[Dragan]

(04-30-2018 01:22 PM)Tintin Wrote:  

Once you start telling Serbs that you live there permanently they lose respect for you..... "Why??!"

I would tell them yoy have some business reasons to be in Serbia, and you spend time there and some in America

Thanks for the info, just out of curiosity, I assume you've been over here before? Starting to think, personally, that vagueness is good when talking to people in serbia.

[Tintin]

Yes I spent extended time there. They were ofen disappointed that I chose to spend time in Serbia. I mean in their eyes if someone could live anywhere why does he choose to be in Belgrade in winter instead of a beach in Brazil. Then it becomes clear you are a pussy hunter. You can bullshit them, Serbs won't judge as they are master bullshitters themselves

[Dragan]

Day 9: Apart from chatting with the waitress at the cafe, I didn't do much.

Met a friend, drank some beer and rakia and talked about girls. Also went to a casino--got a lot of gamblers here.

He is of the opinion that I need to be low-key, chill, and vague/mysterious with girls. He says I need to spend minimal amount of money on dates, and try to touch escalate (I guess that's what you'd call it) them. Made a pact with him to ask a girl out on a date asap.

[Dragan]

This Post May Save Your Life:

I'm dispensing from my usual daily update, to give you a hyper-specific update about the Sad, Sad state of medical care here. I've now been in serbian hospitals 4 or 5 times, and I don't have anything, anything positive to say about them, other than that the care may be considered "free". If you come to the Balkans, be prepared for some of the most fucked up shit.

Good friend got back from a holiday abroad, got some sort of leg injury swimming and his leg was drenched in blood (was on holiday in another balkan country.). They put a bandage on this shit, and off they sent him, he had to take the bus back... Doesn't sound pleasant.

I'd call it a decently bad injury, and he was in serious need of visiting the hospital again. Drove to the hospital with him, his movement being pretty restricted. As always, the hospitals in serbia seem more like a hospital you see in a warzone... understaffed, slow, people really looking like they're sufferilng in corridors for assistance. And it looks bad, I never remember feeling this appaled about american hospitals when I was there, but hey, maybe I have a bad memory. People in the corridors or in front of the hospital literally looking like they are dying...

My friend got to the care room? they directed him to (after having to check in in the front of the hospital), hobbling in, and they just basically told him to fuck off and go get some antibiotics. Sounds like bad service to me....

Fast forward, first pharmacy doesn't have the antibiotic, and so we go to another one. For some reason they won't sell it to us, unless my friend is physically present there. So after grabbing him from the car we're able to get the stuff for him.

My advise: don't get hurt in the balkans, most countries advise their citizens that medical care is shit in the balkans and that they need to be evacuated asap to western europe for proper treatment. I now believe this after 4-5 bad unique experiences in balkan hospitals. On the subject, care is shit, so bribery is really common--that or people with money choosing private medical institutions for care.

Medical evacuation insurance looks like a better deal to me each new tlme I'm in a balkan hospital. Get sick or injured at your own risk here. (Day 10).

[sterling_archer]

What is interesting is that at the same time you have cases like you described AND hospitals getting state of the art equipment and making first operations in Europe on some particular matter. That contrast is highly obvious here in Balkans.

[Dragan]

(05-02-2018 01:03 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

What is interesting is that at the same time you have cases like you described AND hospitals getting state of the art equipment and making first operations in Europe on some particular matter. That contrast is highly obvious here in Balkans.

Personnel can be really good or really bad. I don't know anything about the current state of medical technology here, though.

[sterling_archer]

Well, for example many times is reported in the news how some Croatian hospital got new most advanced equipment and how our surgeons are top notch. These are followed by same surgeons making difficult operations for which people commonly go to other countries. So we could say that Croatian state of hospitals and staff is top notch. But at the same time we tend to experience unpleasantness that your friend experienced. That is the contrast of which I am talking about.

[superschalk]

(05-02-2018 05:02 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

Well, for example many times is reported in the news how some Croatian hospital got new most advanced equipment and how our surgeons are top notch.

You can´t really compare Croatia and Serbia. Croatia is light years ahead of Serbia thanks to the EU and the tourism industry. GDP per capita is more over 100% higher in Croatia.

[ElJefe1]

(05-01-2018 06:16 PM)Dragan Wrote:  

This Post May Save Your Life:

I'm dispensing from my usual daily update, to give you a hyper-specific update about the Sad, Sad state of medical care here. I've now been in serbian hospitals 4 or 5 times, and I don't have anything, anything positive to say about them, other than that the care may be considered "free". If you come to the Balkans, be prepared for some of the most fucked up shit.

