[semibaron]

Dude, the coins mentioned in the OP are mostly PoS (Proof-of-Stake) or ICO coins.
This has nothing to do with printing money...

[Lampwick]

(01-06-2018 09:10 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

Heck, I don't even mind conceding. Monero will become the de-facto currency of drug and human traffickers, mobsters, and whoever else wants to do illicit stuff.

Whooptifuckingdo. So what? How is that going to stop the decline of the West or whatever else you think is ailing the world.

You can think of drug dealers as the bootstrappers of the technology that will provide people greater freedom. Look at PayPal banning Roosh, the abuse of civil forfeiture in the US, oppressive regimes cracking down on dissidents, etc. Totally anonymous money will enable great evil, but it will enable a lot of good too. I completely agree with you about that trade-off in technology. I also think anonymous money is inevitable, it will happen in one form or another.

I also agree with your larger point. Because of its privacy features, Monero can never be the dominant crypto. I doubt it will even be listed on Coinbase, because it most likely doesn't comply with their anti-money-laundering policies for coin listings.

On the other hand though, I think it will be politically difficult to retrofit privacy features onto an existing coin that has already been accepted by the banking establishment (i.e., already listed on Coinbase for example). This is why I think Monero has a solid niche, whereas 99% of the coins out there right now do not. We just have different ideas of how big that niche may be.

And in terms of investment, Monero is around $6.5 billion. Is totally anonymous money worth much more than that? I think so. Will Monero be the standard for such a thing? It looks increasingly likely.

If you look at something like Ethereum, it is really a platform play, and it is currently around $100 billion. Right now, the value of the projects built on top of the Ethereum platform exceed the value of the platform itself. This is to be expected. If you look at Verisign, which owns .com, basically the platform for the Internet, its market cap is $11 billion. The value of all the .com websites built on top of it obviously vastly exceed that. So if you are investing in the Ethereum platform itself, you are betting that the market cap will grow from that $100 billion. I'm not saying it won't, but it is likely that the projects built on top of that platform, and possibly other platforms, will grow at a much faster rate.

[Samseau]

(01-06-2018 09:24 AM)semibaron Wrote:  

Dude, the coins mentioned in the OP are mostly PoS (Proof-of-Stake) or ICO coins.
This has nothing to do with printing money...

These centralized coins may use "proof of stake" but they can still create more coins on the dime whenever needed. There is zero reason to trust any centralized coin.

Quote:

So far, the best argument in favor of Monero I've seen is that it's used by drug dealers. If that's the best you got, long-term Monero won't end up as the next Facebook or Google.

Monero is the freedom coin. Simple as that. Freedom to do great evil, but also great good. Monero has true power because it gives true freedom.

Freedom is the basis of everything great in this world. Freedom has its own extremely high intrinsic value. Even if most people are slaves, the great men will always prefer freedom; and therefore that which can enable them such as Monero.

[SamuelBRoberts]

(01-06-2018 11:47 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

These centralized coins may use "proof of stake" but they can still create more coins on the dime whenever needed. There is zero reason to trust any centralized coin.

Proof of Stake doesn't mean that someone can arbitrarily increase the number of coins.
This is just wrong.

[Samseau]

(01-07-2018 12:39 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(01-06-2018 11:47 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

These centralized coins may use "proof of stake" but they can still create more coins on the dime whenever needed. There is zero reason to trust any centralized coin.

Proof of Stake doesn't mean that someone can arbitrarily increase the number of coins.
This is just wrong.

Do you own their code? Is it open source? Then they can do whatever they want. You're wrong.

[Adonis]

Samseau, what's your thoughts on Verge/XVG?

[SamuelBRoberts]

(01-07-2018 09:44 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(01-07-2018 12:39 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(01-06-2018 11:47 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

These centralized coins may use "proof of stake" but they can still create more coins on the dime whenever needed. There is zero reason to trust any centralized coin.

Proof of Stake doesn't mean that someone can arbitrarily increase the number of coins.
This is just wrong.

Do you own their code? Is it open source? Then they can do whatever they want. You're wrong.

Of course it's open source. All this stuff is open source.
Cardano Github: https://github.com/input-output-hk/cardano-crypto
NEM Github: https://github.com/NemProject

Please stop this.

[Samseau]

(01-07-2018 01:56 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(01-07-2018 09:44 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(01-07-2018 12:39 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(01-06-2018 11:47 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

These centralized coins may use "proof of stake" but they can still create more coins on the dime whenever needed. There is zero reason to trust any centralized coin.

Proof of Stake doesn't mean that someone can arbitrarily increase the number of coins.
This is just wrong.

Do you own their code? Is it open source? Then they can do whatever they want. You're wrong.

Of course it's open source. All this stuff is open source.
Cardano Github: https://github.com/input-output-hk/cardano-crypto
NEM Github: https://github.com/NemProject

Please stop this.

An open-source coin that no one can mine. Please give me a break.

Open source is only meaningful if the coin is minable because a coin's code cannot change unless all the miners implement it. With centralized mining, a small oligarchy of miners can decide to print coins and that's that.

[pants]

How much time have you spent educating yourself about
- PoS vs PoW,
- different governing structures.

Samseau?

Strong opinions require strong knowledge.
PoS / PoW might even deserve its own thread.

[Samseau]

(01-07-2018 11:34 AM)Adonis Wrote:  

Samseau, what's your thoughts on Verge/XVG?

Check the Monero thread. It isn't as good privacy wise as Monero because Tor over Bitcoin tech has vulnerabilities.

[SamuelBRoberts]

(01-09-2018 09:04 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Open source is only meaningful if the coin is minable because a coin's code cannot change unless all the miners implement it. With centralized mining, a small oligarchy of miners can decide to print coins and that's that.

Non-mining coins don't have centralized miners... because they're non-mining.

That's what non-mining means. It means there are no miners.

[Samseau]

(01-09-2018 05:16 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(01-09-2018 09:04 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Open source is only meaningful if the coin is minable because a coin's code cannot change unless all the miners implement it. With centralized mining, a small oligarchy of miners can decide to print coins and that's that.

Non-mining coins don't have centralized miners... because they're non-mining.

That's what non-mining means. It means there are no miners.

Whatever you want to call them, the guys processing the transactions. They make the calls, doesn't matter if it's open source.

[url=https://twitter.com/LachlanCraigie/status/948862891033153536][/url]

A picture speaks 1000 words.

[pants]

You bring up one centralized non mineable coin, therefor all non-minable are centralized?

[Samseau]

(01-09-2018 07:01 PM)pants Wrote:  

You bring up one centralized non mineable coin, therefor all non-minable are centralized?

Almost without exception, yes. Mining seems essential for decentralization.

[Blancpain]

Great thread man. Didn't know you were holding Monero too, I too have 50% of my portfolio in Monero.
Guys lets get back to the reality, a great deal of people who use crypto in their everyday life are using it for shady shit, like buying drugs and fake ids from the deepweb.
I regularly follow the deepweb to have a look which coins the vendors accept. All early adopters of Bitcoin were deepweb customers and vendors, now most of them are accepting monero and zcash because Bitcoins transaction times and costs have skyrocketed.

Ripple is a joke in my opinion, I'm not going to use the word Jew or anything but lets get real, if you want to know which coins the bankers cant control have a look at the deepweb.

For me to invest in something it should bring value to the table, and for cryptos that is to able to use it in everyday life.

Like today all cryptos are red, but im confident in my holdings, why? Because I can use it in everyday life.

HODL ZCASH,BTC,Monero

Cheers.

[Samseau]