[debeguiled]

Kona, no need to bring up Ferguson.

[Kona]

(04-09-2017 05:59 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

Kona, no need to bring up Ferguson.

You're right I'll erase that. Keep that can o worms shut.

Aloha!

[kavi]

(04-09-2017 05:51 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 03:26 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 02:44 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

He Judo threw her face first into the fucking concrete floor and you don't have a problem with that? Ok. Don't complain when the cops think you're being resistant to their actions and do much worse because you are as big, or bigger than them.

I can't remember a time when the police ever thought I was resisting arrest. I also can't remember a time they threw me to the ground. There may be a correlation there somewhere.

The time to make your case for unlawful arrest is not during the arrest. Is there ever a time you're going to say, "No way, I'm not going with you!" and then the officers say, "Okay, you're right" and then they leave?

And let's not forget this part: "Michaella Surat was thrown to the ground outside Bondi Beach Bar in Fort Collins on Thursday night after allegedly hitting one of the officers."

That's a short video. We can't see what happened beforehand to make the officer arrest her.

Arresting does not equal taste concrete by means of a throw into it if the officer had any semblance of control over the situation or the perp.

That girl was not a threat. No one around him was a threat. he had back up. What is the justification and rationale behind face planting a woman based on the events we saw in the clip.

Nowhere in that clip did she warrant the action. She could be the biggest cunt in the world but right there and then there was no justification. If a cop does that under those circumstances I want to see him react to lethal violence or stressful situations and come out clean.

It is reported that she had already hit him and looks to be trying it again. What do you want him to do? Stand there and take it. Cops need to be rough with people when they cross the line into physical violence because otherwise they will become a target.

If people start seeing police do nothing when someone tries to hit them, dont you think they will lose authority and that it will encourage more dangerous people to attack them.

You think a police man wants you to think "Hey man, it's ok, come punch me in face, you have rights and I cant touch you"

[IvanDrago]

(04-09-2017 01:12 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

Any cop worth his salt could of deescalated that situation and made an arrest without violence.

"Deescalate"?

You don't have much real world experience with the police, do you?

[Kona]

(04-09-2017 06:17 PM)kavi Wrote:  

It is reported that she had already hit him and looks to be trying it again.

It is reported by the cops, who by this video are clearly in the wrong.

Let's imagine it wasn't a girl. Let's image a two hundred fifty pound boxer. (A white one, because we know how it would go with a black guy.) They sure as hell would have done a little more verbal deescalating. Again, he got a little worked up, and wanted to show her who's boss.

I don't understand why the cops are automatically on the moral high ground in this day and age.

That's a 120 pound girl. No guns, no weapons.

No matter what she did before, the cop can't do what he did and get away with it.

Aloha!

[BrewDog]

(04-09-2017 06:45 PM)Kona Wrote:  

Let's imagine it wasn't a girl. Let's image a two hundred fifty pound boxer. (A white one, because we know how it would go with a black guy.) They sure as hell would have done a little more verbal deescalating.

That's very unlikely. A large man that takes a fighting stance is more likely to escalate much faster, and the police would have been more likely to use batons, spray or a zapper. The very reason this girl ONLY received a mere faceplant into the floor was because she wasn't a large man.

Many people that make up Joe Public have an idea in their minds what police should do or what they lawfully can do. And that's why Joe Public are subsequently flabbergasted when the police are cleared of wrongdoing in an incident when Joe Public were so certain that they knew police procedures better than the police.

The police are authorized by law and procedure to "one up" the level of resistance of the suspect.

-If the suspect is passively resisting, the officer can use pressure points and pain compliance techniques to force the suspect to submit to the arrest.

-If the suspect actively resists, as in this girl's case, the police can lock out your arm and throw you to the ground.

-If the suspect squares off into a fighting stance with his fists up, then the officer uses spray, baton, Tazer.

-If the suspect pulls out any sort of weapon that can cause serious bodily harm, then the police can use deadly force.

If that sounds unfair to the average Joe Public armchair quarterback, then that's unfortunate. Perhaps if more armchair quarterbacks had ever been through police training or had to arrest someone that was non-compliant, they might have a better overall feel for the process.

And as I said above, I can guarantee when she went down that hard, the officer thought, "Oh shit." But her bad. She should have sat her ass down on a barstool and shut her slutty piehole instead of instigating a ta-doo when the police weren't even there for her.

[RIslander]

(04-09-2017 06:37 PM)IvanDrago Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 01:12 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

Any cop worth his salt could of deescalated that situation and made an arrest without violence.

