[oldnemesis]

Or has any experience with those? If you have a friend who been to, it is also fine as long as he can answer the questions. There are very few reviews which look trustworthy, and obviously the value of testimonials posted by the company itself or in the company-controlled forums is zero, so please do not refer to those.

My main concern is whether it worth it? Sure, 3K is not a big deal, it is time I don't want to waste. However at the current stage I'm pretty sure I need a review by someone experienced, preferably the one who dealt with a lot of different people before and actually can teach (think the difference between personal trainer ivs a gym rat meathead). It actually feels like skydiving, it takes the second pair of eyes to tell you what you're doing wrong, and often a comment as seemingly small as "you keep your knees too low" is all you need to move to the next level. Hence the question.

[Gavin1234]

I am probably not really helpful here, but I would rather spend the 3K on a holiday to an exciting destination rather than on some PUA guy that may or may not be useful. Also, you can talk about your travel experience with girls but talking about doing a bootcamp on the other hand might creep them out.

[Enfant_Terrible]

delete

[Roosh]

I read his question and he's asking for people who have BEEN to a bootcamp, not if you think it's worth the money. If you haven't been to one then please stay out of the thread.

[truthnobs]

I went to Mystery's boot camp in NYC years ago... my advice is to save your money. Maybe different if you have one on one coach, but live seminars IMO not much more helpful than video/audio files which you can download from internet anyway...

[Riker]

I've spent like 100k on seminars, not PUA but trust me that shit isn't worth it. Use it for other stuff. It'll temporarily get you super motivated but that stuff fades, I wish i had someone tell me that years ago. Go approach and make your lifestyle pimp. They want to make you feel like you don't know how to live your life right, but you do, make it a fun one. Disclaimer cause I have alcohol in my bloodstream but the shit I'm saying is true.

[Roosh]

Judging by your skill level, I don't think you need a full bootcamp. They are intended for newbies and have a bad student to teacher ratio. What you should do is directly contact an instructor that you respect and ask him for a two-hour 1 on 1 meeting where he watches you approach women (it's better if he hears your game).

From the workshops I've taught, my students got the most value out of critiquing their game. The information I taught them could be read in a book, but the custom breakdown of their game helped more.

[rockdaspot]

I did one with a company called "School Of Attraction" based in Sydney, Australia

It was pretty awesome cause instead of being a weekend bootcamp it was spread out over like 10 weeks (1 theory session and 1 practical session every fortnight)

The other good thing about it was befriending like 5 other guys who did the course with me or after me as they have become excellent friends and wingmen.

In terms if results, it helped me a LOT. I went from like one date a month before the course to 3 dates a week after the course and now, a few months on after finishing the course I'm regularly sleeping with a new girl every week or two.

Not everyone got as good as results as me but the guys that didn't do well didn't really listen or apply what was being taught. They were also bootcamp addicts (one guy had done like 5 Mystery Method / Love Systems courses before).

I also saw some guys turn into superheros too. One guy gets one night stands almost every time he goes out and the other guy is just amazing - threesomes (even fivesomes), rapid escalation and just lots of mind blowing stuff.

In summary, I think they are worthwhile. If you want to benefit most from it then I recommend you really listen and apply what is bring taught and link up with as many of the other students as you can. If you can also get some type of ongoing coaching and support then that's a big advantage too.

[Samseau]

I had a friend who did a bootcamp, and he completely regretted it. Don't do a bootcamp. It's designed to be a "frat party" type experience, helping you "bond" with the other men on the bootcamp to build "memorable experiences". Given that you said you hate traveling with crowds, you'd fucking hate a bootcamp. You'd probably ask for your money back.

1-on-1 is your best bet, but even then how can you trust some of these hucksters?

If you want a good critique of your game, see if MiXX, Roosh, or the G manifesto will meet up with you for a price.

[Saladin]

You don't have to spend 3k on a bootcamp.
I'm sure there are local teachers who charge 40 dollars a hour or such.

I've never been to a bootcamp but I did investigate the pricing. LS bootcamps are all 3k and to be honest are geared towards newbies. RSD bootcamps in San Fran are 1.5K.

I would love to hear a review of whatever bootcamp you decide to take.

[ManAbout]

(08-21-2011 11:29 AM)torontokid Wrote:  

You don't have to spend 3k on a bootcamp.
I'm sure there are local teachers who charge 40 dollars a hour or such.

I've never been to a bootcamp but I did investigate the pricing. LS bootcamps are all 3k and to be honest are geared towards newbies. RSD bootcamps in San Fran are 1.5K.

I would love to hear a review of whatever bootcamp you decide to take.

OT but.. I have seen a greasy looking Indian guy giving one on one coaching in Toronto. I have seen him a couple of times now, once at Fairview mall. He was saying stuff and the student who must have been early 20s was writing it all down in his notebook. The student looked Indian too. Any idea who this guy might be?

[Saladin]

(08-21-2011 11:34 AM)ManAbout Wrote:  

(08-21-2011 11:29 AM)torontokid Wrote:  

You don't have to spend 3k on a bootcamp.
I'm sure there are local teachers who charge 40 dollars a hour or such.

