[Hoser]

OP: "What I really want is something like "You're short, tough. Do this not that."

I love your attitude. Look at yourself. You're saying, "I'm short, fuck it! I'm interested in winning!"

Let your gaming attitude be the same, minus the focus on short.

[birthday cat]

I think the recommended way for short men to meet women is the same as the recommended way for all men to meet women - you have to figure out what works best for you. There are a few obvious things for short guys like well-fitted clothes, shoes with a heel, don't be fat or have bad posture, don't expect to get massive amounts of one night stands via night game without being extroverted and having strong game, etc. Other than that you just have to improve like everyone else and try enough things until you have success.

Height is only one attribute on a woman's 257 bullet point checklist of requirements and the counterbalance for being short is to improve everything else. Excellent posts about this are here and here.

CaliGuy - I think your biggest problem is mindset. The fact that you think you have this height thing completely figured out is a big indicator that you don't have it figured out at all.

I think your 2nd problem is a lack of understanding of people, women, and how women view men. I don't think you are a "people person" and you aren't developing your people/social/game skills as much as you could.

I think your 3rd problem is being too analytical and this problem overlaps with the two problems I've described above. First, you are so stuck on this height issue that you aren't seeing the forest through the trees on everything else. Second, you seem to want a step-by-step game manual for short guys but unfortunately game and women are not math problems with one answer that is correct for everyone.

If I was you, I would first define what you want with women because your plan will be different for relationships vs. fuck buddies vs. one night stands.

Second, I would try to improve in a lot of areas and I would apply the 20/80 rule to these areas so you are using your time efficiently. Example - learn only the basics about style and understand that the most important thing for short guys is fit, you don't need to be an expert. Example - follow a proven 3 or 4 day per week workout plan written by a professional rather than trying to reinvent the wheel or train to the point of diminishing return like so many guys do.

Third, I would consider contributing to this forum in other areas that you are knowledgeable in so that guys here view as helpful and a teammate. Then meet guys in real life and get their feedback. Traveling abroad might open up new possibilities as well.

[Fortis]

Just approach, dude. Sure, she might prefer taller guys but there is something deeply attractive about a dude who gives no fucks about a weakness he has control over.

I had an uncle who was 5'3 and was a total ladykiller. My grandmother has told me stories about girls fighting over him at the clubs and in front of the house.

I'm 5'8 and bald, so I'm not talking shit. I know what it's like to walk into a room and be the shortest dude.

Do not ask for permission. Approach the girls you like.

Think of a guy like Joe Pesci, I imagine he's good with women despite being nearly a midget. There is something deeply dynamic about extremely short guys who run hard game. Sure, the chick might poke fun but just come right back at them if they make it personal.

[Hoser]

^^^ this man gets it.

[Rekk'd]

The Gym, I saw this really fuckin short guy about 5'3 approach a girl slightly taller than him. Few weeks later I'm at a club and they are together making out and shit.

I consider her to be one of the sexiest in the gym (it's a university gym in Montreal) and I couldn't believe it. I don't day game since im too much of a puss and I'm 6'3 but hey, he just got balls. I would say night game is useless for short guys.

[Hoser]

Last time I was in Montreal (20+ years ago), the wimminz were rather comely. Bravo, 5'3" guy!

[Steve McQueen]

(02-14-2017 05:16 PM)CaliGuy Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 12:25 PM)Steve McQueen Wrote:  

I do night game and the way I get around this is to sit on a bar stool. Its harder for them to tell just how tall you are and if you are a good conversationalist, once you have them engaged plus open to talking more, they really dont mind so much.

This type of strategy works better in the city than a rural setting as there is a much higher volume of traffic at the bar.

How does you approach work?

Do you just walk up to them and sit on a stool at their table or at the bar next to them?

I choose a good spot at the bar where everybody seems to order their drinks. I engage by commenting on the drinks being ordered.

Also I try chatting to the barman or other people at the bar and inviting her into the conversation by saying 'what do you think of x dilemma we are discussing'.

