[YoungBlade]

^

Get you one of these

[sterling_archer]

Dalaran, probably no guard on katana because there wasn't necessity for it? I had limited training, but from what I understand parrying with katanas is bit different than with European swords. I seriously doubt they didn't know about guards on swords because when weapons are developed, all mental capacity goes into the idea, there are not many ancient badly designed swords.

[Dalaran1991]

Well to me that doesnt make sense because guards and armor in general are meant to protect against accidents. No one willingly gives up their bodyguard to be hit, of course if you can parry a strike you parry it. But nobody is that good and that’s why people wear armor.

Interestingly, the basket hilt and other fancy handguards are only a feature on civilian swords, because when you walk around town you don’t wear armor, hence the need to protect the hand because it is the most obvious target. Battle sword usually have a crossguards because knights wear metal gauntlet, mail mitten, or at the very least leather plated mitten. Thus they don’t need the whole hand protection thing.

That’s the problem with the katana/tachi IMO. Samurai hand armor is really meh. It protect against scratches and grazing hit but that’s about it. With such inadequate hand protection I would imagine people would think about protecting their hands, but apparently not.

For dueling, there’s definitely an element of style going in it though. Japanese duels are usually slash-and-done affairs where as rapier / longswords often involve longer exchanges.

Question: Among all the fancy sword out there, what’s your fav?
For me the Khopesh is the strangest sword ever, but damn it looks cool. Cant stab for shit but crushing / hooking with that thing is top.
And it’s too hot to wear armor in Egypt

[YoungBlade]

To be honest, the design of the rapier fascinates me. It was the M-16 of its era. One strike and you had a wound that could never heal properly, and if struck in the torso was likely fatal.

Aside from that, montante/Zweihänder is likely my favorite fancy sword. Check this out:

[sterling_archer]

(10-03-2017 10:44 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Question: Among all the fancy sword out there, what’s your fav?
For me the Khopesh is the strangest sword ever, but damn it looks cool. Cant stab for shit but crushing / hooking with that thing is top.
And it’s too hot to wear armor in Egypt

Khopesh actually resembles more axe than sword. People compare it with arakh from a song of ice and fire, but arakh has edge on the "wrong" side, i.e. the inner edge, thus making it a sickle. Khopesh is not a sickle.

I put grosse messer and falchion in fancy sword category and these two are awesome to me. Here in Croatia we started to use sabre early in the 16th century and its rare to see famous Croat warriors depicted with straight edged swords, so sabre is another choice for me.
Curved swords. Curved swords.

[YoungBlade]

^ you a fan of those redguards from Hammerfell?

[sterling_archer]

I knew someone would get the reference!

[Dalaran1991]

(10-03-2017 10:53 AM)YoungBlade Wrote:  

To be honest, the design of the rapier fascinates me. It was the M-16 of its era. One strike and you had a wound that could never heal properly, and if struck in the torso was likely fatal.

Aside from that, montante/Zweihänder is likely my favorite fancy sword. Check this out:

Hm ? Strange to hear that from you Young Blade cause I would never take you for a rapier renaissance fanboy. Rapier is a civilian duelist weapon, and a very very good one at that. But it is a civilian weapon, like a Glock. It’s fast and flexible, but its wounds are often minors and only fatals because medicine at the time suck at treating puncture wound. Plenty of accounts of people being run through with rapier and still kicking, often killing their opponents as their sword is trapped. This is expected, since a thin and flexible blade can never cause the kind of physical trauma and tearing a larger blade like the longsword could.

The M16 of the time is the longsword. In a longsword vs rapier match, the rapier might score first blood, but the longsword user can take the pain and use that opening to hack the leg/hand off the squishy duelist easily enough. And we both know how fast a longsword could be.

The heavy machine gun of the time is the halberd or zweihander. Unless I have a gun there’s no fucking way I’m going up against a halberd wielding Papal guard or zweihander wielding landsknetch.

Nice vid. That's why you dont fuck with people wielding Greatswords. Only the best soldiers of the Empire ever get promoted to these ranks

On a more serious note nobody really know how zweihanders were used on the battlefield. I dont think the "cutting off the pike heads" argument holds water, try doing that and it just doesnt work. Maybe more likely swung like in the vid to clear space and disrupt formation for the main infantry. It's probably the coolest and most utilitarian of all the polearms at the time.

[YoungBlade]

(10-04-2017 03:10 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(10-03-2017 10:53 AM)YoungBlade Wrote:  

To be honest, the design of the rapier fascinates me. It was the M-16 of its era. One strike and you had a wound that could never heal properly, and if struck in the torso was likely fatal.

