[Pancho]

(01-13-2018 06:52 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 05:39 PM)Pancho Wrote:  

The only type of people in the history of the US who has ever done this type of backbreaking work has been African Slaves and Mexican illegals. There's no work-ethic among the native born Americans in regards to this type of work. I seriously doubt that if you raise the hourly rate to 15 bucks an hour for strawberry and watermelon picking Americans will automatically leave their cities into the countryside to do this type of work.

Before illegal immigration from Mexico following 1960s, there was no agriculture in USA. Want to buy a watermelon? You're shit out of luck.

It's also worth mentioning that at that time there were no restaurants either. If you wanted to eat out at a nice place, you'd better have been prepared to wash the dishes yourself.

There were also no luggage handlers, postmen or maids. Born in an era before Mexican illegals? Better get your own mail because sure as hell no red-blooded American will bring it to you!

Finally, my grandpa who worked for the UN traveled to US on a few occasions after WW2 and I remember him describing how interesting it was that the elevator in his hotel was manually pulled up by black slaves turning cranks.
Their balls-and-chains were tied to the elevator cables, so if one of them stopped pulling the others would get pulled into the grotto and crushed. A gruesome system, but absolutely necessary since without Mexican illegals there was no one to do it.

Most people don't know this.

Not sure if being sarcastic or not but you're actually making my point.

This is where I'm trying to get at.

Service type jobs are probably the most underrated and underappreciated jobs in the history of the U.S.

Before 1960 who did these types of jobs you say? Its easy, poor African Americans from the time of 1860 up until 1960 during reconstruction, Jim Crow and Black codes. African American women were maids, housekeepers, and men were Butlers, servers, dishwashers and usually got paid shit and under the table, but because of the racist tendencies of that time, they got paid under the table and paid like shit.

From the 1940s up until the 1960s. Mexican nationals were working the farms under the Bracero program got paid something like 30 cents an hour.

This country got rich off the backs, sweat and tears of African slaves and their immediate descendants and Illegal Mexican laborers. Americans really love their slave and cheap labor. Its as American as Apple Pie and it hasn't change one bit today.

Comedian Paul Mooney said it best. "Mexicans worked for a quarter, but Blacks worked for free."

Most people overlook this part of our history, but its a very important one. Someone had to do these jobs, it just so happens that the poorest of poorest on the socioeconomic ladder are always stuck with the burden of doing them.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:

Finally, my grandpa who worked for the UN traveled to US on a few occasions after WW2 and I remember him describing how interesting it was that the elevator in his hotel was manually pulled up by black slaves turning cranks.
Their balls-and-chains were tied to the elevator cables, so if one of them stopped pulling the others would get pulled into the grotto and crushed. A gruesome system, but absolutely necessary since without Mexican illegals there was no one to do it.

Pancho Wrote:

Not sure if being sarcastic or not

On a more serious note, are you really claiming that there haven't been any poor white people in USA, ever?

[Raylan Givens]

"No white people have ever been poor or done manual labor."
Good parody bro.

[worldwidetraveler]

(01-12-2018 07:34 PM)bgbusiness Wrote:  

Deporting almost a million people? Do you know what the fuck that would do to the economy?
Current population of US = 300mil+. In general working class is 30~35% of the entire population.

I'd appreciate a link to these stats. It seems awfully low when everything I read states around 40% of Americans are not working.

Quote:

That means that around 100mil is working class for US. Almost 1% of THAT group vanishing will HURT the economy. All you guys think that it will help YOUR life better because less competition?

Surely 100% of all DACA people are not working. Why are these small selection of people working 100% while you say only 30 - 35% of all Americans are working? Are they all geniuses that went to top business schools and studied business and marketing?

[YossariansRight]

The Kennedy family are the most destructive force ever unleashed on this country and that includes the Civil War.

I hope they’re burning in the extra hot section of Hell.

And the cunt of the litter is the one that delivered the deadliest blow:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/...ation-law/

[Seth_Rose]

Pancho, you completely missed his sarcasm. Of course there were fruits and vegetables being picked before Mexicans! White people got paid a decent wage then and were willing to do these jobs. Mexicans came along and took over these jobs picking produce, which drove down wages, driving whites away.

Moreover, America didn't get rich off of laborers working for low wages. For example, prior to the Civil War the south's economy was lagging behind the north. The south had become reliant on unskilled slave labor picking cotton, when the north was booming ahead in industry. See the following:

Quote:

John Elliott Cairnes, an economist, reckoned that slavery stifled economic growth in the South. Cairnes argued that reluctant workers depleted soils more quickly. In addition, scientific agriculture was impossible. Reluctant slaves, with little interest in learning, had no interest in using new farming techniques. And this meant that Southern farms lost competitiveness to their Northern counterparts.

