing and therefore not trusting the salesman, i.e. thinking that they will rip them off.

I thought about this and I disagree. Yes it's important but it's not that hard to overcome, and it's not the real issue.

Then for a time I was convinced that the real issue is that you've entered their territory, and that's why they're on guard. Whether it's a phone call or a knock on the door, you've interrupted their day to try to sell to them. The problem here is that you've backed them into a corner and given them only 2 options : buy, or goodbye (as opposed to : buy, goodbye, or come back later - in the case of a car showroom (aka the salesman's territory, not the sellee's) or whatever).

But now, at the time of writing this, I think it's not even that. I think the real reason why sales is hard and doesn't come naturally to most people is because people have an instinctive aversion to the idea that someone is only interested in their commission, and therefore will say or do anything to make the sale. In other words, they're only concerned with their own interests. i.e. they'll lie or otherwise misrepresent what they're selling, or they'll be pushy, or they'll linger for ages and try to exhaust the person into buying.

The reason why trust (i.e. will this person rip me off?) and territory seem like the real issue is because they exacerbate it. In other words, if the person thinks you might only care about yourself and your commission, then the fact that they don't know if you'll rip them off plus the fact that you're intruded on their territory only makes it worse.

Another reason, and I think it's a big one, is that it's hard to get hold of people and grab their attention. If you call them, often you have to make lots of calls to even get to speak to the decision maker. It's very draining and demoralizing. And if you email them, well then it's all too easy for the person to not notice your email, or not bother opening it because it's probably spam or bullshit, or if they do open it it's too easy to think meh and not bother, because you haven't grabbed their attention. It's just an email.

So, to sum up, the 2 reasons why I think sales is hard are :

* It's hard to even get hold of people and get their attention
* People are wary that you only care about yourself and your commission





Things that I don't consider to be reasons why sales is hard :

* People don't want to spend money - No I think people love to spend money. Most people spend some money almost every day. People love shopping, they love impulse buying, and some people even love to gamble their money away.

* They don't know you - Well, people go to shops all the time that they've never even heard of and buy stuff. They go to previously unknown websites and order things. No I don't think people care that much about this. People are perfectly happy to spend money on strangers.

* They don't like to be sold at - No, people don't mind at all if someone tries to sell something to them. It happens every day. Advertising, someone coming up to you in a shop and asking if they can help you and offering to explain a product, and so on.

* They resent the fact that you want commission - I don't think people even care about this. People are quite happy to give a waiter extra money (a tip) for a job well done. They don't mind the fact that the other person is hoping to get something out of the deal.



Also, I think it's perfectly reasonable for someone to ask for information before making a decision. Especially now with email. This creates a dilemma because if you send info they could easily forget all about it or change their mind, and if you don't, they'll wonder why.

[Menzilci]

I have mild aspergers and my job involves meeting people and pitching them ( Real Estate Agent)
In terms of revenue I'm the 2nd best performer in our office ( out of 21 agents)

Study your audience, act cool, be very well dressed. Even as a socially awkward guy in real life, I've come a long way. If I can do it, then anybody can.

[Truth Tiger]

Sales is hard to the extent you haven't understood the psychology of your intended market. Sales is hard if you haven't identified a person's needs and fears: you need to acknowledge and allay their fears while indicating (through evidence or their first-hand experience) you can address their needs. Sales is as hard as game, or as easy as game, depending on how you approach either one.

Particularly with your comments in the second half of your post, I think you're confusing your own bias, or perceptions of people's buying behaviors, with how the VAST majority of people operate.

Yes, you could potentially find a small group of people who love to spend money, without knowing you, who don't mind being 'sold at', and are happy to pay a commission. Through my experience being in business a fairly long time, that's a VERY small group. It's not one a sane business person aims for, not if you want stable and predictable growth.

It's naive to think everyone is like you - they're not. Most people (a majority) are conservative with their resources. Occasional indulgences with a majority of measured financial decisions. There are people who have no impulse control and throw money away but those people can be very demanding customers who end up creating more problems. You have a child in an adult's body with a credit card - like regret rape, purchase regret happens too often when people don't consider the impact of their buying decisions. Heard of charge-backs, repossession, bankruptcy?

