[BlueMark]

I've read on RVF that you shouldn't kiss the girl until you're in a place where you could escalate all the way to sex (e.g. hotel, bedroom).

But I've found that by trying to follow this rule, I spend too much time in my head analyzing whether it's a good time to kiss, rather than just going with instinct and kissing her. Especially since I've been trying follow the model of non-bar/club approach-to-instant date, rather than scheduling a drinks date later when the time is right -- it's not always 100% guaranteed that I can take her home. This could mean that I need to make a good first impression by kissing her if there's a doubt that we can go home together. I feel like I've lost a few opportunities by not doing that.

So I wonder if the "no kissing until in a sex location" rule is more for pre-scheduled drink dates and maybe bar/club pickups. I've also read elsewhere on RVF that it's good for newbies to disregard the more advanced "game techniques" and just focus on the basics and keeping a frame of dominating and seducing the girl.

My recent experience suggests this too. I got my first lay from cold approaching a few weeks ago, while breaking this rule. I met a Japanese tourist on a Friday night, took her from the approach venue to a more isolated second venue, and kissed her about 5 minutes after we arrived. It was a light kiss, not a full-on makeout, to avoid setting off the fireworks too early.

I'm not sure if not kissing would have made a difference in this case. I was already escalating before the kiss -- holding her hand to cross a busy street, putting my arm around her, and playing with her hair. And she was a tourist with nothing else to do on a late Friday night. But it clearly didn't hurt and might have made her more attracted that I was bold enough to kiss her so soon after meeting her.

In response the kiss, she gave me a little trouble for why I approached her in public (shit test?) but I played it down and the tone of our interaction was positive. Two hours after my approach, we were in my apartment. She gave me no last-minute resistance and I got my Japanese flag that night!

[kinjutsu]

Its a rule for a reason.
Don't escalate if you can't fuck her.
If you pump her buying temp too high and have no place to fuck her anti slut defense will go off and she will go old on you super fast.

As you get more experience you'll know which rules are firm and which ones have some wiggle room for your style of game. And more importantly how to break the rules and not fuck your shit up.

[XXL]

Every rule can be broken. The overall point is to refrain from all out making out to avoid buyer's remorse and to amp up the tension that will be released in the right place and time.

When that place and time is near so to speak then it's fine to give a little preview what is there to come.

[Sonoma]

It's a rule I created for myself long before I learned about "game" as a formalized community. It is not also a rule I've followed to a T.

In the example you listed, you used a kiss as a means of increasing your value.

In some cases, withholding a kiss can increase value (something women know all too well).

It really depends on who you are, how she's feeling and what you want. Sometimes I've kissed girls and it went well, sometimes I've not kissed a girl and she thought I wasn't interested in her, so she found a guy who would. Sometimes I've had a girl think I was just a wuss for not kissing her, so she wasn't interested.

It can go a lot of different ways, I'd say it's far more important to be comfortable with whatever you choose to do than to be uncomfortable with whatever "rules" people have come up with. You say you spend too much time analyzing it, which tells me you should probably just consider it a suggestion and not worry about it too much.

[BlueMark]

(10-16-2017 08:08 AM)XXL Wrote:  

Every rule can be broken. The overall point is to refrain from all out making out to avoid buyer's remorse and to amp up the tension that will be released in the right place and time.

When that place and time is near so to speak then it's fine to give a little preview what is there to come.

Right, the key is that I limited it to a brief and gentle kiss and did not go for an actual makeout. Enough to show that I'm not afraid to do it, but leave room for something more passionate later. That's gotten a better response so far than holding out on the kiss and then she has to go and I never see her again.

I'll try that for my next few interactions and see how it goes. Or some variant, like going for the kiss but breaking it off at the last minute and say "maybe later."

[mensch]

My secret: every location is a sex location.

[scotian]

It all depends on the context, if you’re at a bar and she’s grabbing your cock and shoving her tongue in your ear then of course you should kiss her, then call a cab back to your place asap.