"Deescalate"?

You don't have much real world experience with the police, do you?

If you mean getting arrested, then no. I am a law abiding citizen and not a sack of shit. If you mean hanging around police, then yes I do as I am close friends with several cops and federal law enforcement officers and have heard all their stories.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(04-09-2017 01:46 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

...
That is true, if the officer is a robot. I'd prefer my tax dollars going to police officers with a brain. And I fully understand the powerful nature of muscle memory.

Double the pay and double the qualifications. Suck up the increased taxes.

Nothing in life is free. Pay meathead wages, ask for meathead qualifications, get meathead cops.

As for monday morning quarterbacking, here's my opinion. Drunk woman in high heels? The cop could have made the exact same play 100 times and gotten 100 different levels of faceplant ranging from "soft drop" to "dead".

The bitch simply froze in all the wrong joints at just the wrong moment, making a somewhat rough takedown turn into WORLDSTAR material. Shit happens. Life goes on. The only real qualifier in this instance (and most instances like it) is whether the officer in question had a history of complaints for same. If not then I'd flag his file and keep an eye on him, nothing more.

You just never know when someone is going to go down like a sack of shit, and you just never know when the slightest hesitation is going to get you a set of claws in the eyeball. But none of us here have ever fucked up on the job, right?

[Caractacus Potts]

[/quote] That's exactly the reaction taught to them every day at the police academy. Her hand movements are considered "active resistance" which warrants the officer using open hand compliance techniques. He slammed her hard, and I promise you, he was surprised by it. During training, male officers pair up and use these control/compliance techniques on other men that weigh twice as much as that girl. The force the officer used during training to slam a 200lb man to the ground is suddenly way more than required to drop that petite girl to the ground which led to overkill.
[/quote]

This^^^

When I was in college I trained with the Judo/Jiu Jitsu club. The amount of force or kazushi required to move a female uke opponent was much less than with a male. If you did the technique right both parties should be thrown or joint locked equally.

But during free fighting or randori one has a tendency to muscle through things rather than rely on pure technique. On a number of occasions I was afraid I used too much force when throwing a female or newer member.

[tarquin]

(04-09-2017 07:52 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 01:46 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

...
That is true, if the officer is a robot. I'd prefer my tax dollars going to police officers with a brain. And I fully understand the powerful nature of muscle memory.

Double the pay and double the qualifications. Suck up the increased taxes.

Nothing in life is free. Pay meathead wages, ask for meathead qualifications, get meathead cops.

I have yet to meet a police officer who is paid meathead wages.

[Paracelsus]

(04-09-2017 05:54 PM)Kona Wrote:  

The police are not also the judge and jury.

There was no reason to throw that girl to the ground like that. He wanted to show her who's boss. That's it.

Hitting a cop, yes that is a crime. It is not the cops job, however, to administer punishment on the spot.

I get so tired of hearing the "well the cop has the right to defend himself" argument.

I think this is one of the constitutional amendments:

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups. The police, who investigation crime. And the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders.

Also, I have a feeling since bodycam footage has not been released, theres more fault on the cop than we see in the tape. He could have spun her up against the light pole right next to them.

At some point someone needs to speak up and say that maybe police training is a little dated.

Aloha!

FTFY.

[BrewDog]

(04-09-2017 08:33 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 05:54 PM)Kona Wrote:  

I think this is one of the constitutional amendments:

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups. The police, who investigation crime. And the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders.

FTFY.

Wait, you mean it's not from the Constitution? Now I'm disappointed.

[Kona]

You never saw Lennie Briscoe body slamming the ladies.

RIP Lennie.

Aloha!

[cascadecombo]

(04-09-2017 08:13 PM)Caractacus Potts Wrote:  

When I was in college I trained with the Judo/Jiu Jitsu club. The amount of force or kazushi required to move a female uke opponent was much less than with a male. If you did the technique right both parties should be thrown or joint locked equally.

But during free fighting or randori one has a tendency to muscle through things rather than rely on pure technique. On a number of occasions I was afraid I used too much force when throwing a female or newer member.

Kuzushi (崩し:くずし?) is a Japanese term for unbalancing an opponent in the Japanese martial arts.

Kuzushi* isn't about the force, it's the center of gravity of which you are attempting to disrupt when leveraging a throw in Judo or 柔道.

