[asdfk]

Quote:

It is beyond dispute that scientists, as a group, have lost their unique historical status as arbiters of the truth because of the ever-increasing number of scientists who cast aside the scientific method in exchange for money, grants, and political correctness. Nothing that I said declared that there are not many fine professional scientists -- just as there are still many fine journalists. Nice attempt at inserting a big stench-ridden red herring to the debate.

The point of my post -- that Dulceácido's status as a scientist, alone, is irrelevant unless he offers reasoned examples and proof of error -- is unassailable.

And I agree. What did it for me though was your last sentence: "You are purposefully making the perfect the enemy of the good." Which I don't think Dulce was doing at all.

I agree with your statements about scientists as a group. However, I also agree with Dulce that there's a lot of bullshit in this thread, especially with regards to dry fasting.

Again, you are on point with your observations about scientists. But again, Dulce has a point that dry fasting is a bad idea. Perhaps it was easier for me to point out the similarities in extremeness then to mention whom I actually agree with.

[Tail Gunner]

(06-03-2018 01:16 PM)asdfk Wrote:  

Quote:

It is beyond dispute that scientists, as a group, have lost their unique historical status as arbiters of the truth because of the ever-increasing number of scientists who cast aside the scientific method in exchange for money, grants, and political correctness. Nothing that I said declared that there are not many fine professional scientists -- just as there are still many fine journalists. Nice attempt at inserting a big stench-ridden red herring to the debate.

The point of my post -- that Dulceácido's status as a scientist, alone, is irrelevant unless he offers reasoned examples and proof of error -- is unassailable.

And I agree. What did it for me though was your last sentence: "You are purposefully making the perfect the enemy of the good." Which I don't think Dulce was doing at all.

I agree with your statements about scientists as a group. However, I also agree with Dulce that there's a lot of bullshit in this thread, especially with regards to dry fasting.

Again, you are on point with your observations about scientists. But again, Dulce has a point that dry fasting is a bad idea. Perhaps it was easier for me to point out the similarities in extremeness then to mention whom I actually agree with.

Fair enough. I appreciate your measured response. What I meant by "You are purposefully making the perfect the enemy of the good" -- and I probably did not make myself clear -- is his conflating dry fasts with water-only fasts. He claims to be a scientist but then uses vague language that fails to expressly make a distinction between dry fasts (which certainly demand caution) and water-only fasts (which are immensely healthy for the vast majority of people). Any novice reading this post would likely be frightened by him into not doing any type of fast. There is no reason not to take the few seconds necessary to type "dry fast" or "water only fast" to make that distinction clear. But perhaps he is just a sloppy scientist.

[asdfk]

Yeah agreed, that's indeed a shame

[Teutatis]

(06-02-2018 11:45 PM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

Ironically, he's the same guy that talks about intermittent fasting in a lot of videos, which has worked for me in weight loss and strength gain, but that's not even close to the same thing.

I think there are tons of people that just jump on whatever bandwagon or trend that's hot at the moment and just happen to by chance sometimes be right as in the case of food fasting and be completely off like about no water fasting. For them it doesn't matter what is true, just that they make a buck. I even doubt he really even fasts.

[Bain]

I have been in Santiago de Cuba for the last two weeks and just got back a few days ago. Was jogging (fast walking) 11 km along the road by the ocean and mountains on the other side. Was eating a lot of tropical fruits -- especially a fruit called called gunavana -- also a lot of mango trees everywhere. A lot of sun also - I got really dark -- and swimming in the ocean. So my health is amazing right now.

But I am still 40 pounds over weight at 220 lbs. Have this stubborn belly fat -- very hard to get rid of once you get it. I do a full body weight training and cardio about three times a week. By body fat is still a bit high - despite all the fasting I have done. I need to get it down to 10 - 15%. I am in my 50s though so my metabolism is slowing down.

However most important thing about fasting is you get INTERNAL health. Fasting does not mean you will have a ripped body - that is not its purpose. Its purpose is to achieve internal health.

Anyway, today is monday and I always do a dry fast - then on tues I go to the gym and do a fully body work out in a fasted state.

But I think I am going to try another three day dry fast this time. Lets see how it goes. I take it one day at a time and see how I feel -- I never use will power - it rarely works. I should lose about 12 pounds in three days.

Once you get use to fasting it becomes quite enjoyable.

[Arado]

One of the posters in this thread asserted that men need a three day no food fast because that is the time it takes to use up all the glycogen in your system and start tapping into bodyfat.

This youtuber disagrees though and asserts that it could take as little as 6 hours for someone that is fat adapted and eating low carb, but that most people start burning fat once they hit the 12 hour fast mark. So all they have to do is skip breakfast and they'll burn some bodyfat before lunch? Seems too good to be true.