[The Catalyst]

I think the rule is more solid than most. However yes I agree with XXL that every rule can be broken.

[PapayaTapper]

Can you hit on two 10's in blackjack and end up with a 21? Of course you can.

Can you do it consistently? Of course not. Odds are pretty shitty

"Rules" in game are just derived from understanding female attraction to arousal dynamics to and are more guidelines that improve your odds of playing a winning "hand"

There is an immutable logic to the rationales behind the "dont kiss until your in a bang location"

Defy those rationales at your own risk

[RatInTheWoods]

I don't believe its always bad to kiss before you are in the bang location.

A kiss is a step on the escalation ladder, shows intent, builds tension and secures comfort.

I've had great success with kissing before bang location.

[mensch]

On a serious note, I think that the rule applies mainly to first dates and such.

I'd say that if enough attraction was built, often the case when you knew each other before or had a date already, the kiss won't kill your chances. In fact, it can be a good thing to move things along and show action.

[PapayaTapper]

(10-18-2017 05:37 AM)mensch Wrote:  

On a serious note, I think that the rule applies mainly to first dates and such.

I'd say that if enough attraction was built, often the case when you knew each other before or had a date already, the kiss won't kill your chances. In fact, it can be a good thing to move things along and show action.

Good point of distinction. This rule applies to pre first bang encounters such as first dates and if its a girl you just met in a club, or whatever

[Jagnum]

(10-16-2017 04:53 AM)BlueMark Wrote:  

I got my first lay from cold approaching a few weeks ago, while breaking this rule. I met a Japanese tourist on a Friday night, took her from the approach venue to a more isolated second venue, and kissed her about 5 minutes after we arrived. It was a light kiss, not a full-on makeout, to avoid setting off the fireworks too early.

I'm not sure if not kissing would have made a difference in this case. I was already escalating before the kiss -- holding her hand to cross a busy street, putting my arm around her, and playing with her hair. And she was a tourist with nothing else to do on a late Friday night. But it clearly didn't hurt and might have made her more attracted that I was bold enough to kiss her so soon after meeting her.

In response the kiss, she gave me a little trouble for why I approached her in public (shit test?) but I played it down and the tone of our interaction was positive. Two hours after my approach, we were in my apartment. She gave me no last-minute resistance and I got my Japanese flag that night!

Congrats dude.

[kirdiesel]

(10-16-2017 05:24 AM)kinjutsu Wrote:  

Its a rule for a reason.
Don't escalate if you can't fuck her.
If you pump her buying temp too high and have no place to fuck her anti slut defense will go off and she will go old on you super fast.

As you get more experience you'll know which rules are firm and which ones have some wiggle room for your style of game. And more importantly how to break the rules and not fuck your shit up.

This isn't a hard rule. You have to analyze the situation and the make the call appropriately.

I find this to be a matter of degree. You can kiss her but you have to be very careful of how much you pump her buying temp. If your logistics are right and her friend isn't blocking you too hard you can move forward but once again not too hard.

If you got bad logistics and her friend is a threat to the entire situation back the fuck off, get the number and follow up later.


Believe me Ive been down this road before and it sucks to lose a girl for something so stupid. This is coming from an club game aspect btw

[TripleG]

(10-16-2017 01:22 PM)scotian Wrote:  

It all depends on the context, if you’re at a bar and she’s grabbing your cock and shoving her tongue in your ear then of course you should kiss her, then call a cab back to your place asap.

This happened to me some time ago with an HB9, however I did not call a cab back to my place but just got her number after heavy action at a bar and figured would call her the next day. Unfortunately never heard back from her again.

Moral of the story is always keep escalating, girls can be extremely fickle and spontaneous and if you don't take advantage of the opportunity presented you may never have one again.

[Sam Malone]

A lot of the info in this entire forum is more like an atlas than a road map.

My personal experience, I've had more success on converting first dates to bangs if I wait to kiss until I'm in the bang location.