Aside from that, montante/Zweihänder is likely my favorite fancy sword. Check this out:

Hm ? Strange to hear that from you Young Blade cause I would never take you for a rapier renaissance fanboy. Rapier is a civilian duelist weapon, and a very very good one at that. But it is a civilian weapon, like a Glock. It’s fast and flexible, but its wounds are often minors and only fatals because medicine at the time suck at treating puncture wound. Plenty of accounts of people being run through with rapier and still kicking, often killing their opponents as their sword is trapped. This is expected, since a thin and flexible blade can never cause the kind of physical trauma and tearing a larger blade like the longsword could.

The M16 of the time is the longsword. In a longsword vs rapier match, the rapier might score first blood, but the longsword user can take the pain and use that opening to hack the leg/hand off the squishy duelist easily enough. And we both know how fast a longsword could be.

The heavy machine gun of the time is the halberd or zweihander. Unless I have a gun there’s no fucking way I’m going up against a halberd wielding Papal guard or zweihander wielding landsknetch.

Nice vid. That's why you dont fuck with people wielding Greatswords. Only the best soldiers of the Empire ever get promoted to these ranks

On a more serious note nobody really know how zweihanders were used on the battlefield. I dont think the "cutting off the pike heads" argument holds water, try doing that and it just doesnt work. Maybe more likely swung like in the vid to clear space and disrupt formation for the main infantry. It's probably the coolest and most utilitarian of all the polearms at the time.

Of course the longsword is better against a rapier. The reason I'm saying the rapier was the m-16 of its era is the design of the blade. The triangular or often diamond cross section meant the wound would never close properly. So a hit would not take you down immediately, but if struck anywhere in the torso, it would kill you eventually, usually within a week. This is why such weapons are banned by the Geneva convention for war in modern times. The m-16 worked similarly in that its bullets begin to tumble inside the flesh, fucking everything up inside.

At least if you get stabbed or slashed with a longsword, it's a clean cut that can be sewed up. I'd much rather have that happen than a hole punched in me by a rapier.

I personally think the zweihänder-wielding landsknecht was a sort of "shock light infantry." They'd stay loose and mobile, as they famously didn't wear armor but chose brightly colored clothes. They'd be hidden somewhere on the edges of the battle and then sent in to flank the enemy then leave before too many of them died.

[sterling_archer]

(10-04-2017 03:10 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

On a more serious note nobody really know how zweihanders were used on the battlefield. I dont think the "cutting off the pike heads" argument holds water, try doing that and it just doesnt work. Maybe more likely swung like in the vid to clear space and disrupt formation for the main infantry. It's probably the coolest and most utilitarian of all the polearms at the time.

You are probably right. Sometimes special troops that consisted of convicts used them as they were expendable. If they survive the battle, they are free.

[sterling_archer]

Different Zweihander types. Notice how on the first one blade tapers out instead usual way. They wanted to make more cutting surface with that, but the angle is still not big enough in order to not make blade much heavier.

[YoungBlade]

Taught the recruits today. Krumphau and Schielhau. Two sneaky strikes used against opponents like myself who strike with aggression. Thankfully, teaching helps me understand the techniques.

[scorpion]

(10-02-2017 05:44 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Holy shit I cannot believe Scorpion came in this thread like this! I'm dying of laughter. Hey Scorpion, wasn't it your ass that advised Roosh to get a Roman Shortsword, with the round pommel on the bottom of the handle, when he asked for ideas on a home defense weapon? I thought you were serious back then when you said it. Don't tell me all this time you were joking around. LOL!

I never said swords weren't dangerous, I said that learning to sword fight in 2017 is a waste of time. My earlier recommendation wasn't based on having fake sword duels, it was in response to a specific question about the best possible home defense weapon that wasn't a gun. And I stand by it. Can you name a weapon you would rather be armed with if you had to fight a guy with a knife, bat or crowbar in close quarters besides a shield and short sword? I can't. And it's not like you need a lot of training to use a sword and shield effectively. Your average fit man with a sword and shield combo could easily kill an attacker who was using a knife or club while sustaining little to no injury. Block and stab, block and stab. Simple and brutally effective. Real life is not Highlander, you don't have to be a master sword fighter to survive into old age.

The correct response to me talking shit about sword fighting is, "Hey, fuck off, I just think sword fighting is fucking cool!" And I can't argue that, because it's your opinion. You think it's cool, I think it's a silly waste of time. People like different things. I don't care. I just thought the fake sword fighting in those videos was ridiculous and couldn't resist shitting on it. That being said, if I couldn't own a gun I would totally own a shield and a sword and maybe even a chainmail hat so I could LARP while I stabbed any fool who broke into my house.

[sterling_archer]

Why don't own guns and swords, shields, bows, etc.?

