[TheFinalEpic]

(07-13-2018 12:04 AM)The_e_man Wrote:  

True, always good to have multiple streams of income. I need to diversify.
Tinder and online should purely be a passive income stream, not the only thing keeping me alive.

100% this. You can use Tinder while you're taking a shit and still pull a couple girls a month. It's unsatisfying if it's easy like this. Men desire the difficult path (however enjoyable I personally find meeting women to be).

I think that we at the point where everything is shifting away from social media. If you meet these girls in real life and they have 1500+ followers on instagram plus thirsty betas on their dating apps, you auto differentiate when you meet them in real life. You don't care about their follower count, or how many guys hit them up, because the saturation in this space is at the level where a 6 has 1500 followers, man. This is a bubble of epic proportions. The only guys who win here are the feminine ones that have their x000 followers and play the status game on social media. Nobody has time for that nonsense if they are actually masculine, it's just another push for men to be more like women.

Sure, online shit is here to stay. I am involved in tech myself, I can tell you it's just going further down the rabbit hole. But, creating a human connection is never going away. Those that forego this are going to loose all semblance of humanity. Man meets woman, woman and man fuck, and the world keeps spinning.

Leverage technology, but don't let it take over. It's easier to fuck than ever before, but, when it comes to quality, I personally believe that human connection wins out 9 times out of 10 here.

[The_e_man]

(07-13-2018 01:01 AM)Balkan Wrote:  

You say "hey" as a filter? I reckon you could get a higher response rate with more personalized openers but spreading a wider net would catch more flakey girls. Keeping the conversation "inane" probably explains the very high bang rate.

You zero date banging straight to your pad? Or going on dates?

Thanks again for the breakdown.

Absolutely, I could get a much higher response rate by sending an opener other than the generic "hey."
But here's why I choose not to: it does a great job of filtering girls that are more legitimately interested in me based just off my looks / pictures. Those are the girls I want to be talking to. Not the luke-warm girls that will only reply if I'm an interesting enough dancing monkey with a funny / shocking/ witty / extreme / self-depreciating opener.
I don't want to be the temporary virtual entertainment of a bored girl on her iPhone. I want to be meeting and banging girls that want to meet and bang me. And saying "hey" is usually enough to get these girls to bite, provided they think I'm good looking and want to bang me based just off my Tinder pictures.
I do agree, I'm being stubborn and leaving change on the table. But I blame my ego. I refuse to be a monkey entertainer with my opener. Too many loser beta guys do it, and I want to separate myself from the clowns as much as possible.

And to answer your other question, I don't go on dates. I invite them over to "chill and cuddle" as I say it. Or I invite them over to give them a massage and to cuddle. Lol. These girls know what's up, there's no point in wasting either parties time with a date.

[Graft]

Game in singular form is dead.

In the past you could night/day game a lizard, get her digits, give a quick call for more night game logistics.

Now you either night/day/social circle/online a lizard, and you bounce to either text or social media, then hopefully bounce to another nightgame spot. If you get her digits and text, she could curve you to social media "do you have IG?" If you pitch a date, she could curve you to social circle "bring your friends to XYZ bar!". Social media is far better than text if you know how to DHV.

I haven't gotten an SNL from nightgame in about a year. Whenever I've gotten a lead from nightgame/daygame/apps, it's usually an uphill battle to DHV to the date. When I've shown value on social media, they're more receptive.

Anytime I've gotten a lead from social circle, they wanted to check my value on social media.

The best combination is: social circle + high value social media + nightgame close.
Second best is: daygame/nightgame/app lead + high value social media + nightgame close + show social circle to cement lead.

A lot of guys run pure game, no social media, lone wolf style, but this is a true grind, and will be completely dead in a few years if it's not already dead..

If guy A runs daygame on a girl and texts her after, and guy B runs night game on a girl, and shows value with social media and social circle, assuming the connection is similar, who is going to pique her interest?

Being a part of the tribe is key.

The truth is, it's becoming next to impossible for pickup guys to hide their flaws. It's rare that I get a lead who doesn't want to access my life trophy case, whether it be in the form of social circle, social media, LinkedIn, etc. Women perform full background checks these days.

Right now my value is high enough to get consistent 8+ leads, but my conversion is weaker than it should be. This is because my social media is about a 6/10, my social circle is a 2/10.

My game/life goal this year is to bring my social media up to an 8 or 9 out of 10, my social circle a 6/10. I should net consistent 8-9 range if this happens.

[BadKing]

I have no social media whatsoever and it doesn’t hinder my cock in the least.

If you’re a social guy (or refine your skills) you can easily make new friends every 6 months or so.

