^Good post, I will say liberal whites can definitely be worse about their racism though. Some of the worst racism I’ve ever received has come from liberal whites. The conservative whites I’ve known have by and large been good people, one even stuck up for me against a racist white liberal woman. I’ve gotten racism and shitty vibes from ghetto blacks and latinos but great treatment from middle class minorities. From Indians I’ve more seen intense self hate than anything, also a lot of IRT racism against black people. I personally fare best around educated white conservatives or around a diversity of middle-class minorities, I don’t vibe with liberal whites and try to avoid them when possible. Their liberalism is abstract at best and often hides genuine hatred for minorities, plus their culture is incredibly passive aggressive and treacherous. Just my two cents.
Indian Guy Game/Travel Thread
Quote: (05-15-2018 11:34 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:
I disagree with this idea that Indian men in the UK have it better than Indian men in the US, maybe I am just naive here.
Outside of whiny dorky Indian guys or a select few crowds (typically made up of white washed self-hating Indian and Asian girls), from my experience the Indian guy image is not all that bad here. I have not found that much open racism due to being Indian (other than from other Indians and brown people) and generally felt quite accepted by most Americans.
Of all the western countries, I think Indian guys have the highest ceiling here in the US. Outside of a select few cities where an overabundance of creepy fobby guys from India have legitimately messed up the reputation for even cool Indian dudes (San Fran is the main one that comes to mind), I think a well put together Indian guy is good to go. There does not seem to be that targeted dislike towards Indians in this country due to a lack of history between the US and India compared to India and the UK.
But it does come back to my original post, it all comes down to things like looks and game. Lots of guys who lack both will blame race for their lack of failure and Indian guys seem to do this moreso than any other race out there. If you have an Indian guy with above average looks and tight game, I think he is far better off in the US than the UK.
Aren't there more ISIS sympathizing Pakis & Bangladeshi's in the UK that are screwing things up for the normal democracy loving desi's compared to the USA?
Quote: (05-17-2018 12:57 AM)Bastard Sword Wrote:
^Good post, I will say liberal whites can definitely be worse about their racism though. Some of the worst racism I’ve ever received has come from liberal whites. The conservative whites I’ve known have by and large been good people, one even stuck up for me against a racist white liberal woman. I’ve gotten racism and shitty vibes from ghetto blacks and latinos but great treatment from middle class minorities. From Indians I’ve more seen intense self hate than anything, also a lot of IRT racism against black people. I personally fare best around educated white conservatives or around a diversity of middle-class minorities, I don’t vibe with liberal whites and try to avoid them when possible. Their liberalism is abstract at best and often hides genuine hatred for minorities, plus their culture is incredibly passive aggressive and treacherous. Just my two cents.
Can you give me some examples of the bold?
I think I might be oblivious to a lot of the racism from that crowd. Most I remember from them is just nice to your face one day and just kind of indifferent to you the next.
Has anyone here ever seen an Indian ABCD girl date a FOB Indian guy? I've never seen it, though I've heard stories from girls going on dates with them then the guy has cringeworthy game or gets very clingy.
It's pretty crazy when you think about it - Indian ABCD girls have had their value inflated so much living in the West that they'd rarely consider dating a guy raised in India (minus the very few wealthy cosmopolitan international ones). However, ABCD Indian guys can target both the female ABCD and FOB crowd.
It's pretty crazy when you think about it - Indian ABCD girls have had their value inflated so much living in the West that they'd rarely consider dating a guy raised in India (minus the very few wealthy cosmopolitan international ones). However, ABCD Indian guys can target both the female ABCD and FOB crowd.
I got some positive vibes because I just closed a deal. So I thought I would contribute that to the forum in this thread.
I mentioned I was going to make a post about the cultural aspect of things here, as far as how close we are as "Desi" men towards our culture. On one end we need to almost "hide" it to relate to westernized folks. On another end, there are many aspects of it we enjoy that we have a hard time hiding. For example, I like Indian music and no matter what anyone says about Bollywood, I am a fucking fan. 100%, although I do cringe at the over the top shit just the same.
So the question for someone like me, who grew up in India until the age of 12 is different than it is for a guy that was born here or brought up here. I still speak Hindi and Malayalam fluently, speak with Indian guys in those languages when I can, including the FOB types. I can relate to them. Are some of the more uneducated ones cringeworthy, yes. However, are there many that are quality men and women that really bust their ass especially here in the USA, also yes. So for me to propagate or promote the theme that some of my people are less than others, is a joke to me. I'll never do it. While I understand how someone acting like thug or white washed individual is cringeworthy, there are many genuine native Indian people out there. Again, I am still a lot more like them than my white counterparts.
This is not to say that just "acting" westernized makes you disingenuine to your culture. It's not. Forum members doc holliday and kaotic are more westernized than I am. They are both genuine down to earth guys that make our group of men look good.
There used to be a time I used to qualify myself to white girls by acting as westernized as possible. It made me come across as a beta chodemaster and a complete toolbox. Since I realized this, I have grown to communicate my culture in a more nuanced and powerful way without overwhelming the other person. Let's face it, the problem is that when you have an IRT type, he will flaunt his culture in front of you like it's the best thing. It may be, yes, and I believe many aspects of it are; but, the utter disrespect it shows to other cultures is what is cringeworthy and disingenuine. Think about a gay dude walking around and flaunting his sexuality. Same shit.
There is no reason you can't be a good looking desi guy with a good body, good physical presence and good charisma that is also very Indian or Desi. Be proud of who you are and don't let the IRTs dictate what your culture means. Turn it on its head for more business, pussy or social value. It ain't a damn crutch for god's sakes and it can absolutely be done.
Okay, now I feel ALIVE and Indian!!!