I am a good talker so this set up suits my personality, for venue selection I will choose a place with live music in the centre of the city

[Alpone]

I have a friend who is 5'5". I also had a boss who was the same height. My friend is bad with women and easily gets friendzoned. My former boss was a player and killed it with much taller chicks. The difference:

Friend:
-He's self conscious about his height. It's in his head. Always.
-Poor style, poor haircut, weak body language, doesn't workout
-General lack of success in life

Former Boss:
-Insanely confident
-Great style, in shape (dude was even balding but kept it clean shaven), confident body language
-Generally successful
-Went DIRECT fast. Even during the day. He'd even flirt during work meetings

When a man is shorter than a woman, she's programmed to assume certain things about his status. It's not a good or bad thing - it just is. Going direct and being more bold than taller guys disarms them and upends their expectations (in a good way). My former boss's confidence was so high he would appear taller in my mental image of him than he really was. For women, the effect must be even greater.

Women are easily susceptible to the power of suggestion. If you suggest (through your actions and confidence) that you believe you're actually the tallest person in the room, you'll grow taller in her eyes. Get in her head and everything else follows.

There is absolutely nothing a fat chick can do to physically attract a normal man. There are many things a short man can do to attract a beautiful women.

[Rocha]

(02-15-2017 01:09 AM)Rekkd Wrote:  

I would say night game is useless for short guys.

No game is useless for short guys.
Dance floor game might be hard for a short man, but there are plenty of places and circumstances in night venues to take advantage and approach.

[Ice]

Yeah I also think it's primarily a mindset issue first and foremost. I'm quite short myself - not really sure how tall, maybe somewhere between 5'6 and 5'8, I honestly don't know. But it never really was an issue for me. Sure, generally I'm not trying to approach girls who are taller than me - only same height or shorter. I'm just not into girls that are taller than me. But I think it would definitely be possible - there were a few girls who were into me in the past who were taller than me, but I wasn't into them due to height, They did look good though, some of them were models. Also while I was living in NYC I had a girlfriend who was a model for a few well know photographers - she was bit taller than me. But I never saw that as an issue.

The things is, why should it be an issue? Ok, you can say girls like taller guys. Ok, but girls also like famous musicians, movie stars, rich guys who own yachts and private jets, professional athletes. Are you one of those guys? Probably not. Sure, there are fewer of these people than there are tall guys. But many people have SOMETHING going for them - someone plays in a local band, another guy has a very good looking masculine face, another guy has a well-paying job, another guy inherited a lot of money, another guy is an artist with some local fame, another guy has a ripped body -- the list goes on. So there's always gonna be guys who have some things going for them apart from height. Height is really just one aspect. If you are a cool guy, smart, great style, decent looking, interesting etc., why should you be on a lower sexual market level than a guy who is tall but works a boring low paid cubicle job and generally has no style? That makes no sense.

I personally consider myself to be in the top 1% in terms of coolness & intelligence. I know what's cool, I have good style, and I can dominate discussions easily. I have no problems asserting myself against others even if they're way taller. So my height may be a disadvantage, but in the grand scheme of things it's not really a big deal.

The only problem I keep running into is that I sometimes situations with guys become confrontational. That most often happens with Americans I must say. Because when you're shorter, some people think that they can dominate you easily, so they come onto you with some kind of a cocky attitude. Oftentimes it's people who are not necessarily that self-confident and who think that they have an easier time against a person who is shorter. If you then push back strong and they realize that they are now in the defensive, it can get confrontational - but that's another topic.

TLDR: Just make sure that you are COOL, go to the gym, get good clothes, ideally develop some micro fame, and be self-confident - then height is only a minor issue.

[Cobra]

Uhh.. recommended way for short men to meet women would probably be ... to not ask what the recommended way is for short men to meet women. Then follow basic game advice.

[XPQ22]

(02-14-2017 01:06 PM)Hoser Wrote:  

Agreed that only tall White guys attract the Asian wimminz. Curiously, the White guys are also often balding. A compromise on each side, perhaps? Asian woman settles for bald guy because White, bald White guy settles for Asian woman because woman.

One of the nicest gifts learning game gave me (other than banging more girls) was saving an enormous amount of money and time worrying about my hair loss.

From time to time insecure guys do try to give me guff over it, like they've found my big weakness!

Hilarious.

But Asian women do tend to go for the "balding beta IT specialist" type white guy, and I'm not that.

