[ColSpanker]

Last Saturday, about 5 AM, I had an attempted break-in in my house. I know it happened because I have security cameras and I review them on a regular basis. One of my family members heard a noise in the night and asked me to check the video recording.
And, sure enough, there was a video of a guy in a hoodie trying to jimmy open the back door. A noise scared him and he walked off after a two-minute attempt. Took a copy of the video to the local police, who told me they will be on the look-out, although the perp was smart enough to keep the hood over his face. He also wore gloves.
Also let all the neighbors know, so at least they have a heads-up. Cops think the guy was pretty dumb and may be back.
I don't own a gun of any sort, but now I'm reconsidering. I live forty miles from any big urban areas, but there is a highway nearby. Who is really safe these days? My town is old. It has a lot of rental units, which tend not to attract the best people.
My question to those who might know more: what is my rights if I do encounter a burglar in the house? I've heard there is a "two feet inside" rule. Supposedly, if your perpetrator is inside your dwelling, you have the right to eliminate him by any means necessary. This may be an urban myth, perhaps some of the legal types here would know better.
I keep a baseball bat in my house. Did martial arts for 20 years, so perhaps the next time Mr. Hoodie comes calling, I'll be ready.

[PapayaTapper]

(08-21-2017 09:16 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  

Last Saturday, about 5 AM, I had an attempted break-in in my house. I know it happened because I have security cameras and I review them on a regular basis. One of my family members heard a noise in the night and asked me to check the video recording.
And, sure enough, there was a video of a guy in a hoodie trying to jimmy open the back door. A noise scared him and he walked off after a two-minute attempt. Took a copy of the video to the local police, who told me they will be on the look-out, although the perp was smart enough to keep the hood over his face. He also wore gloves.
Also let all the neighbors know, so at least they have a heads-up. Cops think the guy was pretty dumb and may be back.
I don't own a gun of any sort, but now I'm reconsidering. I live forty miles from any big urban areas, but there is a highway nearby. Who is really safe these days? My town is old. It has a lot of rental units, which tend not to attract the best people.
My question to those who might know more: what is my rights if I do encounter a burglar in the house? I've heard there is a "two feet inside" rule. Supposedly, if your perpetrator is inside your dwelling, you have the right to eliminate him by any means necessary. This may be an urban myth, perhaps some of the legal types here would know better.
I keep a baseball bat in my house. Did martial arts for 20 years, so perhaps the next time Mr. Hoodie comes calling, I'll be ready.

Id ask the highest ranking cop you can talk to what the laws in your jurisdiction are.

Most attorney's will give you a free ph consultation so Id call a few criminal lawyers and ask too

Any chance the perp thought no one was home? I know you have cameras but how about motion sensor activated lights?

Home invasions are scary as they require a high level of desperation , or derangement, or both. For someone to knowingly go into a house thats occupied, possibly armed they are nuts or jonesing (junkie) really bad

Mossberg 12 guage shotgun is good basic home defense. I keep one under my mattress in CA. Glock 10 in FL Makes me sleep better.

If you do decide to buy a gun learn to use it and use it well. Make sure yoou take all the necessary precautions if children are in or visit

[Cattle Rustler]

(08-21-2017 09:16 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  

My question to those who might know more: what is my rights if I do encounter a burglar in the house? I've heard there is a "two feet inside" rule. Supposedly....

It varies by state and municipality. Check you local laws.

If you do something in Texas, like shooting someone within your property but not your home....that's okay. Do that in New Cuck City or Los Cuckgeles and you might be doing time for not registering a gun with the city or taking a course on handling it.

Srsly, a bodega owner protected his store with a shotty. The pigglets arrived and the store-owner was cited for possession of a firearm without a permit.

[The Black Knight]

1) Your rights

Generally speaking (but not always true), the more liberal the jurisdiction, the less self-defense rights you have; whereas the jurisdiction will provide more ways to fuck you over (in criminal AND civil court) by the state, an attacker, and/or the attackers family.