Good friend got back from a holiday abroad, got some sort of leg injury swimming and his leg was drenched in blood (was on holiday in another balkan country.). They put a bandage on this shit, and off they sent him, he had to take the bus back... Doesn't sound pleasant.

I'd call it a decently bad injury, and he was in serious need of visiting the hospital again. Drove to the hospital with him, his movement being pretty restricted. As always, the hospitals in serbia seem more like a hospital you see in a warzone... understaffed, slow, people really looking like they're sufferilng in corridors for assistance. And it looks bad, I never remember feeling this appaled about american hospitals when I was there, but hey, maybe I have a bad memory. People in the corridors or in front of the hospital literally looking like they are dying...

My friend got to the care room? they directed him to (after having to check in in the front of the hospital), hobbling in, and they just basically told him to fuck off and go get some antibiotics. Sounds like bad service to me....

Fast forward, first pharmacy doesn't have the antibiotic, and so we go to another one. For some reason they won't sell it to us, unless my friend is physically present there. So after grabbing him from the car we're able to get the stuff for him.

My advise: don't get hurt in the balkans, most countries advise their citizens that medical care is shit in the balkans and that they need to be evacuated asap to western europe for proper treatment. I now believe this after 4-5 bad unique experiences in balkan hospitals. On the subject, care is shit, so bribery is really common--that or people with money choosing private medical institutions for care.

Medical evacuation insurance looks like a better deal to me each new tlme I'm in a balkan hospital. Get sick or injured at your own risk here. (Day 10).

You should go to private hospitals they are actually really up to date, nice, clean and doctors are good if youre going to the free hospitals well.... Youll be disappointed.

[Dragan]

(05-02-2018 05:02 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

Well, for example many times is reported in the news how some Croatian hospital got new most advanced equipment and how our surgeons are top notch. These are followed by same surgeons making difficult operations for which people commonly go to other countries. So we could say that Croatian state of hospitals and staff is top notch. But at the same time we tend to experience unpleasantness that your friend experienced. That is the contrast of which I am talking about.

I don't know much about croatia other than it's much richer than serbia. The standard of medical care is like something that you would get in ukraine or russia. I was told about the issues with people with fake diplomas. This shit is dangerous.... As much as I hate the AMA at least we have quality control in the US, and fake degrees are severely limited.

[Dragan]

(05-02-2018 06:50 AM)ElJefe1 Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 06:16 PM)Dragan Wrote:  

This Post May Save Your Life:

I'm dispensing from my usual daily update, to give you a hyper-specific update about the Sad, Sad state of medical care here. I've now been in serbian hospitals 4 or 5 times, and I don't have anything, anything positive to say about them, other than that the care may be considered "free". If you come to the Balkans, be prepared for some of the most fucked up shit.

Good friend got back from a holiday abroad, got some sort of leg injury swimming and his leg was drenched in blood (was on holiday in another balkan country.). They put a bandage on this shit, and off they sent him, he had to take the bus back... Doesn't sound pleasant.

I'd call it a decently bad injury, and he was in serious need of visiting the hospital again. Drove to the hospital with him, his movement being pretty restricted. As always, the hospitals in serbia seem more like a hospital you see in a warzone... understaffed, slow, people really looking like they're sufferilng in corridors for assistance. And it looks bad, I never remember feeling this appaled about american hospitals when I was there, but hey, maybe I have a bad memory. People in the corridors or in front of the hospital literally looking like they are dying...

My friend got to the care room? they directed him to (after having to check in in the front of the hospital), hobbling in, and they just basically told him to fuck off and go get some antibiotics. Sounds like bad service to me....

Fast forward, first pharmacy doesn't have the antibiotic, and so we go to another one. For some reason they won't sell it to us, unless my friend is physically present there. So after grabbing him from the car we're able to get the stuff for him.

My advise: don't get hurt in the balkans, most countries advise their citizens that medical care is shit in the balkans and that they need to be evacuated asap to western europe for proper treatment. I now believe this after 4-5 bad unique experiences in balkan hospitals. On the subject, care is shit, so bribery is really common--that or people with money choosing private medical institutions for care.

Medical evacuation insurance looks like a better deal to me each new tlme I'm in a balkan hospital. Get sick or injured at your own risk here. (Day 10).

You should go to private hospitals they are actually really up to date, nice, clean and doctors are good if youre going to the free hospitals well.... Youll be disappointed.

