[Graft]

I have a seen a few marriages in my life that appear to be working extremely effectively: Surprise, the woman was with 1 or less partners and was with the man since high school or college:

Guy A is one of my close buddies and is tall, good looking, and charismatic, but emotionally needy. He finds a girl in HS 2 years younger, pops her cherry at 15 or so and marries her after a college LDR about 15 years later. They truly adore each other and she has supported him through difficult times in his career during her peak SMV years. She is gracefully hitting the wall with no evidence of cheating or scandal.

Guy B is another one of my buddies who meets a girl his first week of college and bones her. I think she had one other guy in HS. She is a HB8/9 back then, locks him down in college and wraps her entire identity around him post college. They get married, buy a house, she becomes a stay at home mom. Good deal for this dude besides not getting to smash around during his younger years, she is smart with excellent genetics and rich parents.

Guy C I'm related to, he locks down his HS sweetheart who is frankly out of his league and they pop out a kid, no evidence of garbage on her end, working mom but a solid wife.

All of the guys have decent SMV (besides guy C, who is average at best) but nothing extraordinary.

Sometimes the combination of RVF, more extreme sites like TRP/Heartiste, and dwelling on past flings can leave you with a deep seated emotional hatred that all women are ruthless pieces of shit who will leave you dead on the street for a better option.

I have the idea of these three relationships (where the woman could have easily branch swung, esp during the 22-24 post college SMV switch) that proves otherwise.

This is important to me, because it keeps the hope alive that one day I will be able to call a woman my best friend, someone I can rely on.

Sure, they could have whored around 1 night, or 100 nights. But it's also likely that they never did.

I'm not sure whether the women were 100% sold on the man being her best option at all times, or they were attached to the idea of a "HS/college sweetheart," but so far these marriages are pushing 15+ years total relationship and seem to be going well with low N count women.

Their orbiter counts are probably next to zero as they were always "Chris's girlfriend" so they were pursued much less.

I've personally been fucked by some ruthless ass bitches and so have most people here, but does anyone have any other couples keeping them alive?

[yankeetravels]

I have a couple in my family that don't get rid of my hope 100%. They're western marriages too, but they were raised in extremely tight-knit families. I doubt I will marry American, but these examples do keep a very small hope alive for me on the idea of marriage.

The first is from an older generation. Baby boomers where the husband passed away a couple years ago. They were high school sweethearts and I'm nearly positive both of them only had one partner because they got together in early high school years. As a bonus, they grew up in the 70's when the feminist movement was really taking off. 20 years of seeing them together, I never saw a weakness in their relationship and they did everything together and the wife never really gave into feminism from what I saw. When the husband died, the wife was completely devoted to him when he got sick and did everything to take care of him in his time of need. Since he's passed, I've been around the wife in that pair to know she is genuinely devastated at the loss (he died a little younger than he should've). I don't think she'll ever recover from it to be honest, but the seeing the strength of their marriage kept a small sense of hope.

The second is a lesser example but a more current one. This is older millennials involving the daughter of the pair above. She was more the relationship type. I'm not saying she never messed around casually, but I met all her SO's before her current husband (there were only a couple) and there was never much lag time between relationships. I realize that doesn't exactly make it pure and I'm not trying to say it is, all I'm saying is that my impression is that she wasn't a huge carousel rider like other 20's sluts. Anyway, she's currently married to a guy that that she's been with for 7-8 years total and married for about three with a kid. The reason I kind of look up to them is because I saw how they've handled hard times together. They didn't falter. The man above was her father and when he got sick and she lost him, I saw her latch on to her husband tighter than ever before and that really hasn't gone away. I believe her father's death strengthened their relationship for good and they currently have a child together now. Oh and also, she gave up a very promising career to be a stay-at-home mom once she gave birth to their child.

Both of these relationships involved both members being in tight-knit families raised on good morals. They're some of the only couples I see around me I can really look up to. There's 1-2 other new ones I think have potential to land in this category around me, but it's too early to confirm. Point is, I think going through bad times really reveals who you're meant to be around, and both passed with flying colors in my eyes. I still only have a tiny bit of hope of seeing this for myself because I believe they're outlier examples, but nevertheless it's there.

[Lunostrelki]

Most marriages, even western marriages, between people with college education are stable. In this demographic bracket most people are smart or responsible enough to understand that divorce and blatant cheating would undermine all they worked for.

And in this group is a large proportion of couples who are conscientious and pleasant people. It's not radical or "purple pill" to acknowledge that.