Until then, I'll initiate light kino, some playful touching, and so on. Not too sexually forward, more like leg against leg (sitting at the bar), lightly touching her hips (if we're negotiating through a crowd and she's in front), touching the small of her back (walking through a doorway), whispering in her ear (and touching our cheeks together), a gentle hip tap/smack (if we're playing pool and discussing what to shoot), and so on.

If (when) she does come back to my place, or I go to hers, I don't immediately kiss her as soon as we walk in the door. I take a few more minutes to build comfort before leaning in as we're talking. The kiss (in my experience) is a precursor for sex. By holding off on it until the location, she's not sure if this will be a continuation of the fun you're both having, or if things will escalate when you're alone with each other. If you've done the prep work correctly (light kino, etc), she's going to want to find out which one it is. Waiting to kiss her until getting to the location gives her enough plausible deniability once you're isolated.

Not that I wouldn't switch up if she were in the bar grabbing my crotch. In that case I'd do what Mensch posted, and try to find a location in the immediate vicinity.

While there are plenty of different routes/approaches to take to your destination (the bang/notch), you have to find the route that works best for you under certain road/weather conditions (logistics, uber availability, time constraints, etc.).

Again, the (great) advice everywhere in this forum is an atlas.

You have to create your own route, and be able to adjust as necessary.

[PapayaTapper]

I cant count how many times Ive bumped or referred to this thread by Tuthmosis

thread-8681-...#pid127689

In my opinion it is the single most accurate and useful step by step "formula" for guys that want to know "what to do" and "what not to do". If you follow this guide for any pre first bang date (not just first dates) you will increase your chance of success..assuming your goal is sex and not making out like a junior high-schooler

I keep saying this post should be required reading for anyone seriously interested in improving conversion ratios

Relevant to this thread pay particular attention to Step 4. Yes you can break this "rule" but if you truly grasp the rationale it will make this obvious


Part 1

Quote:

Information New Recipe for Securing First-Date Bangs
I haven't dropped any game posts in some time, so I thought I'd do a quick write-up of my personal procedure--that's been working wonders for me lately--for securing the bang on the first date. This may or may not be your schtick, but I thought I'd share it with the community.

As usual, I invite you to chop it up with me. I'd like to refine this further, if possible.

Tuthmosis's Homemade First-Date Bangs

Prep Time: 60 mins
Cooking Time: 3-4 hours
Serves 2.

Ingredients

1 free night
1 cute girl
2-4 alcoholic drinks
1 decent/smooth venue (preferably a lounge-style bar)
1 cool bachelor pad
Liberal amounts of logistical planning

Directions

Step 0. Get your logistics (pre-date planning) in order.
Any of you who know my game know that I'm always preaching the "logistics sermon." My credo is that an ounce of logistics is worth a pound of pussy. Even if your game is dog-shit, solid logistics will still get you laid here and there. Logistics is among the most under-developed parts game, in my opinion.




Once you have your system (whatever that is) down, it doesn't require a lot of effort to repeat over and over. In my case, this revolves around--apart from making sure my game-knife as sharp as possible that night--having my pad on complete lock-down:

-Apartment tidied up
-Light dimmers set on optimum setting
-Cool, smooth playlist queued up
-Condom stashes stocked up
-Dishes washed
-Plenty of ice ready for drink making
-Mixers and alcohols stocked

This, of course, pre-supposes an optimal living situation. I live by myself and have a reasonably lounging set-up (with cool, interesting decor); I think this is the ideal situation. If you live with other people, a good atmosphere is still possible, but you need to add the additional step of Roommate Lock-Down, where your housemates know what to do (and more importantly, what not to do) when you come around at night with some talent.