Yeah I would go to a private hospital.... Also reminds me of this story Dan Bilzerian has about a sketchy doctor (conrad murray, michael jackson's doctor) and a crazy weekend in vegas... If i'm not mistaken Conrad Murray got his medical degree in the Caribbean:

[Bigfoot]

(05-02-2018 05:53 AM)superschalk Wrote:  

(05-02-2018 05:02 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

Well, for example many times is reported in the news how some Croatian hospital got new most advanced equipment and how our surgeons are top notch.

You can´t really compare Croatia and Serbia. Croatia is light years ahead of Serbia thanks to the EU and the tourism industry. GDP per capita is more over 100% higher in Croatia.

man, as a Croat I had to take a minor surgery back in 2010; after being butchered (3 times!) I had enough and went to a private clinic - shit sorted out in 2 days

I dont know how bad it is in Serbia but if you have any significant thing to deal with in Croatia, you better go to a private clinic



p.s. coming to Belgrade on Monday for a week, I guess I wont get into much trouble as a Croatian given the fact that I am affiliated with the local MMA gym

[Dragan]

Pretty bad here.

[ZoroZingzzz]

Dragan,

I'm an American who moved to Belgrade last year and lived there through most of 2017. I'm a relatively young guy who had just finished school and was able to use the exceptional quality of life/low cost to bootstrap my first reliable location remote income stream. That was awesome. And I loved all kinds of things about the city. In many ways, it actually felt more like NYC, esp pre-Guiliani/Bloomberg, than any other place I've been or lived in Europe. I really would love to call a city like Belgrade home.

To be blunt: I do not have white skin, do not speak Serbian, and social circle and relationships seem to be everything in every part of the Balkans. I have some real friends in Belgrade now, but it took incredible effort. I'd definitely be grateful to see what that experience was like compared to going out with someone like you. And though I think I properly tore up the city, I'm sure there are dozens and dozens of cool places I missed.

A few random recommendations (hopefully they haven't all already been said elsewhere, for people thinking of going):

-DRAGSTOR. It all depends what you're into and what kinds of girls/people you like, but for me this was easily one of the most fun nightlife experiences I had in the city. It's sort of like what Berghain apparently was in the 80s. Attracts an insanely liberal/open-minded crowd by Belgrade standards and everyone is super approachable and interesting. The venue is a multi-story, multi-room, seemingly once abandoned warehouse near a highway well outside of Old Town, and in every room, depending on the night, you tend to hear completely different types of contemporary music (e.g. trance DJ in one massive area, live heavy metal guitar band playing in the next room, atmospheric DJ in yet another room). It's hard to describe but among clubs I've been to throughout Europe and Asia, this one is quite unique and definitely not about you're money. Unlike your typical "rave land," in a Western city, it's definitely not just a venue for drug traffickers (though I'm sure there is plenty of that), and I met shockingly interesting people - and girls - throughout the space.

-MINT. This is one of the latest after-hours clubs in Belgrade, afaik. It does have a more of a drugged-out vibe, but it's crazy to me as the Puritanized American, even as a demi-New Yorker, to see a party that doesn't really get started until 9AM. You could definitely pull from here for an SNL, unlike 99% of places in town, if you had even basic dance floor game or met the physical attraction bar. Quality is not as high as some places, but I met many great girls here.

-KPTM. I'm not sure I even have the acronymn right. This is something like a natives regular outdoor/backyard party and is definitely not a sponzorsa/get-your-money type of party nor is it conservative like a Kafana. The normal spot is still quite close to Old Town but you go a bit North East as memory serves. KPTM may advertise on Facebook, but I don't think there's a website. Really interesting local Belgradians do go here, but, like 99% of ventures, you're still at a huge disadvantage IMO without being conversational in the language. On the other hand, a girl I only closed nearly a year later (she came to see me in another country), a really bright engineer who was multi-generation Belgrade but also very liberal and pretty much openly hated being in Serbia, couldn't wait to get out, and get a job in the UK, wouldn't stop talking me for the entire night the minute she heard English coming out of my mouth because it was rare enough there. So it depends what you are looking for I suppose. If someone wants me to dig up the address, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

-Hot mess. I do /not/ think it's easy to pull from here without real prior social connection, at least a solid crew you tag with, but this is a Vegas-style (well, almost) pool-party club that open from the afternoon, stays open until the next day typically, and I think tends to pull a very attractive crowd.

-If you simply duck your head into old "abandoned" buildings, especially the ones near the various faculties, that you hear music coming out, unlike any city I've ever seen (though what I've heard Berlin was like after the Wall Came down), you absolutely will find spontaneously organized parties that were maybe advertised on Facebook, but otherwise not really promoted or about making money at all. Sometimes there are incredible DJs and really cool girls at these things.