Others reckon that slavery made it difficult for the South to establish trading networks. According to Ralph Anderson and Robert Gallman, slavery forced planters to diversify their economic activities. The costs of owning a slave—such as food and shelter—were pretty constant. And so if plantations specialised in a certain crop, they left themselves open to sudden drops in income and consequently big losses. But by pursuing a range of economic activities, they had a steadier revenue flow to match their fixed costs.

Diversification posed problems. Messrs Anderson and Gallman argue that it inhibited trade within the South—and, consequently, the development of towns and villages. Slaveowners found it easier to produce something themselves, rather than buy it. And the South found it difficult to develop a manufacturing industry—instead, it depended on imports from the North. As a result, economic growth was stifled.

Slavery hindered the development of Southern capitalism in other ways. Eugene Genovese, writing in 1961, reckoned that the antebellum South was not profit-seeking. In fact, slavery was not even meant to be profitable. Slaveowners were keener on flaunting their vast plantations and huge reserves of slaves than they were about profits and investment. Rational economic decisions were sacrificed for pomp and circumstance.

Economies which used slavery may, in the long run, have been at a disadvantage. Some analyses suggest that the economic contradictions of slavery led to its inevitable demise. But slavery had indirect effects on other economies. Douglass North, a Nobel-Prize-winning economist, argued that the expansion of Southern plantation slavery was at the centre of midwestern economic development in the nineteenth century (though the South's demand for certain foodstuffs).

https://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexch...-history-2

[Neo]

BGbiz has an superiority complex and lack of social awareness that comes out very clearly in his posts.

He writes like someone who thinks they have a lot of knowledge, but in reality has scant real world experience in the subject they're writing about. Unmistakable, seen it several times.

Typical talking points of a college student who's read a few articles and thinks he's now an 'expert.'

BG, you're clearly anti-American and think we're lazy so why are you even posting in this thread?

And for the record my family is FOB, legally of course. I'm VERY grateful for the opportunities I've been given here as I'd probably be shoveling horse shit if they didn't decide to come here.

The United States of America welcomed my family, not the other way around.

It's funny how quickly people forget that point and start shitting on the people and the country that gave them a life. It's completely disrespectful.

[MMX2010]

[url=https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/952183458922672130][/url]

[Cobra]

I think doc holliday shut down the "most Indians are IRTs, so we don't want them" argument swiftly so I won't go there.

I've always agreed that white Americans get the short end of the stick these days. That's no secret. However what doc was illustrating was that white guys did it to their own race. So now that things are going haywire, you can't try to either blame immigration or adjust immigration to fix it. Why? Because that wasn't the root of the problem in the first place.

I know some of you guys don't want to hear it but that's why Leonard's post I quoted below is very underappreciated and solid.

(01-12-2018 09:48 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(01-11-2018 09:50 PM)Arado Wrote:  

The above debate clearly demonstrates the split between ethno-nationalists and civic nationalists. Whether civic nationalism is enough to keep a nation together is the key question - can people of varying ethnicities eventually integrate into a single culture or do they split up into their heritage groups and/or continue to retain characteristics from their heritage country, simply due to human nature?

Why would they, when half of all Westerners and virtually all of the news media perpetually portray national pride as racism and bigotry?

Exactly. What minority wouldn't gravitate toward their own tribe after seeing this.

(01-12-2018 09:48 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Whites, despite still being a majority, are falling back to the bulwark of ethnocentrism as a pure survival mechanism at this point.

Agree 100%. Part of this survival mechanism is blaming things like immigration when that's not the primary cause or solution to the problem. Sure, immigration has its issues but this country has deeper cultural issues that white ethnocentrists need to address without becoming nazis.

(01-12-2018 09:48 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

No sane minority is going to look at the future and think "what I really need to do is attempt to dissolve my tribal bonds".

Again, very impactful point that I can bet many missed. When I moved here as a brown kid in 1990, I felt like I had to somewhat dissolve my tribal bonds. I was forced to assimilate. It was hard, people were racist etc. However, today I realize how good that turned out for me. Why? Because I became American. If I were to immigrate today instead as a 12 year old kid, I would not have the same cultural forces mold me. Instead, I would have soy boy culture, fake lumberjacks, faggotry and "tolerance" shoved in my face, all of which will cause no relevant assimilation to the American culture.

Immigration is necessary, beneficial or both, NOT for picking strawberries (of course let the American high school kid do that) but for essential skills OR from countries and backgrounds that suggest high success rates. As long as this is not clearly distinguished in the immigration debate space, there will be more ethnocentrists that scream muh immigrants.

My mom and dad came from India with minimal skills but a proven middle class background. They worked 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs and raised me and my sister to be very succesful. They also turned a lot of their conservative values to me which I now promote in the manosphere.

