[Samseau]

My take:

1. Freedom of speech is still the #1 issue here. While I think Spencer is an opportunist who seeks power no matter what, and many of the WN ideas are false, the fact is why shouldn't these freaks be allowed to march? Co-sign with Scorpion. The fact that they are losing their first amendment protections, the fact that antfi were there unlawfully and nothing was done to them is the real story here.

2. The optics were indeed terrible when you use images of the worst sorts of racists imaginable. Nazi and KKK imagery is pathetic beyond words.

Imagine if this rally had been done by Christians; organized with Cross imagery, asking for fair treatment for Whites. Then the antifa comes in and attacks White Christians. That would have been fantastic optics. Instead we now have to defend vile and repugnant people's first amendment rights. The fact is, MANY of these WN's are no different than SJW's who will never listen or reason with you. They will tune you out or call you names. Go to WN boards and speak with them if you don't believe me.

3. The car accident, as far as I can tell, is the fault of the mayor. The mayor did not keep the city under control, and the mayor did not keep the streets open. One of the cars was surrounded by antifa, and reports are claiming the driver's car was being hit or somehow attacked, and either the guy panicked or just hated the antifa so much he went into a rage. The incident should have never happened had the mayor proper control of the city. The alt-right had permits to march, the antifa did not, and yet the mayor only targeted those with legal rights. In a just world the mayor should be replaced or jailed for the lack of control.

4. As for normies, they will see this, see all the craziness on both sides, and no one will come away with conclusions. They will shake their heads and wonder what the fuck is happening to America. No one is going to change their minds because of this.

Wasted march, wasted opportunity.

[Dusty]

(08-12-2017 03:35 PM)rpg Wrote:  

Looks like driver of Challenger was Antifa.

This may be the driver:

[rpg]

All media is calling for Trump to apologize for this while Obama sided with BLM and Antifa.

[MMX2010]

[url=https://twitter.com/johncardillo/status/896472350312484864][/url]

[MMX2010]

[url=https://twitter.com/NewtTrump/status/896455905901981696][/url]

[TheOllam]

I watched Cerno's live stream on this, excellent, y'all should check it out.

Come back 5 pages later, people triggered by "optics" smh.

The real protest is the Anti-Google "Gulag" but now we got the left/right echo chambers duking it out for attention, vaingloriously.

To Cerno's point: It's the curtailing of free speech that is leading to political violence. Free speech is paramount, these clashes are symptoms., aka how something looks

Thanks for sharing:

(08-12-2017 03:38 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

My take:

1. Freedom of speech is still the #1 issue here.

EXACTLY

(08-12-2017 01:44 PM)LEMONed IScream Wrote:  

Brazillian conservative intellectual Olavo de Carvalho (living in the US) has commented that he believes these "alt-right" people were indirectly paid by Soros to demonstrate.

(08-12-2017 02:12 PM)Traktor Wrote:  

[/url]

(08-12-2017 02:30 PM)Col. Tigh Wrote: [url=https://rooshvforum.network/post-1629885.html#pid1629885] 

I'm on team "fuck optics," but DM is reporting that someone plowed a Dodge Charger into a crowd of antifas.

Car plows into crowd at white nationalist rally: Driver 'intentionally' accelerates into counter-protesters and hits up to 20 people as riot cops use tear gas to stop violent clashes and a state of emergency is declared
Seems antistrategic to me.

[MMX2010]

[url=https://twitter.com/NewtTrump/status/896439040479768576/video/1][/url]

Another angle of the car crash. The car had accelerated from a stop, to full speed, and was at full speed for about three seconds before crash. I heard no brakes being applied at impact.

[MMX2010]

[/url]

So much for the effectiveness of Trump's denunciation for the sake of optics.

[url=https://twitter.com/chucktodd/status/896457703371001856]

[Dusty]

Lol, these pricks can't catch a break.

[/url]

[url=https://twitter.com/johncardillo/status/896475632296767492]

[Repo]

This is why I can't associate with these people. I hate antifa as much as anyone else, but Nazi flags and symbolism, really?

[Silver_Tube]

I was half tempted to attend this thing, given its proximity to my home. I didn't go because of the risk to career and relationships that would happen if I was discovered. While I agree that we're past concerning ourselves over optics, im not ready to put my success at risk.

[AnonymousBosch]

(08-12-2017 12:56 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

[url=https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/896420822780444672][/url]

Some people, like AnonymousBosch, will be saddened by this Tweet. But I'll recall Vox Day's admonition that "it takes two election cycles, not one".

Why on earth would I be saddened by exactly what I'd expect? I've been saying since February it's obvious we're on our own.

Trump and Pence are only here to allow the continued existence of the Nation State of Israel, which Academia, Progressive Jews, the United Nations and the Democrat Party have abandoned as an allowable construct over the last eight years. They need the mass support of American Conservative Christians, who always seem to overlook that whole 'breaking of the Covenant with the Jewish people' thing, and consistently have terrible judgment in Religious Leaders. Hence, the whole 'Trump was chosen by God' PsyOp that was seeded mid-last year.

Israel doesn't care if Antifa, (Atheists who are their own gods), and the Alt-Right, (worshippers of a Satanic 'Elder God'), kill each other, so I don't expect Trump to care either, which is why I've warned the forum to dial back on (((certain types of /pol/-influenced speech))). Wave the flag for Zion, like a good little Conservative Christian, and we'll be allowed to continue to exist. Keep pushing (((real-talk))) on here, and when Trump cracks down on 'extremism' - which he will - so will go the RVF.

[rotekz]

[url=https://twitter.com/Simon_Rader/status/896482477170143234][/url]

This is possibly a police helicopter that has gone down.

