[Cr33pin]

[Suits]

(08-12-2017 11:14 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

cascadecombo Wrote:

Yes, you can in fact. When they are far weaker than you are you can quite easily refuse to participate.

A man who refuses to participate in identity politics gets thrown into political identity groups by other people. Every. Single. Time.

You're a Muslim, or a White bigot, or a Latino, or a Christian, because others declare you to be so. Saying, "Dude, I hate politics so much that I've never even voted!" isn't going to remove the political identity you've been assigned.

Identity politics only has power if it results in action.

If the vast majority of people refuse to take actions despite the propaganda dispensed by the instigators, they have no power and nothing of concern will ever come of it.

If your fears lead you to participate in a Nazi leaning protest, then you've most likely granted power to the instigators.

If you truly believe that participating in a Nazi leaning protest is the correct moral action, then by all means, you should. It's your democratic right.

But doing so because you believe in the wisdom of "picking a side," even if you are not fully onboard with the true beliefs of that movement, is very foolish.

[Rush87]

(08-12-2017 10:49 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 01:48 PM)zigZag Wrote:  

...

No. This rally was organized from what i'm saying by richard spencer. Features hitler speeches and nazi imagery.

yes 63 million and they will be distancing themselves from anyone who was even close to this rally. Even trump was quick to distance himself. What you don't understand is that you don't win by putting yourself on an island.

Old conservatism is literally dying out with the boomers, and if they want to vote left because a bunch of kids marched with Nazi banners then fuck it, let's just cut to the shooting phase.

A very loud, very prominent sub section of baby boomers have a lot to answer for regarding the rise of the left. This is the generation that got wealthy off the back of their parents [Many of whom were war heroes].

They had free university education, a once in a lifetime opportunity at a property market which has since inflated and made them millions, and a chance to use their prosperity to continue the rise of the west, just like their parents helped to kickstart.

Instead, they gave rise to feminism, they pandered to the left, and now, instead of using their power to get their nations back on track, they are doubling down, raising fucked up kids, and actively seeking the fall of the west from their gated compounds.

These people live and breathe white guilt, ignoring the fact that the other 80% of baby boomers missed their winning lottery ticket. What I am seeing first hand, my parents, their friends [Some formerly leftist] getting red pilled hard, late in life. Make no mistake, these people are a sleeping giant and they're just starting to wake.

A decade past and a few Nazi banners would have easily been enough for them to distance away from a group, but it's getting to a stage where these people don't give two shits. It's getting to a stage where being labelled 'x' due to a few small outliers doesn't even phase them, and once this becomes a majority consensus, the left have a huge problem on their hands.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(08-12-2017 03:38 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

...
Imagine if this rally had been done by Christians; organized with Cross imagery, asking for fair treatment for Whites. Then the antifa comes in and attacks White Christians. That would have been fantastic optics. Instead we now have to defend vile and repugnant people's first amendment rights.
...

Wasted march, wasted opportunity.

You're normally the last person I'd want to contradict, S, but what planet are you on?

"Imagine if..."

Yeah, you'd have to have an imagination, and a pretty fucking good one at that. You think that 1000 people got together that morning and took an informal vote about whether to march for Christendom or White Nationalism? "Looks like WN edged out Christendom by three votes. Get out your nazi flags, lads."

No, the reason that 1000 people were out there marching for WN instead of 10,000 marching for Christendom was that the Christians of America are largely cucked softcocks with, as AB put it, a persecution fetish. And by largely I mean 99%.

It wasn't a "wasted opportunity" because the opportunity for Christendom to march in solidarity of it's values never existed. Their values are to don the gimp mask and whimper with pleasure every time Master brings the cane across their ass. This is the fundamental reason that Europe is being overrun with hostile muslim invaders with little to no opposition whatsoever, and what pitiful opposition is being mounted isn't coming from the Christians. In fact the Christians are speeding their own execution date.

Personally I'm starting to think that the conditions that led to the Christian Crusades no longer exist. Violence was a fact of life back in that era, and by necessity scripture had to accommodate that reality. But now that Christians have raised three generations without the threat of being genocided they no longer respect natural law, and as such have relegated themselves to extinction.