Look into concept of the law of diffusion of innovation. This TED talk uses it as an example as to why some companies enjoy more acceptance and success than others. Adopting a more 'why'-based than 'what or how'-based sales approach has also increased acceptance in my market, and willingness for people to buy what I'm selling - because they know WHY it matters and from trusted testimonials (or their first-hand experience) they have confidence that I'm a trust-worthy person with a track-record of meeting many previous customer's needs.

'Start With Why' - how great leaders inspire action - Simon Sinek

I also make what I do aspirational, so not everyone can afford it but everyone would want it. I cultivate an aura of exclusivity and desirability around my product, while giving free information and educating my audience (which includes potential customers). In this way, it's more like Gary V's concept of 'jab jab jab right hook' where you give give give then make an ask. I was doing this before I knew about Gary V, because I realized that customers needed time to research, ask around, call other vendors, then come back and see I had a superior product / service. I had risen to the top in their mind, not because I was saying "I'm the best" but because everyone else was. They had PRE-SELECTED me as being the most desirable option.

That often means I don't do 'hard sales,' but I offer some time for free to answer basic questions. If they want to know more (and if I've done my work well, many will be curious to know more), I point them to FAQs, blog posts, testimonials from customers on various forums, and Youtube videos I've made so they can answer more questions. They can then contact me again after doing more research. I want WELL-INFORMED customers, because then I don't waste time trying to sell them - they WANT what I'm offering. I can also charge more (which I've been dong for a few years now) relative to similar (but lower quality) products on the market. They KNOW they're getting THE BEST and they are comfortable paying for that. I've helped them make the case IN THEIR OWN MIND why they need to work with me and buy from me.

My time and experience are valuable, and people need to compensate me for my direct engagement beyond some initial questions. Think high-end personal trainers, lawyers, business consultants, elite performance coaches - people who can charge handsomely for seats at a conference and you'll pay that price to absorb what they know. A big part of effective sales is branding yourself without acting like you're branding yourself. I guess you could relate it to the game idea of indirect proof, taking a new girl to a restaurant where the staff knows you.

There are levels involved in establishing trust, which creates a willingness for someone to 'buy into' what you're selling, whether an idea, a product, or service. If you give them a compelling reason as to why they need what you're offering, they are far more likely to buy it. Some people also need to take time with a decision so higher-pressure, 'in your face sales' is a miserable failure here and why many sales people get a bad rap. That's why you follow up with people days, weeks, or months later. This comes from observing human nature and seeing that everyone has a different decision-making process. In the same way you don't want a woman to claim regret rape the next day, you don't want a customer demanding a refund after a hasty purchase. I've seen this happen with men who DIDN'T talk with their wives (in cases where the guy is beta, which happens far too often). In many cases, you need to get the woman's buy-in if she's not the primary user or recipient of the item or service.

Source: more than a decade running my own business, doing sales & marketing, with face-to-face / electronic / convention-based customer engagement.

[Repo]

Ehhhh I think your missing a huge one. People are afraid of change. When selling something to a business, it will usually mean the business will have to change some type of process or integrate some new type of training, or whatever. You need to be able to anticipate, address, and overcome this concern, which more often than not will not even be vocalized by the target

[SpursFan741]

I worked as a sales executive in Finance for a year and I'm still working now part-time as a sales executive in Finance. I had like a basic wage from 900$ and all the rest was commission.

The endless cold callings, rejections, insults from people will get on you after a while till you're tired of it. And especially financial products are fucking hard to sell, no one trusts investment products ( international pension planning, investment funds) these days. The stress from not being able to pay my rent ( rent was like 650$) + the deadlines that u need to pass were really tough. The first few months I was coldcalling the whole day from 8 am till 7 PM, just to set up meetings for consultants. And I'm not even talking about the endless recruiting bullshit talks they tell u when u get hired; yea, ideally, in ur first year u will make over 100$ easily if you put into the work. Fake it till you make it is what I heard countless times.