[Maxzilla]

The comprehensive answer to your question:

Have a good Face or a good Body

Ideally both, preferably the first

If you have neither then It's Over

[puckerman]

How is game for short men any different than game for other men? Successful men don't obsess over their flaws--real or imagined. They focus on what they have to offer a woman.

[joost]

Guys that aren't that short have no idea how that handicap is. The analogy of being a fat girl is real BUT only applies when you're way below average. Being an inch below average ain't big deal.

Leaving the country should be the last resort you say. It seems extreme but actually it isn't. In life you have pillars; job (money), love (pussy), friends, family, health... You have to keep them in balance.

When you're a 3 (below the average 5 SMV), you're not going to pull 7's often, much less 9's and 10's unless you're famous or very very rich and we need to be honest about it.

Want a real-world advice?

Get fit, dress properly, be decent at game and go to a place where your SMV is higher. I would recommend you to visit Colombia. Plenty of good looking girls that'll look at you and see you as an 8! Bang them, take plenty of pics with them and put on FB or any other social shit you're at so local girls know you have "something going on". They might think you have an 10-inch dick.

If you're afraid of traveling, move to a poor neighborhood were having a job and a car makes you above average. Sounds harsh but being 5 feet and living in Beverly Hills will make you sexless. You can target latinas in poorer areas of Cali...

[Dalaran1991]

(02-27-2017 07:04 AM)joost Wrote:  

Guys that aren't that short have no idea how that handicap is.

Agree.
Most guys think you can look like Tyrion and get plenty of ass, but most guys will never have Tyrion's game level, and dont realize how legendary he is, for having such game.

Game is no different for short guy, except that you have to optimize your game much much more than the average guy, and your margins of errors are lower.
These are simple facts to know and account for. For a short guy who knows his game, it doesn't matter, because when his game works, he can pull the 8s girls just like any guy pull the 8 girls.

Niche game seems to work best for short guys IMO.

[MaxMillion]

(02-14-2017 05:44 PM)CaliGuy Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 03:00 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  

CaliGuy - it seems that you aren't convinced by a lot of our answers in this thread and the other thread.

Sorry if I sound like I'm being difficult. I'm looking for actionable things to do. I've had tons of online arguments about height and whether it affects anything. At this point discussing it is a waste of my time and energy. What I really want is something like "You're short, tough. Do this not that." Or a short guy (or somebody who has a short friend that does well) talking about what his approach with women is.

Quote:

Can you give us lists of the things you have done so far to improve your appearance, game, and logistics? Perhaps that will help us understand you better.

No problem.

A month or so ago I went shopping with a gay friend of one of my coworkers. I wanted to go shopping with her but that's a long story. Regardless I'm doing a major revamp of my wardrobe. I'm staring to learn how to blend colors together in a way that look good without making me look shorter.

I'm at the gym 4-5 days a week. Bench, squat, deadlift, standing shoulder press etc. Plus cardio. I'm getting a DEXA bodyfat scan next week so I can find out where I'm at and to see what goals I should set.

Logistics: I have a job, car, and my own apartment that's a 10 minute walk from one of the main bar areas in a big city.

Game: I've read way too much PUA material over the years. I've probably forgotten more than most people will read. I just finished Bang and now I'm reading Day Bang. I'm at the part where Roosh is talking about how that day game should strictly be indirect which inspired me to make this thread.

On average I go out two nights a week. One of those nights is either Swing dancing or Salsa (both are on week nights ) and on Saturday I go out to one of the local bars with a dance floor and try to dance with girls, which never works. I'm reluctant to go up to random girls and start a conversation though I know it's the major part I'm lacking.

I'm considering starting day game but want to get a better idea of how it works before I start approaching.

Just by the numbers of misfitted couples I see out there, your problem is not that you're short, it's that you're ruminating over your shortness which takes away from the task at hand - winning the woman.

REPEAT. Stop looking around at the "that's the height I want to be" gents, as this causes an OCD type disorder which in turn Fs you up with the woman you desire.

You're short. She sees it. Go from there...

[AmericanPharoah]

Her : "you're kinda short"

You: "dont worry, i grow 6 inches in bed"

[Fortis]

delete