So for the timebeing anyone that doesn't want to go the way of the dodo has little choice but to put the Bible aside and join the ranks of the people willing to actually fight for their survival. That might be Constututionalists or White Nationalists or Fascists or Secessionists or Confederates but damn sure you're going to find your way to the cattle cars before the Christians ride to the rescue.

It never ceases to amaze me that last century the Communists genocided millions upon millions of ethnic and class criminals, but for some reason the only thing a lot of Westerners think is on the line this century are unfavourable hiring laws and a hostile judiciary.

Get your head out of the clouds, people. This one is for all the marbles.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(08-12-2017 11:29 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 11:14 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

cascadecombo Wrote:

Yes, you can in fact. When they are far weaker than you are you can quite easily refuse to participate.

A man who refuses to participate in identity politics gets thrown into political identity groups by other people. Every. Single. Time.

You're a Muslim, or a White bigot, or a Latino, or a Christian, because others declare you to be so. Saying, "Dude, I hate politics so much that I've never even voted!" isn't going to remove the political identity you've been assigned.

Identity politics only has power if it results in action.
...

Sure. The people who assign your identity will take action against you.

Whether you resist or not is up to you.

[Suits]

(08-12-2017 11:45 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 11:29 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 11:14 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

cascadecombo Wrote:

Yes, you can in fact. When they are far weaker than you are you can quite easily refuse to participate.

A man who refuses to participate in identity politics gets thrown into political identity groups by other people. Every. Single. Time.

You're a Muslim, or a White bigot, or a Latino, or a Christian, because others declare you to be so. Saying, "Dude, I hate politics so much that I've never even voted!" isn't going to remove the political identity you've been assigned.

Identity politics only has power if it results in action.
...

Sure. The people who assign your identity will take action against you.

Whether you resist or not is up to you.

There are legitimate means of protecting against that and fearful responses that will simply escalate the problem and make you just as evil as they.

One example of a legitimate mechanism designed to balance the evils caused by human fears is the principle of never allowing the same person to be the judge, jury and executioner.

While this principle isn't always used as well as it could be in the real world (with a powerful state, there is the risk of all three being essentially the same entity), the correct response to seeing evil in all forms in our world is to create, promote and support institutions that create balance and minimalize the likelihood of people simply being overcome by their fears and lashing out in violence.

When you get to that stage, you don't have a society anymore.

[MMX2010]

Suits Wrote:

If the vast majority of people refuse to take actions despite the propaganda dispensed by the instigators, they have no power and nothing of concern will ever come of it.

Literally every media organization, Hollywood movie, and television show promotes identity politics. Therefore, expecting "the vast majority of people" to reject identity politics is impossible.

[fokker]

The guys at Occidental Dissent disavowed Trump again following his remarks about the event: https://www.pscp.tv/w/1MnxnmyRLjOJO

[Suits]

(08-13-2017 12:06 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Suits Wrote:

If the vast majority of people refuse to take actions despite the propaganda dispensed by the instigators, they have no power and nothing of concern will ever come of it.

Literally every media organization, Hollywood movie, and television show promotes identity politics. Therefore, expecting "the vast majority of people" to reject identity politics is impossible.

That doesn't make it morally right to be a part of the problem rather than the solution.

[MMX2010]

Vox Day nailed all points in his latest periscope.

I'm giving these points in my order, which isn't his order, but I'm faithfully representing them.

It's only 32 minutes long, and he didn't get side tracked as usual, so I highly recommend listening to it.


1. Richard Spencer is a bit naive. He learned that getting punched in the face required him to have bodyguards around him at all times. But he didn't realize that the excellent Night March he led would result in police escalation from the other side. After Spencer escalated, he should've known his enemies would escalate.

2. Richard Spencer chose Charlottesville because he went to college there, but if he researched the policies of the Governor of Virginia and the Mayor of Charlottesville, he would've realized they were hard-core liberals. Richard Spencer was able to have a great rally in Texas a couple of months ago, but that's because Texas is an anti-liberal state.