I mentioned I was going to make a post about the cultural aspect of things here, as far as how close we are as "Desi" men towards our culture. On one end we need to almost "hide" it to relate to westernized folks. On another end, there are many aspects of it we enjoy that we have a hard time hiding. For example, I like Indian music and no matter what anyone says about Bollywood, I am a fucking fan. 100%, although I do cringe at the over the top shit just the same.
So the question for someone like me, who grew up in India until the age of 12 is different than it is for a guy that was born here or brought up here. I still speak Hindi and Malayalam fluently, speak with Indian guys in those languages when I can, including the FOB types. I can relate to them. Are some of the more uneducated ones cringeworthy, yes. However, are there many that are quality men and women that really bust their ass especially here in the USA, also yes. So for me to propagate or promote the theme that some of my people are less than others, is a joke to me. I'll never do it. While I understand how someone acting like thug or white washed individual is cringeworthy, there are many genuine native Indian people out there. Again, I am still a lot more like them than my white counterparts.
This is not to say that just "acting" westernized makes you disingenuine to your culture. It's not. Forum members doc holliday and kaotic are more westernized than I am. They are both genuine down to earth guys that make our group of men look good.
There used to be a time I used to qualify myself to white girls by acting as westernized as possible. It made me come across as a beta chodemaster and a complete toolbox. Since I realized this, I have grown to communicate my culture in a more nuanced and powerful way without overwhelming the other person. Let's face it, the problem is that when you have an IRT type, he will flaunt his culture in front of you like it's the best thing. It may be, yes, and I believe many aspects of it are; but, the utter disrespect it shows to other cultures is what is cringeworthy and disingenuine. Think about a gay dude walking around and flaunting his sexuality. Same shit.
There is no reason you can't be a good looking desi guy with a good body, good physical presence and good charisma that is also very Indian or Desi. Be proud of who you are and don't let the IRTs dictate what your culture means. Turn it on its head for more business, pussy or social value. It ain't a damn crutch for god's sakes and it can absolutely be done.
Okay, now I feel ALIVE and Indian!!!
Quote: (05-17-2018 09:37 AM)Arado Wrote:
Has anyone here ever seen an Indian ABCD girl date a FOB Indian guy? I've never seen it, though I've heard stories from girls going on dates with them then the guy has cringeworthy game or gets very clingy.
It's pretty crazy when you think about it - Indian ABCD girls have had their value inflated so much living in the West that they'd rarely consider dating a guy raised in India (minus the very few wealthy cosmopolitan international ones). However, ABCD Indian guys can target both the female ABCD and FOB crowd.
I've actually known a few ABCD Indian girls marry FOB Indian guys, if you can believe it. It does happen every now and then, but yes it's quite rare.
That said, I've heard many more stories of the latter scenario you outlined - ie, ABCD girls goin on dates with some FOB and the situation turning into a fiasco/totally failed date.
FWIW - out-marriage rates are higher for FOB Indian guys than for FOB Indian women. OTOH, out-marriage rates are higher for Indian-American women than for Indian-American men.
Pussy ain't for pussies...
Quote: (05-17-2018 12:35 PM)jselysianeagle Wrote:
Quote: (05-17-2018 09:37 AM)Arado Wrote:
Has anyone here ever seen an Indian ABCD girl date a FOB Indian guy? I've never seen it, though I've heard stories from girls going on dates with them then the guy has cringeworthy game or gets very clingy.
It's pretty crazy when you think about it - Indian ABCD girls have had their value inflated so much living in the West that they'd rarely consider dating a guy raised in India (minus the very few wealthy cosmopolitan international ones). However, ABCD Indian guys can target both the female ABCD and FOB crowd.
I've actually known a few ABCD Indian girls marry FOB Indian guys, if you can believe it. It does happen every now and then, but yes it's quite rare.
That said, I've heard many more stories of the latter scenario you outlined - ie, ABCD girls goin on dates with some FOB and the situation turning into a fiasco/totally failed date.
FWIW - out-marriage rates are higher for FOB Indian guys than for FOB Indian women. OTOH, out-marriage rates are higher for Indian-American women than for Indian-American men.
I'm Indian-American and I've faced my hardships with American/ABCD girls, but I couldn't imagine how hard it would be for a FOB guy. Shit must be HARD in their world in the US
I have a ton of friends that are girls (both Indian and non-Indian) that have shown me dozens of random messages they get on Facebook and LinkedIn (Yeah, fucking LinkedIn, those thirsty motherfuckers) from creepy Indian dudes they've never met before, that are living in India, hitting on them. Even my colombiana that I met in Medellin had some creepy Indian dude from the motherland messaging her on Facebook - she had never even met him before
That's a hard rep to drop
I have a ABCD cousin, feminist to the hilt, married a FOB guy - ended up divorcing him.
A few years later got married to some white beta looking cuck dude.
Odds are it won't end well with him either.
A few years later got married to some white beta looking cuck dude.
Odds are it won't end well with him either.
Quote: (05-17-2018 09:26 AM)a beer is enough Wrote:
Quote: (05-17-2018 12:57 AM)Bastard Sword Wrote:
^Good post, I will say liberal whites can definitely be worse about their racism though. Some of the worst racism I’ve ever received has come from liberal whites. The conservative whites I’ve known have by and large been good people, one even stuck up for me against a racist white liberal woman. I’ve gotten racism and shitty vibes from ghetto blacks and latinos but great treatment from middle class minorities. From Indians I’ve more seen intense self hate than anything, also a lot of IRT racism against black people. I personally fare best around educated white conservatives or around a diversity of middle-class minorities, I don’t vibe with liberal whites and try to avoid them when possible. Their liberalism is abstract at best and often hides genuine hatred for minorities, plus their culture is incredibly passive aggressive and treacherous. Just my two cents.
Can you give me some examples of the bold?
I think I might be oblivious to a lot of the racism from that crowd. Most I remember from them is just nice to your face one day and just kind of indifferent to you the next.