Another piece of logistics involves knowing your surroundings and routes home. You need to have at least one or two go-to places--ideally within walking distance, but otherwise easily accessible--near your pad. This place should, at minimum, have good lighting, good music, comfortable seating (if possible), and serve drinks (and preferably serve no food beyond light "tapas"). Even better, you should know the optimal nights at each place, so that can pick your spot according to the day of the week. If you're a real G, you have each venue's calendar page bookmarked in a folder in your Internet browser. When it's time to make a selection, you hit "load all pages" for that folder and pick accordingly.

This may sound like a lot, but the more of these things your spot has, the higher your chances of doing damage are going to be.

Step 1. Angle your date for optimal logistics.
I'm assuming you've met your girl during the day, online, or quickly at night, where you still haven't actually had significant time alone with her yet. This means, 9.5 times out of 10, that you're going to be coordinating a "first date" via text. I always try to get a girl to a place near my apartment, or within striking distance and along one of my routes to it (a stop on the subway or a reasonable walk).

I often get the psychology set up ahead of time too, adding something like this to my text, "let's start [emphasis added for the purposes of this post] at XYZ Lounge. We can always bounce somewhere else if its lame."

Of course, it goes without saying that you should have observed all of the Game 101 requirements: setting the date up at a time after standard dinner time, keeping your texts functional and minimalist, and waiting to set up the final details until the day of the date (so you have an excuse to ping the girl via text, and thereby minimize flaking).

None of you need to be reminded of this.

Step 2. Get a round of drinks at your first venue.
Don't fuck around with making her buy her own drink or some other principled bullshit. At the same time, don't fall into being her free-refills fountain for the night.

If you've picked a good, loungey bar and gotten there around, say, 9/9:30, during the week (when you should be a doing a "first date" anyway), there'll be ample seating. Grab your seat--with optimal location for your purposes--talk for a couple of minutes, and then say something like the line I've been using since my first day of "formally" practicing game: "what are you drinking? First round's on me."

I don't need to tell you what that implies about the second round.

Step 3. Build some old-school comfort, using generous amounts of "neo-kino"
Sorry to drop some ugly PUA-style jargon here, but this it's important for differentiation purposes. This is the stage where you're going to work your regular player magic, with a slight twist. You're telling stories, jokes, and whatever else is in your particular quill. For me, it's elaborate stories that stack on one another and meander all over the place. That's my neurotic style; it's probably not yours.

Meanwhile, you're doing what I'm going to have to call "neo-kino." Why neo? Because you're omitting all of the stupid palm readings, forced hugs, or other gimmicky, high-energy crap from the early 2000s. It's really the same thing, just considerably more subtle. Everything, needless to say, is smooth and unawkward. Some of what I do:

-Gradually invade her personal space as if she's succeeding in getting you interested. If you do it right, she will reciprocate.
-I touch her legs and arms with the back of the hand for emphasis on certain points
-I high-five her upon cool discoveries about her (in a calm, un-douchey, not-over-enthusiastic way); if she likes a band I like, for instance, I give her a high five
-A couple of times--emphasis on a couple of times--I hold eye contact for a little bit while talking, like I'm telepathically telling the bitch that, "I'm going to make out with [her] soon"

This shit is so nuanced that it's nearly impossible to describe in-person, never mind in an Internet post. Everyone is different, so your style of touching may be also, but just make sure to do a good amount of it.

Meanwhile, during the conversation portion, I've talked up--among other things--the bar in my apartment or some "new drink" that "I've learned to make." I'm not pushing it, I just drop the seed and move on. This doesn't have to be a drink, but it's what I use. Just insert your pad into the conversation somehow, so you can have a fake "aha! moment" about it later.

Step 4. Absolutely do not kiss her. Do not, I repeat, go for the make-out at the venue.
This is the counter-intuitive part. There will be a logical time where it seems like you should, and could, go for the escalating make-out. Ideally, this will be around the time you've finished off a slow-paced first round of drinks. If you've played your logistics correctly, you will have settled your tab (by not opening one in the first place) on the first round, so you're free to leave the venue at any point.