3. The police are neither on the side of ANTIFA, nor on the side of the Alt-right. They're on the side of the establishment, so the Alt-right should plan their gatherings in anti-Liberal cities.

4. The Alt-right, like many Conservatives, love to talk big about fighting, but hardly any of them are prepared to fight. Today, the Alt-right found out that the cultural war is a real fucking war. Those who wish to fight it will train and become stronger; those who don't shouldn't even bother showing up.

5. God-Emperor Trump's response was perfect, because he avoided all the media traps.

6. The Night March was excellent optics, and the torches were excellent, too. Night time is better than day time.

7. Liberals are stuck in 1965-Selma, since their every message is an echo from that time period, but the Alt-Reich is stuck in 1940-Germany, which is why they're losing.

8. The Alt-right is inevitable because Generation Z has experienced the most diversity, and is, therefore, least inclined to support it. The Old Boomers who love diversity are dying off. But this battle will only be won with New Symbols created by the Alt-right being passed down: no old symbols will be effective.

9. Jack Posobiec's excellent Anti-Google marches will be symbolically better, better organized, and more peacefully conducted.

-------

Suits Wrote:

That doesn't make it morally right to be a part of the problem rather than the solution.

There is no solution that involves the rejection or non-participation in identity politics.

[AnonymousBosch]

(08-12-2017 11:40 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

It wasn't a "wasted opportunity" because the opportunity for Christendom to march in solidarity of it's values never existed. Their values are to don the gimp mask and whimper with pleasure every time Master brings the cane across their ass. This is the fundamental reason that Europe is being overrun with hostile muslim invaders with little to no opposition whatsoever, and what pitiful opposition is being mounted isn't coming from the Christians. In fact the Christians are speeding their own execution date.

I remember back in 2014 they were saying 67% of Christians in Australia support Gay Marriage. The other day, most of the major religious leaders in Australia wrote a letter condemning the government for not giving marriage equality to the gays. There's an interfaith community of Jewish, Catholic and Muslim Religious Leaders currently fighting for gay marriage rights: all of them minorities (arab, jewish, asian, african, faggy older men), every one of them with Dead Eyes. As I've said before, the Catholic School near me, run by woman with hair cut above her chin, mentions 'Diversity' in the first line of their their school's curriculum, 'respecting differences' in the second, and 'God' finally gets a look in in paragraph four.

I say we double down and demand every Catholic show their tolerance and faith by having their children receive a injection of blood from a random gay man. I'm sure /pol/ could meme something up easily enough. I'm convinced they'd do it: they really are fucking useless as human beings, let alone as defenders of their (selective) faith.

[AnonymousBosch]

(08-13-2017 12:03 AM)Suits Wrote:  

correct response to seeing evil in all forms in our world is to create, promote and support institutions that create balance and minimalize the likelihood of people simply being overcome by their fears and lashing out in violence.

Except every institution becomes inevitably-converged by Socialism.

Even Capitalism itself.

[Frank Sicosus]

(08-13-2017 12:28 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Richard Spencer .... didn't realize that the excellent Night March...

The Night March was excellent optics, and the torches were excellent, too. Night time is better than day time.

That aspect was specifically and especially the most retarded of all of it. In fact just eliminating that torch thing would have done wonders.

[Suits]

(08-13-2017 12:28 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Suits Wrote:

That doesn't make it morally right to be a part of the problem rather than the solution.

There is no solution that involves the rejection or non-participation in identity politics.

Sure there is.

[MMX2010]

(08-13-2017 12:38 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(08-13-2017 12:28 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Suits Wrote:

That doesn't make it morally right to be a part of the problem rather than the solution.

There is no solution that involves the rejection or non-participation in identity politics.

Sure there is.

There was in earlier times, before identity politics saturated everything. But there are no longer any political solutions that aren't based in identity politics.

[MMX2010]

Frank Wrote:

That aspect was specifically and especially the most retarded of all of it. In fact just eliminating that torch thing would have done wonders.

You're advocating that they render themselves invisible in the dark, and didn't peacefully surround the out-numbered, melting-down ANTIFA protesters, because why?

