To start, I think there's some cultural context here that's playing a role in her behavior. If this was an American girl, I can see why you might want to nuke her. But when we're talking about a culture where traditional roles prevail (am I overassuming here?), and especially if she is young and short on dating experience, I would personally factor that heavily into the situation.
If you're not from her culture (just checked, and it looks like you're American), I'd even further multiply the weight of that effect. This affects not only her expectations but any intercultural dating interaction will feature what seems like the occaisional rude or weird behavior.
I don't know much about Israeli culture, but these days if I'm dealing with a woman from a culture that expects men to bring the cash, and she expects to act more traditionally feminine as a result, I'm happy to just treat her like the other men in her culture do. I support traditional gender roles, and they come at a price for both men and women that I'm willing to pay.
This is one of the reasons the women I date in Asia, for instance, tend to be women that haven't dated any other foreigners. To expand on this example, a man who often finds himself splitting the bill (or passing tip responsibility) with dates in many Asian countries is likely dating with women who are rich, who've worked around a lot of foreigners, who have been educated in the West, or who have simply taken a lot of white pete. Take that as you will.
Keeping those asides in mind, here's where I think
you yourself went wrong and some paradigms that you ought to take into account.
Quote: (08-06-2017 04:44 AM)bruce_almighty Wrote:
We went on to proceed with my usual next phase of the date routine where I take her to the swing in the garden to make out.
On the way there she started asking why I offered her to pay the tip.
I said that that's the best formula I've found in my experience. I don't mind paying the tip and I don't mind not paying it. But this way a girl feels like I didn't buy her yet I was still a gentleman.
She started giving me loads of shit about how a man should pay everything on first dates. How the fact that I picked her up from the house gave me "extra points", and she wants to help me succeed with my dating life.
At this point I stopped walking and called her out:
"You are 25. I'm 30. I know what works for me".
This was annoying behavior on her part, even taking cultural differences into consideration, and you had a right, possibly even an obligation, to your initial reaction. That being said, it seems like you could have left the tension here, but then you drug it out and let it linger...That's where I see the real pettiness appearing.
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We carried on to the swing but by then the atmosphere was ruined. She asked me if her remarks had shut me down and I told her she was rude saying all that.
She was trying to make amends here. You can already see how she's insecure about her remarks and is subconsciously pointing the finger at herself.
You should have just shrugged it off and changed the topic at this point. And then gone on with your usual seduction style. I imagine the tension would have quickly passed.
Don't get me wrong - I'm sure we've all made the mistake of taking a woman's antics too personally. I know I have. But there's no real reason here to prove how right you were. Reiterating that she was rude was just your way of pouting about her behavior and dragging it out until she made a big enough gesture to appease you.
That was a mistake. She knows you think she was being rude - she seems to have indirectly admitted it herself already.
If you weren't ready to let the interaction move past this awkward discussion, even with her attempts to do so, why were you even still hanging out with her at this point?
What have you done to move through the situation or move past it? Not only are you offended, but you're not taking the lead to untie this tangle you've gotten in, based on your description. She's behaved childishly, but there's no leadership here on your part either. It seems like you're just waiting for the situation to unravel itself so you can go and and shoot for the bang.
At this point, you should be exiting or letting it go. Rationally "talking it out" will lead nowhere.
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She partially apologized but kept holding frame saying she's still behind what she said.
She's trying to make amends again, but you're expecting a male apology rather than a female one.
As we all know, women are not men.
Sometimes a partial apology is all you're going to get out of her, especially while emotions are still running high. But any kind of apology on a woman's part generally means she knows she fucked up, and even if she doesn't think it, the fact that she's willing to take on blame is points in her favor, as far as I'm concerned.
She doesn't deserve a trophy for it or anything - but I think at this point she's at least earned an "okay, let's forget about it."
The real apology, whether verbal or nonverbal, whether done sincerely or just in an effort to make peace, generally manifests later on after she's had time to roll the interaction around in her mind more.
Then she'll generally take the initiative to be extra sweet to make up for it.
Don't forget the emotional nature of women, which manifests not only in how heated they get in the moment, unable to fully back down, but also how far they go to appease you once they do finally back down. Whether she still sees herself as right or wrong later on, she'll extend herself to close the gap if she wants to hold on to you.
And I would argue that this is how we should want women to act.