I definitely see this the majority of the time. It's also just really hard to relate to a lot of liberal whites, the shit they're into is a complete mismatch with most second-gen immigrants regardless of background. As a result it does create a lot of indifference, awkwardness, and a generally untrustworthy vibe. As I said earlier I rarely get this from rural, conservative whites, who generally just see you as another human being.
In terms of in your face racism, it usually happens when people are drunk. Or it's from whites from places like the Bay Area where they see tons of Indians but don't necessarily hang out or live near them. I've heard all kinds of dumb shit. A dude told me I deserved a collar around my neck cause I'm brown, a fat white girl started calling me a subhuman cause I wasn't white, one guy (one of my best friends) kept going on about how he "didn't believe cool Indians existed". Unfortunately that kind of racism is a big part of liberal white culture, it's hidden under the surface but boils up if you get too close to these people or are around them when they're too fucked up. I may have heard politically incorrect shit from conservatives but they always had my back and never had the subtle condescension of a lot of white liberals.
I think the culture of big liberal cities is just toxic and poisonous regardless of race. It just filters down differently depending on what category you fall into.
I also have to say I never felt a disadvantage with ABCD women as an ABCD myself, ever. With the exception of a couple extremely hot super white washed ones (only three or four at most who anyway grew up in super white areas), every Indian girl I've ever met has at least tried going for Indian guys. I haven't encountered this self-hating streak in Indian girls that much at all. At the very most I've met ABCD women who were incredibly racist towards black people, but never towards their own men (even extremely dark-skinned South Indians like me).
Also agree that FOBs must have it hard as fuck in America, but that's also because 99% of them are coders from Andhra Pradesh, of course those guys aren't going to be running around slaying white girls. There are many ethnicities and groups in India that would do fine in the west if they actually made it here. When I visited the Indian state of Ladakh I saw tons of dudes who were badass adventure tour operators, I met a guy who could do backflips in a kayak (like flipping the entire boat through the air while inside of it). Guys like that would have no problem spitting game or finding women in the west, it's just that attractive Indian stereotypes are severely underrepresented owing to the influx of computer fobs.
Quote: (05-17-2018 12:44 PM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:
I'm Indian-American and I've faced my hardships with American/ABCD girls, but I couldn't imagine how hard it would be for a FOB guy. Shit must be HARD in their world in the US
I have a ton of friends that are girls (both Indian and non-Indian) that have shown me dozens of random messages they get on Facebook and LinkedIn (Yeah, fucking LinkedIn, those thirsty motherfuckers) from creepy Indian dudes they've never met before, that are living in India, hitting on them. Even my colombiana that I met in Medellin had some creepy Indian dude from the motherland messaging her on Facebook - she had never even met him before
That's a hard rep to drop
Yep. Hardcore FOB Indian guys realistically can only fish in the FOB Indian community or find someone from back home to marry. Otherwise they go the incel/p4p route. Tough, but true.
Quote: (05-17-2018 01:28 PM)Bastard Sword Wrote:
I definitely see this the majority of the time. It's also just really hard to relate to a lot of liberal whites, the shit they're into is a complete mismatch with most second-gen immigrants regardless of background. As a result it does create a lot of indifference, awkwardness, and a generally untrustworthy vibe. As I said earlier I rarely get this from rural, conservative whites, who generally just see you as another human being.
In terms of in your face racism, it usually happens when people are drunk. Or it's from whites from places like the Bay Area where they see tons of Indians but don't necessarily hang out or live near them. I've heard all kinds of dumb shit. A dude told me I deserved a collar around my neck cause I'm brown, a fat white girl started calling me a subhuman cause I wasn't white, one guy (one of my best friends) kept going on about how he "didn't believe cool Indians existed". Unfortunately that kind of racism is a big part of liberal white culture, it's hidden under the surface but boils up if you get too close to these people or are around them when they're too fucked up. I may have heard politically incorrect shit from conservatives but they always had my back and never had the subtle condescension of a lot of white liberals.
I think the culture of big liberal cities is just toxic and poisonous regardless of race. It just filters down differently depending on what category you fall into.
I also have to say I never felt a disadvantage with ABCD women as an ABCD myself, ever. With the exception of a couple extremely hot super white washed ones (only three or four at most who anyway grew up in super white areas), every Indian girl I've ever met has at least tried going for Indian guys. I haven't encountered this self-hating streak in Indian girls that much at all. At the very most I've met ABCD women who were incredibly racist towards black people, but never towards their own men (even extremely dark-skinned South Indians like me).
Also agree that FOBs must have it hard as fuck in America, but that's also because 99% of them are coders from Andhra Pradesh, of course those guys aren't going to be running around slaying white girls. There are many ethnicities and groups in India that would do fine in the west if they actually made it here. When I visited the Indian state of Ladakh I saw tons of dudes who were badass adventure tour operators, I met a guy who could do backflips in a kayak (like flipping the entire boat through the air while inside of it). Guys like that would have no problem spitting game or finding women in the west, it's just that attractive Indian stereotypes are severely underrepresented owing to the influx of computer fobs.
Agree 100% with this. I was actually shocked at how closed-minded so many in NYC were, and I lived there for a long time. The only minority guys I saw dating these types were those they met through their social circle. In the bars there I literally never saw Indian dudes get anywhere, and I went out very actively to all the nightlife areas several times a week. Thankfully NYC has loads of Europeans and they were my bread and butter during my time there. A few exceptions notwithstanding, I generally didn't get anywhere with American white women. The Puerto Ricans/Dominicanas were also quite open minded there, and I also hooked up with some black girls and a few FOB Asian women.
And yes, I do appreciate that most Indian women will at least give Indian guys a shot. They seem to like their own men moreso than other Asian women, who'll frequently bend over backwards to get with a white guy.
Pussy ain't for pussies...