It truly is unbelievable how idiotic some libtards/liberal places can be about self-defense. These idiots think for example, if you have a 1% chance of surviving/escaping, then you don't have a right to shoot an attacker in your own home. OR, you should have just shot the invader in the leg (just like the movies), OR you were right to shoot the person but you shouldn't have done that last shot while they were on the ground and MAYBE incapacitated and therefore, you're a murder now. It is truly insane.

Anyhow, you will have to look up your specific local jurisdictions self-defense laws. The vary quite a bit. Start here and consider reaching out to a local lawyer: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-law...-laws.html

2) Weapons

If you know nothing about guns, take a class at a minimum, understand down to the letter of the law how you are allowed to use your weapon lawfully, and regularly practice with your weapon. For home defense, you probably want a shotgun with ammo that won't penetrate walls.

3) Insurance

Buy self-defense insurance. Legal bills can add up real quick. Make sure you understand fully what you're buying. The NRA recommends some plans I believe.

4) House Protection

There are relatively cheap home security solutions that are a bit more sophisticated than what you have. You shouldn't have to be reviewing security footage post-incident in 2017.

For example: there are systems now that will send you an alert to your phone the moment motion is detected and initiate flood lights/loud sounds to scare off possible intruders. I would investigate upgrading to something more robust and proactive. Get something that records video AND sound; could potentially help you in court.

5) Bottom line

Criminals usually pursue the least path of resistance. Cover your ass with the aforementioned and you should be good to go. If shit hits the fan, you will at least have your ducks covered as good as you can get them.

DO NOT talk to the police if an incident occurs. They are not your friend even if you are totally innocent. You can explain to the police how/why and they might let you go initially. HOWEVER, some cocksucker DA on a mission to make an example of a gun owner could charge you after the fact based on some benign shit you said in your statement. Seriously, shut the fuck up and do not say a word without a lawyer present. Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

One last thing:

It's always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Always.

[John Michael Kane]

Here's what I would do:

1. Get a gun. There are lots of great self-defense-in-the-home guns out there. Pistols with large magazines, rifles with shorter barrels and even shotguns can be great defense options. Go to a local gun store and discuss your options. Do your research online. There's tons of youtube videos covering self-defense in the home. Join the NRA and get Carry Guard or some similar firearm owner's insurance in case you ever have to shoot someone. That legal defense is always a great idea. Save your life and keep your ass out of jail. Don't forget to buy a gun safe to store the gun when not in use. As mentioned by the black knight, get training and know how to fire under duress. Practice!

2. Beef up your security system. There are smart home products that you can hook into a hub like Samsung SmartThings. Install motion and/or vibration sensors on your exterior doors and windows. Configure it with an alarm siren to blast outside of your home in case they are triggered. Best to scare away criminals instead of having to shoot them. I own guns, but I don't have any false notions of acting like a cowboy shooting people if I can scare them off. Less legal hassle in the end, plus most crooks aren't going to keep trying if they sense they've triggered an alarm. Let your guns be a final resort if they make it into your home.

3. Don't let your guard down. I used to work in one of the wealthiest zip codes in America. I went to an upscale gym where a workout buddy's brand-new AMG Benz was stolen right out of the parking lot. They broke into his gym locker, stole the keys and got on the interstate. Any place that has access to highways is a conduit to urban thugs. Don't be complacent.

4. Post a few security alarm signs around your lawn, window and door areas. Deterrents are great ways to prevent break-ins.

5. Get a big-ass dog that is a breed meant for protection. Doberman's, German Sheppards, Mastiffs etc all make good house guards.

Sorry to hear what happened, but with the advice above, you'll be a lot safer in the future.

[Sherman]

This is a good book written by an expert in self-defense law:

https://www.amazon.com/Law-Self-Defense-...lf+defense

And he teaches classes across the country. This is his website.

http://lawofselfdefense.com/

The laws differ radically depending on the state. You want to find if your state has a "Castle Doctrine". This is an area where you need to really know the rules in advance and have a sound strategy in place.