What's the reality? Obviously people lose weight through regular IF and calorie counting, but if after three days fasting it's an even more intense fat burning than with just IF then maybe I'll give it a shot when I have a light work schedule.

[Tail Gunner]

(06-04-2018 01:34 PM)Arado Wrote:  

One of the posters in this thread asserted that men need a three day no food fast because that is the time it takes to use up all the glycogen in your system and start tapping into bodyfat.

This youtuber disagrees though and asserts that it could take as little as 6 hours for someone that is fat adapted and eating low carb, but that most people start burning fat once they hit the 12 hour fast mark. So all they have to do is skip breakfast and they'll burn some bodyfat before lunch? Seems too good to be true.

What's the reality? Obviously people lose weight through regular IF and calorie counting, but if after three days fasting it's an even more intense fat burning than with just IF then maybe I'll give it a shot when I have a light work schedule.

That was me who stated that it takes about three days for a man to achieve full ketosis (obviously it will vary from man to man). As you seemed to surmise by your last sentence, there is no conflict between the two statements. Arriving at full ketosis is a process that requires time, but you will begin to burn fat before you reach full ketosis. For example, at the fasting clinic where I stayed, there were four levels of ketosis (on a scale of one to four). It was measured each morning through a urine sample. While I achieved full ketosis (a level of four) on a water-only fast, my suite mate -- who could not water fast but could only juice fast because of health issues -- never achieved a ketosis level of more than two.

Quote:

Blood ketones are best measured on a fasted stomach in the morning (before breakfast, that is). Here are a few pointers on how to interpret the result:

Below 0.5 mmol/L is not considered “ketosis”. At this level, you’re far away from maximum fat-burning.

Between 0.5-1.5 mmol/L is light nutritional ketosis. You’ll be getting a good effect on your weight, but not optimal.

Around 1.5 – 3 mmol/L is what’s called optimal ketosis and is recommended for maximum weight loss.

Values of over 3 mmol/L aren’t neccessary. That is, they will achieve neither better nor worse results than being at the 1.5-3 level. Higher values can also sometimes mean that you’re not getting enough food. For type 1 diabetics, it can be caused by a severe lack of insulin, see below.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/lose-weight-b...al-ketosis


   

https://ketodietapp.com/Blog/lchf/Ketosi...ng-Ketones

[Dulceácido]

(06-03-2018 01:48 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(06-03-2018 01:16 PM)asdfk Wrote:  

Quote:

It is beyond dispute that scientists, as a group, have lost their unique historical status as arbiters of the truth because of the ever-increasing number of scientists who cast aside the scientific method in exchange for money, grants, and political correctness. Nothing that I said declared that there are not many fine professional scientists -- just as there are still many fine journalists. Nice attempt at inserting a big stench-ridden red herring to the debate.

The point of my post -- that Dulceácido's status as a scientist, alone, is irrelevant unless he offers reasoned examples and proof of error -- is unassailable.

And I agree. What did it for me though was your last sentence: "You are purposefully making the perfect the enemy of the good." Which I don't think Dulce was doing at all.

I agree with your statements about scientists as a group. However, I also agree with Dulce that there's a lot of bullshit in this thread, especially with regards to dry fasting.

Again, you are on point with your observations about scientists. But again, Dulce has a point that dry fasting is a bad idea. Perhaps it was easier for me to point out the similarities in extremeness then to mention whom I actually agree with.

Fair enough. I appreciate your measured response. What I meant by "You are purposefully making the perfect the enemy of the good" -- and I probably did not make myself clear -- is his conflating dry fasts with water-only fasts. He claims to be a scientist but then uses vague language that fails to expressly make a distinction between dry fasts (which certainly demand caution) and water-only fasts (which are immensely healthy for the vast majority of people). Any novice reading this post would likely be frightened by him into not doing any type of fast. There is no reason not to take the few seconds necessary to type "dry fast" or "water only fast" to make that distinction clear. But perhaps he is just a sloppy scientist.

Perhaps, I'm sloppy. I only studied microbiology and bio-physics, but clearly there's the possibility that I'm not as informed as some roided out douchebag with 100's of youtube videos where he's trying to sell you shit in every single one and get you to subscribe to his youtube channel.

Additionally, I'm not going to write a damn advanced scientific dissertation--explaining to non-scientists skeptics who get their bullshit from whatever is the coolest youtube video that aligns with what they have already determined they believe--when you can look it up yourself. Just like I'm not going to explain to you exactly how gravity works, why magnets attract and repel, or how water is needed for cellular respiration... You don't have the background to understand it.