[Suits]

(08-13-2017 12:47 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

(08-13-2017 12:38 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(08-13-2017 12:28 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Suits Wrote:

That doesn't make it morally right to be a part of the problem rather than the solution.

There is no solution that involves the rejection or non-participation in identity politics.

Sure there is.

There was in earlier times, before identity politics saturated everything. But there are no longer any political solutions that aren't based in identity politics.

Done.

[Frank Sicosus]

(08-13-2017 12:53 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Frank Wrote:

That aspect was specifically and especially the most retarded of all of it. In fact just eliminating that torch thing would have done wonders.

You're advocating that they render themselves invisible in the dark, and didn't peacefully surround the out-numbered, melting-down ANTIFA protesters, because why?

Yeah, they decided specifically on flaming torches for safety visibility purposes, and not any other reason at all.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(08-13-2017 12:10 AM)Suits Wrote:  

...
That doesn't make it morally right to be a part of the problem rather than the solution.

Bringing a water pistol to a fire in a tyre yard when nobody else is bothering to turn up doesn't make you part of the solution. It makes you suicidal.

Suits, sometimes a society runs past the point of no return. Are you going to tell me that the Europeans have any chance at a peaceful return to the apex of their civilisation?

It is what it is. Hands are going to get dirty, but patience is fast wearing thin toward those that sit on the sidelines morally preening while honest men deal with the reality of the situation. Trump is not charting a trajectory toward M'ingAGA. Currently he's charting a trajectory towards impeachment by the deep state.

What then? Protests? But only as long as not a single nazi shows up?

p.s. @Suits regarding voting with your feet and moving to asia: That's an option, but not one I'd personally be proud to advocate for. If you want to talk about morals then "run away" does not morally trump "stay and fight".

[MMX2010]

Frank Wrote:

Yeah, they decided specifically on flaming torches for safety visibility purposes, and not any other reason at all.

If you're not the target of Richard Spencer's tactical attack, then why should your dismissal of Richard Spencer's tactical attack be taken seriously?

@Suits - We've beaten to death, as a forum, the decision to abandon America. Bringing it up in this thread isn't useful. Leave it in the Travel or Game section.

[Rush87]

(08-13-2017 12:29 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 11:40 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

It wasn't a "wasted opportunity" because the opportunity for Christendom to march in solidarity of it's values never existed. Their values are to don the gimp mask and whimper with pleasure every time Master brings the cane across their ass. This is the fundamental reason that Europe is being overrun with hostile muslim invaders with little to no opposition whatsoever, and what pitiful opposition is being mounted isn't coming from the Christians. In fact the Christians are speeding their own execution date.

I remember back in 2014 they were saying 67% of Christians in Australia support Gay Marriage. The other day, most of the major religious leaders in Australia wrote a letter condemning the government for not giving marriage equality to the gays. There's an interfaith community of Jewish, Catholic and Muslim Religious Leaders currently fighting for gay marriage rights: all of them minorities (arab, jewish, asian, african, faggy older men), every one of them with Dead Eyes. As I've said before, the Catholic School near me, run by woman with hair cut above her chin, mentions 'Diversity' in the first line of their their school's curriculum, 'respecting differences' in the second, and 'God' finally gets a look in in paragraph four.

I say we double down and demand every Catholic show their tolerance and faith by having their children receive a injection of blood from a random gay man. I'm sure /pol/ could meme something up easily enough. I'm convinced they'd do it: they really are fucking useless as human beings, let alone as defenders of their (selective) faith.

Have you been to mass lately in Australia? It's a complete bastardisation of the faith. I come from a very large, very Catholic family, and have seen first hand what was once rock solid faith replaced in many cases by left wing parroting. I.E: Liberalism first, faith second.

It wasn't until I stepped out of my regular parish that I began to realise that Liberalism first, faith second was actually the modus operandi for many of the Catholic churches across Sydney.

[Frank Sicosus]

(08-13-2017 01:13 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(08-13-2017 12:10 AM)Suits Wrote:  

...
That doesn't make it morally right to be a part of the problem rather than the solution.