But don't kiss her. You should imply (physically) that you might be starting to want to, but "haven't decided yet." This means giving the subtle physical cues--like the ever-so-slightly lingering eye contact above--not some sort of overt act. She'll likely be giving you some of her own cues that she's down, but don't do it. Of course, don't avoid it pussy-like, like you're scared to do it, but like you're steadily being won you over. Keep in mind that you're being gregarious and touchy the whole time, not awkward and uncomfortable. This is very subtle physical communication, but being in that state-of-mind will help to convey this emotion.

At around the 60 to 90-minute mark, I say something like, "hey, let's do round two somewhere else." You may get some, "I have to work (or class) the next day" resistance, that's why it's important to do it on the early side, since this early in evening, it's still too early to raise this concern. She can't argue with you.

This--if I haven't already done so--is where I suggest that we go to my place, so I can "make her that drink" or whatever bachelor-pad bait I've used that night. What's more, "I live pretty close from here anyway." She knows that I'm going to try something, because I've done everything in my power to subtly suggest it, but she can reasonably expect that that's going to be merely making out. A little private make-out session probably sounds good (and safe) to her, so she's more-than-likely going to be down.

This is where not spending your make-out token plays a big part. She has iron-clad plausible deniability that all you're looking for is a private place to make out with her, that's all. Because nothing's happened so far, she feels a lot less committed about going over to your place than if you'd already made out and the next thing on the escalation hierarchy has to be sexual.

Because you've been charming and cool, you don't seem like a chump who can't put it down either. She wants to make out with you and recognizes this is her chance.

[PapayaTapper]

Part 2

Quote:

Step 5. Keep up the energy from the first venue on the move to your place.
This is important, and where I believe most guys go wrong on the move to their place. Having had only one drink, this girl is not intoxicated and she's going to the apartment of a dude she's known for an aggregate of maybe two hours, if that. Her hamster is going to be working on overdrive and you need to strangle that little bastard before he fucks you up.

One of my few talents--that I probably milk to death in my game--is making people feel at ease. I don't know why this is, but I'm often called "disarming." I'm very good about telling stories and eliciting related stories from girls and keeping them distracted. Because your place (if you've done your logistical homework correctly) is only like 10-15 minutes away, you only need to keep up this act for a short period.

If you can't talk about interesting stuff for a continuous 15 minutes, go directly to the newbie forum this instant, and stay there until you can.


I'm shocked at how consistently girls will comment on the "danger" of going home "with a stranger." It's like they're reading from a script. I had, literally, three girls over the course of the past 10 days say the same, identical shit. Of course, girls love "dangerous situations" so play on that. Why do hot girls love horror movies and hanging around with social deviants? It some psychological hard-wiring.

I always say, "what's the worst that can happen?" with an ironic tone in my voice. Gets them laughing every time. Sometimes, depending on the personality of the girl, I lay it on thick about chopping them up into little bits and adding them to my white-girl collection.

Step 6. Get her comfortable and situated in your spot.
I have the same exact routine when I come into my place with a girl. It's so similar that I sometimes feel a little dirty and guilty about it. Mostly, though, I feel like I'm going to work.

We come in; I tell them it's a "shoeless house"; I wait for them to take off their boots (and wait for them to comment about how their socks don't match, which they always do); I apologize for the "mess" because I "didn't expect to have guests" (bullshit, of course); and I give them "the tour"--which is also pre-scripted. I tell them to sit down on my couch (which is also my bed) and "get comfortable." I start the same exact playlist iTunes on my big multimedia setup and go to work on the same one or two drinks I know how to make.

If she has to piss, I let her do that. Same. Thing. Every Time.

Having a polished system like this helps.

Step 7. Give her the drink, sit down, and go back to work.
Now you're in the home stretch, player. You're comfortable and isolated. It gets easy from here. I usually sip the drink with her and chat for another 10-12 minutes; just long enough for her to barely start to wonder if I'm actually not going to make a move. "Is this guy actually atttracted to me? Is he a pussy? He seems into me, though. What the fuck?" Then, if she hasn't set her drink down herself already, I take her drink, set it on the coffee table, and start the make out.