I've never been to a bootcamp but I did investigate the pricing. LS bootcamps are all 3k and to be honest are geared towards newbies. RSD bootcamps in San Fran are 1.5K.

I would love to hear a review of whatever bootcamp you decide to take.

OT but.. I have seen a greasy looking Indian guy giving one on one coaching in Toronto. I have seen him a couple of times now, once at Fairview mall. He was saying stuff and the student who must have been early 20s was writing it all down in his notebook. The student looked Indian too. Any idea who this guy might be?

Nope.
Is Fairview mall a good place to pickup girls though?

[PrimeTime]

Personally I would recommend you PM Entropy for a 1-1 or a guy called DJ Fuji http://www.taoofdjfuji.com/ if you can get past the hair. Both are top quality and you really can't go wrong with either of them.

[Lothario]

@ Oldnemesis : Do not spend 3 Grand on a boot camp and you are right on money that you want a good teacher to look at your game from outside and critique you.

I also believe one doesn't need a bootcamp to get better in the beginning stage of game , There is no short cut to hard work and approach approach approach in the beginning and once one gets to an intermediate level game, have some experienced player critique you, It wouldn't help some one as much at the begining level.

What I said above is my personal experience as I had the same conundrum about a year ago and decided to not do the boot Camp but after careful research decided to pay some one to critique my game........

Yes I had the Opportunity to do a Day and Night game workshop with Roosh both one on one and it was 1/3rd the price you mentioned and possibly 100 times better, I did over 29 approaches in 12 hours and with in the first 2 approaches Roosh piointed out what I was doing wrong. He was listening through a hidden microphone on my shirt and writing in his little diary what to tell me later.

About 2 days later he sent me a detailed report on every approach what I did right and what I did wrong, Things I needed to fix in order of preference and boy was he on Money.

Fast forward 2 months and after working on rooshs report and girls were approaching me , There was a significant change in the level of my Game.

Gods of Game were happy with me (I might have done a thing or two right in my lifetime) and had the Opportunity to roll with MiXX, Totally different style of game and yes Winging with MiXX was like a true hardcore bootcamp, no excuses, no mistakes twice , constant Lecturing, he eats, breathes and lives Game and is very passionate about it that rubs off on to aspiring players like myself.

I consider myself very lucky to have Roosh and MiXX critique my game and I will suggest like some one else did to hook up with some experienced players on the forum Like Roosh (if he ever offers day game workshop again) , MiXX, G-Man, Hydrogonian, Giovanny, Tuthmosis and many more and I will humbly add myself although I am nowhere in the league of above mentioned players but may be we can help each others game........

Any questions feel free to PM me.

Game on Brother..........

[zanetti]

i did one with RSD back in the day; not a bootcamp but was a combo of seminar plus some evening live stuff; ratio was 2 instructors for 6 guys or so.

i thought the experience was ok. not terrible, and not great. if you are interested in doing smth like this and you can easily afford it, why not; if it's expensive for you, i wouldn't do it.

what actually helped me alot was the realisation that most of the other guys were in way worse shape than i was; what a bunch of geeks

[Aliblahba]

I personally would be interested in a Roosh workshop before setting off on my next adventure. It never hurts to have a game check.

[dk902]

I did a Roosh Day game workshop last year, costing in the hundreds of dollars region as opposed to a few grand. My night game was reasonable but I had no system for day game and wanted to learn one.

At the time I felt my learning and to some extent with game had stalled out and I needed a catalyst to help kickstart it. I had been reading Roosh's blog for a while and the thing for me that is most apparent in his writing is his brutal honesty. I respect this and felt I could trust him, not just with my cash but to get the results I wanted. Someone may want to correct me but nothing seems worse to me than getting a bunch of poor guys to sit in a room and get dictated to for 3 hours then 'go out in the field' to get launched blindly to a completely alien social situation. Then come Sunday they'll all be 'players.' All the while paying a few grand for the privelige.

Roosh broke every single interaction down for me, where I went wrong, what to improve an tailored it to my knowledge and ability. Not only that but the it was also great to ask him so many game-related questions. I believe in many fields to ultimately reach the pinnacle and become successful you need a teacher or mentor who's been to the top. I've never had that with game so meeting Roosh was a great experience and real eye opener. I think it was definitely what I needed. To have someone coach you and see the weakpoints of your skill, helping you to practice and hone it is the norm when learning to play guitar, learning to drive or to swim, so why not game as well?

I was never terrible with game, but I needed that workshop to take me to the next level. I honestly believe taking that workshop has done so much to transform my game and outlook in general it has made me so much more successful. This was not an overnight change, the biggest thing it taught me that in order to be successful I had to work my fucking balls off to get it. And my success was directly proportionate to the effort I put in. I now treat my game like a skill that I practice and hone at every opportunity, there is still a lot of polishing and learning to ever achieve the level of Roosh, G-Manifesto or Mixx for example. However I am now at the stage where I go out at night and expect to get laid.