My point: We need to identify discrete challenges within the current debate such as cultural degeneracy, moral degeneracy, as well as the effects of immigration and their relevance. Furthermore, immigration needs to further be understood so we know what's necessary, what's succesful and what has failed. These discrete components often get overshadowed by the survivalist frustrations of white ethnocentrists.

[Latinopan]

(01-12-2018 01:14 PM)Pancho Wrote:  

I don't know why you're are all against immigrants. What Americans don't realize is that we need these Mexican immigrants. Who is going to pick our strawberries?

I find it funny how the only way people like you see those people is as crop/fruit picking workers, let me guess, you and people around you, friend family, don't have jobs where you and them can be replaced by illegals? you are the type of people that and to flood the country with a low class poor people that allow people like you to virtue signal while buying at Whole Food.

Let me show you something:

That guys is wearing casual clothes and is sitting on a chair. Corporation can easily do this, with the number of homelessness and the number of veterans without jobs, we have enough people willing to work.

Let me tell you another problem. Mexicans get pay in cash, tax free, they send billion every year to Mexico which is why the Mexican government promotes its citizen to enter the USA illegally. The difference is when citizens in the USA do the work the money stay in the USA and Americans have more money. But when that money is taken out of the economy you are left with a net loss.

[iop890]

Well as long as strawberries stay cheap I guess I don't mind being demographically replaced by people who will continuously vote for bigger government.

[Latinopan]

(01-13-2018 06:50 PM)iop890 Wrote:  

Well as long as strawberries stay cheap I guess I don't mind being demographically replaced by people who will continuously vote for bigger government.

One of the arguments against bringing manufacturer back into the USA is that then product will be too expensive, like the Iphone and others smartphones are not already hitting $ 1,000 in price tag.

[budoslavic]

[/url]

[url=https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/952530515894169601]

[Leonard D Neubache]

(01-13-2018 06:07 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

...
My point: We need to identify discrete challenges within the current debate such as cultural degeneracy, moral degeneracy, as well as the effects of immigration and their relevance. Furthermore, immigration needs to further be understood so we know what's necessary, what's succesful and what has failed. These discrete components often get overshadowed by the survivalist frustrations of white ethnocentrists.

I suppose it comes down to what level of faith you have in your nation to be adult and rational enough to have these discussions.

You make your points well as do many other members of the forum. Who outside this place will listen? Beyond that, who will compromise their lifestyle to effect that change?

Sadly it's becoming increasingly clear that Westerners from white to brown to black are either innately so dumb or have been dumbed down enough that they are no longer capable of higher rational thought.

People like us are intellectual outliers. I've avoided that conclusion for the better part of a decade because prior to that I tried very hard to put down my ego-centric intellectualism by convincing myself that there was nothing special about me or my brain. "I am like everyone else, and for that reason I need to get over myself. Teenager, meet adult."

The reality is dawning, however. My local butcher, baker, mechanic, postie, bartender, service station attendant, farmers, loggers, teachers, truckers, electricians, plumbers, lifeguards, and council workers? All of this stuff would go right over their head. It would roll off them like water across a duck's back.

Their entire world boils down to "getting along" and when that seems untenable THEN they get skittish and seek to raise the drawbridge. Deeper questions are not found. Nuance is disregarded. And politicians, eternal shysters that they are, are quite smart not to bother with those deeper questions. It's pointless.

After nearly 40 years on this planet I'm finally coming to accept that the vast majority of people are just dumb animals who need to be herded in a suitable direction. Freedom does not liberate them. History does not teach them. Danger does not warn them. Wealth does not satisfy them nor does poverty humble them. And fools like we waste incalculable hours pondering all of the above in the misguided belief that we can birth some kind of incredible guiding lamp of truth and beauty that the common man will flock to like moths drawn to the flame.

If you could circumvent the impossibility of selling these ideas democratically and were crowned king of America before immediately setting about making the hard decisions to get your nation back on track you would be despised, and even if under your tyranny things became better in the long-run, they would sink back into degradation the moment you abdicated your throne.

So, yes. The whites are getting triggered into ethnocentrism the way blacks would or browns would or yellows would or dogs would if their territory and food sources were being seriously compromised. Because all of the above are dumb animals who will predictably pass over every opportunity to right the ship before slaughtering each other at the last second over who gets a spot on the life-raft.

[YossariansRight]

   

[CynicalContrarian]

Anyone willing to give this gal a contract with Warner Bros?

[url=https://twitter.com/OliverMcGee/status/954370868515401729][/url]

[Pancho]

(01-10-2018 01:29 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

What's so bad about highly skilled immigrants going back to their countries? The places they are from usually need them much more than the US does. Skilled immigration policies a la Canada and Australia are actually leaving the 2nd and 3rd world worse off than they were before, because of all the brain drain.

Wait! So according to this video. Mexicans in Mexico on average are better off than 5.6 Billion people in the world.