[nola]

(05-22-2018 11:09 AM)Lunostrelki Wrote:  

Most marriages, even western marriages, between people with college education are stable. In this demographic bracket most people are smart or responsible enough to understand that divorce and blatant cheating would undermine all they worked for.

And in this group is a large proportion of couples who are conscientious and pleasant people. It's not radical or "purple pill" to acknowledge that.

Umm I'd say these odds are still pretty bad... About the Same odds of holding on a soft 16 in blackjack.

I'm going to stick to counting cards for now.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...-marriage/

[ProGambler]

Good to have a post like this to remind members that there are marriage suitable girls out there. The pool has shrunk in the last few decades and you have to make some sacrifices and be disciplined but the rewards are unrivalled if you do it right.

[Lunostrelki]

(05-22-2018 11:41 AM)nola Wrote:  

(05-22-2018 11:09 AM)Lunostrelki Wrote:  

Most marriages, even western marriages, between people with college education are stable. In this demographic bracket most people are smart or responsible enough to understand that divorce and blatant cheating would undermine all they worked for.

And in this group is a large proportion of couples who are conscientious and pleasant people. It's not radical or "purple pill" to acknowledge that.

Umm I'd say these odds are still pretty bad... About the Same odds of holding on a soft 16 in blackjack.

I'm going to stick to counting cards for now.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...-marriage/

First of all, if you're the kind of guy who thinks marriage is a question of luck, that's pretty depressing.

Also, your own link says that 79% of women with college education stick to their marriages, versus 49% for those who dropped out and 40% for those who only went to high school. That's a pretty telling gap.

[yankeetravels]

(05-22-2018 11:41 AM)nola Wrote:  

(05-22-2018 11:09 AM)Lunostrelki Wrote:  

Most marriages, even western marriages, between people with college education are stable. In this demographic bracket most people are smart or responsible enough to understand that divorce and blatant cheating would undermine all they worked for.

And in this group is a large proportion of couples who are conscientious and pleasant people. It's not radical or "purple pill" to acknowledge that.

Umm I'd say these odds are still pretty bad... About the Same odds of holding on a soft 16 in blackjack.

I'm going to stick to counting cards for now.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...-marriage/

Very interesting link NOLA. For those in the TLDR mode, the article says that women with a bachelor's degree are more likely to be in successful marriages by about 30%, Asian women have a 15% higher success rate in marriage than any other race, and marriages are about 10% more successful if you don't live together first.

If this is all true, definitely forces me to take a second look on this subject. I always believed women's education didn't matter in marriage and that it was definitely better to live together first.

[Lunostrelki]

Women's education definitely matters because we don't live in a society where most girls are peasants' daughters who spent their whole childhood waiting to get paired off with the best man the matchmaker can find for them. Marriage nowadays is a personal decision and if you're more intelligent you're going to make a better decision generally.

If Asians have higher IQ it's not a surprise their marriages last longer as well, for instance.

[Investment Bro]

The one problem I have with those statistics is what is a successful marriage?

My girlfriend, for instance comes from a very traditional background. Her parents have been married since their early 20s. They're very well off now, but watching them interact with each other it's like they're joyless in life. My girlfriend agrees. She never sees them do anything affectionate or the like. My own grandparents are the same way. There's no joy between them. I've seen this pattern repeat itself so many times, that it's clear to me that it's not a path I would personally like to go down.

I would encourage people to hold out hope if that's what they want, but I would also suggest that you be realistic as to what a successful marriage actually is.

[nola]

(05-22-2018 12:08 PM)Lunostrelki Wrote:  

(05-22-2018 11:41 AM)nola Wrote:  

(05-22-2018 11:09 AM)Lunostrelki Wrote:  

Most marriages, even western marriages, between people with college education are stable. In this demographic bracket most people are smart or responsible enough to understand that divorce and blatant cheating would undermine all they worked for.

And in this group is a large proportion of couples who are conscientious and pleasant people. It's not radical or "purple pill" to acknowledge that.

Umm I'd say these odds are still pretty bad... About the Same odds of holding on a soft 16 in blackjack.

I'm going to stick to counting cards for now.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...-marriage/

First of all, if you're the kind of guy who thinks marriage is a question of luck, that's pretty depressing.

Also, your own link says that 79% of women with college education stick to their marriages, versus 49% for those who dropped out and 40% for those who only went to high school. That's a pretty telling gap.

Yes you're correct I think marriage is a matter of luck. But if you'll notice I used blackjack odds as an example to throw you a bone. That's not luck based as you're playing odds which is simply adding values to variables. Slots like Sluts is a luck based game.