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At some point she said "I think I'm just making things worse when I keep talking.
She's lashing out a bit and guilt tripping you, sure....and I'm imagining a sour, pouty look on your face and a cold attitude.
But she's still leaving the door open for you to reassure her and say something to make her stay. That being said, it's at this point that I might just let her go rather than deal with it anymore too. It's gotten very uncomfortable now.
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I should go home" and she stormed away and took a taxi back home which cost her 5 times the fucking tip she had to pay.
Now she's most definitely pissed but more from your reaction to the matter and unwillingness to move forward than the matter itself. There wasn't much you could do at this stage to smooth things over and still hold onto your dignity.
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The next day she texted me in the morning saying she deeply apologizes and her remarks were totally out of place and she was just being naive.
What would you guys do in this case? would you swallow your pride and do what you have to do in order to get the notch? or would you call this cunt out like I did?
Boom.
This is EXACTLY what a woman will and should do. With time for her emotions to cool, for her to consider what a great guy you are, and for her to fully consider how she could have acted better, she is now ready to give the type of apology a man wants when he's annoyed or angry.
I say let it go. Accept her apology.
Get the bang and possibly even have a great time with her - just because she's an idiot in one situation doesn't necessarily mean she's going to continue being an idiot. Especially if she is particularly young and naive and/or influenced by her culture.
But the important part is she went home and she dwelled on her behavior, and even in lieu of your own poorly calibrated response and petty behavior, she's making an initiative to make amends for it...yet again.
I think a lot of guys who get involved in game think the alpha way is to never let a woman fuck up and do stupid shit. And if she does even once, next her. I've often made this mistake myself. As bachelors, we don't want to deal with a bunch of problems, and sure, often nothing is more powerful around women than having your boundaries.
But here's the thing.
All women will do and say stupid shit at some point. Even at the stages where you'd think they'd be trying harder to just impress you. They can't help it - they're emotional creatures.
The proper way to "train" them to be better is speak your mind, yes, but not from an emotional place, and not from a place that demands retribution on your terms and in your immediate "offended" timeframe. That type of more aggressive leadership will be a lot more possible in later stages of an actual "relationship," not on a first date. In these early stages, you just need to speak up long enough to let them know they're fucking up. Or at least get them to see that they'll have to change their perspective if they want to be around you, which I think you've done here, even if you overshot the delivery a bit.
No, you don't need to take shit from women to sleep with them. If she was going on throwing a fit without you even being together, I'd say tell her not to let the door hit her in the ass on the way out. But she's apologizing and accepting the blame.
If you don't give them the breathing room to apologize and improve after they screw things up, how can you expect them to ever behave better, for you or for any other man?
I say reward her for recognizing her mistake and trying to rectify by giving her the opportunity to hang again. Then bang the hell out of her.
It doesn't sound like you're looking for a relationship, but I will say this and try to relate it back to bad female behavior in general. Any relationship that lasts is going to take many many instances of you calling a woman out on her bullshit and bringing her around to the correct way of seeing things. Very few young females, even from old school cultures, are going to show up on your doorstep fully trained to behave the way she "should" or the way you want her to.
In fact, I've found that often the girls worth keeping around will test you MORE dramatically at first rather than less - the reason being that they subconsciously know their value and are looking for a man who is a) strong enough to stand up to them and b) willing to keep them around even when they fuck up (often a bachelor isn't, and that's fine). '
Here's some further reading that has influenced my thought process in this department if you're interested:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JV8...UTF8&psc=1
So, while obviously there are lines that should never be crossed, it's a constant process of guiding them back to the correct path. And it's a mistake to expect a fresh-out-of-the-box, perfectly well-behaved bitch from the get-go.
What does that have to do with you and your situation? Again, you don't seem to be looking for a relationship. But recognizing the above, I think it's good to cut some slack to your shorter term flings as well...as long as they seem to be getting on board the way you want them to when the dust settles. You'll be leaving a lot of puss on the table over petty differences if you don't, which is the last thing a carefree bachelor ought to be doing, and even fuck buddy situations will not be built without a few initial bumps along the way.
Of course, if she keeps it up and you're not interested in keeping her around anyways, not worth the trouble. Some girls really are just over-dramatic and impossible to deal with. I think in this case it's too soon to know if this is one of them.
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