It's amazing how enthusiastic a little waiting will have made her to receive your manly advances. They devour me half the time. The last one squealed in glee a little.

Step 8. Escalate like a champ.
This is where your old friend plausible deniability goes to bat for you. She only "expected" a private little make-out session--since you smartly left that token in your pocket--but if your make-out game is tight, you're a master at smoothly rounding those bases. Escalate expertly, like the goddamn RVF champ that you are. Because my couch doubles as a bed, I lay them out and go to town. I deflect LMR by periodically coming back up for "a sip of our drinks," before going back to work and advancing the ball upfield each time.

Step 9. Bang.
My conversion rates are considerably higher with this framework than going old-school: doing the make out at the venue and trying to get her back to my place after that. Invariably, you end up having to go for the bang on the second date (if she doesn't flake in between), because she sees the make-out as "giving you enough" to string your hongry-ass along for longer. But with this recipe, not getting the bang is more the exception than the rule. Of course I've had a few of prospects stop short. But I get farther along nonetheless. And, in one of those situations I was, quite literally, cockblocked by a tampon.

Needless to say, your rock-solid logistical planning is going to yield dividends at the bang stage. The good music, nice lighting, and prompt condom access lubricates your dick right into to the love canal.

I don't need to remind you to make sure you put it down respectably, at least. Even if you're not a sex god, make it memorable.

Step 10. Damage Control.
If you're like me, you prefer to bang prospects a few times (rather than once). Call me a romantic. If that's also your goal, you want to be prepared to do a little bit of damage control on the rapid bang. (Keep in mind that you will have banged this girl with three or four hours.) That doesn't mean you have to assuage every weird little emotion she may be going through, it just means you have to go back to being your cool, charming self for a while. It should be seamless.

This is probably cheesy (and unnecessary), but I sometimes throw this in at the end: "Whoa. I didn't expect that to happen."

--

Endnote:

The interesting part about this whole thing is that I (indirectly) learned this move from a chick. Who says you can't learn game from a woman? Just don't listen to to women, watch them. You can learn some shit.

The chick was this cute, but super-shy, college girl who was giving me mad signals. After dropping some solid game at a local lounge (on a "first date"), which brought her out of her shell, I went for the make out. This is how it went down:

Shy Girl [backing away from me]: Here?!
Tuthmosis: Yeah. [incredulously and continuing to advance]
Shy Girl: I don't really like P.D.A. [public display of affection, in case you don't know]
Tuthmosis: Well, I live less than 10 minutes from here. Let's go. [I actually lived 15 minutes from that place]
Grabbed her by the wrist and bounced.

The light bulb went off after that: some girls prefer to "make out" in private. Live and learn.

[BadgerHut]

That Tuthmosis thread is gold...every guy in the newbie forum should read it repeatedly, specifically looking for the elements of game that make it successful (I mean he talks about most of them anyway). Once you understand those fundamentals and principles, you'll understand how and when to break them.

A couple of notes:

"I take her drink, set it on the coffee table, and start the make out."

I cop this move every time. Seems to be a bit of a power move that quickly flashes your manliness or whatever. I wait for her to have her drink in hand.

"The light bulb went off after that: some girls prefer to "make out" in private. Live and learn."

This is good to remember. Sometimes there's a certain machismo in game reports that all chicks can be talked into dance-floor makeouts and bangs in the bar bathroom, and there's a certain AWALT to it, but sometimes girls are hot for you but don't want to kiss in public, esp if you haven't banged yet, or just straight don't want to do it until date 2 or 3. I talk to some guys who are concerned they aren't pulling a lot of same-night lays, and I tell them not to worry because they have a full roster of day 2/day 3s. As long as they're giving you good signals and allowing you to escalate, there's no reason to take it personally, accuse them of making you wait while they gave it to some other guy for free, or think they are stringing you along. A certain calm patience (buoyed by having several options in the kitty) combined with flexibility can yield great results. (Source: lost some lays at a point in my life when I was frustrated and a bit too impatient to let my investments mature.)

