[Cane Toad]

Since I started reading RVF I have been interested to read about the many challenges that many men have finding decent women. I sure have the same challenges!

So, I thought I’d break it down in an analytical way…to try and figure out why it so challenging.

This analysis can be considered a supply side analysis (the availability of quality women) rather than a demand side analysis (quality women being snapped up by rich/famous/sports star dudes etc).

***This may have already been done before…so post “dupe” as required.

Here it goes.

1.In most female population samples there will be about 30% in a suitable age range…say 20-35.
2.Of the 30% of suitably aged females, approx 40% would be ranked as 6 or above (my minimum standard, but yours may be different). So the target range is now 30% x 40% = 12%
3.Of the remaining 12%, approx 30% will be married or in a committed relationship and will be unavailable…so that leaves 12% x (1-30%) = 8.4%
4.Of the remaining 8.4%, approx 10% (conservative estimate) will have a mental health problem…so that leaves 8.4% x (1-10%) = 7.6%
5.Of the remaining 7.6%, approx 10% (conservative estimate) will have serious debt problems…so that leaves 7.6% x (1-10%) = 6.8%
6.Of the remaining 6.8%, approx 5% will be gay – leaving us with 6.5%
7.Approx 5% of the 6.5% will have worked in the sex industry – leaving us with 6.2%
8.Then there are a range of other factors such as heavy tattooing, social media addiction, low IQ, just being a shitty person etc that will knock out another 10% - leaving approx 5.6%

So we are left with about 5% of women that would offer a reasonably attractive, healthy and adjusted option.

The 5% figure drops fast when a more probable percentage of mental health, serious debt and worked in the sex industry is factored in.

Now if we add the demand side factor, we can see that the majority of men out there are competing for about 5% (or less) of the women.

The top 5% of men will corner the market ie; that 5% of women will be made doubly more difficult to date because they have the top 5% of available men at call.

That’s why it seems so difficult. It’s about shortage of supply and excess of demand.

The good news is that if you are finding it difficult – it’s not all about you. You just have to accept that it’s an ultra competitive market.

Play to win...and that’s why I like this forum…this forum can teach you how to win. It’s already helped me a great deal.

So I guess the questions are:

- is the supply side (the number of decent women out there) really the problem?

- and if it's not about supply - what else is making it so damn hard lately?

Or have I just not realised that shitty women are the new black.

[Vladimir Poontang]

You could argue that because feminism has produced so many sluts, it results in men aspiring to get those sluts. And that's why I don't think most men are competing for the decent girls, because the potential for easy sex is in abundance. I think the number of men going for decent girls is a minority. Less so than the number of decent girls, but still a minority. So overall, I think it's an issue of supply.

[GlobalMan]

I can string together various statistics and multiply and divide them in a way which will surely lead you to conclude that you should just kill yourself.

These mathematical conclusions serve no useful purpose with regard to living your life day to day, soaking in the beauty and comedy and hard work that fills the hours, weeks and years.

I don't know where you live but where I am I encounter and have the desire to investigate the assholes - and perhaps the hearts (we'll see) - of dozens of girls everyday. Maybe they suck at something and will fall victim to stage 4 or 6 or 7 of your algorithm, but I will keep going because I want to find out!

[Cane Toad]

(12-13-2017 06:10 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

These mathematical conclusions serve no useful purpose

With respect, I disagree.

The purpose of the model is to help explain why it is currently so difficult, despite all the other inputs that would suggest it should be easier.

All I am saying is that guys shouldn't get too down on themselves...and here is a model that shows how tough it is.

And yes, I can make a mathematical model give any result I want (and it sounds like you can too).

However...I do your like your alternative take on this.

Beauty in imperfection.

[xxx]

Agreed. But aren't guys that know how to talk to women also very rare?

Over the past two years I've had 10 women chase me, even if I displayed no interest whatsoever. It was painful to see them try because I was purposely indifferent and yet they kept trying for half a year. The oldest one was a 29 year old cougar and she was pretty desperate.

I just don't see those numbers as a bad thing. Plenty of guys look like shit, are fat, retarded, criminals, betas etc. The game's pussy is wide open, ready to get fucked.

We are the 1%.

[Mojambo]

I know someone that agrees with your math.

[XXL]

Specific numbers are innacurate cause who really knows the exact specifics however the gist of it is correct.

To me it's all about the envoironment a person grows up with and people they are surround themselves with. 50 years back people social interactions were different as well as dating market.

[Hypno]

So this is the sort of self-limiting belief that pisses me off. Your logic is fine if you want to dwell on the fact that a glass is half empty. How about dwelling on some other truths.

You only can be with one or two women out of any population at a time realistically. So if you go to china and hook up, that one girl is .0000001% of the total population. Who cares, you hooked up.

Also, all of your math applies to your competition. Only half of any population is male, not married, not gay, the right age, etc. A tiny fraction of what is left has the balls to approach, knows anything at all about game, has any confidence or inner game, etc. Any small steps you make to any of these puts you miles ahead of your competition.