Why don't you stop looking at all those videos you want to believe from all those cucks trying to sell you their bullshit products and programs that you have already decided can only be true and sign up for a biology class at a local college? You could also do a little research into the bodily effects of dehydration with a simple Google search.

You are making a classic scientific mistake: you are only looking at the information that supports the outcome of what you want to be true. It happens all the time. It gets thoroughly refuted but you want to believe your hypothesis so badly that you create failed experiment after failed experiment (because your pride won't let it go) that you suspect will support your outcome.

[Bain]

Dulceácido -- Bro, I appreciate your posts bc I think this topic is not discussed enough and there is so much wrong information out there.

The food, medical and pharmaceutical industries have brainwashed people so much and they control people's minds. It sad bc profit is more important to them than people's real health.

Many illnesses can be wiped out if people are just properly educated. It all boils down to proper eating, fasting and exercise. That is it.

Real internal health and energy is one of life's greatest joys and gifts.

Every time I complete a fast I experience that and am so grateful.

If I may humbly say though your posts are lacking logic and reasoning which make it difficult to have a constructive dialogue.

I would really enjoy some good debate and discussion here bc I think this topic is so important.

I would also really like forum members here to give fasting a try. It is very difficult to do in the beginning and many fear it also. There are also different kinds of fasting - that one can do to best suit their goals and outcomes.

I have been using fasting methods for over twenty nears and I know the rewards are amazing.

There are also other big side topics to be discussed. I really believe that half the world population is going to die out in the next 150 years. And the food, medical and pharmaceutical industries are going to be the main cause of that.

I know this is off topic but recently a billionaire pharma husband and wife couple were mysteriously murdered in their own home in Toronto. They made billions in the pharmaceutical industry. You have to wonder if karma was the real cause.

Btw, I just completed by Monday dry fast which I have been doing every monday for about 20 years now and I again feel amazing this morning. Light and full of energy. I would usually go for a workout now but I am going to try to do three days of dry fasting this time. I put no pressure on myself and can break it anytime if I want though.

[Dulceácido]

Bain, with all due respect, I don't think I can speak with any more "logic and reasoning" than I did in my last post. Maybe I've gone insane and lost all mental faculty if that's the way you feel. Like, to the point that I can't understand the meanings of words.

I do intermittent fasting (food-not water) myself and have seen benefits, but recommending that someone go 10 days without water is dangerous and irresponsible information being put out as "fact" by ridiculously unqualified people.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for the process, but maybe instead of recommending it for other people--not a good policy. Just say it works for you and you love it, are excited about it, and if others want to try, they should do their due diligence.

The pharma/food conspiracy you have going on is.... Well, I don't even know how to address that, really. It's so farfetched that it's almost out of the realm of rational discussion. Then to suggest that a couple was murdered due to karma for being involved in big pharma... Whew. I guess, when you are coming from that perspective, I can see how you could not see logic or reasoning in my words.

[Tail Gunner]

(06-05-2018 11:15 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

The pharma/food conspiracy you have going on is.... Well, I don't even know how to address that, really. It's so farfetched that it's almost out of the realm of rational discussion.

If you really believe that, then you are not educated enough on the topic to insert yourself into a discussion. This "conspiracy" has been established factually in numerous courts. There are hundreds of news articles (and also videos on Youtube) documenting this stuff. This is just one excerpt pulled at random from the web (I could cite 100 examples):

Quote:

One of the documents unsealed by Judge Vince Chhabria was an email written by William F. Heydens, a Monsanto executive, giving his colleagues the green light to ghostwrite glyphosate research and then hire academics to put their names on the papers. He even cited an instance where the company had used this method in the past. "We would be keeping the cost down by us doing the writing and they would just edit & sign their names so to speak," wrote Heydens.

https://www.ecowatch.com/monsanto-cancer...43832.html

So, Monasanto is writing its own material about the safety of its products (stuff that we ingest into our bodies) and then finding corrupt scientists to simply sign off on the documents. This is just one of many examples of Monsanto's evil nature (and I say that as a pro-business conservative).


In fact, the name "Monsanto" is so negative and so discredited that when Bayer recently purchased Monsanto it elected to change the name.

Quote:

"Bayer will remain the company name," Bayer said in a statement. "Monsanto will no longer be a company name. The acquired products will retain their brand names and become part of the Bayer portfolio."
* * *
Monsanto long has been a lightning rod for what critics say is its role in environmental degradation and perpetuation of harmful chemicals."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/201...668418002/


So, if you are even half as ignorant as you sound on this topic, you should not insert yourself into a discussion to discourage men from improving their lives by using the trial-and-error scientific method to better themselves.