[Graft]

(07-13-2018 08:04 PM)BadKing Wrote:  

I have no social media whatsoever and it doesn’t hinder my cock in the least.

If you’re a social guy (or refine your skills) you can easily make new friends every 6 months or so.

Reading your past posts, you claim to be an outlier in terms of looks: "I barely need game, I rely on looks."

Your advice shouldn't be taken for the vast majority of men, including extremely good looking guys. Guys who don't have looks need social proof even more, guys who have looks like yours can amplify their game to the extreme with proper marketing.

[asdfk]

SNL should not be affected and I don't have the problem Graft mentions. In my opinion Nightgame and daygame will never die. It's a misconception that online game will "replace" these.

For women online game is a better bargain then going to a bar to meet guys. But this is not true for dudes unless they have inflated their SMV.

Nightgame is nothing more then starting a conversation with a girl in a bar or club and enticing her to have sex with you. Girls will still go to bars in ten years. Having Tinder on their phones won't make them less impulsive and less slutty when they had a few cocktails. It will just make them more slutty on the nights they are not going to bars.

Also, the most attractive guys will get the most attention but they can't fuck all those lizards. Many 6s and 7s will not be able to bang the hot dudes. You won't get those through Tinder because you're directly competing with a huge army of thirsty motherfuckers just like you. But during daygame and in a bar that bitch is still very approachable.

The problem I see with online game, as mentioned before, is that it creates barriers to entry for men and somewhat mitigates womens tendency to make stupid dating decisions.

In addition: It's All Fake.

Everybody is inflating their SMV, men and women alike, but this diminishes the value of honesty and having actual attractive traits. Online dating rewards what you show, the more it is "liked" or viewed the better you perform.

A tiny fat bitch will find the right angle for her pics in which she looks tall, average built and has nice tittays. Angle + photo editing can turn any 4 into a 7 and they do so on the regular, with an endless stream of thirsty dudes proposing them as an result.

This is minor. Everybody is so focussed on propping up their SMV they can't think of anything else. It's hyper-consumerism. Watch "Nosedive", the Black Mirror episode (S03E01).

[VisionsofGandhi]

Social circle game is worse for lone wolf guys then social media game. When your in a social circle you're expected to give out your time, hangout with them, Participate in their bullshit. You have to adhere to their social hierarchy. Who has time for that? I for sure don't

Social media or day game is the new mode of this year and the years ahead. The problem is that you need to be on a sufficient game level and have high Smv, Social media more so then Day game. The great thing with day game is that few guys do it and most who do it don't do it accurately. You will be seen as alpha by her instantly but in few locations mostly in Europe day game is too saturated.

[Graft]

(07-13-2018 09:39 PM)VisionsofGandhi Wrote:  

Social circle game is worse for lone wolf guys then social media game. When your in a social circle you're expected to give out your time, hangout with them, Participate in their bullshit. You have to adhere to their social hierarchy. Who has time for that? I for sure don't

I 100% agree. Social circles with normies typically suck. Exactly like you said, you have to subscribe to all their bullshit rules and kiss ass when the females tell you. It's still an effective game method however.

When I mention social circle game, I'm referring to my plate conversion: bang her a couple times, bring her out to my apartment/summer house with my friends, show her that I'm a "popular" guy, have my buddies backslapping me. A couple of my buddies are on this forum, they'll tell you how I integrate plates into social situations in order to dissipate the randomness of an app or daygame lead.

I don't ever plan to break into young social circles in order to mine leads, I just want to use my existing friends to show that I'm a normal, sociable guy, who is preselected, and hook up my friends with her friends in the process. I have a good living situation for social scene, all I need to do is tell her: "bring a friend" and it make this process easier for everyone.

I'll say this only once to avoid trolling: a lot of this forum/TRP glorifies lone wolf, pure game, no friends, no social media. I've met plenty of guys on the forum that haven't made effort in maintaining friendship past nightgame wingman. If you are targeting young girls (18-24) it is imperative that you appear to be a popular guy, your game and money can only carry you so long with a girl who has a billion friends and whose competition is in a 100+ person fraternity.

Even if you're a sociopath who doesn't care about friendship, it's important that you have them, just for the sake of pussy, because a young girl will quickly recognize an unpopular guy with no preselection and drop you.

[BadKing]

I’ve yet to see a guy approach in the day apart from the gym. There is literally no competition because guys don’t have the balls to approach.

If you do day game, no matter what you look like, you have an advantage over the next guy.

Every time I go to the park I see a handful of pretty girls sitting alone, almost waving over, dying to be approached.