[Number one bummer]

Red = No castle doctrine, you need to be a pussy and let them kill you.

Yellow = Castle doctrine but no stand your ground law in public.

Green = Stand your ground and castle doctrine( the shade of green is difference between precedent and law)

Blue = Stand your ground is for vehicle and family member also has castle doctrine.

Castle Doctrine = You can defend your house from an invader.

Stand your ground = You have not duty to retreat if someone makes you fear for your life or the life of another


Castle doctrine is pretty solid when it comes to home invasions. There are a lot of dindunuffins and junkies that get blown away after breaking into peoples houses that result in no charges.

Look up Massad Ayoob, the guy is a genius when it comes to self-defense and the interworking's of the law. He is a well known public speaker, usually speaking to gun clubs or organizations. He covers everything you could think of when it comes to home defense. He offers a lot of advice that doesn't seem practical but can make a difference if you find yourself in a race baited Zimmerman trail.

For example he suggests not to lower the trigger pressure on your home defense pistol less than factory specs. If you lower your glock down to 2 pounds the prosecutor can try to play up to the jury that you have a hair pin trigger and probably didn't mean to shoot the didunuffin or that you were hoping to kill him.

Ayoob also has testified in high profile cases of home defense on behalf of the defendant. He points out that most of the cases that go to trial are centered around bad decisions the home owner makes after the shooting. He talked about a criminal kicked in the front door and homeowner shot him, the criminal crawls back into yard. The home owner goes out and drags him back into house thinking that the shoot wouldn't be good if guy was outside. Other cases where home owners try to plant weapons once they realize the guy wasn't armed, mainly just tampering with evidence or trying to lie to make their case stronger.

The fear of being prosecuted for defending your house is largely misplaced, Europe on the other hand is lost.

You are going to be judged by your peers and there is not much sympathy for people who break into your house in the middle of the night. As long as you don't tamper with evidence or put three more rounds in the guys head after he is down, you don't have much to worry about.

[Going strong]

I wonder if the following is legal to put on your lawn (after all, it is your own lawn and property) near your home backdoor; I mean, in a fenced-off property (every person walking on your lawn cannot pretend to have just strayed from the street or some, if there is a fence between street and lawn, and maybe a general warning sign too)...

[Sherman]

Don't do it. Booby traps are illegal.

[John Michael Kane]

Certainly NOT legal. Do not place any anti-personnel device like that around your property. A stray dog or wandering child might also walk into them causing severe injury, and certainly a lawsuit. There are other passive measures that you can employ like I mentioned in my previous post.

[Hypno]

Castle doctrine, etc is exaggerated in the media, and the prosecutors won't buy it. A jury might, but its highly dependent on the facts.

The bottom line is you can use deadly force only in self defense of life, not property. If you shoot an intruder in the back even in a castle doctrine state you likely will be charged with homicide.

When you shoot someone and they ask you what happened, tell them "I thought he was going to kill me," and then shut up and call your lawyer.

BTW, a good intermediate step is to get a dog who will bark if someone tries to break in.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(08-22-2017 04:30 AM)Hypno Wrote:  

Castle doctrine, etc is exaggerated in the media, and the prosecutors won't buy it. A jury might, but its highly dependent on the facts.

The bottom line is you can use deadly force only in self defense of life, not property. If you shoot an intruder in the back even in a castle doctrine state you likely will be charged with homicide.

When you shoot someone and they ask you what happened, tell them "I thought he was going to kill me," and then shut up and call your lawyer.

BTW, a good intermediate step is to get a dog who will bark if someone tries to break in.

I agree. The way things are going it seems that you will face about as much jail-time for shooting your burglar in self-defense (and call the cops) than if you kill him with a silencer and then bury his remains in the back yard (without bothering to call the cops). As far as divine laws go - your latter actions would be fine, but of course it would be illegal and a system should not force it's citizens to go that extent.