Also it actually says 79% of women with bachelors degrees in their FIRST marriages are more likely to stay married for at least 20 years. It does not account for women who previously co-inhabited with boyfriends which is just marriage without a state contract. That sample set had to be fairly small to reach those numbers and I highly doubt it was a blind study.

There are a lot of variables not mentioned in this article that leave a lot of room for debate.

I don't mean to shit all over your post but your thinking is quite flawed on the topic.

Also there is something else you might want to take note of regarding this study. For the sake of debate I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that marriages to girls with a undergraduate degree are more likely to succeed for 20 years or more. Since the average age of a girl getting married in the late to mid 90's was 25 - 30 years old that means they went to college in the late 80's to early 90's long before all this crazy leftist hive mind shit began.

The only way to come to the numbers of 20+ years means that had to study the aforementioned sub-group which would be people aged 45 to early 50's today.

So I'm not so convinced the 25 - 30 year old girls of today are going to last 20+ years in marriage.

It's wishful thinking at best. If you're willing to bet your finances on a girl with a degree today then by all means.....

[Lunostrelki]

(05-22-2018 12:43 PM)nola Wrote:  

I don't mean to shit all over your post but your thinking is quite flawed on the topic.

There are a lot of variables not mentioned in this article that leave a lot of room for debate.

I don't see the flaws. More intelligent people aren't as likely to flip out and capsize their lives. More intelligent people are likelier to finish college. It's common sense that college and long marriages are correlated.

Quote:

Also it actually says 79% of women with bachelors degrees in their FIRST marriages are more likely to stay married for at least 20 years. It does not account for women who previously co-inhabited with boyfriends which is just marriage without a state contract. That sample set had to be fairly small to reach those numbers and I highly doubt it was a blind study.

The first marriage thing is redundant because if a woman has a second marriage, she wouldn't be in the 79% anyway. Cohabitation is also irrelevant for the purposes of the argument, it just means we don't have that extra shade of data. As for the sample set, that's another unknown and we can't use it to make a statement either way.

Quote:

Yes you're correct I think marriage is a matter of luck. If you'll notice I used blackjack odds as an example. That's not luck based as you're playing odds which are simply adding values to variables. Slots like Sluts is a luck based game.

It's a matter of culture, judgement, psychology, and a ton of factors that require wisdom and intelligence to figure out. The real luck-based part about it is if you had good role models in your upbringing.

EDIT: Didn't see this part of your post.

Quote:

So I'm not so convinced the 25 - 30 year old girls of today are going to last 20+ years in marriage.

It's wishful thinking at best. If you're willing to bet your finances on a girl with a degree today then by all means, you're your own man.

It's probably true that girls these days are worse even if they have a degree. But if you do things that way you have to factor in the worsening marriage situation overall, not just that of college-educated women.

As with statistics generally, the figures are good for observing social trends, not so much in making a life decision. It's not like when you pick a girl to marry you tick off two or three demographic boxes and are good to go.

[nola]

(05-22-2018 01:08 PM)Lunostrelki Wrote:  

(05-22-2018 12:43 PM)nola Wrote:  

I don't mean to shit all over your post but your thinking is quite flawed on the topic.

There are a lot of variables not mentioned in this article that leave a lot of room for debate.

I don't see the flaws. More intelligent people aren't as likely to flip out and capsize their lives. More intelligent people are likelier to finish college. It's common sense that college and long marriages are correlated.

Based on what study? divorce rates were lower when it was not common for women to have an education.

That's historical fact, you can use close knit families and religious beliefs as an argument but you better be ready to go back the the divorce of Catherine of Aragon.

Quote:

Also it actually says 79% of women with bachelors degrees in their FIRST marriages are more likely to stay married for at least 20 years. It does not account for women who previously co-inhabited with boyfriends which is just marriage without a state contract. That sample set had to be fairly small to reach those numbers and I highly doubt it was a blind study.

The first marriage thing is redundant because if a woman has a second marriage, she wouldn't be in the 79% anyway. Cohabitation is also irrelevant for the purposes of the argument, it just means we don't have that extra shade of data. As for the sample set, that's another unknown and we can't use it to make a statement either way.

Cohabitation is not irrelevant because when people get married they commence Cohabitation.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...and-older/

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/06/2...abitation/

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...ethnicity/

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/06/2...abitation/

Quote:

Yes you're correct I think marriage is a matter of luck. If you'll notice I used blackjack odds as an example. That's not luck based as you're playing odds which are simply adding values to variables. Slots like Sluts is a luck based game.