It’s just like working out—at the start it’s hard, but gets addicting very fast. The harder it is for you the more character it will build—killing two birds with one stone.

[VisionsofGandhi]

That' true as well, You should create your own social circle with like minded people with likewise or near smv levels instead of joining groups you internally dislike.

I'm pretty unsure about social media game tho, Social media brings lays if you a have good social media. But my social circle is close-knit and sheltered with only a few guys. I'm not sure i would be able to get a high follower count i wouldn't won't to share so much about my personal life either.

But for those who can i would advise them to just go out in the world and then they will see that people like to spend time with other humans and want to get know them. Most people i met 2 or 3 times often ask my for my snap and Instagram . They want to further our relationship. If you reciprocate wisely with your time and effort you can get invited to a lot of social gatherings and parties. Getting useful contacts for jobs or other shit is a high plus to.

Generally if you have high smv your going to attract a lot of people not necessarily girls but it can still be useful for you. Status isn't that important with fellow guys.

[a beer is enough]

I don't get this hate towards social media at all, it isn't feminine of masculine, it is a medium of self-promotion. You should want to take photos of amazing life experiences and share them with others. I see social media as a sort of natural selection in game, you either adapt or suffer. The guys who are using it to clean up, they caught on and realized its value, now they are reaping the rewards.

Building a legitimately good following, post quality content, convincing a ton of people to like it and having an awesome presence is a lot of work. Most guys will not be able to pull it off but in any situation, the vast majority of guys aren't fucking the hottest girls anyways.

I am finding that it is the top tier athletes, celebs, alpha males society worships and the top tier men who often have a major social media presence. Even back in my college days, the frat guys and athletes fucking the hottest girls all had 1k+ followers on Instagram and were getting the most attention from hot girls. Hot girls would literally look at their Instagram page and talk about them to their friends.

No need to call these guys feminine or anything, its the game. Some guys figure it out sooner than others and adapt, others stick to old worn out ways.

[BadKing]

Yeah, but if everyone is doing social media, you will stick out even more if you use the old ways.

You don’t buy a stock when it’s overvalued and everyone is buying it, you buy it when no one else is and you see underlying value.

I see no one doing what I’m doing and that’s why I’m successful.

[Fortis]

I don't think night game is dead, but you have to have way better social skills now. A lot of girls are too awkward to go out solo in spots like China.

[N°6]

I work in commercial real estate and although I haven't worked with nightclub building landlords directly, I have attended CPD seminars on the subject. In the UK, converting buildings into nightclubs is not a very profitable move any more. Nightclubs need a high volume of alcohol to be sold to pay for the very expensive lighting and music systems and that's where the average, needy young, heterosexual man comes in. Most of nightgame is the club promoters gaming men with the mirage of abundant and willing young women.

Even RSD is tentatively withdrawing from nightgame with its latest revelation about using Instagram.

[Bluey]

(07-14-2018 12:12 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

I don't think night game is dead, but you have to have way better social skills now. A lot of girls are too awkward to go out solo in spots like China.

Reminds me of a girl I was trying to flirt with recently. Just did not get it, don't think she was autistic, but that's what it was like. I'm pretty sure I'm not that much of a clusterfuck of social skills.

Pretty sure....

[RDF]

Did regular women used to go out solo? I find that hard to imagine, just never really seen it (with the exception of a 35+ girl here and there)

That being said, I think the old quote "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is relevant here. If you're pulling hot bitches from daygame and old school solo nightgame with no social involved, great. Different things can work for different people. If you aren't, then you need to put in the work to explore other avenues

Social circle has ALWAYS been the number 1 way to meet women. And solo nightgame has ALWAYS had a high bar for success. It may have been easier than today at one point, but fundamentally, approaching a hot girl and getting her into bed with no social proof or any sort of preselection has always been a challenge. Guys who purposely remove themselves from social circles or refuse to build them are just making it more difficult for themselves.

As for social media (Instagram specifically), it can be extremely helpful with younger girls, especially in the West. As mentioned earlier though, if you're pulling without it, great. If not, you should work on it ASAP. The bar for social media will continue to get higher as it becomes more advanced.

[tomzestatlu]

Very actual and interesting topic.

I am 25 and didn´t go to club until 18. I´ve got some ONS from clubs, but when I compare it to number of club visits, it´s very bad ratio. I would say I don´t have any good game in night, but my looks is good. I am in good shape and look masculline. It´s not so big advantage now, but there are girls who still love that.
But it´s getting worse and worse. I am not very old, but I can say that I see the change over the past few years. Last weeks I´ve been out to have a fun. I would say I was definitely one of the best looking guys in a club and still, it wasn´t enough for single mom or less attractive girls. I had a talk with DJ from a club where I work at and he is almost 50 years old. When he talked about old times and it sounded incredible in comparison to what I see now.