There were even attempts by the prosecution to get a woman to jail who shot a burglar after he broke into her house and she fled to the attic with her kids. The perp followed the family up to the attic to murder them, because they saw his face. That is when she shot him. But she was white and he was black and so it was the usual diversity bullshit and the DA wanted the woman crucified for her "crime".

Kaine put out well - if you have enough deterrents, then only the high-end burglars or totally demented ones would attempt entry. And the high-end brigade only targets the highest establishments.

[debeguiled]

What about just working on your stern school teacher voice, buying a security cam connected to your phone, and just yell at them?

At least as a first line of defense?

These guys bailed when a woman scolded them.

[PapayaTapper]

(08-22-2017 12:18 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

I wonder if the following is legal to put on your lawn (after all, it is your own lawn and property) near your home backdoor; I mean, in a fenced-off property (every person walking on your lawn cannot pretend to have just strayed from the street or some, if there is a fence between street and lawn, and maybe a general warning sign too)...

Note to self: "No dropping by GS's house"

[Beyond Borders]

Google around and you can find tripwire alarms you can set up that fire off a 12-guage shotgun blank. Nobody gets hurt, and this will send any sane perp, and many insane ones, bounding over your fence and off your property. There are all sorts of other handy tricks out there for creating multiple layers of protection, surveillance, and deterrence.

I'm all for home defense, guns or otherwise, but these things can be tricky. Not only from a legal perspective, but do you really want to be carry the weight on your shoulders when you blow off half some guy's face in the middle of an adrenaline-fueled confrontation...and then find out he was some boozed up 14-year-old kid going through a phase of really stupid choices? Is being "in the right" really going to leave you sleeping better at night after that?

I doubt it.

Sure, arm yourself, but if you can deter them from getting into the house in the first place, or use other creative means of scaring them off before they get that far, all the better.

A good dog will also weed out 98% of all potential burglars (stat obviously pulled out of my ass).

[Sherman]

Dogs are pretty good for hearing invaders and making noise. You will have an early warning system. In Mexico, dogs are pretty popular. When you walk down a sidewalk, the dogs barking sound like they are going to rip your throat out at any moment. Chihuahuas have good ears and make noise. Or you can team up a Chihuahua with a Pit bull. The Chihuahua hears the noise first and tips off his buddy the Pit bull.

Also, in America doors are laughably flimsy. It amazes me that people go through all the effort to get a gun, but they don't even secure their doors so that someone just can't give a kick and knock it down. All my doors have a separate door outside of it made of iron bars so that it can't be kicked down. The windows are secured with iron bars.

Having an invader in your house is a situation where you are at your most vulnerable, especially if you were sleeping, and you have to assume that someone crazy enough to break into your house at night is extremely dangerous and an immediate threat to your life that needs to be terminated without further analysis.


   

[The PerSev]

(08-22-2017 03:33 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

Google around and you can find tripwire alarms you can set up that fire off a 12-guage shotgun blank. Nobody gets hurt, and this will send any sane perp, and many insane ones, bounding over your fence and off your property. There are all sorts of other handy tricks out there for creating multiple layers of protection, surveillance, and deterrence.

I'm all for home defense, guns or otherwise, but these things can be tricky. Not only from a legal perspective, but do you really want to be carry the weight on your shoulders when you blow off half some guy's face in the middle of an adrenaline-fueled confrontation...and then find out he was some boozed up 14-year-old kid going through a phase of really stupid choices? Is being "in the right" really going to leave you sleeping better at night after that?

I doubt it.

Sure, arm yourself, but if you can deter them from getting into the house in the first place, or use other creative means of scaring them off before they get that far, all the better.

A good dog will also weed out 98% of all potential burglars (stat obviously pulled out of my ass).

Exactly. Good post.