Quote: (05-17-2018 01:41 PM)jselysianeagle Wrote:
Agree 100% with this. I was actually shocked at how closed-minded so many in NYC were, and I lived there for a long time. The only minority guys I saw dating these types were those they met through their social circle. In the bars there I literally never saw Indian dudes get anywhere, and I went out very actively to all the nightlife areas several times a week. Thankfully NYC has loads of Europeans and they were my bread and butter during my time there. A few exceptions notwithstanding, I generally didn't get anywhere with American white women. The Puerto Ricans/Dominicanas were also quite open minded there, and I also hooked up with some black girls and a few FOB Asian women.
And yes, I do appreciate that most Indian women will at least give Indian guys a shot. They seem to like their own men moreso than other Asian women, who'll frequently bend over backwards to get with a white guy.
Is NYC really close minded like that? I might be moving there so I'm wondering. It's supposed to be super progressive but it's one of the most segregated places. You said many minorities don't get with the girls are the girls mostly racist/hesitant against minorities?
Bastard Sword, that is rough dude! Ya I've heard a lot of bad things about the Bay Area from the few Asian and Indian guys I know who moved away from there, they all seemed to be happy to get out. As a matter of fact, I've heard horrible things about dating in the Bay Area in general so I am sure guys as a whole there are frustrated and naturally cranky. Your experience reminds me of a recent viral video where this woman in Oakland called the cops on a black family having a BBQ and then cried when people recorded her, calling her out on her hypocrisy.
As for NYC, I do get places with white American women there, it is more than doable in my experience simply because the city attracts girls from all across the country not to mention the world. Everyone complains about online dating and how tough it is for minorities but the two girls I met with and smashed off of bumble were both white. You do kinda have to speak their language and be familiar with their world which I think might be an issue for a lot of minorities but if you were born and raised in the US, I don't see it being that big of a problem.
That is the beauty of NYC, you never know if the girl you see at a bar is a local or someone from another part of the country. I am always excited to find out whether that hot girl I am standing next to is from Europe, an Anglo country, NYC or from some other part of the US, makes for a great opener.
But now that you guys mention it, the girls I get with were usually from outside of NYC and the northeast barring a few exceptions. For some reason I do well with girls from Texas, not complaining too much because they got dat booty!
I do get what you guys are saying though, there are subsets of women that minorities would have a tough time with. The socialite and status hungry women who are real weary of how they are perceived can be an issue for a lot of guys out there. Usually these are the kinds of women who pretend to care about social issues out of a sense of looking out for their image but are quite picky about race. It can be real tough to win those status games against these kinds of women who have their own warped image of what a hot guy is.
My mentality and belief is that if you are good, you can get a girl from any demographic out there. The issue is, at least from what I see looking around, not that many Indian guys are actually that game-centered or focused on getting women.
I have a tough time believing just due to the sheer volume of women in the city, the favorable ratios and countless opportunities that a well put together Indian guy cannot get a hot girl of any type.
As for NYC, I do get places with white American women there, it is more than doable in my experience simply because the city attracts girls from all across the country not to mention the world. Everyone complains about online dating and how tough it is for minorities but the two girls I met with and smashed off of bumble were both white. You do kinda have to speak their language and be familiar with their world which I think might be an issue for a lot of minorities but if you were born and raised in the US, I don't see it being that big of a problem.
That is the beauty of NYC, you never know if the girl you see at a bar is a local or someone from another part of the country. I am always excited to find out whether that hot girl I am standing next to is from Europe, an Anglo country, NYC or from some other part of the US, makes for a great opener.
But now that you guys mention it, the girls I get with were usually from outside of NYC and the northeast barring a few exceptions. For some reason I do well with girls from Texas, not complaining too much because they got dat booty!
I do get what you guys are saying though, there are subsets of women that minorities would have a tough time with. The socialite and status hungry women who are real weary of how they are perceived can be an issue for a lot of guys out there. Usually these are the kinds of women who pretend to care about social issues out of a sense of looking out for their image but are quite picky about race. It can be real tough to win those status games against these kinds of women who have their own warped image of what a hot guy is.
My mentality and belief is that if you are good, you can get a girl from any demographic out there. The issue is, at least from what I see looking around, not that many Indian guys are actually that game-centered or focused on getting women.
I have a tough time believing just due to the sheer volume of women in the city, the favorable ratios and countless opportunities that a well put together Indian guy cannot get a hot girl of any type.
The other thing to consider is that a lot of these WASPy, status hungry, "popular" girls are not actually worth your time at all. At best these are sixes who have learned how to dress well, do their makeup, and "appear" sexy. I know there's a lot of focus on notch count on this site, but I REALLY encourage guys to focus on the quality of the human beings they're trying to date or have sex with. Don't hook up with girls who are worthless people, don't give them your time, don't give them your attention. Notches in and of themselves mean a lot less than your basic dignity and self-respect. If a girl thinks I'm "lower status" cause I'm Indian, she can go fuck herself, end of story.
I agree that it's certainly possible to do well for yourself as an Indian guy, I did myself. Four years of gaming as an Indian guy, however, definitely taught me some serious red pills on American culture, liberal white culture, and how we're deluded into believing that sex with neurotic, cutthroat, fundamentally untrustworthy women is something to aspire to. It's a problem with the game community in particular and with American culture in general.
Indians in general seem to have race-related complaints for a couple reasons. The main one is that by and large we're on the same economic footing as well-off liberal white Americans, so we end up living in the same towns, working in the same offices, and going to the same colleges. It's a weird situation where we're economically and academically incredibly successful, but come from a fundamentally different value system and culture from the other people in our economic class. This, at best, makes it difficult to relate to people and creates feelings of isolation. All second-generation immigrants go through this as well IMO, they're just less vocal about it and aren't always in the same economic bracket. I've known Mexicans, Asians, and Nigerians who had the same issues (still got laid but felt disconnected from mainstream white culture). Even the really white-looking Armenians and Palestinians I've known have felt this way as well.
