Is there an image resizing function on this board? posting huge gifs on this board stretches the text width out so much it's difficult to read.
“Nothing is more useful than to look upon the world as it really is.”
Quote: (06-08-2017 03:56 PM)911 Wrote:
Is there an image resizing function on this board? posting huge gifs on this board stretches the text width out so much it's difficult to read.
Quote: (06-08-2017 05:43 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:
The storage issue with Solar goes away when you adapt your usage to fit in.
You use all your electricity during the day, heating, cooling, washing, cooking, pool pump, charge your car and batteries.
Just need house insulation to keep the daytimes cooling/heating in (or other thermal storage options)
At night it's just a small battery for lights, tv and a computer.
With adaption, we have the technology to make use of solar today.
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“I am speaking with confidence now. We have a solution now to adjust the intermittency of solar and wind energy that is no longer a technology challenge. Now it is an economic decision,” said Patrick Lee, Sempra Energy vice president for major project controls. “So installing a base load power plant is no longer your only option. You can now look at solar, wind and storage as alternatives, and still be able to manage the reliability of the grid. So that is the takeaway I would like you to have.”
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In those three years, not only have wind, solar and battery prices plunged. The software to control storage and the grid has also advanced.
Suddenly, there is software that can make grid adjustments and bring battery power online much, much faster. “We now have the ability to control the grid twenty times faster than you can blink your eye,” Lee said.
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According to Larsh Johnson, the chief technology officer of Stem, the company is paying 70 percent less for lithium-ion batteries than it was 18 months ago.
Quote: (06-09-2017 04:06 PM)speculator Wrote:
In order to accomplish that task, we must completely redesign our lifestyles and even then it is against our inner biological clocks. Your idea may be viable for smart homes that require very little human intervention. 99.99% of human population won't be able to afford those types of homes in our lifetimes. You can power single family homes but what about hospitals, office buildings, and airports? Small or even very big batteries won't be enough. That's why we keep huge diesel-powered generators for emergencies not solar panels or windmills.
Quote: (06-07-2017 01:26 AM)MidJack Wrote:
These discussions always get blurry because of how arbitrary energy measurement can be, but if you're going to count dammed water as stored energy then you also have to count refined fissile materials and petroleum products that have been extracted but not yet consumed.
Hydro is not free. You have to build and maintain a dam just like a nuclear reactor or oil rig. One technology may be cleaner or return more on energy invested, but none are zero-cost.
Since OP went immediately to the extreme case of exclusive nuclear, even though no one suggested it, it sounds like he or his super world famous professor are vulnerable to the black-and-white thinking that often dominates academic discussions on environment and energy.
The point of having nuclear and natural gas and coal and "green energy" (onerous as it is) is to have a diversity of energy sources and technologies so failure of one won't collapse an economy or civilization. Periodically some energy industries dominate others. For example, coal is out of favor right now, but in a global emergency Fischer-Tropsch could save the United States.
Either OP is fresh off some intense academics, in which case all of this can be forgiven, or we're about to learn that he actually has Q clearance and knows every secret behind US energy policy. Please be Little Dark NASA Test Pilot reincarnate.
(On the relative utility of nuclear power: If any base load denialists emerge in this thread I will laugh out loud.)
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According to National Grid plc chief executive officer Steve Holliday in 2015, baseload is "outdated", as microgrids would become the primary means of production, and large powerplants relegated to supply the remainder.
Quote: (06-09-2017 09:55 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:
Regardless, although I generally disagree with Arado (see the Indian Politics thread), I do agree with him that solar and battery costs are dropping at a jaw-breaking rate. Though I'm not willing to concede it's a 100% guaranteed bet. I do find the lack of nuance on both sides of the argument in this thread a bit enervating. Too much black and white thinking.
Green Tech Media is biased in favor of renewables. Yet I trust this particular news article since it'd be hard to make stuff like this up and get away with it:
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/...-18-months
As for OP:
Quote: (06-09-2017 04:06 PM)speculator Wrote:
In order to accomplish that task, we must completely redesign our lifestyles and even then it is against our inner biological clocks. Your idea may be viable for smart homes that require very little human intervention. 99.99% of human population won't be able to afford those types of homes in our lifetimes. You can power single family homes but what about hospitals, office buildings, and airports? Small or even very big batteries won't be enough. That's why we keep huge diesel-powered generators for emergencies not solar panels or windmills.
I've bolded a particular sentence of yours considering how bold, and dare I say arrogant, it is. In our lifetimes? Look around you and see how much technology has moved forward in the past 10, 20, 50 years. Not so long ago, 99% of the human population would not have been able to afford all the technologies that come within a smartphone.