[Dalaran1991]

This rule raises another problem though, especially considering the tiny time window you have to game a girl. Nowadays you usually have only one date to try your skills. Girls have tiny attention span and if you don’t distinguish yourself from the chaff forget about the second date?

Because, what do you do if logistics simply dont allow you to move to a sex location on that date? Are we gonna start applying "no date unless you can venue transfer her home" rule?

So, you go on a first date and for whatever reason (involuntary or not) you know you can’t bang her. Will you stop at holding hands and providing free entertainment and validation and go straight to the friendzone?

I think Roosh stated that he rarely if ever banged a girl he did not kiss on the first date. This is also my experience. Always try to get the bang, but if for any reason you cannot bang, at least get the kiss.

[BadgerHut]

(12-05-2017 11:46 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

This rule raises another problem though, especially considering the tiny time window you have to game a girl. Nowadays you usually have only one date to try your skills. Girls have tiny attention span and if you don’t distinguish yourself from the chaff forget about the second date?

Because, what do you do if logistics simply dont allow you to move to a sex location on that date? Are we gonna start applying "no date unless you can venue transfer her home" rule?

So, you go on a first date and for whatever reason (involuntary or not) you know you can’t bang her. Will you stop at holding hands and providing free entertainment and validation and go straight to the friendzone?

I think Roosh stated that he rarely if ever banged a girl he did not kiss on the first date. This is also my experience. Always try to get the bang, but if for any reason you cannot bang, at least get the kiss.

If you are convinced you only have one date, and you don't have the logistics for a bang, then there isn't going to be a second date, so whether you kiss her doesn't matter. So do whatever you want. Probably worth following Tuthmosis' guide for the date in which you can get her back to you pad.

[DonnyGately]

Honestly, there's no formula that works on when to kiss or how much. Tuthmosis is a good guide, but I'd also say leave the venue and kiss her on the way back to your place. It would be super weird for me not to kiss her in a cab, uber, or my car when she's coming to my apt.

And some girls who heat up fast will take it as a rejection if you don't kiss her in the opening venue, say it's been 90 mins and a few drinks in and she's feeling sexy and wants you to know it's on. Perfectly calibrated, you can make her wait and she'll drip all the way to your bed but are you really that good? Most of us are not.

[Hazaer]

(12-07-2017 06:50 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  

Honestly, there's no formula that works on when to kiss or how much. Tuthmosis is a good guide, but I'd also say leave the venue and kiss her on the way back to your place. It would be super weird for me not to kiss her in a cab, uber, or my car when she's coming to my apt.

And some girls who heat up fast will take it as a rejection if you don't kiss her in the opening venue, say it's been 90 mins and a few drinks in and she's feeling sexy and wants you to know it's on. Perfectly calibrated, you can make her wait and she'll drip all the way to your bed but are you really that good? Most of us are not.

Would she be conscious of the cab driver watching if you are kissing her in the cab? What have been your experiences?

Another thing I have noticed with girls who are interested is the caressing of the guy's upper thighs while sitting down and chatting. Is this an indication to go for the kiss? How would you guys escalate?

[xmlenigma]

In Asian places like India where girls step out socially with their GROUPS, and are harder to break into, and also get distracted by their groups and ONS not as easy to pull, I am HEARING from friends that its better to have a kiss.. so that you don't end up being another fellow on her WhatsApp chat.. and what a buddy said was that they're more comfy going with you even for a venue change or maybe to your place if you've got the Kiss anchor down.. without it..

For instance with an American drunk makeout (which may be rather common) and would alert the girl to her ASD... Here that kiss / light makeout (in the public VENUE) may work to the opposite and make her more likely to move VENUES and Home Venue unlike the American.

Thoughts?