Ideally the force needed to disrupt any partner male or female should be as minimal as possible as you're not so much pulling them with your arms as much as you're loading them onto your hips before letting them fall over your figure. Or you could have just done hulk smash mode, as I see most people try to do in the states.

[Robert High Hawk]

(04-09-2017 07:52 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 01:46 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

...
That is true, if the officer is a robot. I'd prefer my tax dollars going to police officers with a brain. And I fully understand the powerful nature of muscle memory.

Double the pay and double the qualifications. Suck up the increased taxes.

Nothing in life is free. Pay meathead wages, ask for meathead qualifications, get meathead cops.

This brings up a very interesting point. Having lived in Germany, I can tell you it's amazing how different the police were there. Night and day attitude compared to the US. They truly are experts at diffusing situations, I would say to a fault since they can be too passive. No cop seems to have an attitude and they are quite friendly. I will also add they are all in good shape. I will further add that there's quite a few female police officers in their force, and - no exageration - a very large proportion of them are extremely attractive and have nice long hair.

One of the key reasons why the police are better in Germany is simply due to training and priorities. Police in Germany go through TWO YEARS of police academy*, sometimes more. In the states you're looking at around 6 months.

To be fair, there's lower criminality in general in Germany, and the variance in crime is lower. I think US police have been primed by other police stories, or perhaps where they work, to see every encounter as potentially lethal for them, and as such tend to err on the side of overescalation rather than showing a little vulnerability to deescalate.

This topic deserves it's own thread though. Even the jail system in Germany is so lenient, with lower rates of recidivism, as to be head scratching**

* this is what I heard, would love the accurate amount of time. I do know it's substantially longer than US police academies

** This may be entirely due to different ethnic demographics of Germany, but please please lets not get into a race thread about this, since even across select ethnicities, you also have lower rates of recidivism.

[Kona]

^^^ Gun violence. Same with the police here in Hawaii. No guns.

Watch with the case in question of the body slammed girl. Someone will say "well she could have had a gun" which is actually a possibility.

Sorry to bring it up, but look at the Michael brown shooting. Even though he was trying to grab a cops gun, in that part of the country it is likely he could have had one.

Its math. One gun present, chances of getting shot go up. Two guns present, those chances skyrocket. Right this second, a skydiver could crash through my roof, and I would die in a skydiving accident. Its very unlikely. If I actually skydive, my chances of being in a skydiving accident go way up. I will be more conscious and on edge if actually skydiving.

Aloha!

[Zamyatin]

(04-09-2017 02:29 PM)Mikan Wrote:  

Ippon!

Definitely not an ippon as she landed on her front.

That was sickening to watch. She presented no threat to him whatsoever. He could have very easily killed her, or broken her teeth, caused brain damage, you name it.

More sickening are the posters applauding the actions of the cop. Instead of directing your rage towards attractive females, maybe it should be directed to the militarized police forces that treat the citizenry with utmost contempt. Cops like this guy are complete fascist cunts, and will be the very first to provide muscle against unarmed citizens, whether they be tipsy girls on a night out, or christian bakers who don't want to bake a cake for a lesbian wedding, or maybe even a group of "neo-masculine" men trying to have a peaceful night out together.

Wake the fuck up, losers.

[Suits]

She did that to herself. The officer would have given her a softer landing if she hadn't clenched up and fought him all the way to the ground.

I can guarantee you that he had already tried to get control of the situation with less power previously and she'd just squirmed around enough to prevent him from being successful.

Sure, with the right training/practice, the police officer would have been able to deal with the situation without face-planting her, but as things currently stand, departments don't offer a lot of training on how not to injury bitchy 90 pound squirmy alcoholics who over-estimate their own strength by a country miles.

Also, police officers are both trained for and required to stick to the techniques authorized by their departments. There may be safer take down techniques that they are NOT permitted to use, as they may threaten officer safety. It could very well be that the officer used the minimum amount of force necessary to take her down using an approved technique.

Unfortunately for her, the amount of force necessary to take a squirmy drunk brat off her feet using an approved technique also meant that she was going to hit the ground hard if she tensed up and continued to fight him all the way to the ground.



I'm seeing a lot of interesting correlation between the folks whiteknighting on this thread and their posting history elsewhere on the forum.

[Kratomite]

She'll never be a bitch again. I can tell you that.

I had a similar experience in the 8th grade. I was a 115lb real life shit lord. I had no concept how small/weak I was. I trash talked a much bigger dude, and he literally picked me up and dropped me on my head.

I weighed my words CAREFULLY after that.