I thought Mexico was a shithole? Mexico is a pretty rich country then.

I've been lied to all along.

[Alsos]

Quote:

Pancho: This country got rich off the backs, sweat and tears of African slaves and their immediate descendants and Illegal Mexican laborers.

Over the holidays, I binge-watched a History Channel miniseries "The Men Who Built America".

America is as wealthy as it is not because of the unskilled labor of black slaves or Mexican fruit pickers. It's because of a handful of geniuses. America in 1865, after the abolition of slavery, was nowhere near as prosperous or developed as America in 1895 - due to the creation of the oil and steel industries essentially from nothing, the maturation and expansion of the railroads, the communications and electrification revolutions, etc. Innovations none of which were brought about by poor blacks and Mexicans, and developments none of which depended on poor blacks and Mexicans.

This petty, resentful myth that all of America's wealth is built on slavery needs to die.

[Thomas Jackson]

(01-21-2018 12:08 AM)Alsos Wrote:  

Quote:

Pancho: This country got rich off the backs, sweat and tears of African slaves and their immediate descendants and Illegal Mexican laborers.

Over the holidays, I binge-watched a History Channel miniseries "The Men Who Built America".

America is as wealthy as it is not because of the unskilled labor of black slaves or Mexican fruit pickers. It's because of a handful of geniuses. America in 1865, after the abolition of slavery, was nowhere near as prosperous or developed as America in 1895 - due to the creation of the oil and steel industries essentially from nothing, the maturation and expansion of the railroads, the communications and electrification revolutions, etc. Innovations none of which were brought about by poor blacks and Mexicans, and developments none of which depended on poor blacks and Mexicans.

This petty, resentful myth that all of America's wealth is built on slavery needs to die.

Slavery has existed for thousands of years (and still does in some places) and hasn't led to meaningful development in most cases. Claiming unskilled labor created America is laughably stupid.

[Duke Castile]

(01-20-2018 11:50 PM)Pancho Wrote:  

(01-10-2018 01:29 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

What's so bad about highly skilled immigrants going back to their countries? The places they are from usually need them much more than the US does. Skilled immigration policies a la Canada and Australia are actually leaving the 2nd and 3rd world worse off than they were before, because of all the brain drain.

Wait! So according to this video. Mexicans in Mexico on average are better off than 5.6 Billion people in the world.

I thought Mexico was a shithole? Mexico is a pretty rich country then.

I've been lied to all along.

I’m sure you think you are making some sort of relevent point but the deeper more important one is that there are actually some very nice areas of Mexico, mainly because NAFTA ( Bill Clinton) gutted US production and incentivized companies to start building factories in Mexico. When you add the 100s of billions in drug money that flows out of the economy every year plus the remittances sent by Mexican peasants even Mexico can prosper to some degree.

What this actually means through the lens of America first is that NAFTA must be renegotiated and all the shitty illegals should be sent back (you shouldn’t have an issue with that since Mexico is not a shithole)

Finally the wall needs to be built (and you WILL be paying for it) to form a barrier that impedes the drugs poisoning out people and the coyotes bringing in low quality people that shit out more anchor babies who then create more parasites that chain migrate even more shitty people who eventually vite.

[godzilla]

The restaurants always complains they can't find Americans to do the work. BS if you ask me. When's the last time you've seen a restaurant with a help wanted on the door. It was really common when I was a kid.

By the way, I found some non-mexicans to pick strawberries. I'm positive these people would take $15 an hour.

That a link for the teenage labor participation rate. Which hit all-time lows recently

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300012

I would have been excited as fuck to work for $15 an hour as kid.

It's on the parents too. Parents haven't pushed kids into working at a young age anymore.

[Thomas Jackson]

It's clearly bullshit. I was recently in East Tennessee, an area with minimal "diversity". Guess what - the hotel maids were white ladies, the people serving breakfast at the hotel were also white ladies. Some of the most genuinely friendliest people. Refreshing to say the least.

[iop890]

(01-21-2018 11:44 AM)godzilla Wrote:  

I would have been excited as fuck to work for $15 an hour as kid.

I know of plenty of people back in my home town in their 20s who would be thrilled to make $15/hr now. That's decent money in cheap areas.

[godzilla]

Amazon recently hired a bunch of people in New Jersey at a warehouse for $13.50 an hour.

I applied hoping to some extra money at night. Let me tell you. There were no shortage of applicants. I even went to the first day orientation to find out they had hired too many people already for the time slot I wanted and my application was withdrawn in their system.

But right we illegals to do work. Even if you subscribe to the fact that american don't want to do these jobs. Theyre are still plenty of legal immigrants who are available to take them

[CynicalContrarian]

[url=https://twitter.com/redpillwarden/status/955153361480966144][/url]