Bringing a water pistol to a fire in a tyre yard when nobody else is bothering to turn up doesn't make you part of the solution. It makes you suicidal.

Suits, sometimes a society runs past the point of no return. Are you going to tell me that the Europeans have any chance at a peaceful return to the apex of their civilisation?

It is what it is. Hands are going to get dirty, but patience is fast wearing thin toward those that sit on the sidelines morally preening while honest men deal with the reality of the situation. Trump is not charting a trajectory toward M'ingAGA. Currently he's charting a trajectory towards impeachment by the deep state.

What then? Protests? But only as long as not a single nazi shows up?

"Hey, ok, yeah, there might be an errant Nazi here or there. And, alright, the events might be advertised with Nazi imagery theme posters. And yes there may be a chant here or there that has only ever been known to be used by Nazis.. but anyway get with the program, we don't have time for perfect messages"

Leonard sir, I only ask why this shitty (failure gauranteed) standard needs to be supported. The entire organisation and execution of this thing was done idiotically from start to finish.

If you believe the American society is collapsing then why not advocate for a fight back that has more than 0% chance of gathering support?

[MMX2010]

Frank Wrote:

If you believe the American society is collapsing then why not advocate for a fight back that has more than 0% chance of gathering support?

Because the types of people who ask these types of questions used to be the primary challenge to Progressivism from about 1980 until 2016.

These most powerful adversaries of Progressivism scored exactly zero victories against Progressivism - (I know this, because I have asked more than fifty True Conservatives this question on Twitter, and 95% of them don't attempt an answer. And the strongest answer I got was, "Paul Walker winning the governor's race against the Union opposition in Wisconsin.")

Despite scoring zero victories against Progressives, and despite seeing Donald Trump win a totally unexpected Presidency, these same True Conservatives want to dictate that Trump isn't really winning, and if only we followed this strategy...

Enough!

Trump's profligate immorality is the perfect slap in the face against Morally Preening Perfect Strategists With No Victories Against My Enemies (And No Sense of the Rules That Dictate 2017 Politics).

[Kona]

(08-13-2017 12:53 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Frank Wrote:

That aspect was specifically and especially the most retarded of all of it. In fact just eliminating that torch thing would have done wonders.

You're advocating that they render themselves invisible in the dark, and didn't peacefully surround the out-numbered, melting-down ANTIFA protesters, because why?

I think the citronella torches were to keep the bugs away as well as for lighting purposes.

And they were chanting "Blood and Soil" because blood is what the mosquitoes eat and soil in under the pavement they were walking on.

Aloha!

[Suits]

(08-13-2017 01:13 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Bringing a water pistol to a fire in a tyre yard when nobody else is bothering to turn up doesn't make you part of the solution. It makes you suicidal.

Suits, sometimes a society runs past the point of no return.

If the society is a burning tyre yard, then I can't possibly how you can argue that exposing yourself to the heat of the fire is the only moral obligation.

I don't see how anyone could convincingly argue that an individual has a moral obligation to anyone or anything other than children that he has created and responsibilities that he has freely taken on.

Any other belief is a simple crafting of a personal moral system to justify ones own lack of effort to pursue a better life for themselves and their children.

i.e. "I believe that things are so bad the only good option at this point is to throw in with people who proudly and freely take on the symbols of the Nazis, but simply immigrating somewhere else is immoral."

(08-13-2017 01:23 AM)Frank Sicosus Wrote:  

"Hey, ok, yeah, there might be an errant Nazi here or there. And, alright, the events might be advertised with Nazi imagery theme posters. And yes there may be a chant here or there that has only ever been known to be used by Nazis.. but anyway get with the program, we don't have time for perfect messages"

Leonard sir, I only ask why this shitty (failure gauranteed) standard needs to supported. The entire organisation and execution of this thing was done idiotically from start to finish.

If you believe the American society is collapsing then why not advocate for a fight back that has more than 0% chance of gathering support?

(08-13-2017 01:16 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

@Suits - We've beaten to death, as a forum, the decision to abandon America. Bringing it up in this thread isn't useful. Leave it in the Travel or Game section.