Last 6 months I worked as a bouncer and here are my insights (middle/eastern Europe). But most of them are already said here:
- The first point is simple. Situation is too bad
- Clubs are dying. There is too big decrease in visitors in all of the clubs in my city.
- The ratio is crazy. There are always atleast twice as much guys as girls. Sometimes it´s even worse (and I´ve seen evenings, when there were no girls at all)
- The most of the visitors are garbage. They are foreigners or really weird people.
- There are many bigger groups (before marriage party, birthday, work,...). Usually this groups contain too many cockblocking elements.
- You can be looser and still have girl. Probably it´s done by alcohol on both sides. Girl doesn´t care too much and guy feels too comfortable about himself after drinking alcohol and probably gives good vibes (of course this is minor)
- Younger girls choose loosers. You can see the difference. When really good looking girl around or older than 30 comes with a guy, it´s usually a guy, who "does have it". He is either good looking or his SMV is high on the first look. On the other hand, girls around 20 usually come with some guy, who looks like total looser. I think it´s like this, because young girls are really being reprogrammed about the form of "ideal" guy. So for types like me, it´s going to be harder and harder.
- Every girl has a plenty of guys to choose from. Doesn´t matter if she is 5 or 10.
- Girls mostly don´t go to clubs to meet men or bang. They go there to have fun and get approval to their ego.


I got out of LTR in march and since then I am getting notches mostly from Badoo (it´s the most popular dating app here). But I after some weeks of getting regular bangs, I am tired of it. I agree it spoiled whole game. It´s not difficult to get a notch, but they are worthless. I would say, that having real sex degraded on the similar level as jerking off (when speaking about dating apps).

I do have really bad social circle. From 15-23 years I was mostly living on military dormitory and all the guys around are soldiers, guys around fighting (some of them do well with girls, but all of them work as bouncers at nights) or friends from the place I come from (these guys are the worst option when it comes to social circle). My social circle probably won´t become better, so there´s just online game for me. I don´t count night game as a possible way nowadays. There´s yet day game, which I don´t do, but I would like to replace with it online game, at least partially.

Conclusion: days for night game are over. It´s good to go out from time to time and have a fun, whether you get a girl or not. There´s still possibility of getting bang, but doing that just for bang is waste of time and resources.

[Mikestar]

I think it depends where, in Europe nightgame is dead, maybe for the exception of a few places but where I live in England it's terrible. In latin America however it it is alive and thriving, girls actually go to clubs to hook up and the bitch shields are way less but this is very location specific.

[a beer is enough]

You're not "differentiating" yourself by being off of social media, if you do succeed, it is in spite of it and not because of it. Most younger women will perceive you as weird and strange, just how it works.

I'll note one other key benefit of social media, a lot of the success on it (especially Instagram) carries over on to dating apps. I got in on the game late because I fell into the lone wolf mentality Graft talks about and thought of it to be a waste of time, to make matters worse this was during my college years where I could have grown my following by a ton.

In my day I remember starting off with Tinder and Bumble putting up low quality pics, literally got no matches. I took a break, started to get more into social media, had my roommates (who were a godsend!) teach me the kinds of pics to take and put them up on IG. The pics of me that were getting 100+ likes I put on Bumble, matches went through the roof.

My theory is that the same girls who are big on social media and trying to be cool on it are creating Bumble profiles and hitting up the dating apps. Not sure why the hate on social media is so big, it is a very real platform and if you are struggling on it, it is time to get a good account together. I am trying to reach 1k followers on IG but got a long way to go there, do not want to resort to using some fake bot programs.

[BadKing]

If you’re perceived as weird by girls it’s because you put off that vibe, and then perhaps you need to try and deceive with the lie that is social media. I personally love the mysteriousness that not having social media gives me.

Your game has to go hand in hand with your personality—if you like to do things your way and don’t let society influence you, having social media will be incongruent.

The point is to do things that work for you, your look, and how you want to be perceived. I much prefer being seen as a dominant, even rebellious man than a pretty boy.

By the way, I did consider becoming a model just to have more access to the girls in the industry, but putting yourself out there as a piece of meat shouldn’t be appealing to a man.

[a beer is enough]

I am all for being authentic but you have to be honest about what you want in life. If you're on a game forum, then it is fair for me to say that getting hot girls is arguably one of the top priorities in your life. The case I am making is, why not do everything you can to maximize it?