Think about it. Before you took the red pill, how many approaches did you make in a week? Probably two thirds of your competition makes 5 or less in a week, and probably 95% of your competition makes 10 approaches or less. If you make just 3 approaches a day that is 20 a week, and gives you at least 400% more successes than your competition.

Stop making excuses and start taking action. There is an abundance of women out there. Other guys are getting them despite all these percentages. Ultimately these 7s, 8s, and 9s are having sex with men, the questions is will it be you or your competition.

It reminds me of the corny old joke where there are two campers in a tent who come upon a bear. One of the campers starts to run away and the other puts on his running shoes. The first camper says, why are you putting on your running shoes, you can't out run a bear. The second camper responds, I don't have to outrun the bear, I only have to outrun you.

[PapayaTapper]

OP Assuming your 5% is correct (and that's a big assumption) according to US Census figures that leaves roughly 9,000,000 "decent" women in the US alone.

This isn't a case of a "glass half full or empty" if youre just trying to find enough to drink. That's more water than any of of us could ever swim across.

But taking advantage of opportunities starts with a positive mindset. That's one that assumes success...not failure

[Steelex]

I think the problem here is that you're looking for something that doesn't exist.

Hot as hell, not a whore, high sex drive,

Has a good career and is money concious, isn't so career oriented that doesn't have time to be at your beck and call.

Goes to the gym, has a squat booty, doesn't post booty pics on Instagram.

Is family oriented, isn't wedged up her family's ass.

Most of the guys in LTR's compromised on several issues to get the things that were essential to them in a woman. People only come in so many flavours. If you like chocolate that's cool, just don't expect chocolate to
ALSO be vanilla.

[RatInTheWoods]

3.Of the remaining 12%, approx 30% will be married or in a committed relationship and will be unavailable…so that leaves 12% x (1-30%) = 8.4%


I dispute that, I think somewhere between 50-80% of women have a husband, boyfriend etc.

Not that it would stop them banging the right (top 3% guy) however....

[goldmine]

I think that only 5% of American women are even marriage material.

[questor70]

"Getting lucky" is a figure of speech for a reason.

If you look at other aspects of success, like moving up the job ladder, the odds are equally terrible, but you increase your odds through persistence and building up relevant skills.



The reason the "beautiful people" are resented is because, in the realm of dating, they coast ahead in a straight line. Same deal with trust-fund babies born with silver spoons in their mouths. Most of us are not born with those kinds of advantages and have to work hard to get what we want.

Everything winds up being a tradeoff. The worse the odds, the more time and effort required to convert, the more you need to sacrifice other things in your life to achieve it, like the proverbial asian violin-player who is playing before the symphony by age 12 who had to live like VEAL to be able to skill-up that fast.

You just have to ask yourself how much you value the goal in question because it's a hell of a lot simpler to just be done with it and wank to youporn.

[EndsExpect]

(12-13-2017 05:53 PM)questor70 Wrote:  

The reason the "beautiful people" are resented is because, in the realm of dating, they coast ahead in a straight line. Same deal with trust-fund babies born with silver spoons in their mouths. Most of us are not born with those kinds of advantages and have to work hard to get what we want.
Everything winds up being a tradeoff. The worse the odds, the more time and effort required to convert, the more you need to sacrifice other things in your life to achieve it, like the proverbial asian violin-player who is playing before the symphony by age 12 who had to live like VEAL to be able to skill-up that fast.
You just have to ask yourself how much you value the goal in question because it's a hell of a lot simpler to just be done with it and wank to youporn.

How hard is it to be good looking? I mean if you stay fit you are like most of the way there. Under the age of 40 something like 75% of the women have the ability to be attractive, just stay slim and wear makeup. How fucking hard is that?

It's harder as men, because not everybody can have 6 pack abs without steroids. Also guys get judged based on personality, and social standing... so it takes much more work to be attractive.

But seriously, I don't think reducing the number of fat chicks would change the dating market much. The problem with the west is that men have been replaced by government. I mean fat ugly chicks are still holding out for rich handsome princes, when they should be out there reducing beta thirst like a fire hose on a burning house. If they all magically lost weight... they would go even MORE delusional and fight even harder for the top 20% of men!

[DonnyGately]

You wouldn't fuck a hot chick....because she's in debt???

NotSureIfSrs.jpg

[Suits]

(12-13-2017 07:18 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  

You wouldn't fuck a hot chick....because she's in debt???

NotSureIfSrs.jpg

OP isn't talking about finding a girl just to fuck.

[Cane Toad]

(12-13-2017 05:31 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

I dispute that, I think somewhere between 50-80% of women have a husband, boyfriend etc.

Yes, I agree. But if I used those figures then the end result is like 2% or less.

So anyway, this model is just really for entertainment value...not to be taken too seriously. Sort of like comparing IRR (oh no, it's only 5%) to NPV (as PappayaTapper said there are "statistically" 9,000,000 decent women out there)

I was interested in some other comments that suggested that compromise was required. Sure, I'm happy to bang hot women - no matter what (who isn't?). However, I'm well past banging chics just because I can.