Solar comes in many forms, not just photovoltaics. CSP has some promise towards converting solar directly into stored energy. Flow batteries and some other ideas are being heavily researched. It really is not inconceivable that large-scale affordable storage may one day become viable. Not to mention the possibilities of microgrids, demand-side management, and perhaps a host of new technologies that may come about in the next decade or two.
Weak thread. For someone who has been lurking for a long time, perhaps you should read the countless of threads on environmentalists, Tesla, energy, etc etc that have already been made. Your declaration that Elon Musk is the modern day Ponzi is a few years behind the forum.
Quote: (06-08-2017 05:13 PM)Robert High Hawk Wrote:
Quote: (06-08-2017 03:56 PM)911 Wrote:
Is there an image resizing function on this board? posting huge gifs on this board stretches the text width out so much it's difficult to read.
Word.
Thankfully we're on a new page so the people can get it write. It's a huge pain in the ass to scroll up down, left and right for every single word.
This thread is about technology, so let's use our own copy and pasting technology right first.
I've been guilty of this myself once in the past.
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The dirty secret of Britain's power madness: Polluting diesel generators built in secret by foreign companies to kick in when there's no wind for turbines - and other insane but true eco-scandals
Moving to wind power is expected to cost £1 billion a year by 2015
Official figures on the size of the green economy are extremely misleading
They exaggerate the worth of the sector by up to 700 per cent
Quote: (06-09-2017 10:37 PM)Arado Wrote:
Quote: (06-08-2017 03:56 PM)911 Wrote:
Is there an image resizing function on this board? posting huge gifs on this board stretches the text width out so much it's difficult to read.
My bad - is there a post somewhere explaining this?
Quote: (06-08-2017 05:43 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:
The storage issue with Solar goes away when you adapt your usage to fit in.
You use all your electricity during the day, heating, cooling, washing, cooking, pool pump, charge your car and batteries.
Just need house insulation to keep the daytimes cooling/heating in (or other thermal storage options)
At night it's just a small battery for lights, tv and a computer.
With adaption, we have the technology to make use of solar today.
Quote: (06-10-2017 06:37 AM)Lime Wrote:
Quote: (06-08-2017 05:43 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:
The storage issue with Solar goes away when you adapt your usage to fit in.
You use all your electricity during the day, heating, cooling, washing, cooking, pool pump, charge your car and batteries.
Just need house insulation to keep the daytimes cooling/heating in (or other thermal storage options)
At night it's just a small battery for lights, tv and a computer.
With adaption, we have the technology to make use of solar today.
Ever thought about how Europe is at high latitudes in winter? Dark at 5pm.
Also, you propose that people cool only at daytime but believe me I leave my fridge on at night.
Quote: (06-09-2017 09:55 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:
Honestly, this entire thread's been a bit of a waste. Besides the lack of real cohesion in the thread title, many of the issues brought up here by the OP have already been discussed elsewhere. Additionally, I wonder if you're a bit of a rookie because a lot of things you're saying are rehashed criticisms of renewable energies.
Duck curve? A VP of a California utility has admitted publically they can now have 100% renewable grids.
http://inewsource.org/2017/05/26/sempra-...les-pxise/
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“I am speaking with confidence now. We have a solution now to adjust the intermittency of solar and wind energy that is no longer a technology challenge. Now it is an economic decision,” said Patrick Lee, Sempra Energy vice president for major project controls. “So installing a base load power plant is no longer your only option. You can now look at solar, wind and storage as alternatives, and still be able to manage the reliability of the grid. So that is the takeaway I would like you to have.”
Quote:Quote:
In those three years, not only have wind, solar and battery prices plunged. The software to control storage and the grid has also advanced.
Suddenly, there is software that can make grid adjustments and bring battery power online much, much faster. “We now have the ability to control the grid twenty times faster than you can blink your eye,” Lee said.
An assumption almost everyone makes is that you need baseload power sources to run the electric grid. I don't know if that assumption is valid. It was for historical reasons, but storage really does change the equation fundamentally.
Though amusingly, and perhaps unsurprisingly, the VP had to backtrack his comments since his employer is heavily invested in natural gas.
Regardless, although I generally disagree with Arado (see the Indian Politics thread), I do agree with him that solar and battery costs are dropping at a jaw-breaking rate. Though I'm not willing to concede it's a 100% guaranteed bet. I do find the lack of nuance on both sides of the argument in this thread a bit enervating. Too much black and white thinking.
Green Tech Media is biased in favor of renewables. Yet I trust this particular news article since it'd be hard to make stuff like this up and get away with it:
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/...-18-months
Quote:Quote:
According to Larsh Johnson, the chief technology officer of Stem, the company is paying 70 percent less for lithium-ion batteries than it was 18 months ago.