If you are that set on avoiding social media because you see it as fake, have at it, it's your life to live. What annoys me is when guys try to come off as holier than thou and act as if everyone else is the idiot for being on social media.

You're not in any way better than the guys who adapted to the game and went on social media, different maybe, but not better. Maybe there is a lot of bias on my end here because I used to be that guy who thought the guys with thousands of IG followers and cool pics were posers until I realized how many options they had.

Regardless of how anyone might feel about it, the one thing you have to agree on is that social media is an extra tool in your arsenal to meet women. If you built up a good social network over the years, it makes things a lot easier.

[BadKing]

Fair points. At the end there is no winning, you only give up certain things for others. There is a certain ideal about meeting girls ‘serendipitously’ that I have a hard time letting go. You feel like a man approaching in person and nothing can take that away from you.

Perhaps there will be a time to have social media but it isn’t today.

[BlueResolute]

I rely on girls coming up to me and talking, so I kind of side with Badking. But it doesn't mean I'm good at game. I just recognize often that with all the men competing for the girl attention, the best thing to do for my case is to stay by myself. Girls tend to come toward me wondering why I'm not hitting on them. And yes, my looks make this easier, so this method doesn't work for anyone. Quite honestly, I don't consider myself handsome, since I'm humble af, but after reading a few stuff on gaming and being on this forum long enough, I've basically kept telling myself I am fucking handsome. This confidence has made going out a lot easier.

[azulsombra]

(07-13-2018 05:12 PM)The_e_man Wrote:  

(07-13-2018 01:01 AM)Balkan Wrote:  

You say "hey" as a filter? I reckon you could get a higher response rate with more personalized openers but spreading a wider net would catch more flakey girls. Keeping the conversation "inane" probably explains the very high bang rate.

You zero date banging straight to your pad? Or going on dates?

Thanks again for the breakdown.

Absolutely, I could get a much higher response rate by sending an opener other than the generic "hey."
But here's why I choose not to: it does a great job of filtering girls that are more legitimately interested in me based just off my looks / pictures. Those are the girls I want to be talking to. Not the luke-warm girls that will only reply if I'm an interesting enough dancing monkey with a funny / shocking/ witty / extreme / self-depreciating opener.
I don't want to be the temporary virtual entertainment of a bored girl on her iPhone. I want to be meeting and banging girls that want to meet and bang me. And saying "hey" is usually enough to get these girls to bite, provided they think I'm good looking and want to bang me based just off my Tinder pictures.
I do agree, I'm being stubborn and leaving change on the table. But I blame my ego. I refuse to be a monkey entertainer with my opener. Too many loser beta guys do it, and I want to separate myself from the clowns as much as possible.

And to answer your other question, I don't go on dates. I invite them over to "chill and cuddle" as I say it. Or I invite them over to give them a massage and to cuddle. Lol. These girls know what's up, there's no point in wasting either parties time with a date.

Are you based in Canada?
I think Tinder is extremely location specific.
Even cities in the same country can have a huge variance.

[hedonist]

(07-13-2018 05:12 PM)The_e_man Wrote:  

(07-13-2018 01:01 AM)Balkan Wrote:  

You say "hey" as a filter? I reckon you could get a higher response rate with more personalized openers but spreading a wider net would catch more flakey girls. Keeping the conversation "inane" probably explains the very high bang rate.

You zero date banging straight to your pad? Or going on dates?

Thanks again for the breakdown.

Absolutely, I could get a much higher response rate by sending an opener other than the generic "hey."
But here's why I choose not to: it does a great job of filtering girls that are more legitimately interested in me based just off my looks / pictures. Those are the girls I want to be talking to. Not the luke-warm girls that will only reply if I'm an interesting enough dancing monkey with a funny / shocking/ witty / extreme / self-depreciating opener.
I don't want to be the temporary virtual entertainment of a bored girl on her iPhone. I want to be meeting and banging girls that want to meet and bang me. And saying "hey" is usually enough to get these girls to bite, provided they think I'm good looking and want to bang me based just off my Tinder pictures.
I do agree, I'm being stubborn and leaving change on the table. But I blame my ego. I refuse to be a monkey entertainer with my opener. Too many loser beta guys do it, and I want to separate myself from the clowns as much as possible.

And to answer your other question, I don't go on dates. I invite them over to "chill and cuddle" as I say it. Or I invite them over to give them a massage and to cuddle. Lol. These girls know what's up, there's no point in wasting either parties time with a date.

+1
I've done the dancing monkey/witty shit before and at the end of the day I'd rather burned for who I am than what I'm not.

Things come and go in cycles ...I wonder in the future if being OFF social media will be a turn on for some women...