I agree that it's certainly possible to do well for yourself as an Indian guy, I did myself. Four years of gaming as an Indian guy, however, definitely taught me some serious red pills on American culture, liberal white culture, and how we're deluded into believing that sex with neurotic, cutthroat, fundamentally untrustworthy women is something to aspire to. It's a problem with the game community in particular and with American culture in general.
Indians in general seem to have race-related complaints for a couple reasons. The main one is that by and large we're on the same economic footing as well-off liberal white Americans, so we end up living in the same towns, working in the same offices, and going to the same colleges. It's a weird situation where we're economically and academically incredibly successful, but come from a fundamentally different value system and culture from the other people in our economic class. This, at best, makes it difficult to relate to people and creates feelings of isolation. All second-generation immigrants go through this as well IMO, they're just less vocal about it and aren't always in the same economic bracket. I've known Mexicans, Asians, and Nigerians who had the same issues (still got laid but felt disconnected from mainstream white culture). Even the really white-looking Armenians and Palestinians I've known have felt this way as well.
Quote: (05-17-2018 12:53 PM)kaotic Wrote:
I have a ABCD cousin, feminist to the hilt, married a FOB guy - ended up divorcing him.
A few years later got married to some white beta looking cuck dude.
Odds are it won't end well with him either.
Somehow the hot princess types I know also married the beta-est white guys that happen to have baby faces and look a bit curious. Interesting phenomenon indeed.
Good discussion. From my post in another thread:
In Europe, I saw a lot more couples involving white women with men of minority groups than I did in Toronto. I noticed how European women were generally more receptive to associating with, dating and sleeping with non-white guys. I met Asian, Indian, African and Latin American international students in France who had little to no trouble getting laid or dating the local girls. The kinds of girls these guys were getting in Europe, they’d never have a shot at with the local girls Toronto.
What was interesting is that despite the racism that exists in the economic realm in Europe, none of the European guys (or European society in general) seemed to care that much that an Asian, Indian, Black, or Arab guy was dating a white girl.
Now in Toronto, it’s the complete opposite. Dating a good looking white girl while not being white yourself is a much much bigger deal in Toronto than it is in Europe even though minorities have an easier time moving up economically.
Europeans don’t grant you the same opportunities for economic success in their countries, but they are not nearly as hostile if you decide to go for white women in their country. Most just don't care that much.
Further, most Europeans under age 40 speak multiple languages which will by default make them more open minded to different cultures. Most native English speakers only speak English.
My sense is Anglo culture has a bit of a white supremacy syndrome, whereas much of Europe is fairly open minded to outside cultures and people. Not to say that white women in the Anglosphere won't hookup with anyone who's not white, they just don't have that excitement for the "other" that Europeans do.
In Europe, I saw a lot more couples involving white women with men of minority groups than I did in Toronto. I noticed how European women were generally more receptive to associating with, dating and sleeping with non-white guys. I met Asian, Indian, African and Latin American international students in France who had little to no trouble getting laid or dating the local girls. The kinds of girls these guys were getting in Europe, they’d never have a shot at with the local girls Toronto.
What was interesting is that despite the racism that exists in the economic realm in Europe, none of the European guys (or European society in general) seemed to care that much that an Asian, Indian, Black, or Arab guy was dating a white girl.
Now in Toronto, it’s the complete opposite. Dating a good looking white girl while not being white yourself is a much much bigger deal in Toronto than it is in Europe even though minorities have an easier time moving up economically.
Europeans don’t grant you the same opportunities for economic success in their countries, but they are not nearly as hostile if you decide to go for white women in their country. Most just don't care that much.
Further, most Europeans under age 40 speak multiple languages which will by default make them more open minded to different cultures. Most native English speakers only speak English.
My sense is Anglo culture has a bit of a white supremacy syndrome, whereas much of Europe is fairly open minded to outside cultures and people. Not to say that white women in the Anglosphere won't hookup with anyone who's not white, they just don't have that excitement for the "other" that Europeans do.
Quote: (05-17-2018 12:57 AM)Bastard Sword Wrote:
^Good post, I will say liberal whites can definitely be worse about their racism though. Some of the worst racism I’ve ever received has come from liberal whites. The conservative whites I’ve known have by and large been good people, one even stuck up for me against a racist white liberal woman. I’ve gotten racism and shitty vibes from ghetto blacks and latinos but great treatment from middle class minorities. From Indians I’ve more seen intense self hate than anything, also a lot of IRT racism against black people. I personally fare best around educated white conservatives or around a diversity of middle-class minorities, I don’t vibe with liberal whites and try to avoid them when possible. Their liberalism is abstract at best and often hides genuine hatred for minorities, plus their culture is incredibly passive aggressive and treacherous. Just my two cents.
Seriously, white liberal women are by far the most prejudiced women out there, no doubt at all about that. That's been my experience as well and yes they are very passive aggressive about it, they never have the guts to just say it to your face. Good post.
I don't think it is really a racism issue in the US as much as it is a quality issue in a lot of places. The reason it might seem like European guys are more cool with it is because some of those countries just have a lot of slim attractive women in them, the supply and demand either meet or the supply exceeds the demand. I am sure Italian guys would flip out and lose their shit if some minority started gaming their women.
The US is a real big country with a lot of different areas that vary a lot based on culture. You can move from one place to another and it is the equivalent of being in another country.
No matter the race, it comes down to supply and demand, that's really it. I never faced much issues in NYC running game because there were just so many single decent looking women to go around. My friends who lived in San Francisco likely faced a ton of issues, including racism, even though it is such a liberal city, reason being there were too many single guys and not enough single women.
When there is a serious lack of decent looking women, I feel like it just brings out the worst in guys. Guys get more territorial, social circle game becomes prominent, night game is tough due to bars being sausagefests and men in general get a lot more hostile towards each other. It is why San Francisco is such a horrible place for not just brown men but men in general.