As for OP:
Quote: (06-09-2017 04:06 PM)speculator Wrote:
In order to accomplish that task, we must completely redesign our lifestyles and even then it is against our inner biological clocks. Your idea may be viable for smart homes that require very little human intervention. 99.99% of human population won't be able to afford those types of homes in our lifetimes. You can power single family homes but what about hospitals, office buildings, and airports? Small or even very big batteries won't be enough. That's why we keep huge diesel-powered generators for emergencies not solar panels or windmills.
I've bolded a particular sentence of yours considering how bold, and dare I say arrogant, it is. In our lifetimes? Look around you and see how much technology has moved forward in the past 10, 20, 50 years. Not so long ago, 99% of the human population would not have been able to afford all the technologies that come within a smartphone.
Solar comes in many forms, not just photovoltaics. CSP has some promise towards converting solar directly into stored energy. Flow batteries and some other ideas are being heavily researched. It really is not inconceivable that large-scale affordable storage may one day become viable. Not to mention the possibilities of microgrids, demand-side management, and perhaps a host of new technologies that may come about in the next decade or two.
Weak thread. For someone who has been lurking for a long time, perhaps you should read the countless of threads on environmentalists, Tesla, energy, etc etc that have already been made. Your declaration that Elon Musk is the modern day Ponzi is a few years behind the forum.
Quote: (06-07-2017 01:26 AM)MidJack Wrote:
These discussions always get blurry because of how arbitrary energy measurement can be, but if you're going to count dammed water as stored energy then you also have to count refined fissile materials and petroleum products that have been extracted but not yet consumed.
Hydro is not free. You have to build and maintain a dam just like a nuclear reactor or oil rig. One technology may be cleaner or return more on energy invested, but none are zero-cost.
Since OP went immediately to the extreme case of exclusive nuclear, even though no one suggested it, it sounds like he or his super world famous professor are vulnerable to the black-and-white thinking that often dominates academic discussions on environment and energy.
The point of having nuclear and natural gas and coal and "green energy" (onerous as it is) is to have a diversity of energy sources and technologies so failure of one won't collapse an economy or civilization. Periodically some energy industries dominate others. For example, coal is out of favor right now, but in a global emergency Fischer-Tropsch could save the United States.
Either OP is fresh off some intense academics, in which case all of this can be forgiven, or we're about to learn that he actually has Q clearance and knows every secret behind US energy policy. Please be Little Dark NASA Test Pilot reincarnate.
(On the relative utility of nuclear power: If any base load denialists emerge in this thread I will laugh out loud.)
I did like this post a lot - perhaps the only useful contribution. Though feel free to laugh at me for "base load denialism" . I'm actually quite ambivalent about the need for base load generators (in new forms of "the electric grid", but not in the current setup). I'm looking forward to seeing what the microgrid experiments turn out. I've had a bit too much engineering experience in my life to ever count out a new approach. Granted, the notion of base load may turn out to be an immutable foundation of a functioning electrical grid. Yet in my experience, I've never seen a clear argument for why you absolutely need a base load the way we currently envision it. It isn't a fundamental law of physics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_load
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According to National Grid plc chief executive officer Steve Holliday in 2015, baseload is "outdated", as microgrids would become the primary means of production, and large powerplants relegated to supply the remainder.
But again, I'm ambivalent. And more so, excited to see what the future brings.
Quote: (06-23-2017 08:08 PM)speculator Wrote:
Very interesting developments in Mecca of renewables aka Commiefornia. As I mentioned in my previous posts in this thread, when the share of renewables in overall energy production exceeds 25%, the disruption of a grid becomes inevitable.
Californians have installed so many solar panels during the last two years that this number is about 27% in the state. In order to deal with this problem, grid operators paid millions of dollars to neighboring states to take the excess energy that CANNOT be stored. In other words, Arizona, Nevada, and Oregon not only get FREE energy but they also get paid for it. This is a result of delusional policy that local lawmakers have adopted a decade ago.
One may think that electricity should be very cheap in California but state residents pay 50 percent more than the national average. The absurdity of this situation is incomprehensible. Californians provide free energy and cash to neighboring states and at the same time pay 50 percent more. Go figure out.
Interestingly, LA Slimes posted a good article about this issue yesterday. There is no hope for Californians because local radicals want to produce 100% of energy from renewable sources by 2045. These morons don't understand basic physics or economics but magically get reelected many times.
LADWP, the largest municipal utility in the States, will cut the rebates for solar panels starting June 30, 2017. It seems like the fantasy bubble is bursting in front of our eyes.
Make sure to read this semi-decent piece of journalism from LA Slimes.