-In follow-up to that, crashing "private" parties seems to be an art form among several really successful guys I met in Belgrade, but it's not an area where my skills/thin-slice always took me quite where I wanted to go.

-Belgrade has some of the best value/money massages I've ever seen in Europe. I highly recommend Kinetico salon at least once if that's your thing.

I'm still digesting my Beograd experiences, but I may contribute a full data sheet here soon. Please forgive any typos and brevity.

I'd love to meet up with you and this crew you're assembling if/when I go back to the city this year. Let me know what's up.

[ZoroZingzzz]

For anyone considering Belgrade, I would just also manage expectations by saying: This is NOT an easy city to hook up in. Even to make lasting connections. Like so many places, if you are really serious about that, I'd recommend:

1) Come with a real work/social connection to the place, ideally some kind of prestigious job. This is by far the easiest way, like in any place. That said you can also:

2) Invest in really learning to speak the language, at least well enough to start something at a nightclub
3) Get swoll as hell (Belgrade gyms are one of the other things I really give the city props for and that I should also put in a data sheet. It has 24hr gyms that are excellent value for money and have excellent facilities).
5) Be tall. Be built. Dress a little flashy. Wear a nice a watch. Be prepared to whip out your iPhone and DHV your whole live, your banging' duplex apartment in town, and all the amazing countries you've travelled to at a moment's notice.
6) Be white. (Sorry, but it's true...)
7) Be very persistent in your connections with women - while a dark sense of humor and the ability to give and survive any shit test is a plus, I think "negging" like in a lot of places outside the US, can definitely work against you.
8) Try to make friends everywhere you go. Ideally, play sports, love sports, and seek guys out to play with. Belgrade is not an introvert's paradise.
9) Go out constantly when you first arrive and spend your first few weeks trying to make helpful social connections everywhere you can. This is almost more important than any individual approaches.

So EVERYTHING here is about relationships. Even though you can make cold approach work, you will put in more effort here than in 99% of the West, and you probably will get much worse "quality" in return unless you are very strategic/incorporate a smart DHV or social circle angle in some other way. This is a city for long-term game.


In Belgrade, the rewards can clearly be massive. But I am saying, at least from my experience, that the level of effort involved for a real foreigner is not trivial either. The Balkans are in some ways like the Olympics, or at least the national finals, of game. If you could pull off the above though, I could easily see this being the place a young guy would never want to leave.

[ZoroZingzzz]

Dragan, I'm just getting caught up on your honest posts. It sounds like we spent some of our childhood in the US in pretty much the same place as well...I'm enjoying your writing.

The "interrogation" you describe below comes up in the Balkans more than any other place I've ever been. It's the standard thing you do when meeting a new person I think, definitely a foreigner. From a girl, to use some PUA lingo that I actually find helpful in this case, it seems as good as an example of R v. K selection as anything I've encountered. And Serbia is still an overwhelmingly "K" country, if you want to use that lingo. So my 2 cents is that you NEED a good backstory, in the end, at least with any normal chick, and you can't just laugh this shit off.

That said, you can definitely put up a fight before giving a straight answer, and, in most game situations, I venture you should.

More potential flippant answers (beyond the great ones you've listed, all depends on the situation obviously):

-Porn production
-International hand model.
-Rap video maker. Looking for booty bitches.
-You're a refugee. (stone cold silence afterward.)
-Political consultant. Your client is a dictator hoping to overthrow the government here. This is only going to work on a smart/nerdy girl.
-Leader of the largest street gang in your home US state. Thinking of expanding operations.
-Opening a cevapi restaurant.

I think dark, dark, highly insulting humor is a Balkan art form that barely exists at a similar intensity anywhere else in the West, save certain places in cities like Chicago/NYC and on late night TV. In NYC, if I said similar stuff, I would want to say it with a smirk and a glint in my eyes. In Belgrade, I would say it dead pan, completely serious, aiming for a stone-cold serial killer expression...

The only facial expression I would master beside stone cold deadpan in Belgrade, esp when answering some new girl's questions, is the single raised eyebrow. As I'm sure you've noticed, local guys seem to do it like breathing

(04-30-2018 05:45 AM)Dragan Wrote:  

Don't mean to double post, but damn security check is giving me issues.

I don't know if I'm handling the female associates right. They're asking me a lot of questions, and I'm basically submitting to their framing/interrogation. I need, I think, to either flippantly answer their questions, or flip the convo and interrogate them. I'm getting tired of the interrogations here in serbia, it is the same with everyone, doesn't matter if it's chicks or dudes. I think I've also made a mistake of telling some associates the neighborhood I live in... I think they're trying to determine my status as a foreigner... Anyone have ideas on how to handle females making you qualify yourself.... I'm starting to get pissed off with the questions, and I don't mean to project that, but I've started joking a lot more about why I'm here. At this point I'm telling people I'm here to convert to orthodoxy, eat burek, smoke cigarettes... Other ideas? Maybe I'm a fugitive...?