[Arado]

(06-04-2018 03:10 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

That was me who stated that it takes about three days for a man to achieve full ketosis (obviously it will vary from man to man). As you seemed to surmise by your last sentence, there is no conflict between the two statements. Arriving at full ketosis is a process that requires time, but you will begin to burn fat before you reach full ketosis. For example, at the fasting clinic where I stayed, there were four levels of ketosis (on a scale of one to four). It was measured each morning through a urine sample. While I achieved full ketosis (a level of four) on a water-only fast, my suite mate -- who could not water fast but could only juice fast because of health issues -- never achieved a ketosis level of more than two.

Quote:

Blood ketones are best measured on a fasted stomach in the morning (before breakfast, that is). Here are a few pointers on how to interpret the result:

Below 0.5 mmol/L is not considered “ketosis”. At this level, you’re far away from maximum fat-burning.

Between 0.5-1.5 mmol/L is light nutritional ketosis. You’ll be getting a good effect on your weight, but not optimal.

Around 1.5 – 3 mmol/L is what’s called optimal ketosis and is recommended for maximum weight loss.

Values of over 3 mmol/L aren’t neccessary. That is, they will achieve neither better nor worse results than being at the 1.5-3 level. Higher values can also sometimes mean that you’re not getting enough food. For type 1 diabetics, it can be caused by a severe lack of insulin, see below.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/lose-weight-b...al-ketosis
https://ketodietapp.com/Blog/lchf/Ketosi...ng-Ketones

Thanks for the reply.

So if I'm reading this correctly, then at the 12 hour fast mark (when insulin levels are low enough to start accessing the body fat) , there is still glycogen left in my body/liver, but my body has started supplementing that with body fat as an energy source?

At this point, ketones start to appear in the urine, but at the low levels (<.5 mmol/L) you are writing about above?

As the glycogen reserves dwindle, my body gets an ever growing % of energy from body fat, causing the ketone concentration to rise closer to the maximum weight loss level?

I'm still confused about how your mate drinking juice was still able to achieve ketosis despite drinking juice - is it that his insulin spikes weren't that extreme, so his system was able to clear the insulin from his blood (likely overnight?) before his next juice intake so there was a small window for him to metabolize body fat, producing some ketones?

[Tail Gunner]

(06-05-2018 11:56 AM)Arado Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 03:10 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

That was me who stated that it takes about three days for a man to achieve full ketosis (obviously it will vary from man to man). As you seemed to surmise by your last sentence, there is no conflict between the two statements. Arriving at full ketosis is a process that requires time, but you will begin to burn fat before you reach full ketosis. For example, at the fasting clinic where I stayed, there were four levels of ketosis (on a scale of one to four). It was measured each morning through a urine sample. While I achieved full ketosis (a level of four) on a water-only fast, my suite mate -- who could not water fast but could only juice fast because of health issues -- never achieved a ketosis level of more than two.

Quote:

Blood ketones are best measured on a fasted stomach in the morning (before breakfast, that is). Here are a few pointers on how to interpret the result:

Below 0.5 mmol/L is not considered “ketosis”. At this level, you’re far away from maximum fat-burning.

Between 0.5-1.5 mmol/L is light nutritional ketosis. You’ll be getting a good effect on your weight, but not optimal.

Around 1.5 – 3 mmol/L is what’s called optimal ketosis and is recommended for maximum weight loss.

Values of over 3 mmol/L aren’t neccessary. That is, they will achieve neither better nor worse results than being at the 1.5-3 level. Higher values can also sometimes mean that you’re not getting enough food. For type 1 diabetics, it can be caused by a severe lack of insulin, see below.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/lose-weight-b...al-ketosis
https://ketodietapp.com/Blog/lchf/Ketosi...ng-Ketones

Thanks for the reply.

So if I'm reading this correctly, then at the 12 hour fast mark (when insulin levels are low enough to start accessing the body fat) , there is still glycogen left in my body/liver, but my body has started supplementing that with body fat as an energy source?

Yes

At this point, ketones start to appear in the urine, but at the low levels (<.5 mmol/L) you are writing about above?

Yes

As the glycogen reserves dwindle, my body gets an ever growing % of energy from body fat, causing the ketone concentration to rise closer to the maximum weight loss level?

Yes

I'm still confused about how your mate drinking juice was still able to achieve ketosis despite drinking juice - is it that his insulin spikes weren't that extreme, so his system was able to clear the insulin from his blood (likely overnight?) before his next juice intake so there was a small window for him to metabolize body fat, producing some ketones?

Regarding that last point, I cannot provide a detailed scientific explanation for how it happens (ketois on a juice-only fast), I just know (from first-hand knowledge) that it happens. I just found this confirmation on the web from someone else:

Quote:

Supporting data:

I have been on a juice fast for 9 days now and have been in ketosis since day 3. I am drinking 75 oz of carrot, a variety of green vegetables and a total of 1.5 apples and 1.5 pears per day in the juice blend. I am taking 25 grams of collagen hydrolysate protein per day and 32 oz of vegetable soup broth that has a little bit of collagen protein dissolved in it.