[Dalaran1991]

Pretty sure Scorpion is the troll job behind the "end him rightly" longsword pommel throwing techniques



Needs help: what do you do to heal sore after heavy contact in sparring?

I was tired last Friday, shouldn't have done full spar. Took a thrust to under the armpit, and several hits on the hand by a steel waster. Despite wearing full sparring mitten both my thumb got pretty sore if I squeeze them in. Now I can't grip a sword without it being a nuisance.

I know this usually goes away in 2 weeks or so but it's interfering with my ability to keep training.

[YoungBlade]

Ice and a support wrap, that's all I can give ya.

[reciproke]

Use the other hand. The sign of a great warrior is his ability to use his lance with both hands.

That's the best innuendo I do for now. But don't use ice. It counters the inflammatory response, but that reaction is absolutely needed for healing.

Shit happens all the time in Martial Arts. It comes with the turf. There is no magic pill that makes injuries go away. Some of the basic stuff that works: Hot baths, rest and avoid strain (with wraps), but never completely immobilize.

[sterling_archer]

"End him rightly" is 90% wrong translation. It probably means "end him swiftly" when translated to modern English from old German.

[YoungBlade]

But does it, in fact, end him?

[sterling_archer]

Throwing pommel at someone while he is having face protection can only make him dizzy and allow you to push the attack. At least that is my idea. On the other hand, screwed pommel is not a best choice for sword.

First of all what kind of shitty thread this pommel and sword tang has that you can unscrew it fast? Today we can use metric thread or Whitworth thread so this is slightly better choice as they can be screwed tightly onto the tang. But all in all peened tang will be best choice. Best choice regarding surviving the vibrations and having the sturdy constructions. My first sword has not peened pommel but welded. Welding should always be avoided on swords, but in my case it was just two small points in the hole of the pommel that connected it to tang and I didn't sacrifice mechanical integrity with it. I will probably do that in future on my other swords.

[YoungBlade]

Phenomenal display of medieval athleticism:

And poleaxes for Dalaran1991:

[Dalaran1991]

Did some mock battle yesterday, damn it feels good standing in the shieldwall, flanking enemies and fight shoulder to shoulder with some new guys you just met. Then you realize how quickly you just become friends. Quicker than the guys you know for 2 years working right next to ya.

Truly men bond by doing things together, preferably bashing each other (or others)'s skulls in, while women bond (if that's even possible) by gossiping.

At the end of the session where everybody was drenched in sweat and lying on the floor catching breath, the coach orders a 5 min full assault. You bash each other for 5 min until you drop, all techniques allowed, no points.

I've quickly gained a reputation for being the most aggressive newbie with decent techniques, which allowed me to dominate other noobs and gives me a fighting chance against the pro. However in this kind of assault nobody cares about techniques or aggression. The only thing that matter is endurance. I seem to have none. Had to drop out after 2 min of berserker fury. My bigger opponent just take it all on his shield and wait for me to tire out.

Most awesome session ever. I seriously believe if you get good at this you will become an overall very fit man.

On techniques: How do your coach teach you? The usual "look at the old manuals, reconstruct the techniques, then spar"?

My coach has a very unusual approach. He gives us some basic exercises like trying to thrust at the opponent while he is waving his sword around. Then he puts us all in sparring. Full gear. With metal swords. Even for the noobs.

He said that through sparring we will learn the fundamentals ourselvses, and every now and then we will, by chance, do a technique that happen to just be what is described in the manuals.

I think it's pretty good pedagogy because no training is better than actual combat. A lot of the stuff like keeping your hands closed and away from the opponent's blade, or always make sure you can withdraw to a high guard, must really be learned the hard way. Took a right swing on the head so hard I think my jaw went through my skull. Now I default to ox guard.

[sterling_archer]

Ok, ok, but what skills did you upgrade after it? One handed, block, blunt?

[Dalaran1991]

(10-06-2017 03:51 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

Ok, ok, but what skills did you upgrade after it? One handed, block, blunt?

I used to have 100 Block, One-handed, and Heavy Armour, but then I took an arrow to the knee

[YoungBlade]

(10-06-2017 03:34 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

On techniques: How do your coach teach you? The usual "look at the old manuals, reconstruct the techniques, then spar"?

Yes, unfortunately, because we are associated with a university, you cannot spar until a semester of training.

For those of us who've done this before though, we have set up sessions outside of club meetings to spar to try out what works and what doesn't. Occasionally with steel, but we don't have all the necessary gear.

I love your master's approach though. As my club grows, I will look into setting up something like this.

Good on you for being aggressive, but temper it a bit or those colossi you fear will simply beat you down after you tire.