Even Eastern Europe, given how racist that area is, is better for minorities trying to get hot girls than San Francisco because there is a surplus of single good looking women.
The US is a real big country with a lot of different areas that vary a lot based on culture. You can move from one place to another and it is the equivalent of being in another country.
No matter the race, it comes down to supply and demand, that's really it. I never faced much issues in NYC running game because there were just so many single decent looking women to go around. My friends who lived in San Francisco likely faced a ton of issues, including racism, even though it is such a liberal city, reason being there were too many single guys and not enough single women.
When there is a serious lack of decent looking women, I feel like it just brings out the worst in guys. Guys get more territorial, social circle game becomes prominent, night game is tough due to bars being sausagefests and men in general get a lot more hostile towards each other. It is why San Francisco is such a horrible place for not just brown men but men in general.
Even Eastern Europe, given how racist that area is, is better for minorities trying to get hot girls than San Francisco because there is a surplus of single good looking women.
The main difference between liberal and conservative whites is one group is more honest about their racism and thus held to a lower moral standard.
Quote: (05-17-2018 10:33 AM)Cobra Wrote:
I got some positive vibes because I just closed a deal. So I thought I would contribute that to the forum in this thread.
I mentioned I was going to make a post about the cultural aspect of things here, as far as how close we are as "Desi" men towards our culture. On one end we need to almost "hide" it to relate to westernized folks. On another end, there are many aspects of it we enjoy that we have a hard time hiding. For example, I like Indian music and no matter what anyone says about Bollywood, I am a fucking fan. 100%, although I do cringe at the over the top shit just the same.
So the question for someone like me, who grew up in India until the age of 12 is different than it is for a guy that was born here or brought up here. I still speak Hindi and Malayalam fluently, speak with Indian guys in those languages when I can, including the FOB types. I can relate to them. Are some of the more uneducated ones cringeworthy, yes. However, are there many that are quality men and women that really bust their ass especially here in the USA, also yes. So for me to propagate or promote the theme that some of my people are less than others, is a joke to me. I'll never do it. While I understand how someone acting like thug or white washed individual is cringeworthy, there are many genuine native Indian people out there. Again, I am still a lot more like them than my white counterparts.
This is not to say that just "acting" westernized makes you disingenuine to your culture. It's not. Forum members doc holliday and kaotic are more westernized than I am. They are both genuine down to earth guys that make our group of men look good.
There used to be a time I used to qualify myself to white girls by acting as westernized as possible. It made me come across as a beta chodemaster and a complete toolbox. Since I realized this, I have grown to communicate my culture in a more nuanced and powerful way without overwhelming the other person. Let's face it, the problem is that when you have an IRT type, he will flaunt his culture in front of you like it's the best thing. It may be, yes, and I believe many aspects of it are; but, the utter disrespect it shows to other cultures is what is cringeworthy and disingenuine. Think about a gay dude walking around and flaunting his sexuality. Same shit.
There is no reason you can't be a good looking desi guy with a good body, good physical presence and good charisma that is also very Indian or Desi. Be proud of who you are and don't let the IRTs dictate what your culture means. Turn it on its head for more business, pussy or social value. It ain't a damn crutch for god's sakes and it can absolutely be done.
Okay, now I feel ALIVE and Indian!!!
I don't think there is an issue at all with acting westernized if you were born or even raised in the US. TBH, when girls ask me where I am from I do say America because I am culturally a lot more American than Indian. For those of us not raised around any Indians, we naturally act more "westernized" and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I genuinely love the US a lot more than India because I've spent my entire life here, nothing personal against India though.
Now when they probe and ask for my race, I tell them Indian and I do it proudly with a smile on my face.
I've worse than what you did though, seen more than enough Indian and Middle Eastern guys lie to women about being Southern European or Latino, have no respect for that shit. Own up to your fucking race and if she doesn't like it, so be it, have some respect. I do not care if it costs me a notch because I told a girl what my race was.
These days, more than enough women out there will go for a well put together brown or Asian guy. Media stereotypes get better every year and I honestly see things getting better as a whole for Asian men of all kinds.
Amazing posts by everyone so far - glad this discussion is bringing solid and valuable information to light. It's also great to hear that others have made quite similar observations as I have.
Don't get me wrong, it's not super closed-minded or anything like that. There's a huge diversity of women and new hotties moving in every single day from all over the globe. If you find that one type doesn't vibe with you, you can always switch it up and try a different variety of girl. You'll never run out of options and places in NYC, that's for sure. It *is* a bit socially segregated and like I said, your "stock" American white girl (if that's what you're goin for) will typically stick to her own, at least from what I observed. Not saying you can't ever get with them, but the guys I saw succeed with that demographic almost always did it through social circle. Your mileage may vary, but good luck!
Yep. Goin off of memory here, among the American girls I hooked up with in NYC were a Jewish chic (native to NYC), one from Wisconsin, another from Ohio, one from Indiana, one from California and another from Indiana. So yeah, mostly not from NYC. Thank God for the Europeans![[Image: icon_razz.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/icon_razz.gif)
It takes time and experience for most guys to get to this understanding. It's easier to accept once you have a sufficient number of notches under your belt and feel satisfied with your sexual history and conquests.
Yes, exactly. One of the common themes you'll notice both here on RvF and offline talking to minority dudes is this exact thing - we all seem to do much better with non-Anglo women. Be they European/EE/Latina/Asian/Black/what-have-you, on the whole these women seem to be more DTF than their Anglo counterparts.
Quote: (05-17-2018 02:05 PM)pargan Wrote:
Is NYC really close minded like that? I might be moving there so I'm wondering. It's supposed to be super progressive but it's one of the most segregated places. You said many minorities don't get with the girls are the girls mostly racist/hesitant against minorities?