You have to put on a monkey suit everyday, Colleagues who feel more like competitors ; It ain't for everybody.

You have literally 0 energy after a whole week of coldcalling and trying to sell all kind of things.

Yes, It does improve ur game with woman because u just don't give a fuck in general anymore, ur so used to talking to people now.

I only see myself for 1 or 2 more years in sales though

[Mage]

Sales is not hard. Most products are shit however. Devise a good product and your sales will be easy.

Modernity puts huge emphasis to sales, because that is where money is. Sales people who sell the product make more money then the designers and engineers who make it. Sales people are the cool "chads" and producers are the second role "nerds". But when you forget about quality of product to a too large degree sales becomes harder too. Not to mention in western society there are more salespeople then producers and that great amount of salespeople creates huge competition. The people are numbed by the huge amount of ads and sales targeting them


It's the same with game - everybody wants to quickly learn few scripted routines and slay girls left and right but at some point you realize you have to back up and spend that time in gym and reading books because it gets harder and harder to sell your fat and dumb ass.

[BlastbeatCasanova]

I do sales, 100% cold calling unless I happen to get a referral. It's a challenging gig; the lows can be brutal but the highs are so sweet.

I agree with a lot of what you said. I don't think the prospect cares about the salesperson getting paid commission, sometimes when I can't close the prospect they'll ask if they can call the company and get the same deal (no) and/or that I'll get the credit/commission (definitely not).

Trust is absolutely crucial. Whenever I slow myself down and spend a little time building some real rapport with the prospect the sales conversation becomes way more solid instead of someone just going along to be polite. I read somewhere "If they like you they'll listen to you, but if they trust you they'll buy from you." - Zig Ziglar, I think. Makes sense, referrals are the easiest sales of all time because the trust is already there.

Sales is hard and scares people because 1.) no guarantee of getting paid / you eat what you kill and 2.) people don't like rejection

[Kona]

I'm a sick to salesfucks because I know what I need. I love when some trollop wants to take me to lunch because an add on the phone book is going to revolutionise my shit.

Or the fuckwagon that sells me tools. I know what I need, don't push me to buy shit I don't need.

My favorite us the Zep cleaning stuff dicksuck. I told him if he eats the floor cleaner I'd buy it. I don't even have the floor for the shit, and he was about about to do it. Just leave the papertowels and get the hell out.

Aloha!

[Suits]

(08-12-2018 11:07 PM)Kona Wrote:  

I'm a sick to salesfucks because I know what I need. I love when some trollop wants to take me to lunch because an add on the phone book is going to revolutionise my shit.

Or the fuckwagon that sells me tools. I know what I need, don't push me to buy shit I don't need.

My favorite us the Zep cleaning stuff dicksuck. I told him if he eats the floor cleaner I'd buy it. I don't even have the floor for the shit, and he was about about to do it. Just leave the papertowels and get the hell out.

I love it when Kona posts drunk.

[Aviel]

I did sales 100% cold calling booking appointments for consultants offering credit card processing services. WAS A FUCKIN NIGHTMARE!!!

Now I work as an SDR for a SaaS company much better work, better base and commission. Career-wise it seems very good once I become an Account Executive.

I used to get upset when people bitch at me or talk shit. Now I ignore it and move on, or take a 5-10 min break then go back at it. I’m awkward and have problems speaking sometimes lol but selling software is not hard!!

[jordypip23]

As has been stated before, Sales is almost a pure analogy for Game. Think about it, if you have the killer product (combo of looks, charisma, genetic complement & appealing look / personality to the chica in question yielding quick IOI), you will be making the sale faster than an 80's crack dealer in the hood. Now if you're lacking, you gotta lotta explaining to do. And if you at least check off a few of her boxes & make her pussy tingle somehow, then you still got a shot at closing the sale.

Otherwise, it's a dead deal & you move on to the next prospect. And in Sales, you have the Hunter type roles where you have to land the deals. And you have the more Maintenance type of roles where you gotta maintain (think about remaining Alpha while maintaining a lucrative LTR). There you go.