[rockdaspot]

Roosh: nah, I'm not Damien or a coach. The guys that become superheros took like a year of hard work after the course to get that good to give it some context. No one should expect to get that good just from a bootcamp BUT it was the spark that got them started on their path.

[Roosh]

Guys ask me why I don't always teach workshops and I'll be honest...

It's hard work.

It takes a lot of energy to do workshops, which goes against my low-energy nature. Before every workshop I had to mentally psych myself up to do them. I even had a routine to do so.

[worldwidetraveler]

(08-21-2011 03:29 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Guys ask me why I don't always teach workshops and I'll be honest...

It's hard work.

It takes a lot of energy to do workshops, which goes against my low-energy nature. Before every workshop I had to mentally psych myself up to do them. I even had a routine to do so.

Roosh, you should be charging more money. Detail reports on each approach? Wow, I think you will still be over delivering even if you charged more.

[oldnemesis]

Thank everyone for the feedback.

Several guys raised the valid question "why even consider bootcamp". In every activity I'm currently practicing (English, gym, skydiving) I have several years of experience and consider my skills in those above average. However every time there was occasional roadblock I needed the feedback to get through, and in most cases it took some minor changes which I didn't even notice. Sure, it is possible to get through via a lot of trial-and-error, but for me time is worth more than money. Even if it doesn't help, a feedback from someone who has prior experience with students is usually valuable as most people tend to make similar mistakes. At the same moment it is much less useful to find out someone local who "has game" but cannot explain things. This is why I pointed out the difference between a personal trainer and gym meathead - the gym meathead knows things which work for him. However those things may not work for me - and even if they do, they may not be the best for me. And this is where personal trainer's education and experience with prior students helps, and makes him different.

This is why I asked if someone has personal experience with PUA bootcamps, either direct or from someone he trusts. And while I appreciate even generic feedback i.e. "not worth money", it is the explanation which matters. There is significant difference between "I have a better way to spend 3k" and "it wasn't as useful for me as I expected it to be for such amount of money". First one is essentially useless, the second one is useful.

Now for those who've been to, I've got a few questions:

- What was the student/instructor rate in the field? Theory part I don't really care about, field experience is more important. From what I have seen, minimum seems to be 3:1 which doesn't sound right. This is not wind tunnel or wakeboarding.
- Who was your instructor, did you even have an assigned instructor? What type he was, harshl/honest or calming/assuring? The last type doesn't work for me at all.
- With the experience you know now, would you rate the level of provided information, was it mostly at the beginner level or higher?
- Who were other students? Dorky types who looked like they never got laid, or people who wanted to improve? This is very valuable as it helps to consider the published feedback carefully. If a dude never kissed a girl in a bar before and it happened he'd post spectacular review, which would be essentially meaningless for me. However if there are people who wanted to improve from their (already above basic) level, it is valuable experience alone to meet them, as you can share the information about roadblocks you overcame, and how you came there.
- Was it better experience than just reading a book? If yes, are you kind of guy who better leans from videos/presentations than from book (personally I hate videos and always prefer books).

@rockdaspot, "School Of Attraction" seems interesting, but ten weeks seem overkill. And would it be fair to say that you started from a very basic level?

[Samseau]

Quote:

- Who were other students? Dorky types who looked like they never got laid, or people who wanted to improve? This is very valuable as it helps to consider the published feedback carefully. If a dude never kissed a girl in a bar before and it happened he'd post spectacular review, which would be essentially meaningless for me. However if there are people who wanted to improve from their (already above basic) level, it is valuable experience alone to meet them, as you can share the information about roadblocks you overcame, and how you came there.

Oh yeah, I forgot that part. First of all, he attended a Lovesystem's bootcamp. Student to instruction ration was 2 to 1, but when you consider that only one or two of the instructors are really good at getting laid, you realize that the other instructors are just filler.

Second, he said most of the guys attending the bootcamp were from out of town, mostly loveless betas, and even small things like kissing a girl in the bar completely excited them. He never spoke with any of them again after the bootcamp was over.

Really. 1-on-1 is easily the only way to go.

[DonovanVC]

i did one with Ratisse over a year ago for 2 nights.

it was worth it and got my game jump-started after it had decayed from 2 years in law school.

[oldnemesis]

Got some replies from the bootcamps I've sent my requests, and so far it looks like Samseau is absolutely right.
For all of them the essence is that "a typical student has 'I want you, I need you' mentality, and we change it to 'I want you, but I don't need you".
And when you ask them what if mine is "I'm sure I don't need you, and I'm not even sure I want you", this is something they have no experience with.

[rockdaspot]

I think you'd benefit most from having a coach rather than attending a bootcamp

A coach would be much more specific to your needs and level.

Hopefully there is someone in your city who can coach you, otherwise I know a few guys that offer coaching online via Skype.

One guy I can recommend is Artisan of Attractive Man. I bought his texting ebook and did a free coaching call with him as a bonus and he was excellent. He will also fly out and spend time coaching with you for a very reasonable price. Please note that I have no affliction or relationship with this guy.