Burglary or home invasion is not generally a "targeted" crime. That is, the burglar is not looking to hurt you, ColSpanker, specifically. He's just looking for a score. And most burglars are not professional career criminals, like the mob associated crews, who meticulously plan and execute robberies with finesse and skill. Mostly they are junkies looking for fast money for their habbits. They don't have the patience and know-how for complicated stuff.

So it's all about deterrence. Make your house seem like not such an easy target. You don't even need to get a dog, just get one of those "beware of dog" signs. Leave out a big dog chain in a conspicuous place. Put a dish outside of your door with some dog food in it. Leave a pair of construction shoes outside your door, it will look like you just came home from work and took them off.

Things of that nature. Even if that burglar returns and remembers that that stuff wasn't there the last time, it will signal to him that you caught the play and are now aware of him. He'll go looking for an easier score.

[PapayaTapper]

(08-22-2017 04:40 PM)The PerSev Wrote:  

(08-22-2017 03:33 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

Google around and you can find tripwire alarms you can set up that fire off a 12-guage shotgun blank. Nobody gets hurt, and this will send any sane perp, and many insane ones, bounding over your fence and off your property. There are all sorts of other handy tricks out there for creating multiple layers of protection, surveillance, and deterrence.

I'm all for home defense, guns or otherwise, but these things can be tricky. Not only from a legal perspective, but do you really want to be carry the weight on your shoulders when you blow off half some guy's face in the middle of an adrenaline-fueled confrontation...and then find out he was some boozed up 14-year-old kid going through a phase of really stupid choices? Is being "in the right" really going to leave you sleeping better at night after that?

I doubt it.

Sure, arm yourself, but if you can deter them from getting into the house in the first place, or use other creative means of scaring them off before they get that far, all the better.

A good dog will also weed out 98% of all potential burglars (stat obviously pulled out of my ass).

Exactly. Good post.

Burglary or home invasion is not generally a "targeted" crime. That is, the burglar is not looking to hurt you, ColSpanker, specifically. He's just looking for a score. And most burglars are not professional career criminals, like the mob associated crews, who meticulously plan and execute robberies with finesse and skill. Mostly they are junkies looking for fast money for their habbits. They don't have the patience and know-how for complicated stuff.

So it's all about deterrence. Make your house seem like not such an easy target. You don't even need to get a dog, just get one of those "beware of dog" signs. Leave out a big dog chain in a conspicuous place. Put a dish outside of your door with some dog food in it. Leave a pair of construction shoes outside your door, it will look like you just came home from work and took them off.

Things of that nature. Even if that burglar returns and remembers that that stuff wasn't there the last time, it will signal to him that you caught the play and are now aware of him. He'll go looking for an easier score.

That was my point earlier: burglary and home invasion are two completely different animals. The majority of burglars believe no one is home. That mindset is "I hope I can get in and out without anyone seeing me"

Home invasion on the other hand is some one knowingly entering a house when is occupied. That takes an entirely different and far more nefarious intent. Either "I dont give a fuck who's home" or "I know who's home and I'm fucking going in anyway" is way more dangerous

In this case knowing which it was makes all the difference in preparation. If there was no way the guy OP caught on video could think the house was empty then, Id really look at beefing up security as well as a firearm...but thats just me

[Kona]

Top five things people breaking into a house are looking for: Drugs, Cash, Guns, Jewellery, Electronics.

When I first got my house years ago, I had a few break-ins. There was a good size vagabond encampment near me, and they were all drug users.

This place is now a fortress. I had a professional look it over. The multiple layers is key. I have a rock wall with a coded gate, and a fence on the beach side. Many motion lights and cameras and an alarm system.

Interestingly, window treatments are important. Most people break in when they see something grabbable.

Another important thing to remember is that if your house is too hard to get into, that can make it too hard to get out. As tough and cool as it sounds to say "I'll catch those bastards and shoot them" you actually want people out faster then they entered. You don't want to be trapped in your house with a method addict.no way.

Aloha!