[wi30]

Everyone is in sales. Most people just don't realize it.

It's not hard, you just have to do it. It's only hard if you don't believe in what you're selling or there isn't a demand for it.

[Ski pro]

Sales isn’t for everyone. It involves a rare blend of thick skin, empathy, a sharp mind and killer instinct.

I used to Be in it back in the day and now I still am I a certain extent but I also have a lot of other bs to deal with also.

Let me tell you this though, the rush of landing a new client never, ever gets old. I enjoy reeling the fish in just as much now as I ever did.

[Vladimir Poontang]

(08-13-2018 04:49 AM)Ski pro Wrote:  

Let me tell you this though, the rush of landing a new client never, ever gets old. I enjoy reeling the fish in just as much now as I ever did.

Sure, but is it worth banging your head against a wall 99 times before you get that rush?

[lookslikeit]

How about "because it is a competitive business"?

You understand that people are quite good at spending their money and somebody elses (parents, credit card, government, company card, etc...) However, there is an infinite amount of businesses/sales people trying to get that money. So you are not really trying to convert people as much as you are competing with others for their conversion.

People will spend their money on shopping. Whatever the market is offering. But if your competition is offering glass doors, AC, big spaces, new modern design, well dressed and articulate sellers, etc... you have to offer the same too. Ouups, not an easy game anymore.

2-3 billion internet users on the internet with cards to use. The problem is you can't access them without someone trying to be the middle man (ads, seo, ecommerce, credit cards, affiliate taking %, etc...)

[RichieP]

It's easy if you have:

The right product,
with the right messaging,
in front of the right person,
at the right price,
in the right window of time.

What's hard is getting all those stars to align.

Sales is like climbing a slippery mountain of mud is one of those is significantly off. And that's before throwing competition into the mix.

[marcusdivincenzo]

I have sold ~$30M of product across finance & tech.

#1 problem is that the product is not good enough.

If you look at a sales team at a really successful tech company (e.g. Slack), their product is so good that the sales team spends 80% of their time just executing on inbound referrals from existing customers. Shooting fish in a barrel.

Consider a company like Uber where people are so desperate to use the product they will sell their own grandmother to use it. The "growth" or "corporate sales" teams here could be staffed entirely with deaf,mute & blind people and they would crush it.

Sales techniques/"methods" is for losers. Guys like Zig Ziglar lived in a different time where information didn't travel as fast and consumer attitudes were totally different. Here's a relevant quote from Jeff Bezos:

Quote:

"Before if you were making a product, the right business strategy was to put 70% of your attention, energy, and dollars into shouting about a product, and 30% into making a great product. So you could win with a mediocre product, if you were a good enough marketer. That is getting harder to do. The balance of power is shifting toward consumers and away from companies...the individual is empowered... The right way to respond to this if you are a company is to put the vast majority of your energy, attention and dollars into building a great product or service and put a smaller amount into shouting about it, marketing it. If I build a great product or service, my customers will tell each other."

[Ski pro]

(08-13-2018 05:48 AM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  

(08-13-2018 04:49 AM)Ski pro Wrote:  

Let me tell you this though, the rush of landing a new client never, ever gets old. I enjoy reeling the fish in just as much now as I ever did.

Sure, but is it worth banging your head against a wall 99 times before you get that rush?

I don’t bang my head 99 times. Cold call sales yes, I understand but rarely these days is anyone given the phone book and told to get on with it.

[RichieP]

(08-13-2018 08:04 AM)marcusdivincenzo Wrote:  

#1 problem is that the product is not good enough.

If you look at a sales team at a really successful tech company (e.g. Slack), their product is so good that the sales team spends 80% of their time just executing on inbound referrals from existing customers. Shooting fish in a barrel.

Consider a company like Uber where people are so desperate to use the product they will sell their own grandmother to use it.

Tech platforms with amazing product-market fit and several rounds of funding still need to focus on growth, and both Uber and Slack poured a lot of time and effort into that. They didn't need "closers" per se but they worked their asses off to dominate their respective winner-takes-all niches.