I've lost 8.5 lbs and 3% body fat in the last 9 days.

http://forum.marksdailyapple.com/forum/t...s-question


If you do some research on the web, you may discover exactly how this occurs -- and at what rate.


This is real cutting-edge medicine. Even the doctors at the medical clinic where I fasted for two weeks cannot explain the exact mechanism that causes the medical "miracles" that they witness on a regular basis. Is it the fasting itself? Is it the creation of ketones? Is it both? They do not know for sure.

One of the cool things about the fasting clinic was that it holds daily classes for its patients taught by the staff doctors -- and you could ask them whatever you wanted. It was a wealth of information about cutting edge holistic medicine by an impressive array of doctors. Videos by Dr. Goldhamer, Dr. Klaper, Dr. Lisle, and others are available on Youtube. Dr. Klaper discusses a water-only fast versus a juice cleanse at the 13:25 mark. He states that a juice cleanse will not bring you into ketosis, but that is not my understanding (perhaps he really means that it will not bring you into therapeutic ketosis):

[Tail Gunner]

I just located this daily journal from someone who fasted for a week at True North:

http://renegadehealth.com/blog/2016/02/1...7-day-fast

[jamaicabound]

I tend to get headaches at about 4pm if I don't eat all day. Any way to combat this or just something you need to build up and fight through?

[Tail Gunner]

(06-05-2018 02:20 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  

I tend to get headaches at about 4pm if I don't eat all day. Any way to combat this or just something you need to build up and fight through?

That is quite typical if you have developed an addiction to sugar, caffeine, or some other substance. You are experiencing withdrawal symptoms. That is discussed elsewhere in this thread. You just need to bull your way through it. The good news is that once you are off that substance, the headaches will never happen again during a fast. The bad news is that if you continue to ingest that substance after you break your fast, you will most likely experience those headaches before each new fast. Your choice. Your body is telling you something. Listen to it.

[asdfk]

(06-05-2018 02:20 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  

I tend to get headaches at about 4pm if I don't eat all day. Any way to combat this or just something you need to build up and fight through?

Drink water, lick some good salt of your hand and then take a nap. See if that helps.

[Bain]

(06-05-2018 11:15 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

I do intermittent fasting (food-not water) myself and have seen benefits, but recommending that someone go 10 days without water is dangerous and irresponsible information being put out as "fact" by ridiculously unqualified people.

This is another example of false information. Where did anyone suggest to go 10 days without water?

[Dulceácido]

(06-05-2018 02:57 PM)Bain Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:15 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

I do intermittent fasting (food-not water) myself and have seen benefits, but recommending that someone go 10 days without water is dangerous and irresponsible information being put out as "fact" by ridiculously unqualified people.

This is another example of false information. Where did anyone suggest to go 10 days without water?

No idea where I got that information. Perhaps because the title of the thread is "10 day water fast completed."

[Dulceácido]

(06-05-2018 11:38 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:15 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

The pharma/food conspiracy you have going on is.... Well, I don't even know how to address that, really. It's so farfetched that it's almost out of the realm of rational discussion.

If you really believe that, then you are not educated enough on the topic to insert yourself into a discussion. This "conspiracy" has been established factually in numerous courts. There are hundreds of news articles (and also videos on Youtube) documenting this stuff. This is just one excerpt pulled at random from the web (I could cite 100 examples):

Quote:

One of the documents unsealed by Judge Vince Chhabria was an email written by William F. Heydens, a Monsanto executive, giving his colleagues the green light to ghostwrite glyphosate research and then hire academics to put their names on the papers. He even cited an instance where the company had used this method in the past. "We would be keeping the cost down by us doing the writing and they would just edit & sign their names so to speak," wrote Heydens.

https://www.ecowatch.com/monsanto-cancer...43832.html

So, Monasanto is writing its own material about the safety of its products (stuff that we ingest into our bodies) and then finding corrupt scientists to simply sign off on the documents. This is just one of many examples of Monsanto's evil nature (and I say that as a pro-business conservative).


In fact, the name "Monsanto" is so negative and so discredited that when Bayer recently purchased Monsanto it elected to change the name.

Quote:

"Bayer will remain the company name," Bayer said in a statement. "Monsanto will no longer be a company name. The acquired products will retain their brand names and become part of the Bayer portfolio."
* * *
Monsanto long has been a lightning rod for what critics say is its role in environmental degradation and perpetuation of harmful chemicals."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/201...668418002/


So, if you are even half as ignorant as you sound on this topic, you should not insert yourself into a discussion to discourage men from improving their lives by using the trial-and-error scientific method to better themselves.