I've hung outside the professional setting with one female so far (wrote about it in a past post), and I need to hang out with some of these other girls as well, but I think it needs to happen naturally or spontaneously. At some point they should want to hang out if I have any value as a foreigner.... I'm totally oblivious to workplace norms here, so that's an issue. Coincidentally I'm also pretty blind to american workplace norms, never really worked in an office per se...

[Dragan]

Day 11: Went to work, no one at work decided to tell me that we were starting earlier today--Balkan shit... "Ah, Dragan you're too quiet at work.... talk more to us." This is maybe the Sigma? in me speaking, but when I go to work, I work without talking to anyone, and get all my shit done, maybe take one break halfway through for a smoke, and that's it. If they pull this shit with me again, I'm doubling down and telling them to party with me after work is done--this is like a Balkan duality--we want to have fun at work, but then when work is over, we don't have enough money to hang out for fun...Bullshit....

Talked at-length with friends about approach anxiety, so either today or tomorrow I'm doing 25 approaches, maybe with a Serbian wing.... They told me I can meet girls anywhere... Bus stop, park, bar, etc... Bought some rakia, man did that shit end up giving me a bad night... Do it at your own risk, gentlemen.

[stefpdt]

I've noticed something interesting happening on this forum.

People really like Dragan's vulnerable style of writing and storytelling.

Did you know that women are also attracted to this same type of give-zero-fucks honesty?

If you talk to women the same way you talk to guys on this forum, you're going to experience some massive success pretty soon.

Mark Manson wrote his book "Models" based off this same concept of being 100% honest and authentic in your interactions with women. Digital Nomad is another RVF'er who credits the book Models for helping to develop his style of game.

The "authentic" style of game probably isn't for everyone. But I'd be willing to bet Dragan can pull it off.

[[email protected]]

Quote:

Did you know that women are also attracted to this same type of give-zero-fucks honesty?

Not in Eastern Europe they're not

You are better bending the truth to suit their desires

[Dragan]

Day 12: Project Belgrade is quickly turning into something better. I'm fully embracing the Balkan mentality and it's yielding some incredible results.

It's quickly growing into something I never imagined was possible; and I'm high on life at the moment.

To all the lurkers on the forum, and people looking for something more: DO IT!

I've lost all my fucks, and it feels incredible.

Maybe will give a second day 12 update later.

~~Dragan~~

[sterling_archer]

delete

[Dragan]

Day 12: I started approaching! That's tough for me to do, but I've probably done more approaches today than I've done in sum total than the rest of my life (6 today).

It's a funny story, but I found myself in the center of Belgrade with all my friends there, so I decided to start approaching, with them keeping me accountable. Although I approached 6 sets, it was something like 12 women or whatever.

Honestly, I just started with "Do you speak serbian", or "do you have a lighter?" My first set was my best one, I was doing really well, used a fellow forum member's anecdote about starting a cevapi restaurant, and it went well, until her friend showed up. I think i opened asking for a lighter.

I had another good set, she offered to take me to the bus, used the lost tourist opener, but I was with friends.

I got 2-3 really bad blow-outs in my sets, within my first line, or the first 10 seconds or though.

This is really a breakthrough for me, and I've lost all fear... I wanted to keep approaching but my friends told me to stop.... (had to go somewhere else)...

Anyway, thanks to the forum members that encouraged me to approach; Thrive and Nola in particular... It will only get better from here!

[Bigfoot]

Draganeeeeeeeee

see you guys next week

[sterling_archer]

Jebem li ti lebac krvavi!

[Dragan]

Day 13: I honestly can't remember anything that happened today. I think I was at a bar at some point and they tried to give us another round of drinks un-solicited, and I literally walked the hell out of there in disgust. Partying here is catching up with me, I have a really bad fucking cough from smoking a pack a day (I normally smoke 2 cigarettes a day). Moderation is not my strong-suit.
Day 14: Smoking cigs with colleagues, girl tells me to try her cigarette--that was a bit forward! Feeling exhausted from constantly going out.
Day 15: Still in progress. Woken up at 600 by friends, demanding to drink--I sipped one beer and went back to sleep. Deflecting questions about why I'm here from girls, going with opening a cevapi restaurant and international fugitive wanted by NATO with the girls.