Don't get me wrong, it's not super closed-minded or anything like that. There's a huge diversity of women and new hotties moving in every single day from all over the globe. If you find that one type doesn't vibe with you, you can always switch it up and try a different variety of girl. You'll never run out of options and places in NYC, that's for sure. It *is* a bit socially segregated and like I said, your "stock" American white girl (if that's what you're goin for) will typically stick to her own, at least from what I observed. Not saying you can't ever get with them, but the guys I saw succeed with that demographic almost always did it through social circle. Your mileage may vary, but good luck!
Quote: (05-17-2018 02:14 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:
But now that you guys mention it, the girls I get with were usually from outside of NYC and the northeast barring a few exceptions.
Yep. Goin off of memory here, among the American girls I hooked up with in NYC were a Jewish chic (native to NYC), one from Wisconsin, another from Ohio, one from Indiana, one from California and another from Indiana. So yeah, mostly not from NYC. Thank God for the Europeans
Quote: (05-17-2018 02:58 PM)Bastard Sword Wrote:
we're deluded into believing that sex with neurotic, cutthroat, fundamentally untrustworthy women is something to aspire to. It's a problem with the game community in particular and with American culture in general.
It takes time and experience for most guys to get to this understanding. It's easier to accept once you have a sufficient number of notches under your belt and feel satisfied with your sexual history and conquests.
Quote: (05-17-2018 03:57 PM)SLSlayer Wrote:
My sense is Anglo culture has a bit of a white supremacy syndrome, whereas much of Europe is fairly open minded to outside cultures and people. Not to say that white women in the Anglosphere won't hookup with anyone who's not white, they just don't have that excitement for the "other" that Europeans do.
Yes, exactly. One of the common themes you'll notice both here on RvF and offline talking to minority dudes is this exact thing - we all seem to do much better with non-Anglo women. Be they European/EE/Latina/Asian/Black/what-have-you, on the whole these women seem to be more DTF than their Anglo counterparts.
Pussy ain't for pussies...
So help me understand this better, you said that gaming "stock" White American girls is an issue yet you have been with girls from places like Indiana, Wisconsin, California and Ohio.
What exactly do you mean when you say "stock" because to me it really doesn't get more basic than some white girl from a really white state like Wisconsin.
What exactly do you mean when you say "stock" because to me it really doesn't get more basic than some white girl from a really white state like Wisconsin.
I find it pretty funny how many (not all) of people on here are like "race doesn't matter!" - - - and then claim that their successes with Anglo women is to build a social circle with white dudes, act as whitewashed as possible, and basically do/act in ways that are non-Indian.
Ironic
Anyways, in regards to NYC, a place where I have a ton of experience in:
1) Liberal white women will post Facebook statuses all day about "how race is important to them", but, in reality, race relations to a white American girl is referring to empowering blacks (given our past and current history). Other races such as Asians/Indians - they don't give a fuck about because there's no sense of guilt for them for any other race. I'm not complaining here (I completely understand), but that is one reason why in the US liberal white girls don't give Indian dudes the time of the day
2) There are sooooooo many foreign women here. It's amazing. And one of the reasons why I feel like any race can do well with them is because they are still new to the cultural norms, mannerisms, etc. When I step on dates with these foreign women, I automatically feel alpha because they are learning everything from me, there's no sense of judgement, they're still confused on what the social norms are here, and less bullshit hoops. If I make a "mistake" on a date with them, it's not a big deal - I always feel like I'm in charge. Oh yeah, and they're also just a lot more chill in general, which vibes with me.
Ironic
Anyways, in regards to NYC, a place where I have a ton of experience in:
1) Liberal white women will post Facebook statuses all day about "how race is important to them", but, in reality, race relations to a white American girl is referring to empowering blacks (given our past and current history). Other races such as Asians/Indians - they don't give a fuck about because there's no sense of guilt for them for any other race. I'm not complaining here (I completely understand), but that is one reason why in the US liberal white girls don't give Indian dudes the time of the day
2) There are sooooooo many foreign women here. It's amazing. And one of the reasons why I feel like any race can do well with them is because they are still new to the cultural norms, mannerisms, etc. When I step on dates with these foreign women, I automatically feel alpha because they are learning everything from me, there's no sense of judgement, they're still confused on what the social norms are here, and less bullshit hoops. If I make a "mistake" on a date with them, it's not a big deal - I always feel like I'm in charge. Oh yeah, and they're also just a lot more chill in general, which vibes with me.
Quote: (05-18-2018 12:58 AM)a beer is enough Wrote:
So help me understand this better, you said that gaming "stock" White American girls is an issue yet you have been with girls from places like Indiana, Wisconsin, California and Ohio.
What exactly do you mean when you say "stock" because to me it really doesn't get more basic than some white girl from a really white state like Wisconsin.
Let me first off state:
I don't get the pedestalization of this group by so many Indians... show the Latin and African beauties some love! Some of the most gorgeous girls I've seen in my life, I spotted in my travels through the Caribbean and LatAm. And they're way more open minded. Ignore them and it's really your loss!
But on to your question - I was coming at it from an ROI perpsective. As I mentioned before, I was quite active in goin out and approaching women both during the day and when out at bars/clubs. It was with these types of girls that my efforts were least likely to yield results - harsh blowouts or numbers that went nowhere were the norm. In contrast, with just about any other type of woman I was much more likely to get a date/bang. All in all, the bulk of my dates/bangs were *not* from this demographic.
In summary, I think most minority guys will do better with any other demographic of women, for a given amount of time + effort. Hope this clarifies my position. Of course, to each his own - I'm not here to argue, just stating what I experienced and observed during my time in NYC.
Quote: (05-18-2018 01:32 AM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:
I find it pretty funny how many (not all) of people on here are like "race doesn't matter!" - - - and then claim that their successes with Anglo women is to build a social circle with white dudes, act as whitewashed as possible, and basically do/act in ways that are non-Indian.