Okay... So, by searching countless conspiracy and propaganda websites with nonsensical information, you singlehandedly discovered a global conspiracy between the food, pharma, and medical industries. Cool story, Bro. Because clearly there isn't a single investigative journalist that knows all this information and just hasn't pulled the trigger and exposed this. Why don't you do it? You'd win a damn Nobel Prize.
And, obviously, there is no government agency in the entire world that isn't implicit in this conspiracy because none have even mentioned a peep.
You seem to be blissfully unaware of the effort it would involve to conceal such a thing. And why is it that only weirdo internet guys are posting this information? They should prove it. The vast global outcry, if such a thing existed, would be heard in other galaxies.

And yes, we can agree that there are some "scientists" with zero credibility. You are 100% correct and they are the exact retards that keep perpetuating this ridiculous shit that you are spewing.

And you're the one calling me "ignorant..." Pssst, when you go take an actual science course, you may want to look into visiting a mental health professional. Oh, wait, they're part of the "conspiracy." It's not the very, very minute population of "internet scientist" who are wrong; it's the overwhelmingly vast majority of all scientists, doctors, biologists, nutritionists, and food producers on the entire planet who are diabolically insane and inexplicably interwoven to actually inform people of what millions of years of evolution have verified...

All the stuff you post is from these hysterically laughable sources. "Hey guys! Here's the scientific facts I just discovered scribbled on the back of a napkin when I accidentally fell into a hedge!" Awesome. You are the man!

[booshala]

Recently finished 5 days out of an attempted 7 day fast with water only. Was in mild ketosis before I started the fast so initially adapting was much easier this time around. Unfortunately, on the 4th day I had crazy headaches and was nauseated all day. Tried to tough it out for one more day, woke up and the symptoms were still there, so broke the fast with some bone broth at 125 hours in. Strangely enough, I was never really hungry the entire time I was fasting, it was the nausea and headaches that made me bow out.

Pros: Lost 17 lbs on the scale (stabilized to 10 lbs total) and had increased mental cognition at times (was able to cobble together some really interesting arbitrage plays and options writing). Food tastes incredibly good now even weeks after the fast and I find myself eating much slower and savoring meals. Always had problems getting into ketosis unless I took exogenous ketones and with HIIT, but post-fast I'm finding it much easier to stay in ketosis along with maintaining 18/6 intermittent fasting. After not eating for 5 days, going without food for 18 hours is a breeze.

Cons: Aforementioned nausea and headaches on day 4 and 5, very low energy throughout. I was housesitting that week so I was able to lay around most of the day other than a 45 minute walk in the mornings and occasional pushups/bodyweight squats. Even with being that sedentary, I was very tired and would crash at 8-9pm and have dreamless sleep for 10-12 hours. I don't think this level of lethargy would be feasible if I had a 9-5 job to go to daily. Used to do week-long juice fasts several times a year and never had a problem with energy when I held down an office job, but looking back that was probably 700-1000 calories a day of juice.

Still unsure whether or not to think it's pseudo-science but I think I experienced a lot of ancillary benefits from the fast. Mainly from testing my self-discipline and doing something that most people think is crazy. Also gave me good perspective on physical vs mental hunger and I think it's enabled me to be more thoughtful about my diet and exercise regime.

[Tail Gunner]

(06-05-2018 09:18 PM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:38 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:15 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

The pharma/food conspiracy you have going on is.... Well, I don't even know how to address that, really. It's so farfetched that it's almost out of the realm of rational discussion.

If you really believe that, then you are not educated enough on the topic to insert yourself into a discussion. This "conspiracy" has been established factually in numerous courts. There are hundreds of news articles (and also videos on Youtube) documenting this stuff. This is just one excerpt pulled at random from the web (I could cite 100 examples):

Quote:

One of the documents unsealed by Judge Vince Chhabria was an email written by William F. Heydens, a Monsanto executive, giving his colleagues the green light to ghostwrite glyphosate research and then hire academics to put their names on the papers. He even cited an instance where the company had used this method in the past. "We would be keeping the cost down by us doing the writing and they would just edit & sign their names so to speak," wrote Heydens.

https://www.ecowatch.com/monsanto-cancer...43832.html

So, Monasanto is writing its own material about the safety of its products (stuff that we ingest into our bodies) and then finding corrupt scientists to simply sign off on the documents. This is just one of many examples of Monsanto's evil nature (and I say that as a pro-business conservative).


In fact, the name "Monsanto" is so negative and so discredited that when Bayer recently purchased Monsanto it elected to change the name.