For the average small biz owner trying to sell a discrete product or service, marketing and sales is always huge, especially with dozens of competitors with similar offers. Getting your messaging, outreach and sales process down is a major advantage.

[Leads]

I used to stop after 15 calls if I got one 'maybe'. Then I started reading all the books. Fanatical Prospecting is a must read.

I recently saw this video of the Grant Cardone / Tai Lopez challenge and although I don't like either of them, their strategies are unstoppable.. At one point in the video he asks the sales team 'how many calls a day" The guy answers 50 each. Tai then says 'that needs to be 400' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkawF-3sEEU

It's by far the #1 lesson for me. 10x my effort. I'm going to get Cardones book of the same title, even though his two cold calls made me cringe.

[Off The Reservation]

From another thread

(04-01-2018 09:55 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

(04-01-2018 09:13 PM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

I'm starting a sales job this week and am willing to put the time outside work to succeed. I am wondering if I should approach every day in order to build my social skills to be better at sales. I will he in a SDR position and am looking go he the best. Would approaching be worth my time to be a better salesman? I don't game like I use to due to some other issues that can be another thread in itself. But now I have my life in tact to where I can balance things out a bit

Great question.

Let me throw a monkey wrench in your plans.

Don't get distracted.

What you need to do is become an expert in your sales organization's and your job's pay structure, and work like the most ruthless motherfucker they have ever seen on what pays the most. I have no idea what your system is but if you aren't on some kind of performance based compensation you aren't in sales. Study it, figure out its tricks and ins and outs.

Asking should I ____________________ anything other than should I go for whatever pays the most is a distraction from your only purpose in sales. I know that this is hard to understand but you are going to be bombarded inside and out with bullshit which has NOTHING to do with your sales, including your question in this thread.

Let me give you two examples. Some places have scaled commissions that once you meet some numbers you get higher rates etc. Maybe at your place after you sell the 5th doorbell you get a 5% raise in the rest of the months commissions. You need to scheme the system and work hard to get to that 5th as fast as possible. Another example from a friend of mine, he told me there was a used car at his car dealer that did not sell for 400 days, and he put a $1500 minimum commission on it, and every salesmen on his team showed it to every person who walked in regardless of what they asked for and it was sold the SAME DAY. It was the same piece of shit car, but the structure was there to motivate the sales guys. If you arent "gaming" your structure you aren't thinking.

Let's face it, whatever corporate bs you have to put up with you are selling your time and services and energy for $x,xxx per month. Do the math and make the most of it and stop getting distracted with the 10,000 things around you.

When you know these things in and out, you will already know that approaching girls has nothing directly whatsoever to do with your next paycheck.

[BlastbeatCasanova]

(08-13-2018 10:38 PM)Leads Wrote:  

I used to stop after 15 calls if I got one 'maybe'. Then I started reading all the books. Fanatical Prospecting is a must read.

I recently saw this video of the Grant Cardone / Tai Lopez challenge and although I don't like either of them, their strategies are unstoppable.. At one point in the video he asks the sales team 'how many calls a day" The guy answers 50 each. Tai then says 'that needs to be 400' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkawF-3sEEU

It's by far the #1 lesson for me. 10x my effort. I'm going to get Cardones book of the same title, even though his two cold calls made me cringe.

Yeah man, it's a grind for sure. One thing I learned from someone above me who sold high volume was that mentally he splits his commission across all the calls he makes. So if he makes $500 per sale and it takes him 20 calls to make a sale, then he gets paid $25 per phone call. Kinda makes it a little easier to keep pushing through all the no's I guess, just like with chicks it's a numbers game

[inostranec]

(08-13-2018 10:38 PM)Leads Wrote:  

I used to stop after 15 calls if I got one 'maybe'. Then I started reading all the books. Fanatical Prospecting is a must read.

I recently saw this video of the Grant Cardone / Tai Lopez challenge and although I don't like either of them, their strategies are unstoppable.. At one point in the video he asks the sales team 'how many calls a day" The guy answers 50 each. Tai then says 'that needs to be 400' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkawF-3sEEU

It's by far the #1 lesson for me. 10x my effort. I'm going to get Cardones book of the same title, even though his two cold calls made me cringe.