Ironic
I do think a lot of Indians have this "let's-not-rock-the-boat-too-much" view and would rather try and find fault in themselves or their fellow Indians. And yes, absolutely, there's much to improve and change, and many of the criticisms voiced here are 100% valid. That said, if you peek inside the "black man game" thread or the one for Asian guys, you'll find a much greater acceptance of how race impacts game. I sometimes find the Indian bros here a bit too hasty to jump on the "you're-being-defeatist-by-mentioning-race" bandwagon, which unfortunately stifles
discussion.
"Race matters. Don't kid yourself." - Rudebwoy
Pussy ain't for pussies...
Quote: (05-17-2018 02:14 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:
Bastard Sword, that is rough dude! Ya I've heard a lot of bad things about the Bay Area from the few Asian and Indian guys I know who moved away from there, they all seemed to be happy to get out. As a matter of fact, I've heard horrible things about dating in the Bay Area in general so I am sure guys as a whole there are frustrated and naturally cranky. Your experience reminds me of a recent viral video where this woman in Oakland called the cops on a black family having a BBQ and then cried when people recorded her, calling her out on her hypocrisy.
As for NYC, I do get places with white American women there, it is more than doable in my experience simply because the city attracts girls from all across the country not to mention the world. Everyone complains about online dating and how tough it is for minorities but the two girls I met with and smashed off of bumble were both white. You do kinda have to speak their language and be familiar with their world which I think might be an issue for a lot of minorities but if you were born and raised in the US, I don't see it being that big of a problem.
That is the beauty of NYC, you never know if the girl you see at a bar is a local or someone from another part of the country. I am always excited to find out whether that hot girl I am standing next to is from Europe, an Anglo country, NYC or from some other part of the US, makes for a great opener.
But now that you guys mention it, the girls I get with were usually from outside of NYC and the northeast barring a few exceptions. For some reason I do well with girls from Texas, not complaining too much because they got dat booty!
I do get what you guys are saying though, there are subsets of women that minorities would have a tough time with. The socialite and status hungry women who are real weary of how they are perceived can be an issue for a lot of guys out there. Usually these are the kinds of women who pretend to care about social issues out of a sense of looking out for their image but are quite picky about race. It can be real tough to win those status games against these kinds of women who have their own warped image of what a hot guy is.
My mentality and belief is that if you are good, you can get a girl from any demographic out there. The issue is, at least from what I see looking around, not that many Indian guys are actually that game-centered or focused on getting women.
I have a tough time believing just due to the sheer volume of women in the city, the favorable ratios and countless opportunities that a well put together Indian guy cannot get a hot girl of any type.
In a status-driven town like New York City (well particularly in Manhattan), I believe that an Indian man (I guess I am referring to ABCD's here) can slay almost anything if they have hardcore fame or status (ie. Aziz Ansari, Russell Peters, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Kal Penn, Jay Sean, etc.). But therein lies the problem. I probably named them all. I'm not sure that simply being a doctor, investment banker, consultant, high caliber lawyer or business owner cuts it.
I concur with everyone else here. Do not get hung up on things. You don't need to get with Rebecca who moved into the City from old money suburbs like Greenwich (CT) or Scarsdale or Rye (NY) to validate yourself. You can definitely get laid in NYC or a big city, but embrace the diversity in your targets. Just like they are embracing the diversity in getting to know you. In New York (and all other major metro areas), embrace the abundance mindset.
Quote: (05-18-2018 01:51 AM)jselysianeagle Wrote:
Quote: (05-18-2018 01:32 AM)Crash_Bandicoot Wrote:
I find it pretty funny how many (not all) of people on here are like "race doesn't matter!" - - - and then claim that their successes with Anglo women is to build a social circle with white dudes, act as whitewashed as possible, and basically do/act in ways that are non-Indian.
Ironic
I do think a lot of Indians have this "let's-not-rock-the-boat-too-much" view and would rather try and find fault in themselves or their fellow Indians. And yes, absolutely, there's much to improve and change, and many of the criticisms voiced here are 100% valid. That said, if you peek inside the "black man game" thread or the one for Asian guys, you'll find a much greater acceptance of how race impacts game. I sometimes find the Indian bros here a bit too hasty to jump on the "you're-being-defeatist-by-mentioning-race" bandwagon, which unfortunately stifles
discussion.
"Race matters. Don't kid yourself." - Rudebwoy
This. For certain demographics, race certainly matters, even if on the whole, an Indian guy with solid game can rack up just as many notches as a an equivalent guy of another race.
What I found interesting was that in college there were a good chunk of the liberal white chicks that pursued me, perhaps because I mainly met them through social circle and they knew me on a deeper level. After college, in the real world, it became much harder, primarily since I mainly interacted with them via online and cold approach(mainly in night game) - the type of situation where it was easy for them to quickly reject a guy based on his race before really getting to know him. Then again, social circle is generally the way most people used to meet each other and the best way to access the highest quality women. I've written before about house parties. Give it a try - being introduced to a girl's hot friends as the main guy throwing a party at a nice pad is a gigantic DHV that can often overcome most racial hang ups.
I think we may be giving non-American women too much credit. The reason why foreign women are more open is not because they are less racist per say, but because most of their exposure to Indian culture has been via Bollywood, and not via the toxic Western media that stereotypes Indian guys as creepy H1b betas, in addition to their own experiences interacting with Indian FOBs. As the migrant crisis intensifies in Europe I don't know how much longer this will last. Either way, game on. When a guy is a novelty he will have a game advantage, but once there are more of his countrymen in a given city/country (without a corresponding % increase in the portion of his target population that is open to dating his race), he will see his success go down. I think this is what has happened in the U.S.
What have people's experiences been speaking foreign languages with women they're gaming? Do they respond well when they are approached by an Indian guy that speaks their language? Or, does it take away the Indian guy's "native English speaker dominant frame"?
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