Quote:

"Bayer will remain the company name," Bayer said in a statement. "Monsanto will no longer be a company name. The acquired products will retain their brand names and become part of the Bayer portfolio."
* * *
Monsanto long has been a lightning rod for what critics say is its role in environmental degradation and perpetuation of harmful chemicals."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/201...668418002/


So, if you are even half as ignorant as you sound on this topic, you should not insert yourself into a discussion to discourage men from improving their lives by using the trial-and-error scientific method to better themselves.

Okay... So, by searching countless conspiracy and propaganda websites with nonsensical information, you singlehandedly discovered a global conspiracy between the food, pharma, and medical industries. Cool story, Bro. Because clearly there isn't a single investigative journalist that knows all this information and just hasn't pulled the trigger and exposed this. Why don't you do it? You'd win a damn Nobel Prize.
And, obviously, there is no government agency in the entire world that isn't implicit in this conspiracy because none have even mentioned a peep.
You seem to be blissfully unaware of the effort it would involve to conceal such a thing. And why is it that only weirdo internet guys are posting this information? They should prove it. The vast global outcry, if such a thing existed, would be heard in other galaxies.

And yes, we can agree that there are some "scientists" with zero credibility. You are 100% correct and they are the exact retards that keep perpetuating this ridiculous shit that you are spewing.

And you're the one calling me "ignorant..." Pssst, when you go take an actual science course, you may want to look into visiting a mental health professional. Oh, wait, they're part of the "conspiracy." It's not the very, very minute population of "internet scientist" who are wrong; it's the overwhelmingly vast majority of all scientists, doctors, biologists, nutritionists, and food producers on the entire planet who are diabolically insane and inexplicably interwoven to actually inform people of what millions of years of evolution have verified...

All the stuff you post is from these hysterically laughable sources. "Hey guys! Here's the scientific facts I just discovered scribbled on the back of a napkin when I accidentally fell into a hedge!" Awesome. You are the man!

Bain was quite clear about the type of conspiracy that he meant: "It sad bc profit is more important to them than people's real health."

I then identified one particular conspiracy (of many) factually proven in a court of law, where Monsanto created fake scientific reports and then paid corrupt scientists to sign them, proving the existence of the exact type of conspiracy that Bain mentioned (where a food company places profits above the health of its customers). The example that I provided is the dictionary definition of conspiracy: "A conspiracy is a secret agreement by people to commit something wrong or illegal." People are charged with criminal conspiracy every day in court.

At this point, I must assume that you are a troll, because no one is stupid enough not to look up the dictionary definition of conspiracy, much less someone who is a scientist. Of course, if you truly are a scientist -- and half as ignorant as you have demonstrated -- then you are the poster child for why people no longer trust scientists as a group.

It really sucks that obvious trolls such as yourself take over these threads, where thinking men are trying to improve their lives.

[Tail Gunner]

(06-05-2018 11:04 PM)booshala Wrote:  

Recently finished 5 days out of an attempted 7 day fast with water only. Was in mild ketosis before I started the fast so initially adapting was much easier this time around. Unfortunately, on the 4th day I had crazy headaches and was nauseated all day. Tried to tough it out for one more day, woke up and the symptoms were still there, so broke the fast with some bone broth at 125 hours in. Strangely enough, I was never really hungry the entire time I was fasting, it was the nausea and headaches that made me bow out.

Pros: Lost 17 lbs on the scale (stabilized to 10 lbs total) and had increased mental cognition at times (was able to cobble together some really interesting arbitrage plays and options writing). Food tastes incredibly good now even weeks after the fast and I find myself eating much slower and savoring meals. Always had problems getting into ketosis unless I took exogenous ketones and with HIIT, but post-fast I'm finding it much easier to stay in ketosis along with maintaining 18/6 intermittent fasting. After not eating for 5 days, going without food for 18 hours is a breeze.

Cons: Aforementioned nausea and headaches on day 4 and 5, very low energy throughout. I was housesitting that week so I was able to lay around most of the day other than a 45 minute walk in the mornings and occasional pushups/bodyweight squats. Even with being that sedentary, I was very tired and would crash at 8-9pm and have dreamless sleep for 10-12 hours. I don't think this level of lethargy would be feasible if I had a 9-5 job to go to daily. Used to do week-long juice fasts several times a year and never had a problem with energy when I held down an office job, but looking back that was probably 700-1000 calories a day of juice.

Still unsure whether or not to think it's pseudo-science but I think I experienced a lot of ancillary benefits from the fast. Mainly from testing my self-discipline and doing something that most people think is crazy. Also gave me good perspective on physical vs mental hunger and I think it's enabled me to be more thoughtful about my diet and exercise regime.