I also dislike Cardone but I must say 10x rule book was top notch. Thinking about rereading it. I took his advice and called potential clients immensely every fucking day. Once first 3 days over, you get used to it.

[Parzival]

Sales seems hard because you have to overcome your own fears. Rejection is very common. People say no, most of us tend to agree and get along. How you want to get along when the customer not even let you do a demo of your product?
My first sales job was high pressure but also high quality sales training. You analyse your calls, closed questions should be used with a certain purpose, open questions are better. How to deal with the responses of the customer at the phone? How to get information out of it? I'm now able to turn most calls into an appointment. Next thing is how to behave at the customer. Listen, understand what the customer really needs and if your product can solve this or at least you can make this impression.
I have a solution orientated attitude, I also do sales in B2B with a good product that can solve an application. Also I have to build the trust that we don't let the customer alone when some issues rise.

I spent some effort in my free time, know the product better, observe how I talk on the phone, how I talk when present with the customer. Many people say oh I want to just me. Well most of us are like an unshaped stone, it needs time and dedication to create the true sculpture underneath. What a lot of people also scares at sales is the measurement. You get measured at your profits. But its a weak argument. Today almost all jobs have a controlling department, they have some numbers where they get measured.

So for most its the daily interaction with different people, where you need a positive attitude and the skills to understand the other person that make it different. Also you have to deal with rejection and put some real work into it.

[Vladimir Poontang]

(08-14-2018 11:59 AM)Parzival Wrote:  

Sales seems hard because you have to overcome your own fears. Rejection is very common. People say no, most of us tend to agree and get along. How you want to get along when the customer not even let you do a demo of your product?
My first sales job was high pressure but also high quality sales training. You analyse your calls, closed questions should be used with a certain purpose, open questions are better. How to deal with the responses of the customer at the phone? How to get information out of it? I'm now able to turn most calls into an appointment. Next thing is how to behave at the customer. Listen, understand what the customer really needs and if your product can solve this or at least you can make this impression.
I have a solution orientated attitude, I also do sales in B2B with a good product that can solve an application. Also I have to build the trust that we don't let the customer alone when some issues rise.

I spent some effort in my free time, know the product better, observe how I talk on the phone, how I talk when present with the customer. Many people say oh I want to just me. Well most of us are like an unshaped stone, it needs time and dedication to create the true sculpture underneath. What a lot of people also scares at sales is the measurement. You get measured at your profits. But its a weak argument. Today almost all jobs have a controlling department, they have some numbers where they get measured.

So for most its the daily interaction with different people, where you need a positive attitude and the skills to understand the other person that make it different. Also you have to deal with rejection and put some real work into it.

I have no issues with people saying no. It's disappointing but it's not the end of the world. And I have no problem with the fact that sales is challenging. I don't have any fear about talking to people on the phone (although I certainly did when I tried it a long time ago). In fact I find it exciting.

My issue with sales is that it is a profession in which you have to go through so much bullshit in between results. I don't expect it to be plain sailing but it really is way too much in the opposite direction, no wonder so many people quit.

The really hard part is simply the fact that it's hard to even get hold of people on the phone to begin with. I'd rather hear no X10 than make 10 calls and not get to speak to the decision maker. And if you're working in a way that slows you down (i.e. no CRM, shitty leads, having to actually dial numbers like it's 1999), that makes it worse and even more irritating.

Basically anything that slows me down or causes me to bang my head against a wall is unbearable to me. I enjoy a challenge but there's a limit. It's like guys who like big asses. There's a limit before it becomes disgusting.

So I think sales is tough partly for this reason, and partly for the reasons that I mentioned at the start of this thread. But I do get the feeling that everything I mentioned at the start might not be that much of an issue if only you can get through to people on the phone. I believe life is full of surprises but if you can't even speak to a decision maker you never get to see it in action.

By the way I think the most common reasons that people give for why sales is hard are very pedestrian and really miss the point. Not to blow my own horn but I believe I nailed it in my opening post.