The idea chicks should be given a free pass on violence is just silly. She got insolent with a much bigger man with a badge and a gun. Stupid is as stupid does.

[IvanDrago]

(04-09-2017 07:43 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

If you mean getting arrested, then no. I am a law abiding citizen and not a sack of shit. If you mean hanging around police, then yes I do as I am close friends with several cops and federal law enforcement officers and have heard all their stories.

That is good to know. You are basing your comment about "deescalation" on one side of second hand stories that may be tainted with bias. No worries, at least we are clear on that.

As far as being a law abiding citizen, I am sure you are no more or less of a sack of shit than 99% of the population. With the tomes upon tomes of laws that have been written, I am sure you unknowingly commit daily misdemeanors and could be accused of the occasional felony if one looked hard enough.

You could start reading the laws that you are supposed to adhere to and you wouldn't be able to finish by the time you die. Anyone who says they are a law abiding citizen hasn't thought that statement through, it is an impossibility to know. Everybody is guilty of breaking some law and could be fined or jailed. That is how the system is designed, that is how it works.

No worries though, you squirrely little law breaker you I ain't mad at ya

[Suits]

(04-09-2017 10:04 PM)Kratomite Wrote:  

She'll never be a bitch again. I can tell you that.

I had a similar experience in the 8th grade. I was a 115lb real life shit lord. I had no concept how small/weak I was. I trash talked a much bigger dude, and he literally picked me up and dropped me on my head.

I weighed my words CAREFULLY after that.

The idea chicks should be given a free pass on violence is just silly. She got insolent with a much bigger man with a badge and a gun. Stupid is as stupid does.

She absolutely will be a bitch again.

One of the current elements in the social contract of all Western English speaking nations as well as plenty of non-Western English speaking nations, is that women are NOT required to learn from their mistakes.

She'll spend the next 6 months to a year having people tell her that what happened to her was unfair and that it wasn't her fault at all and that the police officer should be executed.

She'll have an even worse attitude when all is said and done and she'll develop a "survivor's" complex.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(04-09-2017 09:30 PM)Zamyatin Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 02:29 PM)Mikan Wrote:  

Ippon!

Definitely not an ippon as she landed on her front.

That was sickening to watch. She presented no threat to him whatsoever. He could have very easily killed her, or broken her teeth, caused brain damage, you name it.

More sickening are the posters applauding the actions of the cop. Instead of directing your rage towards >>>attractive<<< females, maybe it should be directed to the militarized police forces that treat the citizenry with utmost contempt. Cops like this guy are complete fascist cunts, and will be the very first to provide muscle against unarmed citizens, whether they be tipsy girls on a night out, or christian bakers who don't want to bake a cake for a lesbian wedding, or maybe even a group of "neo-masculine" men trying to have a peaceful night out together.

Wake the fuck up, losers.

Cavalry de blanco, assemble!

[LeoneVolpe]

(04-09-2017 10:14 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 10:04 PM)Kratomite Wrote:  

She'll never be a bitch again. I can tell you that.

I had a similar experience in the 8th grade. I was a 115lb real life shit lord. I had no concept how small/weak I was. I trash talked a much bigger dude, and he literally picked me up and dropped me on my head.

I weighed my words CAREFULLY after that.

The idea chicks should be given a free pass on violence is just silly. She got insolent with a much bigger man with a badge and a gun. Stupid is as stupid does.

She absolutely will be a bitch again.

One of the current elements in the social contract of all Western English speaking nations as well as plenty of non-Western English speaking nations, is that women are NOT required to learn from their mistakes.

She'll spend the next 6 months to a year having people tell her that what happened to her was unfair and that it wasn't her fault at all and that the police officer should be executed.

She'll have an even worse attitude when all is said and done and she'll develop a "survivor's" complex.

Sad but true.

Nice ass, though.

[asdfk]

About the police in Germany: there are no gangs there, no no-go zones, no guns, no organised crime as big as in the States. It's comparing apples and oranges.

I definitely do agree that anyone, men and women, should meet their physical superior and take a hit every now and then. But it looks like the girl in the video is going to be badly hurt and might have permanent damage. That's on another level and that shouldn't have happened, even if she was violent herself.

The biggest reason we have problems between the sexes in the west is that women are exempt from any form of harm, but have zero appreciation for the protection they receive. If as a man you jump in this frame of the disposable protector, you will never be successful with women.

[Chowder Head]

This just in: Sorority girl is now a member of Black Lives Matter.