It's a matter of culture, judgement, psychology, and a ton of factors that require wisdom and intelligence to figure out. The real luck-based part about it is if you had good role models in your upbringing.

[Alex T]

Yeah.

I can give you examples from my friends, experience, people I met, which actually backs up that Education makes women stick to marriage.

I have three friends of mine who are married. Their wives are WORKING mums ( their choice ) and they were never stay at home mums ( apart from the first year), however, they are very good wives. They come from a background of no casual sex ( just few relationships before their actual husband) and Catholicism. All three of them have been married for 15 years+ now! ( Never have they cheated and LOVE spending time with their husbands). The three women have their Masters within the fields of HR, Engineering and Neuropsychology.

On the other hand, I know another two friends of mine who are now divorced. Both wives were stay at home wives (husband demanded it). Apparently the marriage ended because the women became TOO STRESSED and BORED with just being at home, which lead to arguments and hence divorced... two of them also strayed from the marriage because they felt oppressed that they couldn't do anything besides house chores.. They also never went to University.

I'm starting to believe that women need a balance of BOTH work and house chores in order to remain satisfied in a marriage, which is why it's crucial to educate women.....It's an argument of time management and dedication..... Ideally more for family than work.

[pargan]

(05-22-2018 02:01 PM)Alex T Wrote:  

I'm starting to believe that women need a balance of BOTH work and house chores in order to remain satisfied in a marriage, which is why it's crucial to educate women.....It's an argument of time management and dedication..... Ideally more for family than work.

You can extend that thought to life in general. Basically everyone needs a balance of multiple things to live a fulfilling life. If a women just does housework but has no other meaningful work or any kind of education of course she will get board. But also if a person can only fuck one person for the rest of their life they will also get board. Most people will always want more and will always want something they don't have and this is why most marriages end in divorce.

Let's say 50% of marriages end in divorce. Those are marriages that were straight up terminated and you can ovbiously tell the people in that marriage weren't happy. But what about the other 50% of marriage that didn't get divorced, do you really think they're all happy? Most likely not and I bet the 50% of people that didn't get divorced have a good portion of people that are in very unhappy marriages maybe even the majority of them.

[HankMoody]

Something you all didn't know about your buddy Hank...

I've been in an on and off again LTR since about 2015. We don't live together. Sometimes it's on; sometimes it's not. We say things like "I love you" and take vacations together (mostly camping vacations because that's what I like to do). She comes to church with me, and puts up with all my conservative bullshit, despite being liberal (one of you idiots even sent her screenshots of my RVF posts and it didn't even cause any drama). Sex is good, and I get whatever I want, whenever I want (a girl who is physically attracted to you will do this). When I get sick, she brings me Powerade and snacks. We text back and forth all day, and I don't have to use any text game whatsoever (although at this point game is my natural form of texting, but it's mostly because I'm too busy with work stuff to use punctuation, grammar, or even respond). It's an incredibly easy relationship -- "come over" "lets go camping this wknd" "grab me purple powerade" "church gym brunch".

I would definitely describe her as my "life partner" (or, to use a Biblical term - "ezer." While this word is traditionally translated as "helper", the term means more "supporter".)

But, we're both divorced, own our houses, work full time, and have no real desire to take a shot at an actual marriage. I need time to myself to read, write, sing, do my hobbies, work, etc.

In any event, my point is twofold. First, there are a realm of possibilities out there when it comes to relationships. I know many men who are happily married with kids. I know many men who cheat on their wives. And I know many men who can't seem to find "the One." In my opinion? Find a woman (or several) who makes you happy and doesn't complicate your life. In this day and age you don't need to be married if that doesn't fit into your life. My advice would also be if you're young, to date a lot of women and figure out what works for you, and what doesn't.

Second, there are a lot of different women you will find yourself compatible with. A woman does not need to be your "best friend" to make you happy. Different women will make you happy in different ways. Your "best friend" should be you. She should be your supporter and someone who makes your life more enjoyable. If you want a woman to be your ezer, it starts with you first. When a woman is into you, she'll do everything possible to make you happy.

Finally, understand that younger women are savages -- they respond to looks, game, and "prestige" (you can have "prestige" by being a YouTube celebrity). They'll cheat on you at the drop of a dime to blow the DJ or the guy on the motorcycle.

Yeah yeah yeah, this goes against "game", but women who are in their 30s are generally much easier to deal with.