Congratulations. Do not feel bad about not meeting your initial goal. My first fast, I had a goal of five days and only made it 3-1/2 days. It just felt like it was time to stop (weak as a kitten), so I did.

Everything that you mentioned sounds typical (i.e., within the range of normalcy), except for one thing: losing 17 pounds in only five days. That is a great deal of weight in a short time. For example, I lost almost exactly twenty pounds during a 14-day water-only fast. I think that a pound to a pound-and-a-half is fairly typical for weight loss, with two pounds at the top end of the range. Of course, everyone is different. Perhaps you are a really big guy, so losing more than three pounds a day is proportional to your weight. Thanks for sharing your fasting story.

[Dulceácido]

(06-05-2018 11:40 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

Bain was quite clear about the type of conspiracy that he meant: "It sad bc profit is more important to them than people's real health."

I then identified one particular conspiracy (of many) factually proven in a court of law, where Monsanto created fake scientific reports and then paid corrupt scientists to sign them, proving the existence of the exact type of conspiracy that Bain mentioned (where a food company places profits above the health of its customers). The example that I provided is the dictionary definition of conspiracy: "A conspiracy is a secret agreement by people to commit something wrong or illegal." People are charged with criminal conspiracy every day in court.

At this point, I must assume that you are a troll, because no one is stupid enough not to look up the dictionary definition of conspiracy, much less someone who is a scientist. Of course, if you truly are a scientist -- and half as ignorant as you have demonstrated -- then you are the poster child for why people no longer trust scientists as a group.

It really sucks that obvious trolls such as yourself take over these threads, where thinking men are trying to improve their lives.

Oh, I'm a troll now... Yeah. You're really standing on your own two feet here.

One entity gets busted doing some sketchy shit, so it's a global "conspiracy." "FACTUALLY PROVEN IN A COURT OF LAW." Jesus, Dude. Just because one nasty dude gets crabs from a hooker, doesn't mean we're all dying of AIDS.

Bain, who I respect slightly more than you, said, "I really believe that half the world population is going to die out in the next 150 years. And the food, medical and pharmaceutical industries are going to be the main cause of that." Maybe you didn't read that part, or maybe you're just picking and choosing things out of context (your modus operandi) to make yourself sound legit, and you are failing miserably.

So, now I'm an "obvious troll," I'm "ignorant." I'm "stupid." Anymore insults you'd like to launch at me? I have used all the restraint in my soul not to personally insult you. Trust me. It has been painstaking. You can't keep things civil because you are struggling so hard to maintain this mystical/holistic nonsense, which is medically dangerous for a large percentage of the population, for the sole purpose of pushing your agenda that has no proven health benefits and a mountain of contradictory scientific evidence... Rock on.

[Tail Gunner]

(06-06-2018 12:06 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:40 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

Bain was quite clear about the type of conspiracy that he meant: "It sad bc profit is more important to them than people's real health."

I then identified one particular conspiracy (of many) factually proven in a court of law, where Monsanto created fake scientific reports and then paid corrupt scientists to sign them, proving the existence of the exact type of conspiracy that Bain mentioned (where a food company places profits above the health of its customers). The example that I provided is the dictionary definition of conspiracy: "A conspiracy is a secret agreement by people to commit something wrong or illegal." People are charged with criminal conspiracy every day in court.

At this point, I must assume that you are a troll, because no one is stupid enough not to look up the dictionary definition of conspiracy, much less someone who is a scientist. Of course, if you truly are a scientist -- and half as ignorant as you have demonstrated -- then you are the poster child for why people no longer trust scientists as a group.

It really sucks that obvious trolls such as yourself take over these threads, where thinking men are trying to improve their lives.

Bain, who I respect slightly more than you, said, "I really believe that half the world population is going to die out in the next 150 years. And the food, medical and pharmaceutical industries are going to be the main cause of that." Maybe you didn't read that part, or maybe you're just picking and choosing things out of context (your modus operandi) to make yourself sound legit, and you are failing miserably.

What he stated is absolutely true. About 95+% of all auto-immune disease is caused by food intake and toxin overload caused because corporate "profit is more important to them than people's real health." This is well-established among holistic medical doctors (which is why they know that fasting works). So-called mainstream doctors are only now catching on:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4034518/

Then when these people get sick, big pharma provides them with "medicine" that addresses the symptoms rather than the underlying causes (junk food and toxin overload). "The average 70-year-old is taking seven different prescription medications,” said Altman." "So far the OFFSIDES database includes an average of 329 new adverse events for each of the 1,332 drugs included in the system." So, an average 70-year-old is taking seven different prescription medications each of which can have over 300 potential side effects. Yea, nothing going on there.

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2...rithm.html

This article was published by Stanford Medicine, so probably nothing that would interest you.