The Biggest Problem of Renewables.
Quote: (06-09-2017 04:06 PM)speculator Wrote:
Quote: (06-08-2017 05:43 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:
The storage issue with Solar goes away when you adapt your usage to fit in.
You use all your electricity during the day, heating, cooling, washing, cooking, pool pump, charge your car and batteries.
Just need house insulation to keep the daytimes cooling/heating in (or other thermal storage options)
At night it's just a small battery for lights, tv and a computer.
With adaption, we have the technology to make use of solar today.
In order to accomplish that task, we must completely redesign our lifestyles and even then it is against our inner biological clocks. Your idea may be viable for smart homes that require very little human intervention. 99.99% of human population won't be able to afford those types of homes in our lifetimes. You can power single family homes but what about hospitals, office buildings, and airports? Small or even very big batteries won't be enough. That's why we keep huge diesel-powered generators for emergencies not solar panels or windmills.
Quote: (06-10-2017 06:37 AM)Lime Wrote:
Quote: (06-08-2017 05:43 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:
The storage issue with Solar goes away when you adapt your usage to fit in.
You use all your electricity during the day, heating, cooling, washing, cooking, pool pump, charge your car and batteries.
Just need house insulation to keep the daytimes cooling/heating in (or other thermal storage options)
At night it's just a small battery for lights, tv and a computer.
With adaption, we have the technology to make use of solar today.
Ever thought about how Europe is at high latitudes in winter? Dark at 5pm.
Also, you propose that people cool only at daytime but believe me I leave my fridge on at night.
Quote: (06-10-2017 07:38 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:
Adapt energy expenditure to it? Why? Fuck those assholes - I know that they won't be adapting jack shit.
I read Agenda 21 - they plan to have you adapt by eating peas and potatoes, get electricity for several hours a day while they dine on steak and burn 1000 times more energy than you do.
Austerity and bullshit for you - even better life for them - that is Agenda 21 in a nutshell.
Quote: (06-24-2017 12:50 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:
Quote: (06-10-2017 07:38 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:
Adapt energy expenditure to it? Why? Fuck those assholes - I know that they won't be adapting jack shit.
I read Agenda 21 - they plan to have you adapt by eating peas and potatoes, get electricity for several hours a day while they dine on steak and burn 1000 times more energy than you do.
Austerity and bullshit for you - even better life for them - that is Agenda 21 in a nutshell.
I am with you comrade! Free gas guzzlers for all! Lets burn the planet!
I am all for unlimited cheap power for everyone, but you do realise we are exponentially burning a non-renewable resource to create it, right?
There are also exponentially more people trying to burn it as well.
The reality is, sooner, rather than later, we are going to have to learn to live from make renewable power, until fusion or some other breakthrough makes it happen.
Also capitalism is driving many people to go off grid and remove power bills from their lives, free choice. I am happy to do my washing at 10am instead of midnight, and forgo the aircon on and the windows open for a zero cost power bill each month!
Quote: (11-02-2017 05:39 PM)speculator Wrote:
I made a bold prediction back in June that Tesla has 6 more months to suck on investors' heavy tits. It seems like Tesla's honeymoon is over and Musk doesn't know how to save his Ponzi scheme. Last quarter the company lost $620 million, the worst quarter so far. In Musk's words, they are in "deep production hell" right now. It's stock has lost 12% after posting its miserable results yesterday.
Trump's new tax bill will take away the $7.5k electric vehicle credit virtually putting the last nail in Tesla's coffin. This company is done and be careful with your investments in its stocks.
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The Model 3's aluminum and steel body requires more welding rather than the adhesive and rivets in aluminum bodies, experts say.
Harbour described the difference between the body of the Model 3 and those of the Model S and Model X as "partly cloudy vs. partly sunny." The change in materials would require processes new to Tesla.
"There's a big difference there. They haven't been doing a lot of spot welding on the first two vehicles because they're all aluminum," Harbour said. "The learning curve is pretty steep."
After the Journal report, Musk tweeted a of the Model 3 production line, which was operating at one-tenth of its potential speed. In the video, sparks fly as two robotic arms assemble parts of the vehicle frame. He followed with another on Wednesday, Oct. 11, showing body panel stamping at full speed.
"Resistance welding should make a little smoke, but when you see stuff popping out like that, that's called expulsion," automotive manufacturing consultant Michael Tracy of Agile Group in Howell, Mich., said of the first video. "It's symptomatic of weld spots getting too hot because they're poorly planned, or in this case, the metal not being pulled all the way together."
Poor welds can increase the damage to a vehicle in an accident, and can lead to rattling and squeaking as the car ages, Tracy said.