[weambulance]

The driver was not Joel V-weirdspelling, looks like.

http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/137130888

[nomadbrah]

(08-12-2017 04:04 PM)Repo Wrote:  

This is why I can't associate with these people. I hate antifa as much as anyone else, but Nazi flags and symbolism, really?

Who is that loser, we need an ID. Could be he was a provocateur like the two sieg heiling jews at the Spencer event in the beginning of the year.

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/23/man-who-...-problems/

Quote:

here’s another aspect of the picture, which was taken inside of a restaurant where attendees of a conference sponsored by alt-right activist Richard Spencer had gathered for dinner, which isn’t widely known, however: One of the men in the picture is actually Jewish.

[RexImperator]

Quote:

Nazi flags and symbolism, really?

Vox Day calls them "Alt-Retards".

[Repo]

Delete

[nomadbrah]

None of these "volkish" groups use the Swastika, they use various runes, mostly runes or the black sun or similar. None use swastikas that's for sure.

I really doubt any legit right winger would use a swastika. This guy looks older so it is possible he is a (((stormfront))) type nazi, but just as likely a provocateur.

Someone find me some of these nazis?

One picture of swastika? That's all there is, do we even know it is from this march?

[nomadbrah]

(08-12-2017 04:43 PM)Repo Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 04:31 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 04:04 PM)Repo Wrote:  

This is why I can't associate with these people. I hate antifa as much as anyone else, but Nazi flags and symbolism, really?

Who is that loser, we need an ID. Could be he was a provocateur like the two sieg heiling jews at the Spencer event in the beginning of the year.

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/23/man-who-...-problems/

Quote:

here’s another aspect of the picture, which was taken inside of a restaurant where attendees of a conference sponsored by alt-right activist Richard Spencer had gathered for dinner, which isn’t widely known, however: One of the men in the picture is actually Jewish.

Possible, but doesn't explain the Nazi eagles.

Or the people in KKK robes:

FAKE NEWS

"This July 8, 2017 photo shows members of the KKK escorted by police past a large group of protesters during a KKK rally in Charlottesville, Va"

Damn people, are you all just doing the enemies bidding and spreading fake news because of your own preconceived notions.

[Repo]

Sorry didn't catch date will delete.

[MMX2010]

[url=https://twitter.com/NumbersMuncher/status/896487353837072384][/url]

Another blue check mark arguing that Trump's denunciation was insincere.

[nomadbrah]

(08-12-2017 04:58 PM)Repo Wrote:  

Sorry didn't catch date will delete.

That's ok, Fox News used it to illustrate today's march for the exact purpose you got taken by.

[aeroektar]

The optics of this do look bad, and people like Spencer and the Alt Right are about as helpful to our cause as McCain and the republicucks.

But what did Obama and the left do when people on the right started pointing out his support for black lives matter after they had called for the death of cops, killed cops, attacked innocent civilians and destroyed cities.

Obama ignored us, the left ignored us, the media ignored us.

FUCK AN APOLOGY.

Trump shouldn't even acknowledge this any further.

The left can suck our dicks, fuck their concern, fuck their feelings, fuck their fake outrage. Let them cry.

[Repo]

(08-12-2017 05:01 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 04:58 PM)Repo Wrote:  

Sorry didn't catch date will delete.

That's ok, Fox News used it to illustrate today's march for the exact purpose you got taken by.

Yeah apparently there was a KKK rally at the same place a month ago, so some of those pics came up in my search.

[scorpion]

It's funny how many guys will mock the left for being "triggered" by every little thing, but then themselves will be absolutely TRIGGERED and HORRIFIED by some random guy holding a Nazi flag. He's holding a Nazi flag. Yeah, so what? Who cares? Is he an agent provocateur? Maybe. Who cares? Is he an actual Nazi with a Hitler shrine in his house? Maybe. Who cares?

People need to stop freaking out about the optics of these things, as if these events are elaborate Broadway stage productions where every minor detail must be carefully managed and made perfect, lest Boomer McBoomcuck from Des Moines, Iowa be turned off by the spectacle. This is not a stage play. This is not a game. This is not a LARPing event. This is a low-grade street war. This is the beginning of organized political violence between left and right that is only going to escalate in the years to come, regardless of what Trump does or does not do (but which will intensify by an order of magnitude almost overnight if the Deep State moves overtly to remove Trump in some manner).

As I said before, these type of demonstrations are not intended to appeal to moderates and voters. These are a fireworks show meant to attract the radicals. Chaos and controversy are desirable. The Alt-Right is the new counter-culture, and if the Alt-Right is to expand it must capture the imagination of the youth. You can't do that by being stodgy and lecturing everyone about the "negative public relations implications of National Socialist regalia". Fuck off with that. That's not a message that resonates with sixteen year olds. Based sixteen year olds (our target market) love nothing more than pissing off their parents, teachers and most of all shitting all over their self-righteous, approval-hungry, brown-nosing peers, who in 2017 are all invariably hardline SJWs. We don't want or need moderates. We want that hard-nosed few who are willing to go out on a limb. You don't attract those people with timidity and a tone of moderation. Imagine if instead of the Marine Corps billing themselves as, "The Few, The Proud", they instead billed themselves as, "The generously inclusive: everyone welcome." Not exactly the message that appeals to the sort of man who makes a good Marine, is it? The principle here is this same: tripping all over yourself to appear moderate is not the right approach if you want to attract young, passionate fighters to your banner.

Most people don't understand what's going on here, just like most people didn't understand Trump's rise to power. There are social and historical forces at work here that are beyond the ability of any single man or group to control. Events will play out and each side will gain and lose ground, but the historical forces are inexorable and cannot be suppressed. There is only one way that this ends. There is only one way these things ever end.