[PuppetMaster]

(08-22-2017 07:32 PM)Kona Wrote:  

Top five things people breaking into a house are looking for: Drugs, Cash, Guns, Jewellery, Electronics.

When I first got my house years ago, I had a few break-ins. There was a good size vagabond encampment near me, and they were all drug users.

This place is now a fortress. I had a professional look it over. The multiple layers is key. I have a rock wall with a coded gate, and a fence on the beach side. Many motion lights and cameras and an alarm system.

Interestingly, window treatments are important. Most people break in when they see something grabbable.

Another important thing to remember is that if your house is too hard to get into, that can make it too hard to get out. As tough and cool as it sounds to say "I'll catch those bastards and shoot them" you actually want people out faster then they entered. You don't want to be trapped in your house with a method addict.no way.

Aloha!

How about dogs and a biometric security system? Would that help?

[ColSpanker]

First of all, I want to thank everyone who responded. I wasn't sure if this was the right place on the forum to talk about my attempted home invader, but it appears it was.
There were so many good responses. I will address best of the lot-
The Black Knight: I am looking into every option. Don't have a fence around the property, never felt the need. There is a police station not far away, always thought would deter the crooks. It appears this time it didn't.
Number One bummer: Thanks for the map, I'm sure others will find it of great use. I see my state is in the dark green, don't know what difference it will make in the long run.
Going Strong: The bear trap is tempting, but would land me in jail. Maybe if the SHTF.
Sherman: All those bars remind me of the townhouses I see in Philly.There is a reason I don't live there, besides the high taxes.
PapayaTapper: I don't know why the perp picked my house. I suspect the "For Sale" sign out front and the lack of lights had something to do with it. All the other houses on my streets keep their exterior lights on at night, now I will do the same.
Beyond Borders: Good point. I know I would have no issue eliminating a burglar in my house, but who wants to live somewhere where that's happened? Glad to see you back, BTW.
So right now, I weigh the options. I need to buy the biggest, meanest dog I can find or a Walther P38. I'll let you know what I decide.

[Sidney Crosby]

I'm not sure on your brand of camera system but you may be able to make your system ring when it detects motion. On mine the recorder will ring with motion and you can adjust the sensitivity.

Some bright LED motion lights might be a good idea if you don't have them.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Surprisingly wise and level headed advice here. The Dude abides.

[polar]

There are more threads on protecting your home around here if you do some searching around. Baphomet had one.

[Jetset]

(08-22-2017 04:30 AM)Hypno Wrote:  

The bottom line is you can use deadly force only in self defense of life, not property. If you shoot an intruder in the back even in a castle doctrine state you likely will be charged with homicide.

The nuance here is that burglary is often treated as a "forcible felony" along with robbery, rape, and murder, even when the underlying felony behind the break-in was only a property crime. You come downstairs in your own home with your dick hanging out and are surprised by a stranger rummaging through your medicine cabinet in the dark, it's very reasonable for you to think that you're about to be stabbed.

What you said is right-on, though.

- OP should realize that there is a chance he will be handcuffed, simply because someone is dead and they have an obligation to be thorough. He might even be prosecuted just to put the facts before a jury and let them decide. If he can avoid all of this, that's the best. If he can't, he will need to stay calm and respectful to the police even when he's in the back of a patrol car.

- OP should not try to detain the intruder, chase them, or attack them if they are breaking off the burglary and fleeing.

- OP should not try to make the scene "look good" after the fact. The police will notice, and they'll be pissed.

- Shut up. Don't admit that you killed the intruder, describe circumstances that might suggest you had planned for this or had an alternative, tell them you were drunk or in a panic or anything that might suggest you were not totally reasonable or can have your credibility destroyed on the witness stand. Like Hypno said, "I thought he was going to kill me. I want to cooperate but can't make any other statements until I've spoken to my attorney."

Most of all, OP should go ahead and talk to a good attorney, preferably one who has a good working relationship with the DA.