I'm playing the quality game these days. And quality is very hard to find.

[DonnyGately]

(12-13-2017 09:32 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(12-13-2017 07:18 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  

You wouldn't fuck a hot chick....because she's in debt???

NotSureIfSrs.jpg

OP isn't talking about finding a girl just to fuck.

No decent women have debt 'issues'? Doctors, engineers, pilots, CPAs, etc?
StillNotSureIfSrs.jpg

OP sounds exactly like typical excuse for not being able to find a suitable girl. As others have noted.

[realologist]

It's all an excuse. If you date enough, you will find some good girls. Period. If you date enough, you'll learn how to deal with women so you can handle a good one so she doesn't end up bad. Go out and date. Don't hide behind numbers. Action over autism.

[spydersuit]

You need to put yourself in a position where high quality girls approach you. Your model opperates on the assumption that you must find them (needle in the haystack). The reality, as you point out yourslelf, is that top quality women are hunting for high quality men too. You need to think about this in terms of network theory with a probablistic mixed model. If you are a highly central node, where women can easily find you, and you are high a quality man, then its shooting fish in a barrel. You are searching for each other. There is a large number of female 8s and higher that have bitched to me about the men they meet and their stories are hilarious. This conversation usually occurs after meeting and hanging out with my wife and I. More often than not immediately before or after the bang.

[spydersuit]

Forgot to add: I also like how you analyze the problem. However, the math here doesn’t matter. You should be wasting your brain power on improving how women perceive your quality, and how to increase your contact rate with women in general. Nothing is better than average girls selling you to her friends. That shit spreads like a Bell Aire wildfire.

[meetjoeblack]

The reason is obvious. Women can be shitty human beings and crater their SMV skiing down cawk mountain running through the bad boys. Some cuck with really low test will raise her bastard children and marry her. She will then unleash the dogs of the state to extract resources before jumping back on the dong via online dating.

Its about acquiring TOP FORM SMV (sexual market value) age: 18-23 or GTFO!

[giama]

i like the analysis. Its about right. My mind thinks like that also

When you also put another filter such as 7 out of 10 instead of a 6, im sure that figure hits about 2% or so.

Your maths are what i have observed here in London.

something questor wrote which stands out "The worse the odds, the more time and effort required to convert, the more you need to sacrifice other things in your life to achieve it" This is very true, a guy 7 in a female friendly environment such as London will on average get a 6. If he wants to get a 7 or 8 he will have to do a lot of stuff to win her over and maintain her due to supply and demand. This may takeaway from his making money ability.

My whole philosophy is just having a plethora of options of 8s i can smash at will, without it creating a headache or too much of my time, and them also being submissive as well. Oh thats another filter SUBMISSIVE thats a filter i like in a woman im somewhat interested in. i think we are at 0.5% now.

i get enough genuine 6.5s to keep me occupied when im in anglosphere, as anglosphere is where i am making my money, but poosy paradises are where i actually live the life i want to live, smashing the level of women i want at will.

In order to smash 8s at will with zero stress in anglosphere there is 3 ways i see,
Natural method- Good looking (8+), great physical presence, alpha male energy, (dont have to be all) doesnt seem to need to rely on gym to get 8s.
Put in the work method- had to work to get great physical presence, work on fashion etc. Had to treat gym like a job, when in gym they can get 7s, but when they fall off gym even 6s can turn flaky, most guys would fall in this category i imagine.
Entrepreneur method- work on a business and assets so your making £250k a year income, and have a harem(around 3) 8s.

Some people will say the methods are extreme but if your not excelling in one of those areas then getting a GENUINE 8 in anglosphere is very difficult, the numbers are certainly stacked against you in London. Just my 2 pennies

[Chiosboy90]

(12-13-2017 08:03 AM)xxx Wrote:  

Agreed. But aren't guys that know how to talk to women also very rare?

Over the past two years I've had 10 women chase me, even if I displayed no interest whatsoever. It was painful to see them try because I was purposely indifferent and yet they kept trying for half a year. The oldest one was a 29 year old cougar and she was pretty desperate.

I just don't see those numbers as a bad thing. Plenty of guys look like shit, are fat, retarded, criminals, betas etc. The game's pussy is wide open, ready to get fucked.

We are the 1%.

It's beyond me why you don't get any likes lol. This is so true. I can just speak for my country, but the men that can approach women, be okay-confident with it, use a pre-frame if needed and ask for a number in daylight is about 1-2 percent.
Nightclub a man that approaches without a beer in his hands and (maybe 1 beer or none into) straight approach
(not waiting 30min and arguing with themselves) is about 5-10 percent.

[meetjoeblack]

A single mom was raging about men either being players or being betas with no spine. She is a single mom 30+ with multiple kids. Beta orbitors will still pursue. I blame low testosterone. The lack of self respect and no fathers does not help.